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  1. #76
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    How good a look do you have to have for the first ball after you've hit a provisional?

  2. #77
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    You are right, you can play the provisional until it is closer.





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  3. #78
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    Petey...

    b. When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play

    The player may play a provisional ball until he reaches the place where the original ball is likely to be. If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is*lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play * under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaWatty View Post
    How good a look do you have to have for the first ball after you've hit a provisional?
    You don't have to search at all if you like.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteyD View Post
    You are right, you can play the provisional until it is closer.
    Yep this is how I always understood the rule also.
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  5. #80
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    Thanks MT. That's why I told my playing partner the other day. He can declare the first ball lost at any time.

  6. #81
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    Meh, I know the rule, was just pointing out that not everyone does.





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  7. #82
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    Oh. I thought you meant you couldn't find it.

  8. #83
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    Easy to do.





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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteyD View Post
    Had a good one on Saturday. Bloke believed an unplayable in a bunker could be dropped outside it (as per normal unplayable rules). Considering he DQ'd himself later it didn't matter, but I hope he does look up the rule to check now.

    The other one is playing a provisional ball (second and subsequent shots) until it is closer to the hole than the original is likely to be. I am not sure of this is an RandA rule and not USGA or if it was changed sometime recently, as you can find advice that says the second stroke on a Provisional makes it in play.
    He can take the unplayable and play from where he last played a stroke from. That could have been his only option.

    Quote Originally Posted by hocko View Post
    I had always thought you could play the second ball until it is closer to the hole than the original balls suspected position.
    Is this now not the case?
    Also many people are not aware that a player cannot declare a ball lost, they just hit a second ball and complete the hole with that one, or on a non stroke round, wipw the hole.
    Exactly. It's not actually where the original ball is found, it is where it is "likely to be", as Hocko says.

    MEga, regarding the original ball being lost, if you play a provisional and decide not to look, I could be a dick and look for it. If I find it inside of 5 minutes and you haven't played a shot from past where the original lay, you would have to play it. I had it happen in a match play.




  10. #85
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    So a ball cannot be declared lost until the 5 minutes is up. It is out of play once you play the provisional in front of where it is expected to be.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Canuck View Post
    He can take the unplayable and play from where he last played a stroke from. That could have been his only option.



    Exactly. It's not actually where the original ball is found, it is where it is "likely to be", as Hocko says.

    MEga, regarding the original ball being lost, if you play a provisional and decide not to look, I could be a dick and look for it. If I find it inside of 5 minutes and you haven't played a shot from past where the original lay, you would have to play it. I had it happen in a match play.
    wow, your opponent would be a right WAnker wouldn't he.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaWatty View Post
    I'd like to see this thread used a bit more. It's good to discuss odd sort of rulings.
    Me too, although I highly recommend downloading the R&A Rules of Golf iPhone App (not sure if you can get it for Android). Very handy whilst on the battlefield!
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  13. #88
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    Got it. It's awesome!

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    I have one that I am not certain about.

    Our course has a lot of sand waste type areas in the rough and beyond. I saw a bloke a few weeks back moving sand from in behind his ball, so it ended up basically being teed up, as there was a hollow in behind the ball. Is this allowed? I would have thought it would be somewhere around the "building a stance" ruling, although to be honest I have not done much research on it.
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  15. #90
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    Off the top of my head it sounds like the 'improving your lie' one.
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    I would agree. Had to pull a guy up on this last week. Landed in a sandy spot just off the fairway. He then used his club to wipe away some stick etc which was cool, bu the did it 3 or 4 more times until he had dug a little hollow.

    Unfortunately the other guy in the group had no idea of the rules and had to pull out the trusty rule book to show them.
    long and soft

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    Just had a quick search of the R&A site and found it at Rule 13-2 "Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play"

    A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
    • the position or lie of his ball,
    • the area of his intended stance or swing,
    • his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or
    • the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
    by any of the following actions:
    • pressing a club on the ground,
    • moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
    • creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
    • removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
    • removing dew, frost or water.
    However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
    • in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
    • in fairly taking his stance,
    • in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,
    • in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or
    • on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).
    Exception: Ball in hazard – see Rule 13-4.

    PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE:
    Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.
    Definite penalty! The guy was not in my group and if I was confident that I knew the rule I would have said something to him..
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    another good one for guys if you dont have an Iphone is the pocket rules guide. I think most Pro-Shops and golf shops have them. Its got the rules and penalties for each, but doesnt have the HUGE detail of the official R&A book.
    long and soft

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  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minor_Threat View Post
    Our course has a lot of sand waste type areas in the rough and beyond. I saw a bloke a few weeks back moving sand from in behind his ball,
    From the Definitions: "Sand is a loose impediment on the putting green, but not elsewhere"
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    Toronto had a 2 local rules I have never come across before on the weekend:

    1. 30cm prefered lie in your "own" fairway
    2. If ball lies on loose rocks, the ball can be lifted, rocks swept away and ball replaced. If rocks are embedded, ball can be dropped at nearest point, no closer to the hole.
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  21. #96
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    I've come across the preferred lie on the fairway before. Rockingham plays that quite a bit
    long and soft

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  22. #97
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    Obviously you have to read the local rules at the pro shop or on the card....Melville has a policy that there are no cart paths on the golf course.
    I have had to hit off concrete in previous games.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minor_Threat View Post
    Toronto had a 2 local rules I have never come across before on the weekend:
    It is not compulsory for a club to use the example local rules listed in the Rules Appendix. However it is recommended that they do, because it removes any ambiguity which is common when a club makes up its own local rules - followed sub-sequentially by the players.

    My club seems to have some local rules that are not on the local rule board "its always been the rule here"
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmsy View Post
    wow, your opponent would be a right WAnker wouldn't he.
    I wasn't happy. Deep kack, left side of 9 at KB. We had both hit in, so I was quite happy to go 3 off the tee and play it out.


    Quote Originally Posted by MegaWatty View Post
    So a ball cannot be declared lost until the 5 minutes is up. It is out of play once you play the provisional in front of where it is expected to be.
    Technically, yes. You can instantly take it out of play by dropping, not declaring a provisional, and playing another shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by rubin1909 View Post
    I would agree. Had to pull a guy up on this last week. Landed in a sandy spot just off the fairway. He then used his club to wipe away some stick etc which was cool, bu the did it 3 or 4 more times until he had dug a little hollow.

    Unfortunately the other guy in the group had no idea of the rules and had to pull out the trusty rule book to show them.
    Give me the initials of the member. I've had a chat with one guy there before about a similar thing.




  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Canuck View Post
    MEga, regarding the original ball being lost, if you play a provisional and decide not to look, I could be a dick and look for it. If I find it inside of 5 minutes and you haven't played a shot from past where the original lay, you would have to play it. I had it happen in a match play.
    the interesting aside from that scenario is if Dick finds a ball, then the player is obligated to identify whether it is his or not. He cant brush it off with a 'forget about it'.

    Hey there is an idea, walk in there with half a dozen old balls and leave them lying around. Then point them out to him one by one - very slowly.
    --
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