Martinez19696

[virge666]

Virge
I'm going to Sydney Monday...meet with Andy for 3 days.

You poor bastard... do you want me to bring the pain killers and alcohol ?

[virge666]

Marton starting to work out the "MASS" part of your method - and aiming the mass.

Very powerful concept though still not sure how to get to that point... I can do it on the range but it feels very narrow on hte backswing.

[martinez]

We'll chat this week about it.

[virge666]

We'll chat this week about it.

Thanks mate. See you Monday or Tuesday. Andy and I spent an hour on it this evening.

[Daves]

Interesting vids on SITD of the 3D analysis of Elk's swing. The move is definitely there in the mechanics, though the naked eye can't see it. There is a real degree of trust involved in getting there it seems. You have to trust the move and your swing will get the club (club face) back to where it needs to be at impact.

[markTHEblake]

Daves, which was the sensor(or body part) that showed moving towards the target about halfway on the backswing, where Elk said 'yeah, going the other way". I think it was the first or one of the earlier graphs they looked at.

I thought it was pelvis, but then that was mentioned later.

[Daves]

Daves, which was the sensor(or body part) that showed moving towards the target about halfway on the backswing, where Elk said 'yeah, going the other way". I think it was the first or one of the earlier graphs they looked at.

I thought it was pelvis, but then that was mentioned later.

I would have to watch the vid again to be sure, my recollection was there was mention of right elbow and hips/pelvis.

[Daves]

Daves, which was the sensor(or body part) that showed moving towards the target about halfway on the backswing, where Elk said 'yeah, going the other way". I think it was the first or one of the earlier graphs they looked at.

I thought it was pelvis, but then that was mentioned later.

I would have to watch the vid again to be sure, my recollection was there was mention of right elbow and hips/pelvis.

They were referring to the trailing elbow in Vid 5, but I think the bit your are referring to is in Vid 4. I will have a look again later. Seems Elk has big lag in the trailing elbow, that is then very fast through impact. Combined with massive wrist supination outside the normal, seems to be what is creating the power. The bit showing that the wound up wrists/hands are actually in impact position was also enlightening.

[virge666]

They were referring to the trailing elbow in Vid 5, but I think the bit your are referring to is in Vid 4. I will have a look again later. Seems Elk has big lag in the trailing elbow, that is then very fast through impact. Combined with massive wrist supination outside the normal, seems to be what is creating the power. The bit showing that the wound up wrists/hands are actually in impact position was also enlightening.

I learnt a lot more from his swing by looking at his left arm more than his right. And That sit down move he has done those vids on YouTube.

Has anyone seen a vid on horizontalisation as he calls it. I forgot to ask him earlier in the week.

[razaar]

They were referring to the trailing elbow in Vid 5, but I think the bit your are referring to is in Vid 4. I will have a look again later. Seems Elk has big lag in the trailing elbow, that is then very fast through impact. Combined with massive wrist supination outside the normal, seems to be what is creating the power. The bit showing that the wound up wrists/hands are actually in impact position was also enlightening.

The reverse rotation promotes locked wrists at the top of the backswing. The left wrist is flat with the right hand locking the wrist. This is what loads the shaft. If the wrist can be moved around at the top it will give at the change of direction. Power is stored when the shaft loads not when the wrist gives..

[virge666]

The reverse rotation promotes locked wrists at the top of the backswing. The left wrist is flat with the right hand locking the wrist. This is what loads the shaft. If the wrist can be moved around at the top it will give at the change of direction. Power is stored when the shaft loads not when the wrist gives..

That makes a shitload of sense to me !!

Also explains what he was saying about aiming the mass.

Happy days

[razaar]

No. Aiming the mass means setting the muscles at trhe point you want to deliver the clubhead. For an iron shot say a 6-iron, you want to deliver the clubhead to a point 25 mm infront of the golf ball. The set of the arms, hips and legs are aimed at this point. The shoulders are square to the target. For a driver, the aim point is at a point low on the inside of the ball. Happy days now.

[virge666]

No. Aiming the mass means setting the muscles at trhe point you want to deliver the clubhead. For an iron shot say a 6-iron, you want to deliver the clubhead to a point 25 mm infront of the golf ball. The set of the arms, hips and legs are aimed at this point. The shoulders are square to the target. For a driver, the aim point is at a point low on the inside of the ball. Happy days now.

Nope,

That is the TGM aiming point which I think is 6e or 6d in the little yellow book.

Aiming the mass is way cooler than that... It is aiming the hands at the club head. See if you can find one of Martins vids on it.

[idgolfguy]

Understand aiming point but the ' aiming the mass' concept is still a challenge. The main video refers to it but will have to now trawl through the other videos.

[virge666]

Understand aiming point but the ' aiming the mass' concept is still a challenge. The main video refers to it but will have to now trawl through the other videos.

Check your pm

[razaar]

Nope,

That is the TGM aiming point which I think is 6e or 6d in the little yellow book.

Aiming the mass is way cooler than that... It is aiming the hands at the club head. See if you can find one of Martins vids on it.

Haven't got the TGM book and know nothing about TGM. But I have got the Mitchell book which is what buggerlugs is teaching.

[virge666]

Haven't got the TGM book and know nothing about TGM. But I have got the Mitchell book which is what buggerlugs is teaching.

Cool beans . . .

Do me a favour and post me the setup position out of Mitchell's book.

How to get into the setup position and how the body is balanced.

Cheers Ray

[razaar]

I'll do even better I will explain it. It took me some time and lots of thought to work it out and I had the whole book to work with. Mitchell said that he had great difficulty using his swing with the introduction of steel shafts. Which is reasonable because he could feel the wooden shaft loading but couldn't achieve the same feel with steel shafts. This is neither here nor there in the context of his swing concept. I just mentioned it in case you have a similar issue.

The set up at address has the arms, the hips and the legs looking at the aim point. The shoulders are square to the ball target path because it is the shoulders that have the greatest impact on clubhead path. The backswing is all about resistance and keeping the muscle set aimed at the aim point while turning the shoulders. This is impossible to actually achieve but it does give you an idea of the resistance Mitchell felt during his backswing. The arms still turning towards the ball, the right knee & hip trying to stay looking at the ball. The left knee & foot trying to hold. The right elbow trying to look at the ball. There is no possibility of anything getting behind in this swing. Mitchell was still able to achieve a full shoulher turn.

The downswing is a release of all this potential energy from the ground up. Michell states that he relaxed into the downswing and felt like his back was still facing the target at impact. You can draw your own conclusions to what he did to achieve this.

[virge666]

Thanks Ray. Nicely described !!

[Daves]

Virge/Ray,

would be interested in your thoughts on the negative shaft lean set up.

[BroKar]

Virge/Ray,

would be interested in your thoughts on the negative shaft lean set up.

Seeing that clip explain the whole takeaway for me now

[Daves]

Seeing that clip explain the whole takeaway for me now

For those that have not seen it, this is the clip that Brokar is referring to. There are more on the subject on Youtube under atomicgolf1, plus some reviews of the Nunchuk shaft with Gary Tozer;

[razaar]

These are Abe Mitchell's words on the takeaway - "There must be no rolling of the wrist and forearm from left to right either in the waggle or at the beginning of the swing. This is vital. On the other hand an effort should be made to shut the club-face by a slight roll from right to left. This applies to both wrists. Let us make the action clearer. Suppose you are sweeping grass by left to right sweeps with a broom held like a golf club, with the right hand below the left. You would press down and slightly roll the wrists from right to left as you made the sweeps fromleft to right. That is precisely the initial wrist action for the golf swing. It tends to keep the left elbow in, it prevents the right hand from lifting, and it gets the right foot working from the very beginning. At the top of the swing the back of the left hand would face a spectator at the tee box and not the players head or the hole. When the hands have come to the top, the wrists should be unable to drop. Here, then, is a guiding tip. If at the top of the swing you can drop your wrists at will, then the wind-up has been wrong - the wrists should be locked."

Did Martin mention any of this in his vids?

[BroKar]

I understand alot more by watching the above clip, the movie had alot of people doing lleyton Hewitt style moves with there hands without really explaining how to get there, that was the problem for me

[razaar]

Virge/Ray,

would be interested in your thoughts on the negative shaft lean set up.

Dave
The issue with the negative shaft lean is there is no takeaway. It would be easy to get out of alignment without a takeaway, than it would be by starting off from the ball position and reaching this point by the method Mitchell describes. He could do the same thing with the club shaft in the horizonal position and achieve the same straight shot. There are two reasons for taking a back-swing - to start the swing action off in the alignment a player establishes at address and to remove slack for the downswing. The latter is done in the final stages of the back-swing.