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27th November 2009 07:34 PM
#26
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Japanese Tour)
Originally Posted by
senecio
I'm with you Andy, I understand the rules are there for a reason, but golf at our level is supposed to be fun. I couldn't care where a ball is dropped if they are not in contention.
Just get it back into play and keep moving.
That's all well and good but the problem with that is where do you draw the line???
If the person was in contention to win something you would pull him up but if he wasn't you would let it go even though chances are it would take the same amount of time for each player to proceed???
"SHANKS FOR THE MEMORIES"
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27th November 2009 07:38 PM
#27
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
grandmasterb
My understanding is once you've taken a practice swing you have "started" your shot so if you then take your stance and the ball moves/falls off the tee it is classed as a shot???
Incorrect.
The ball falling off the tee is not a penalty unless you have addressed and taken a swing at the ball.
If you knock the ball off the tee while addressing the ball, it is replaced with no penalty.
Originally Posted by
grandmasterb
That's whilst addressing the ball not after addressing it though so the ruling is different again.
A little confused by this. The act of addressing continues from when you take your stance until you begin your swing. The only thing "after" addressing it is the swing.
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27th November 2009 07:39 PM
#28
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
I let my managing director get away with playing with 16 clubs in his bag a few weeks ago.
I want to go to more golf days!
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27th November 2009 07:41 PM
#29
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Japanese Tour)
Originally Posted by
Johnny Canuck
Incorrect.
The ball falling off the tee is not a penalty unless you have addressed and taken a swing at the ball.
If you knock the ball off the tee while addressing the ball, it is replaced with no penalty.
A little confused by this. The act of addressing continues from when you take your stance until you begin your swing. The only thing "after" addressing it is the swing.
Thats the problem though mate everyone's understanding is different. I've had 3 different rules quoted for the samething.
"SHANKS FOR THE MEMORIES"
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27th November 2009 07:41 PM
#30
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
Originally Posted by
grandmasterb
That's all well and good but the problem with that is where do you draw the line???
If the person was in contention to win something you would pull him up but if he wasn't you would let it go even though chances are it would take the same amount of time for each player to proceed???
If you're willing to turn an enjoyable Saturday morning round into a tense confrontation by telling a playing partner he has to go back 3m when he's going to be lucky to beat 30 points, then you play golf for different reason than I do.
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27th November 2009 07:43 PM
#31
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Japanese Tour)
Originally Posted by
senecio
If you're willing to turn an enjoyable Saturday morning round into a tense confrontation by telling a playing partner he has to go back 3m when he's going to be lucky to beat 30 points, then you play golf for different reason than I do.
I play by the rules and i dont see it as a tense confrontation unless thats what you make it. Normally i will ask them if they are aware of the ruling for future reference
"SHANKS FOR THE MEMORIES"
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27th November 2009 07:44 PM
#32
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
grandmasterb
Thats the problem though mate everyone's understanding is different. I've had 3 different rules quoted for the samething.
The rule book clearly defines things such as addressing, swing, etc..
This is one rule that is not really open to interpretation, in my opinion. The rules surrounding this are very black and white.
A few people's understanding of these appear to be a bit cloudy.
If I get a chance, I'll cut and paste some things in.
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27th November 2009 07:51 PM
#33
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Japanese Tour)
Originally Posted by
Johnny Canuck
The rule book clearly defines things such as addressing, swing, etc..
This is one rule that is not really open to interpretation, in my opinion. The rules surrounding this are very black and white.
A few people's understanding of these appear to be a bit cloudy.
If I get a chance, I'll cut and paste some things in.
That would be good JC as we are obviously reading different rules for the samething and id like to know which should apply and why would they write two???
"SHANKS FOR THE MEMORIES"
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27th November 2009 08:03 PM
#34
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Ok,
Here is what I have found GMB.
Definition- Ball in Play: A ball is "in play" as soon as the player has made a stroke on the teeing ground.
Rule 11.3 If a ball, when not in play, falls off a tee or is knocked off a tee by the player in addressing it, it may be re-teed, without penalty. However, if a stroke is made at the ball in these circumstances, whether the ball is moving or not, the stroke counts, but there is no penalty.
The big issue with it being on the tee is that it is not in play until a stroke is made at the ball. Even if you have addressed the ball, it is not yet in play, so you do not receive a penalty.
Even if you swing and miss (a "windy") the ball is now in play. If you then knock it off the tee, penalty and you must replace it.
See Decision 11.3/1 When the player made a stroke at the ball, it was in play and Rule 11-3 no longer applied. When the ball in play moved after it was addressed, the player incurred a penalty stroke and was obliged to replace the ball (Rule 18-2b).
That should clear it all up.
See you all in a few hours, I'm going home.
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27th November 2009 08:13 PM
#35
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
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27th November 2009 08:18 PM
#36
Admin Team
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
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27th November 2009 08:22 PM
#37
Senior Member
Grand Slam Winner
Originally Posted by
PeteyD
I think you can rake a bunker prior to playing your shot. As long as you do not do it to test the condition, alter your stance etc.
You can ground your rake or club if you have lost your balance. Raking any part of the bunker before your shot is leaving yourself open for a penalty.
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27th November 2009 08:45 PM
#38
Senior Member
Ozgolf Supporter
Major Winner
Originally Posted by
Ferrins
You can ground your rake or club if you have lost your balance. Raking any part of the bunker before your shot is leaving yourself open for a penalty.
Yep that was my understanding as well.
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27th November 2009 08:54 PM
#39
Senior Member
Major Winner
Originally Posted by
PeteyD
I think you can rake a bunker prior to playing your shot. As long as you do not do it to test the condition, alter your stance etc.
Correct, it's best not to do it, because you leave yourself open, but at the end of the day the rule relates to 'testing the surface' and isn't specific to raking.
Moe Norman
Ping G30 9* | Wilson Staff Tour F5 15* | Ping G20 20** | Ping i3 Blades 3-PW | Ping Tour 54.12 & 60.08| Yes! Marilyn
"I had played so poorly recently, I started thinking that maybe I should do something else. Then I saw my friends going to work every day and realised that my life wasn't so bad." -Steve Pate
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27th November 2009 09:06 PM
#40
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
grandmasterb
There is a difference between "backing into" a shot and having a branch snap and snapping them off deliberately.
is there ?
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27th November 2009 09:09 PM
#41
Senior Member
Major Winner
At a guess, it's the "fairly taking your stance" part that is all the difference.
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27th November 2009 09:09 PM
#42
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
jarro
What about a practice putting stroke ?
I've done this no penalty as such, apart from the fact you count the hit and play it where it finished !
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27th November 2009 09:11 PM
#43
Senior Member
Major Winner
What if your ball marker is still behind the ball? Any penalty (possible alignment aid?), or proceed as normal?
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27th November 2009 09:14 PM
#44
Senior Member
Ozgolf Supporter
Major Winner
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27th November 2009 09:14 PM
#45
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Chances are slim you'd be taking a practice stroke with the marker behind the ball, IMHO anyway. But I would say you keep playing from where it finishes. Couldn't quote a rule though, it's a feel thing
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27th November 2009 10:48 PM
#46
Senior Member
Multiple Major Winner
Originally Posted by
3oneday
is there ?
13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line
of Play
A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
the position or lie of his ball,
the area of his intended stance or swing,
his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the
hole, or
the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
pressing a club on the ground,
moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including
immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or
other cut turf placed in position, or
removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
in fairly taking his stance,
in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a
stroke and the stroke is made,
in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing
ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or water from the
teeing ground, or
on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing
damage (Rule 16-1).
Exception: Ball in hazard see Rule 13-4.
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27th November 2009 10:59 PM
#47
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
jarro
What about a practice putting stroke ?
Originally Posted by
3oneday
I've done this
no penalty as such, apart from the fact you count the hit and play it where it finished !
Originally Posted by
henno
What if your ball marker is still behind the ball? Any penalty (possible alignment aid?), or proceed as normal?
It's ok guys, I think I can handle this one.
If you hit the ball on a practice putting stroke, you MUST replace the ball to where it was, under a penalty of a stroke. If you don't, you are playing from the wrong place, two strokes.
As you never addressed the ball, you didn't make a stroke at it, hence the need to replace. It would be the same as if you kicked your ball in the bush, accidentally.
Three should have been DQ'ed in doing what he did. He signed an incorrect card.
The alignment aid will not come into play as you were not using it as such. You did not intend to make a stoke on the ball, so that marker would not have been used to gain any advantage.
I'm pretty sure of this. When I am done with the Ziggy threads, I'll look it up to confirm.
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27th November 2009 11:02 PM
#48
Site Owner
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
Johnny Canuck
When I am done with the Ziggy threads, I'll look it up to confirm.
What's this? Am I missing something?
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27th November 2009 11:02 PM
#49
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
henno
At a guess, it's the "fairly taking your stance" part that is all the difference.
You can take your stance, but must do it in the "least intrusive" way. If backing into a bush, a branch snaps, you should not be penalised, unless there is reasonable evidence that it was done intentionally or it was obviously not the least intrusive way into the shot.
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27th November 2009 11:06 PM
#50
Member
Touring Pro (Von Nida Tour)
I've played with a guy who thinks NPR is Nicest Point of Relief, rather than Nearest Point of Relief. I pick him up on it every time because he gives me the shits.
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