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Thread: Tennis

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by KristianJ View Post
    9.88 if my memory serves me right...held it for a few years too, I think.
    9.86 apparently, held it for 3 years.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by henno View Post
    If only the cricket was worth watching. Which it isn't.
    Screw the tennis. This thing might actually be worth watching for the next half hour.



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    was that after johnston was stripped? and then he broke it a while later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daves View Post
    9.86 apparently, held it for 3 years.
    Yeah, it is. Just checked Wikipedia.

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    he beat the world record by a poofteenth?

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    don't get me wrong i loved carl lewis but he is nowhere the clear and dominant champion for so long as federer who has absolutely dominated tennis in an era where the talent isnt too bad

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    Quote Originally Posted by zigwah View Post
    was that after johnston was stripped? and then he broke it a while later.
    Yeah...Johnson ran 9.79 at Seoul in 88, Lewis 9.93. Johnson tests positive and the rest is history. Lewis ran his 9.86 in a world champs in 91.

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    Quote Originally Posted by henno View Post
    Screw the tennis. This thing might actually be worth watching for the next half hour.
    Stop posting on a golf forum while you're at it.

    It is interesting to watch Murray avoid all eye contact with Federer being awarded the cup. Maybe you just have to get Roger at the right time to win a slam (if you're not Nadal).

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    I think Federer is the most dominant mens tennis player ever.
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    I think that in the era that Federer has been around, he hasn't been challenged at all. You can’t say Nadal has been a threat because he hasn’t. You look back and see for example the Sampras and Agassi rivalry and you think that maybe if either wasn't there how many Grandslams either could have won if it wasn't for a real serious challenger. Maybe Sampras could have won 20 Grandslams and therefore you could have said he was the best player of all time. I see Federer's forehand and I would not teach that to any kid, were as his backhand is technically correct. I look at Sampras and see how technically good his forehand, Backhand, Serve and Volley is I can not say the same for Federer. I think by listing Federer as “one of” the grestest players of tennis I can agree with that, but saying he “is” the best of all time, no I don’t think so.
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    The flip side is to wonder whether Federer has simply been that good so as nobody could effectively "rival" him Tomo.

    Sampras' record at the French was abysmal compared to Fed's, due in no small part to Federer having a much much better game off the ground. Only Nadal has been able to stifle Federer at the French, which says a lot for his all round genius and completeness.

    Federer's forehand is probably the greatest the game has ever seen, and his backhand is of a much much higher level than Pete's.

    Pete possibly has the greatest serve ever, not so much due to simple speed and ace stats but due to the fact it was so well disguised, hit so close to the lines on a consistent basis, and was invariably dependable under the greatest pressures. Federer's is a fine serve too tho a little behind Pete's.

    Sampras would have the better net game, but Federer's is quite good and not needed near as much as Sampras needed his due to his great ground game.

    Federer is now regarded by the majority to be the best ever.

    My only criticism is his H2H record vs Nadal, but 9 of Nadals 13 wins are on clay. Sampras was hardly going to beat the good claycourters, let alone the best. Still a thorn tho, as Nadal often loses on grass and hardcourt before getting a shot at Fed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNuclearOne View Post
    Federer's forehand is probably the greatest the game has ever seen, and his backhand is of a much much higher level than Pete's.
    Fed's forehand gets away from him a bit, his elbow gets to wide and alittle high not right. Federer has to be on song for his forehand to work to big of a wind up, thats why he either hits winers or sprays his forehand. I watch Murry last night keep hitting to his backhand which is his strength. If you look a Sampras's forehand he keeps it all tight and compact like lendl's, like Agassi. I would rate Agassi forehand over federer's

    Backhands are pretty close if you look.

    For federer having a one handed backhand he look like he struggles to volley as well.

    No one can volley in tennis at the moment, its an art lost with the baseline bashers.

    Thought I just might add as well that I have never played tennis, owned a tennis court, never had a parent that was a coach, I have never been to coaching seminars, I have never been coached by a Tennis Australia President and also never played with the Queensland Tennis Squad.
    Last edited by Tomson; 1st February 2010 at 02:17 PM.
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    if feds forehand is poor, then god help everyone!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpac View Post
    if feds forehand is poor, then god help everyone!
    Its not poor, but its not the best forehand the game has ever seen.
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    Personally, I don't rate a player on whether they are the best or not on the dynamics of their swing.

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    I personally rate a player on there swing dynamics.
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    I think it's the science of their swing and centrifugal force of their ability to string together a paragraph that is easy to read yet informative.






  18. #68
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    Llendl was the best, and he had the personality to match!!

    I loved sampras's forehand.

    Nah, this guy is the best ever.
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    If Fed didn't hit his forehand as described by Tomson I doubt he would be able to create some of those ridiculous angles with his off forehand (which I love). I'd take his over say Tsonga's (mechanics wise) all day every day.

    Backhands... I enjoyed watching Agassi's no backswing punch where he would just step in, take it super early and high on the return. Not pretty but super effective in its day. Technically speaking I'd take Henin's (as many would).

    Volleying... what's that? Is that the weird looking thing that Rafter used to do?
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomson View Post
    Fed's forehand gets away from him a bit, his elbow gets to wide and alittle high not right. Federer has to be on song for his forehand to work to big of a wind up, thats why he either hits winers or sprays his forehand.
    Federer's forehand wanders a little here and there during a match but his winners vs errors off that wing over the course of a full match and tourney is ridiculous. It's sheer dominance over the full course easily covers the odd shank and then some. It's an incredible weapon.

    When Borg came on with the big looping backswings he was thought to be doing it all wrong. Later we had Lendl (my fave forehand ever) with the big loop and high elbow and he too was questioned. Turned into the best forehand ever during time.

    I watch Murry last night keep hitting to his backhand which is his strength.
    Stats have long shown Federer's forehand is well and truly his more effective wing. His superb backhand seduces many into thinking other, but it's the forehand wing that kills you.

    If you look a Sampras's forehand he keeps it all tight and compact like lendl's, like Agassi. I would rate Agassi forehand over federer's
    Lendl's wasn't very compact. Agassi's yes for sure, and Pete's to an extent. I'd take Federer's forehand over Agassi's for sure, and Lendl too had a better forehand than Andre. Agassi doesn't do near as much damage as Fed.

    Tho Sampras has the tighter motion Federer's forehand is much better.

    Backhands are pretty close if you look.
    Federer's backhand and forehand are much better. This is why Sampras was abysmal on clay compared to other surfaces. He couldn't stay in rallies. His entire game and success was built on the BIG bang, he was very aggressive from the back and looked to keep points short by going for big shots off the forehand and finding his way to net other times.

    Pete's groundstrokes very much suited his purpose. If however you took him at his peak vs Federer and made them play from the back Federer would kill him. Under their own means it would be a fascinating series of matches.

    For federer having a one handed backhand he look like he struggles to volley as well.

    No one can volley in tennis at the moment, its an art lost with the baseline bashers.
    Federer is a good volleyer (given the game today how many can you name as better in singles?) but not great like a Sampras, Mac, Rafter or Cash (more recent times.) I totally agree volleying was lost (in singles) a long time back. There are still excellent net players in the doubles, but the bigtime singles players rarely bother with it and it's popularity has therefore diminished.

    Thought I just might add as well that I have never played tennis, owned a tennis court, never had a parent that was a coach, I have never been to coaching seminars, I have never been coached by a Tennis Australia President and also never played with the Queensland Tennis Squad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhills2 View Post
    If Fed didn't hit his forehand as described by Tomson I doubt he would be able to create some of those ridiculous angles with his off forehand (which I love). I'd take his over say Tsonga's (mechanics wise) all day every day.

    Backhands... I enjoyed watching Agassi's no backswing punch where he would just step in, take it super early and high on the return. Not pretty but super effective in its day. Technically speaking I'd take Henin's (as many would).

    Volleying... what's that? Is that the weird looking thing that Rafter used to do?
    Good points. Henin's is the best womens one hander ever and many say it's the most effective ever comparatively male or female.

    Agassi's backhand was unreal, taking it earlier than anyone else by a mile with that compact rifle. Up until his day nobody ever returned big serves better. Legend has it his dad used to set up a ball machine at the net pointed into the service box and make him return ball after blistering ball.

    Connor's was another in his day, taking the big serves early and whaling away with short flat swings that sometimes had the ball near past the server before they finished their follow though.

    What do you think of Gasquet's backhand? What a one hander that is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNuclearOne View Post
    Federer's forehand wanders a little here and there during a match but his winners vs errors off that wing over the course of a full match and tourney is ridiculous. It's sheer dominance over the full course easily covers the odd shank and then some. It's an incredible weapon.
    Its wanders from time to time is an alittle understated, Its gets to far away from his body, his elbow gets alittle high and that causes it to spray its never really put under much pressure at all. When its put under pressure in a rally it folds. So not its a weapon like other peoples.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNuclearOne View Post
    When Borg came on with the big looping backswings he was thought to be doing it all wrong. Later we had Lendl (my fave forehand ever) with the big loop and high elbow and he too was questioned. Turned into the best forehand ever during time.
    Lendl had a very compact swing I don't know where you get that loop from. Its the forehand I still teach today. Lendl was way ahead of his time in every level of the game. His mental side is what let him down. If he had the likes of brad gilbert on his team I would suspect he would have been alot better.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheNuclearOne View Post
    Stats have long shown Federer's forehand is well and truly his more effective wing. His superb backhand seduces many into thinking other, but it's the forehand wing that kills you.
    You can practice something for so long and still make it work, doesn't mean its right. Look at half of the serves on tour with the cut down takeaway. Not right.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheNuclearOne View Post
    Lendl's wasn't very compact. Agassi's yes for sure, and Pete's to an extent. I'd take Federer's forehand over Agassi's for sure, and Lendl too had a better forehand than Andre. Agassi doesn't do near as much damage as Fed.
    Agassi forehand is one of the best ever, have alook at half of the players that came out of Bollettieri's they had forehands that were weapons. They had such compact tight swings and hit the ball so early.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNuclearOne View Post
    Tho Sampras has the tighter motion Federer's forehand is much better.
    Sampras still has a better forehand



    Quote Originally Posted by TheNuclearOne View Post
    Federer's backhand and forehand are much better. This is why Sampras was abysmal on clay compared to other surfaces. He couldn't stay in rallies. His entire game and success was built on the BIG bang, he was very aggressive from the back and looked to keep points short by going for big shots off the forehand and finding his way to net other times.

    Pete's groundstrokes very much suited his purpose. If however you took him at his peak vs Federer and made them play from the back Federer would kill him. Under their own means it would be a fascinating series of matches.
    Sampras was a serve and volleyer that had big groundstrokes as well. The reason he didn't do well on clay was that from the 90's to early 2000 there were a more clay court players, we only have nadal now, but in the 90's you had about 10 players that were deadly on clay not just the one we have now. So how can you compare that. Put Federer in that pool of player would be a different story. Sampras was not that bad of a clay court player just had alot more competition then federer has.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheNuclearOne View Post
    Federer is a good volleyer (given the game today how many can you name as better in singles?) but not great like a Sampras, Mac, Rafter or Cash (more recent times.) I totally agree volleying was lost (in singles) a long time back. There are still excellent net players in the doubles, but the bigtime singles players rarely bother with it and it's popularity has therefore diminished.
    Federer is an average volleyer. He had played alittle double early up to make his volleys better. The only reason it doesn't look half bad is that he catches the ball out in front.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNuclearOne View Post
    No worries, you're not doing too bad considering and obviously think about and follow the game.
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    [quote=Tomson;436908]
    Its wanders from time to time is an alittle understated, Its gets to far away from his body, his elbow gets alittle high and that causes it to spray its never really put under much pressure at all. When its put under pressure in a rally it folds. So not its a weapon like other peoples.
    Completely disagree, but i think we can agree to disagree on this one.

    Lendl had a very compact swing I don't know where you get that loop from. Its the forehand I still teach today. Lendl was way ahead of his time in every level of the game. His mental side is what let him down. If he had the likes of brad gilbert on his team I would suspect he would have been alot better.
    Ever come across Kenny Hick or Beaky at your seminars?

    Here's a great article, and interestingly Lendl and Federer are bracketed together for style.

    I don't think Federers wind up is that much bigger than Pete's, i think it's the fact that he lets his elbow fly away from the body on the forward swing more than the others that stamps the big differences.

    Lendl's loop was considered big in his day, but yeah when compared nowadays it comes back to the pack a bit. His elbow gets higher than Sampras and Fed but the fact he keeps the racquet on the same horizontal plane as the arm with no flying raquet head (vertically) disguises it's size somewhat.

    Lendl did have enormous mental probs early career and choked a lot, but came back to dominate the game with an iron fist for some time. Gilbert would have helped enormously in the early days, and perhaps to get the monkey of his back per Wimbledon but i think his real trouble there was that he was never ever a natural volleyer no matter how hard he tried, and when the greatest pressure was at the crucial times on his net game failed him. Funny thing is if the courts were as slow and true as they are now he would have surely won this title.

    You can practice something for so long and still make it work, doesn't mean its right. Look at half of the serves on tour with the cut down takeaway. Not right.
    It's right for him tho, and no-one can argue with results. The prettiest and most technically perfect is not always the best and most effective.

    Agassi forehand is one of the best ever, have alook at half of the players that came out of Bollettieri's they had forehands that were weapons. They had such compact tight swings and hit the ball so early.
    Bollettieri was the king forehand teacher for a while wasn't he! However his first male hit, Jimmy Arias, while having a sensational forehand had a BIG loop. Later on Aaron Krickstein had another great forehand that was much more compact, but unfortunately these boys had very little else. I've got a fair bit of Nick's gear around, excellent coach.

    Sampras still has a better forehand
    We'll have to agree to disagree again, and IMO it's not even close. Look at the winner to error stats of both and the two shots shouldn't even be compared.

    Sampras was a serve and volleyer that had big groundstrokes as well. The reason he didn't do well on clay was that from the 90's to early 2000 there were a more clay court players, we only have nadal now, but in the 90's you had about 10 players that were deadly on clay not just the one we have now. So how can you compare that. Put Federer in that pool of player would be a different story. Sampras was not that bad of a clay court player just had alot more competition then federer has.
    I'm getting the impression you aren't impressed by Federer much at all.

    Pete wasn't always beaten by the top talents at the French.

    There's plenty of fine clay courters around, but Fed and Nadal are simply better. In fact i believe Nadal is the greatest clay court player ever, the modern prototype if you like. He can smash away and attack from the back while seldom missing a ball. He's beat all the players Pete had to content with and so would Federer IMO. Lendl would be the best match for both i reckon. Wilanders defensive rallying would be whalloped IMO. They are so powerful and aggressive now, while losing little in consistency.

    ederer is an average volleyer. He had played alittle double early up to make his volleys better. The only reason it doesn't look half bad is that he catches the ball out in front.
    Fair call.

    Maybe we should have a game one day. Maybe I could show you a few things.
    By the sound of it, i wouldn't even give you an aerobic workout. I was only ITN 4 verging on 3.5 when playing a bit. I had the dinstinct thrill of being wiped off the court by Kochy and an aging Houston a handful or years back when we played in local tournies. By comparison you'd probably hammer them
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    I'm glad you agree with me now. Thank you.
    Last edited by Tomson; 2nd February 2010 at 08:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomson View Post
    I'm glad you agree with me now. Thank you.
    Can't believe i forgot that article link

    http://rjamesyork.blogspot.com/2009/...t-who-has.html
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