Camden Valley & Lakeside redevelopment

[jimandr]

I had a memory that there was already a thread about this subject, but I couldn't find it. Anyway, the long rumoured destruction and Camden Valley and Camden Lakeside in favour of a housing development is going ahead.

In the case of Camden Valley, it is happening very quickly. Us members received a letter last week telling us that a deal has been done with a major japanese developer, so changes were imminent.

So imminent that there is a notice in the club saying that the 12th, 13th, 16th and 17th are closing on August 31. An exhibition village of houses will be built on that land.

In the short term, my course will be reduced to 18 holes.

In the longer term, Camden Lakeside will be part of the same development. There will be a total of 27 holes across what is now 45 holes, and two clubhouses.

So, anyone who wants to play the back nine at Camden Valley has 3 weeks to do it. I'd say you've got about 12 months to enjoy the dubious pleasures of Camden Lakeside in its current form.

[ParMaster]

WTF?

Didn't they even do a vote so that members could object?

Is there any benefit to you and the members?

[Scottt]

In the longer term, Camden Lakeside will be part of the same development. There will be a total of 27 holes across what is now 45 holes, and two clubhouses.

So only nine holes of Valley will remain, along with the reconfigured Lakeside 18 (which from memory will be par 67 or something)?

[Minor_Threat]

Thats crazy.

I played there heaps in the old days!

[Grunt]

I mentioned this to some guys a few weeks back and I was laughed at. They said that is would never happen. Would love to remember who it was.

[jimandr]

I've been saying it would never happen, too. We've heard rumours for at least the last 10 years.

To answer Par Master's question, Camden Valley has a complex ownership structure. The land and assets belong to a joint venture of 13 Leagues Clubs (hence the old title Rugby Leagues Country Club). The members have certain rights in exchange for maintaining the course (ie maintenance is funded through subscriptions and green fees) and any shortfall is made up by the Clubs if necessary.

So the members by themselves have only limited voting rights and we don't really have any say in the way the 'assets' are used. At this point it is still early days, but I doubt if the members will get any tangible benefit from this.

The only real benefit I can see at the moment is that the magpie now swooping us from the trees behind the 12th green won't be a problem any more.

I seriously doubt whether the previously available plans have much accuracy. But I don't know what the accurate plans are. Our letter implies that somehow the two parcels of land will join each other through the old El Caballo Blanco land to make a total of 27 holes. You can guarantee that whatever the final outcome will be, it will be typical residential golf estate stuff, with lots of golf course frontage blocks to maximise the value of the land. The quality of the course will be running a distant second to that goal.

Whenever I can find out something, I'll pass it on.

[Grunt]

Jim, so out of 45 existing holes we are going to have 27? Cant see how they can link the 2 courses there is quite a distance between them.

[Minor_Threat]

So it will be a Cambelltown Mark II. What a waste FFS!

[cobra]

I heard of this some months back from a couple of members who are close to committee
Also heard that ultimately camden lakeside will be the clubhouse and the valley clubhouse will be a community centre for the estate
Possibly the old sports field ( which many an Australian rugby league side has trained on back in the 70s,and drunk in the clubhouse to the wild tunes of mauritous ? on friday and sat nights , they used to stay at the motel )will be refurbished .
I might add that the motel should be preserved in History as having the most mr and mrs Smiths booked in !!!!!!
They should preserve the 13th I had an ace there
interesting times for the members

What about the lakeside members what is about 2.5 to 3k P.A.
they might have to migrate to Macquarie links

[Andrew]

Cant see how they can link the 2 courses there is quite a distance between them.

The 23rd green at Camden Valley is only about 650m from the 13th green at Camden Lakeside. This way you chop the least out of the Gledswood estate.

Jim, is Peter Thomson & Ross Perret still involved as GCA's?

[jimandr]

I don't know any of the architect or design details, but my letter suggested a total of 27 holes, perhaps with a clubhouse at each end. It also suggested that the corporate membership arrangements that Lakeside has in place will continue.

I'm playing on Saturday, so I'll ask some questions then.

[Planet Golf]

Would be interested to hear more about this, as I have played Lakeside a few times and it is a terrific course on good golfing land. It would be a shame to have the Lakeside course altered as I think it is one of Thomson's greatest designs.

[cobra]

Jimandr
whats the latest
saw some big machinery around 12th hole last week

you members must be worth about a $mil each through the sale of the course land
whats the story on the finances ?
how is it all panning out ?
Is your club buying lakeside course ?
please keep us posted
cheers cobra

[Fishman Dan]

Is it housing for the kids boarding at the soon-to-be Camden Muslim High?

[cobra]

Is it housing for the kids boarding at the soon-to-be Camden Muslim High?

that got canned months ago
dead issue now
housing will be for about 130,000 people so courses will get a bit crowded in years to come
Oran park also either closed or about to close for housing

[Fishman Dan]

We've got an office down there that does Resi Valuations. Needless to say, they are struggling to keep up with demand.

[jimandr]

Jimandr
whats the latest
saw some big machinery around 12th hole last week

you members must be worth about a $mil each through the sale of the course land
whats the story on the finances ?
how is it all panning out ?
Is your club buying lakeside course ?
please keep us posted
cheers cobra

I don't have any scoops. But the course is owned by the Leagues Clubs, not the members, so the money isn't coming our way.

The back nine closed as per the schedule last Monday. So we are stuck with the 1 to 9 and 19 to 27 configuration, which has rated either 69 or 70 (par 72) in every comp so far.

Some posts were in the ground on Friday on a line about 50m in front of the 12th green, 16th green and 17th tee, obviously in preparation for a cyclone fence. So the 13th and 17th greens still exist, but there is no tee to either hole. We were advised the remaining holes of the back nine were still available for practice, which right now makes it the best practice facility in Australia. I don't know what would happen if you were to take out a shag bag of balls and hit shots into a green, though. Would they care?

The Annual General Meeting is on in October. There was nothing on the agenda about it, but if no info is forthcoming by then, I might go.

There is currently no master plan on display, and no update to what we were told earlier. None of my playing partners have known anything more, either.

[jimandr]

There is a new rumour regarding the future of golf on the Lakeside/Valley block of land. The guys I played with today are guys who often play in a regular group with the Captain on Tuesdays, so the info is likely to be pretty close to the mark.

It appears that there has been (or is going to be) a land swap between the holding company for Camden Valley and the Japanese developers (who are named Sekisui if you want to google them). They get the Camden Valley land, we get the Camden Lakeside land and we get to play golf on Lakeside. The intention is to build another nine holes on and around Lakeside.

So, if this rumour is true, for golfers in general the news is better than it was. Lakeside stays in a form similar to what it is now, with some extra holes integrated into the current set up.

I don't know what would happen to the corporate members of Lakeside.

We would take over the Lakeside clubhouse, and the current Valley clubhouse would stay as a Licensed Premises in some form to service the new estate. I guess if the developers choose to keep part of the current Camden Valley golf course they could do so.

The Annual General Meeting is taking place next Sunday. Unfortunately I cannot go, but I would imagine some news would become official after that.

[Grunt]

Sounds better than the other plan if true Jim.

[Minor_Threat]

Certianly sounds better than previous news.

Not a bad swap from Camden Valley to Lakeside!

[FlyBallDavo]

I have heard these rumours for a while. My mate at Camden Valley has suggested that I join there for a cheap price now as the membership will be transferred into a membership at The Lakeside. Not a bad deal at all!

Whether there will be a significant cost increase is the real question???

[cobra]

Report in this weeks local paper


"ONE of the world’s biggest property developers will create 1200 homes and 2100 lots at Catherine Field, under Camden’s first foreign housing project.
Japan’s Sekisui House has established offices in Castlereagh St, Sydney, as part of its expansion into Australia, including Camden.
It is also developing 2000 condominium units at Homebush Bay, as well as 800 homes and 2500 lots south-west of Brisbane.
Sekisui is calling its 207ha development along Camden Valley Way, the Camden Hills.
It comprises Camden Valley Golf Club and El Caballo Blanco as well as additional optioned land which Sekisui bought from a nine-member NSW Leagues Club trust.
The precinct also includes Gledswood, whose owners, brothers Roy and Pat Nasso, are negotiating to sell. Sekisui House is also understood to have bought Camden Lakeside Country Club.
Roy Nasso said any sale would not endanger the heritage-listed Gledswood Homestead. “Gledswood Homestead is still going to be here,” he said.
The leagues club trust sold out to Sekisui after its development partner, Babcock & Brown, was placed into receivership.
Leagues club chief Chris Bowden said: “It wasn’t a fire sale but we had obligations to our financiers and we had to find an alternative. The Japanese way is they prefer to own things themselves”.
Caveats on the land would protect Camden Valley Golf Club, Mr Bowden said.
At least 18 holes will be maintained during the estate’s construction and 27 afterwards.
The Chronicle has been told Sekisui will consolidate management of the two golf venues, with Camden Valley Golf Club taking over Lakeside within months.
Camden Lakeside was already rezoned to permit housing development and draft local environment plans were being prepared for the Gledswood and El Caballo Blanco sites, Camden Council development and health director Sue Morris said.
“It will join the (Turner Rd) growth centre precinct up to the golf club,” she said.
Camden Mayor Chris Patterson welcomed foreign investment by a reputable company.
“Part of the land has been rezoned but there’s still work to be done,” he said. “I certainly welcome the development.
“The Japanese company comes with a very good reputation. That they’re involved in our area is a good thing. It makes good economic sense.”
The Macarthur Chronicle contacted Sekisui House for comment but no one returned our calls. "

[jimandr]

Finally, some news has been passed on to the members. It is good for me, goodish for Lakeside, bad for the Camden Valley Golf Resort.

I got a letter today, advising me that the membership of Camden Valley will transfer its playing rights to the Camden Lakeside Country Club from 1 July 2010. So I'll be a member of the new club that is Camden Lakeside Country Club from 1 July, and playing comps on that course, if I decide to renew my membership. It isn't all wonderful news, as the daily comp fee will rise to $20, even though the yearly subs will only rise by CPI. Even though $20 a comp round is a bit stiff, I will be renewing. Apart from anything else, social rounds for members will still be free.

There was also a price list for members guests, visitors and a price for new members (roughly 600 more than the existing members subs, plus a joining fee). This suggests the new course will soon be accepting new members, after the books were closed last year.

The letter doesn't specifically state that Lakeside will stay as is for the long term, but it implies that the only short term change will be a review of the length of the rough to make it more conducive to play as a members course, rather than enduring 6 hour rounds while people search for lost balls all day. I wonder if I can talk them into levelling off some of P Thomson's more extreme mounding off the fairways.

The other news is that the 'front' nine of Camden Valley will close on 1 July as well. The 19-27 nine will still be open for social play ( but I'd suggest that nine is only for the desperates or beginners).

This might mean people won't reject invites to play my home course any more. If they do, I'll know it is me, not the quality of my course, that they don't like.

[ParMaster]

I never recieved one of those invites.

[Scottt]

Good news for existing members, I suppose.

I wonder if I can talk them into levelling off some of P Thomson's more extreme mounding off the fairways.

Get them to put some of that excess movement into the greens!