WA Golf Courses

[adlo]

There was only one short par 4 from memory, maybe #4?

No reward for risk.

[idgolfguy]

Lakelands is like that. I seem to hit longer than the distance markers indicate. Next time I play there, will take my scope. I have played pennants there and haven't loss yet.

I think if you don't know the course and play it as you see it -it's one those where you will have a good score. Local knowledge tends to force you into taking unnecessary chances.

[adlo]

Thinking about the course a little bit more, it is pretty average. I don't think I could see myself ever joining Lakelands.

The main thing it has going for it is conditioning. Its layout is no better than a decent public track.

[Johnny Canuck]

Played The Cut today in their comp. It was nice to play a stroke round at the course so that I could get a true feel for it, as I have played a few ambroses and socials there before.

As I stated in another thread, it is easily the most overrated course in the country.

Besides the two terrible holes I mentioned in the worst hole thread http://www.ozgolf.net/forums/showthr...577#post310577, the course simply lacks variety.

The front nine has 1 par 3, 1 par 5 and 7 par 4s.

We played off the blues as stipulated by the comp, but the tips aren't much further back.

Out of the 7 par 4s, 5 are between 291m and 339m. Depending on the hole it was either driver, wedge or 5 iron, wedge. The 9th is 370m, but with an easily cut dogleg (no trees), it too is driver, wedge. The 8th is a good, long par 4, but you can also cut a corner that you shouldn't be able to, due to no trees.

The back has 11 and 17, which are the two worst holes in WA. 10 remains a solid, good test of a par 4.
12, I love. On the water, dog leg over the dunes. The other members of my group hated it.
13, boring par 3.
14, great par 4.
15 is a joke. A 472m par 5 that doglegs right at 465m. They only had enough land to build a good par 4, but needed a par 5. Played it driver, sand wedge, pitching wedge.
16 is a funky par 3. 130m downhill. I love a good short par 3, but this one is a little "Mickey Mouse".
18 is an ok par 5 finisher, 516m, but has it's downfalls. I killed my driver and had 200m in. It is severely uphill, so you can't roll up your approach. I landed a hybrid on the front and ended up in the crap 30m long. If I chose to lay up, I would have had to hit either a lob or sand wedge for my second shot, otherwise you land on the hill and roll back down. The tee shot is almost a little unfair as well, due to the severe right to left slope of the fairway. It is a blind tee shot, but they give you a painted rock as a target line. I hit it over the rock, with a cut and still ended up on the left edge of the fairway. 1 guy lost a ball left, the other two were in the left rough, after good tee shots.

The course has a ton of blind tee shots, which is also a major complaint of a lot of people. Having played it a few times before, I do not mind this.

It is a fun course to play, but if you were to remove the scenery and the dunes that surround the fairways on some of the holes, it would compare to your local municipal course.

3 par 3s, of which I hit 9 iron, 7 iron, sand wedge. You could use some variety here and something a little longer. I love short par 3s, but I just can't get into 16.
3 par 5s. The first I hit a good drive and chose to lay up due to a ton a bunkers, good hole. The second is the dumbass dogleg and the 3rd the aforementioned finisher.
12 par 4s. The front 9 par 4s are very similar in the clubs that you will hit. The 8th is a good test, but needs something to punish you if you take the shortcut left.
The par 9 par fours are either great or horrible. 10, 12, 14 - all fantastic! 11 and 17, the worst in the country.

I also like to measure a course by the number of clubs that I hit. On the day, I never hit my 3 or 5 woods, 4iron, 6iron, or 8iron. I also hit my 9 iron once and PW twice. All up, I wasn't forced to play much of a variety of shots.

If you are going to play the course, bring your camera, take a cart and take some of the holes with a very big grain of salt. It is not worth paying the full rate, but more than worth a game if you can get on for a discounted rate.

[Johnny Canuck]

In relation to other courses:

Aldo, I agree with you about that stupid little pond on the second at Lakelands. Hate it.

The 8th at Binningup is a bit hit and miss for me. As a longer hitter, I don't mind the added distance required. Aldo will attest that I like to go right to the tips on a few holes at Binningup to get the most out of them, the 8th is one of them. I still love the hole. However, the construction and rocks that were used is a total eyesore and it is totally out of place on such a beautiful track. I was really disappointed when I saw it for the first time.

[adlo]

JC, I think a fair summary of The Cut. Some dizzying highs (and I stress some) and quite a few LOWS. Too many actually.

15 is a good example. Last time I played there both myself and MattM hit solid drives, about 200m from the green. So around 190m if you shoot over the corner. I hit 2 very solid attempts after my first approach was slightly right of target. The second attempt was perfectly struck and dead on target. MattM was convinced I would be within 10 feet. Get up to the green and after a long search both balls could not be found. We stood there for 5 minutes trying to fathom how we could not even find my second shot. Whenever I play the hole in the future, I will always be playing up to the corner and a wedge in. Stupid, stupid hole.

[Johnny Canuck]

The PW that I hit into 15 was a totally blind shot. You have to lay up to less than about 40 metres to get a good look at the green. Very poorly designed, but you can tell the design was dictated by the need for a par 5 as well as a lack of land. The tees are small and pushed right back to the course boundary, which it itself is out of place as for that part of the course you seem totally secluded from the outside world.

It could make a nice, long, uphill par 4 without the dogleg at the end.

[adlo]

JC, I understand what you are saying but I am not convinced Wilcher built the hole like that because he ran out of space. He has positioned multiple tee boxes/greens badly.... I think he is just an average course architect.

[Yossarian]

Does KB still have the special membership deals available?

[adlo]

Nope. Normal memberships will be as of July, 2009.

I am assuming they will have no nomination fee, but normal subs.

[Scottt]

JC, I understand what you are saying but I am not convinced Wilcher built the hole like that because he ran out of space... I think he is just an average course architect.

Having played Pacific Dunes and heard LOTS about The Cu*t, I had formed a simialr opinion.

[adlo]

Having played Pacific Dunes and heard LOTS about The Cu*t, I had formed a simialr opinion.

Hey, golf courses he works on can't even get his name right, how good can he be?

[Scottt]

G69. I had extremely strong feelings on Pac Dunes and have read some strong stuff from peoplI respect on The Cu*t. I have at least volunteered that my opinion thus far is based on that alone.

For the time being, I cannot add to that base. If his website didn't require a password, I could see which other courses to arrange to play when I get home.

[adlo]

So, you only need to see the works of one course to form an opinion of a blokes skills ?
Bit harsh.

69er, obviously you know the course design game pretty well, but in my opinion if I get to play one Wilcher course, I get to see 18 green complexes, 18 tee shots, 18 approaches, and 18 overly penal mickey mouse golf holes

So the course architect has every chance to get it right.

He made a few great holes at The Cut, but considering he was given the best golfing real estate an architect has ever seen in Perth, the course is pretty average.

[Bruce Dickinson]

69er, obviously you know the course design game pretty well, but in my opinion if I get to play one Wilcher course, I get to see 18 green complexes, 18 tee shots, 18 approaches, and 18 overly penal mickey mouse golf holes

So the course architect has every chance to get it right.

He made a few great holes at The Cut, but considering he was given the best golfing real estate an architect has ever seen in Perth, the course is pretty average.

It might have been great real estate but it came with probably the tightest EPA requirements at any golf course which impacted considerably on what was achievable

[adlo]

Very true Bruce.

However, use Johnny Canuck's example of 15. Just seems like a stupid par 5. EPA would not have affected that decision.

Edit: 69er, dunno. I lost 6 last time I was there. But a real hacker could lose 20, easily.

[Bruce Dickinson]

Very true Bruce.

However, use Johnny Canuck's example of 15. Just seems like a stupid par 5. EPA would not have affected that decision.

Edit: 69er, dunno. I lost 6 last time I was there. But a real hacker could lose 20, easily.

that's my point, without knowing what vegetation teh architect was allowed clear or had to retain its hard to make a judgement.

[adlo]

that's my point, without knowing what vegetation teh architect was allowed clear or had to retain its hard to make a judgement.

OK, in that case, I will cease to have an opinion on the layout.

Some of the green complexes are interesting.

[adlo]

Understood 69er, I know you guys get a million restrictions put on you.

[Johnny Canuck]

It might have been great real estate but it came with probably the tightest EPA requirements at any golf course which impacted considerably on what was achievable

The majority of the design "flaws" for lack of a better term have nothing to do with what could and couldn't be touched, see the 11 and 17th for example. Zero landing area on either hole that will leave a decent approach.

Also check out the back tees for 13. They are insanely close to the 12th green. My first time playing there, my mate pointed it out and said that they were dangerous. 30 seconds later I was calling him off his tee shot as an approach landed in the middle of our tee blocks.

Pleased to report zero balls lost last time out!

I am curious to hear 69er's take on the course, although I think he will go easy and not criticize another designer. Professional courtesy.

[Bruce Dickinson]

The majority of the design "flaws" for lack of a better term have nothing to do with what could and couldn't be touched, see the 11 and 17th for example. Zero landing area on either hole that will leave a decent approach.

Also check out the back tees for 13. They are insanely close to the 12th green. My first time playing there, my mate pointed it out and said that they were dangerous. 30 seconds later I was calling him off his tee shot as an approach landed in the middle of our tee blocks.

Pleased to report zero balls lost last time out!

I am curious to hear 69er's take on the course, although I think he will go easy and not criticize another designer. Professional courtesy.

The other issue that Wilcher had was that a number of fairways had been cleared and grassed by the previous owners who were not course designers. These cleared areas have been used in the current design and have had an impact.

I'm not saying the place is perfect, but this site wasn't a simple greenfield project.

[Johnny Canuck]

The other issue that Wilcher had was that a number of fairways had been cleared and grassed by the previous owners who were not course designers. These cleared areas have been used in the current design and have had an impact.

I'm not saying the place is perfect, but this site wasn't a simple greenfield project.

If you are building a world class golf course and you are unhappy with an area that has been grassed and cleared, you alter it accordingly. He could easily have flattened a few landing areas to make the course play a little bit better.

I shouldn't be hitting 225m 7 irons with no breeze and ending up in the same bunker I would have if I hit a 5 wood or my hybrid off the tee.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the course, but its faults are glaring.

This is coming from a guy that loves Joonadalup, so I am no stranger to what some would call "tricked up" courses.

[Bruce Dickinson]

If you are building a world class golf course and you are unhappy with an area that has been grassed and cleared, you alter it accordingly. He could easily have flattened a few landing areas to make the course play a little bit better.

I shouldn't be hitting 225m 7 irons with no breeze and ending up in the same bunker I would have if I hit a 5 wood or my hybrid off the tee.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the course, but its faults are glaring.

This is coming from a guy that loves Joonadalup, so I am no stranger to what some would call "tricked up" courses.

I'm no huge fan of the course, just thought some of the comments about Wilcher's ability were a tad unfair.

Interesting that you mention Joondalup because Trent Jones Jr worked with a site with the obvious issue of the old quarries, asa member I think he did a pretty decent job

[Johnny Canuck]

I've never commented on Wilcher's ability, I've just stated that The Cut is greatly flawed.

I love Joondalup. A good mate of mine worked there for a year and I spent many Sundays playing a minimum of 27 holes. There are not many holes that I dislike at all on the course.

I am a big fan of the Quarry 9, I just don't like 2 that much. Don't like the blind approach on the second par 3 too much, the rest is great.

The Lakes is solid, less spectacular than the other nines. I like every hole except 6.

The Dunes is a crazy 9, perhaps my favourite, but I can see how some would hate it.
1 is a great opener.
Love the elevated tee shot on 2.
3 is a bitch. I always want to hit for that little fairway on the right and always end up in the rough between the two.
4 is a great, long par 3.
5 has one of the most ridiculous greens I have ever seen. I refuse to play that hole as a three shotter just for the fun approach it demands if you go for it in two.
6 is a funky hole, which would drive some people nuts. I love the options it presents.
7 is ok, but I find it can be a little unfair with the narrow green on the left, especially to people who don't know the course. I like playing that hole from the back tees for 5.
8 sucks, boring. HOWEVER, if you go to the championship tees at the top of the hill, it is awesome!
9 is a good test, the risk/reward factor really comes in with the narrow landing area. Smart golf is to leave the driver in the bag.

[Johnny Canuck]

nice, how many more did you get?