The knockdown wedge

[TheNuclearOne]

So i've read 1000 books on the topic but have never had any success knocking this sucker down while still hitting reasonably firm. I always seem to find height on the shot even with the ball back and if i put it too far back anything can happen. I'm a bit of a flipper so that doesn't help but you'd think i could knock one down just a little.

Second last hole today, about 75 meters to hit. Overhanging branches to go under that many a good player would have navigated. I could have hit a mini draw type shot with the PW (or went a lower loft) but it would have run thru the firmish green into a lake behind. What i needed was the firm low wedge that still spins. I failed and got up into the overhang. A couple of single figure mates would have made my task look routine.


Any expert tips, hints or drills for this shot?

[TheNuclearOne]

I'm a bit of a sweeper even with irons so maybe i need to spend 30 mins just banging right down on the ball steeply.

[henno]

I actually hit one of these today, successfully! It was wind, not branches that was the issue (13th at Pacific - had to keep it under the tree line and out of the wind) but even my playing partners giggled at my "punch". I am not going to profess some magic understanding of the shot, but all I did is put the ball back in my stance and "knock it on the head". I actually worked on this shot while playing at Indro and hitting 8-iron off the back foot (or even just behind the back foot) for a low spinner that will travel lower than the trees but hold the fairway. When you're in the trees as often as me it's no wonder I'm good at it. Unfortunately I'm hopeless with anything over an 8-iron with this technique though.

[TheNuclearOne]

Cheers Henno. I was thinking i needed to knock the sucker on the head and i reckon you may have nailed it. I swing very flat and around and maybe my natural swing goes against the shot. Straighter up straighter down maybe.

[henno]

Swings don't come much flatter than mine. I tend to abbreviate my backswing on shorter irons though so that might be the only reason I get away with it, and why I can't hit a low "punch" shot with any of the longer clubs.

[TheNuclearOne]

Interesting. Mine is already shorter than you would believe and i'd maybe give you a run for flatness lol. Sounds like we are fighting the same problem with low shots. At least you've banged a couple out.

[razaar]

An 8-iron can be substituted for a wedge and it stops just as quick. I play this shot alot from 80 metres out into a head wind or cross wind. Why would you want to knock down a wedge when you can play a half/three-quaters 9 or 8-iron.

[TheNuclearOne]

There is no way on mother earth i was stopping an 8 iron Raz. I heavily disagree it (eight) stops just as quick as the shot i am talking about with a wedge. Norman used to back these shots clean off a green, he would not have with an 8 iron.

[virge666]

I actually hit one of these today, successfully! It was wind, not branches that was the issue (13th at Pacific - had to keep it under the tree line and out of the wind) but even my playing partners giggled at my "punch". I am not going to profess some magic understanding of the shot, but all I did is put the ball back in my stance and "knock it on the head". I actually worked on this shot while playing at Indro and hitting 8-iron off the back foot (or even just behind the back foot) for a low spinner that will travel lower than the trees but hold the fairway. When you're in the trees as often as me it's no wonder I'm good at it. Unfortunately I'm hopeless with anything over an 8-iron with this technique though.

That is one way - not a very good way as you cannot control the spin nor the distance. You are pretty much just chopping down on it and hoping it goes where you are aiming... this is also a sensational way to shank a golf shot. You will see this shot being played (badly) with the wedges also. You get very little spin from this shot and the trajectory is awful. This is called a "pop shot" by most pro golfers.

To hit is low you need a couple of things... good gooves which is bloody important as you need grip on the golf ball. One of the better lower spin golf balls is also required. But most of all - you need to deloft the club face with control, and the only way to do this is to lead the clubhead with the hands.

Play the ball from the middle of your stance. Reduce the amount of spine angle you have and keep the right shoulder high through impact. Abbreviate the follow-through. The ball will come out flat with a tonne of spin that will stop and drop on all but the hardest greens. I have seen Peter Lonard hit this shot 130m with a 4 iron and stop the ball.

[razaar]

Well mine stop within a couple of metres and come in quite low much lower than I could ever flight a wedge. The 8-iron has enough loft to play a cut shot which travels with a hint of fade and because it is a half swing its trajectory is quite low. Of course with all these type of shots the hands need to be in front of the ball at impact and don't require a release. They are finesse shots.

[virge666]

Well mine stop within a couple of metres and come in quite low much lower than I could ever flight a wedge. The 8-iron has enough loft to play a cut shot which travels with a hint of fade and because it is a half swing its trajectory is quite low. Of course with all these type of shots the hands need to be in front of the ball at impact and don't require a release. They are finesse shots.

Your not exactly punching it though . . . your hitting a 3/4 hold-off pitch shot.

Another viable option...

[razaar]

Another shot is to hood the face of the wedge and come from well inside to out with a firm left hand and no release. This is a great shot to have for a left to right cross wind. It works really good into a head wind and flys quite straight on a boring trajectory. The feeling is one of wiping the closed face from the toe to the heel across the ball with firm wrists.

[TheNuclearOne]

Well mine stop within a couple of metres and come in quite low much lower than I could ever flight a wedge. The 8-iron has enough loft to play a cut shot which travels with a hint of fade and because it is a half swing its trajectory is quite low. Of course with all these type of shots the hands need to be in front of the ball at impact and don't require a release. They are finesse shots.

If you're ever back in Rocky Raz i will put you on the exact spot i hit this from. Number 17 hole thru the fairway on the left side. Green was redone a while back and is quite firm. I had no room to play with left because of the tree. Light rough. I really doubt you could do the job with an 8 but would love to see the attempt and have an open mind as you're a better golfer than i. I don't think Tougher would pull the shot off with an 8 but i know he would make it look easy with a wedge. I've seen him lightly draw a PW out of rough around a tree to 3 feet from 70 meters under pressure. I'd have played a bump and run but you'd probably remember the opening is about 2 meters with a bunk either side.

Appreciate the input muchly mate.

[TheNuclearOne]

Play the ball from the middle of your stance. Reduce the amount of spine angle you have and keep the right shoulder high through impact. Abbreviate the follow-through. The ball will come out flat with a tonne of spin that will stop and drop on all but the hardest greens. I have seen Peter Lonard hit this shot 130m with a 4 iron and stop the ball.

That's exactly what i needed. I don't expect a pro level shot but a nice lowish wedge with a little spin would have turned the trick.

[TheNuclearOne]

Another shot is to hood the face of the wedge and come from well inside to out with a firm left hand and no release. This is a great shot to have for a left to right cross wind. It works really good into a head wind and flys quite straight on a boring trajectory. The feeling is one of wiping the closed face from the toe to the heel across the ball with firm wrists.

Is there any wrist set in the backswing Raz? This shot may have been ok if it spins a little. The hook swing bothers me for backspin tho in this example.

[Ferrins]

If I have to curve the ball then I'll use a lower lofted iron. Under branches but still looking for check then I'll use a higher lofted iron. Also depends on the lie and wind. Finesse shots is about experimentation, knowledge and observation.
You mentioned that you thought a low marker would handle your situation with ease, so why not ask them at the end of the round what they would have done. I often ask a player how they play a certain shot.

[razaar]

Is there any wrist set in the backswing Raz? This shot may have been ok if it spins a little. The hook swing bothers me for backspin tho in this example.

This isn't a hook swing as there is no release. The takeaway is on the same path for the through swing with almost a full turn and hands between waist and shoulder. Hold the turn and swing from inside with firm wrists (through the ball position) and no roll over or the arms separating. It is best to address the ball towards the toe and wipe the clubface across the ball towards the heel. All these shots require a firm left leg/side and very little hip turn on the backswing. To learn the shot work backwards from the impact position so you can feel the best position at the top for you to get the inside shallow attack.

[virge666]

Is there any wrist set in the backswing Raz? This shot may have been ok if it spins a little. The hook swing bothers me for backspin tho in this example.

Wrist c0ck = compression
compression = height

Have you watched TV and seen the "arm" swings - that is the knockdown - very little wristcock, but still the hands lead the clubhead. I know you are thinking you need compression for the spin - but you don't, the grooves, lag and ball take care of that

[TheNuclearOne]

If I have to curve the ball then I'll use a lower lofted iron. Under branches but still looking for check then I'll use a higher lofted iron. Also depends on the lie and wind. Finesse shots is about experimentation, knowledge and observation.
You mentioned that you thought a low marker would handle your situation with ease, so why not ask them at the end of the round what they would have done. I often ask a player how they play a certain shot.

Cheers mate, i have picked his brain often. One shot he showed that has helped a bit is playing the bump onto greens with a pw or higher sometimes to get that teeny bit of purchase going in when suited.

[TheNuclearOne]

This isn't a hook swing as there is no release. The takeaway is on the same path for the through swing with almost a full turn and hands between waist and shoulder. Hold the turn and swing from inside with firm wrists (through the ball position) and no roll over or the arms separating. It is best to address the ball towards the toe and wipe the clubface across the ball towards the heel. All these shots require a firm left leg/side and very little hip turn on the backswing. To learn the shot work backwards from the impact position so you can feel the best position at the top for you to get the inside shallow attack.

Cheers you and Virge. I've got some things to try now.

[Moe Norman]

Raz plays at Keperra remember, drivers stop on those greens within a couple of metres

[TheNuclearOne]

LOL

[markTHEblake]

I hit the knockdown pitch shot that spins like crazy often, even chipping. I got no idea how to do it though, it just happens. However when i do hit them I can really feel the ball rolling up or staying on the clubface longer.

[razaar]

Raz plays at Keperra remember, drivers stop on those greens within a couple of metres

Wantima mate, not Keperra, and the greens are slick. Ask dave daisey we played together there yesterday in the Sat. comp. But you are right about Keperra's greens Moe.

[TheNuclearOne]

I hit the knockdown pitch shot that spins like crazy often, even chipping. I got no idea how to do it though, it just happens. However when i do hit them I can really feel the ball rolling up or staying on the clubface longer.

Half ya luck.