WA Golf Courses

[Johnny Canuck]

World traveller.

I forgot you WA bogans never stray more than 420kms from home.

[simmsy]

Definitely worth a hit.

wow, you're so lucky going to play there MW!

take some photos for us will ya.

[TourFit]

I'm off to Denmark shortly. I noticed a course last time I was there. They also have scrapes. Anyone played there?

Eh, actually I lived and went to school in Denmark from age 11 thru 18 !!! Played ALL my golf in Denmark (oh, and Albany, where I did Yr 11 & 12).

It's a typical small town country course...a bit like Hartfield but with better greens

[MegaWatty]

Dickhead.

Might give it a go....if the clubs fit in the car!!!

[TourFit]

Might give it a go....if the clubs fit in the car!!!

Don't they go in first ??? (Or is that just me?)

[bergsey]

...a bit like Hartfield but with better greens

I guess with all the timber down there there would be a surplus of woodchips.....

[Veefore]

Not much to report from the meeting on course rating. I didn't write anything down so am going from my dodgy memory.

Hartfield had some problems with the tees not being able to go 5m back from the back tee or for the short course to be 15m forward of the back tee. Normally there is a 15m difference between the short and long course tees and then an allowance of 5m before and aft.

Some compromises had to be made and now the short course is only 10m shorter than the long course. Take in the 5m forward and back and the long-short course and the short-long course will be basically the same distance.

We were given a very brief rundown on the rating procedure but the people involved were very tightlipped and wouldn't give the VC any specifics.
Apparently they measure out from the tee 180yds then allow 10yds for roll. This is the "bogie" golfers distance. They then look to each side of that point and rate the hazards. Density of trees, width of the fairway, bunkers etc. For the "scratch" golfer they measure out 220yds and allow 20yds for roll and follow the same procedure. For the "bogie" golfer they allow 170yds for the second shot. If that doesn't reach the green then the "layup area" at 170yds from the tee shot is rated for hazards.

While they didn't give any specifics away, the rating for Hartfield will come in as harder than it currently is at closer to 73 than to 72. My guess previously was for the slope rating to be somewhere around the 113-120 range. It looks like I might be close or even a bit low with my guess. We won't know though for another year or more until all the courses in Australia are rated and the official ratings are published.

[bergsey]

Yep, sounds right, there is a good background on the course rating system here - http://www.usga.org/handicapping/cou...Rating-Primer/

[TourFit]

Cheers Bergsey...an interesting read. Karrinyup and Kennedy Bay will have the two highest ratings FOR SURE !

[adlo]

I think the system is average. However, if Hartfield is going to rate closer to 73, I can't imagine what courses like KB, LK, Sun City, Kwinana etc are going to rate.

[Bruce Dickinson]

I think the system is average. However, if Hartfield is going to rate closer to 73, I can't imagine what courses like KB, LK, Sun City, Kwinana etc are going to rate.

add Joondalup to that list as well

[Veefore]

From what I was told, most of the better courses will have a higher rating than at present.

I think Hartfields rating might be affected by the narrowness of the fairways and the density of the trees on some holes. By the USGA measurements some of the holes have landing areas that are only 20yds wide, no more than a US Open course. That had a significant impact on their ratings.
Hartfields rough isn't anywhere near as thick but it is still affected the rating.

I think it really comes down to the hazards that just so happen to be at the distances that are being used for the ratings.

The Vice Capt said that the 13th tee shot rated extremely high because under the rating system that group of trees on the left encroach on the fairway area so much that it is viewed as a "chute" between the trees and the bunker and the landing area for their "scratch" golfer's second shot is right where the water on the right is. Our VC is a solid 3 handicapper and said that the distances for a "scratch" golfer were nowhere near where any real scratch golfer would hit the ball.

[Veefore]

I think the system is average. However, if Hartfield is going to rate closer to 73, I can't imagine what courses like KB, LK, Sun City, Kwinana etc are going to rate.

Kwinana??????? It is long but it isn't a tough course. Wide fairways and few hazards at the landing points of most players.

I have seen a lot more Hartfield players better their handicap at Kwinana than Kwinana players better their handicaps at Hartfield.

I would expect KB to rate as one of the toughest and LK from the tips should be close as well. Sun City is like Kwinana. Long but not a tough course. In fact I am always surprised when I go there at how many good scores get put up.

[idgolfguy]

There doesn't seem to be a criteria for large undulating greens like at the Vines. How does that affect the difficulty. The fairways are wide.

[Yossarian]

The Vice Capt said that the 13th tee shot rated extremely high because under the rating system that group of trees on the left encroach on the fairway area so much that it is viewed as a "chute" between the trees and the bunker and the landing area for their "scratch" golfer's second shot is right where the water on the right is. Our VC is a solid 3 handicapper and said that the distances for a "scratch" golfer were nowhere near where any real scratch golfer would hit the ball.

Second hole at freo public, much tougher tee shot.

[Bruce Dickinson]

Kwinana??????? It is long but it isn't a tough course. Wide fairways and few hazards at the landing points of most players.

I have seen a lot more Hartfield players better their handicap at Kwinana than Kwinana players better their handicaps at Hartfield.

I would expect KB to rate as one of the toughest and LK from the tips should be close as well. Sun City is like Kwinana. Long but not a tough course. In fact I am always surprised when I go there at how many good scores get put up.

as an ex member of Hartfield and Sun City I would vote for Sun City being a tougher track than Hartfield. It's longer, has more elevation changes and some of the fairway widths aren't more than 20 metres

[Pieface]

From what I was told, most of the better courses will have a higher rating than at present.

I think Hartfields rating might be affected by the narrowness of the fairways and the density of the trees on some holes. By the USGA measurements some of the holes have landing areas that are only 20yds wide, no more than a US Open course. That had a significant impact on their ratings.
Hartfields rough isn't anywhere near as thick but it is still affected the rating.

I think it really comes down to the hazards that just so happen to be at the distances that are being used for the ratings.

The Vice Capt said that the 13th tee shot rated extremely high because under the rating system that group of trees on the left encroach on the fairway area so much that it is viewed as a "chute" between the trees and the bunker and the landing area for their "scratch" golfer's second shot is right where the water on the right is. Our VC is a solid 3 handicapper and said that the distances for a "scratch" golfer were nowhere near where any real scratch golfer would hit the ball.

It should be high for that hole, it's a stupid tee shot it needs a good tee shot, prefereably a draw, to get any kind of position and has the bunker to catch anything hung out right. It really is a "chute". Most pressure on a tee shot that I felt at Harty.

*Glad you can dominate that tee shot Yoss *

[Veefore]

The VC said that the the undulations on the greens definitely DO come into their rating formula.

[bergsey]

There doesn't seem to be a criteria for large undulating greens like at the Vines. How does that affect the difficulty. The fairways are wide.

Id, looks like both are covered... from the USGA rating primer -

Obstacle Factors

The following obstacle factors are determined for each landing zone for both the scratch and the bogey golfer:

Topography: Topography is a factor if the stance or lie in the landing zone is affected by slopes or mounds, or the shot to the green is uphill or downhill, making club selection more difficult.

Fairway: Fairway is an evaluation of the difficulty of keeping the ball in play from tee to green. Fairway ratings are based on fairway width in all landing zones, hole length, and nearby trees, hazards, and punitive rough.

Green Target: Green Target is an evaluation of the difficulty of hitting the green with the approach shot. Primary considerations are target size, length of shot, how well the green holds, and the difficulty of normal hole locations.

Recoverability and Rough: Recoverability and Rough is the evaluation of the probability of missing the tee shot landing zone and the green, and the difficulty of recovering if either, or both, is missed. The Green Target rating drives the Recoverability and Rough rating value.

Bunkers: Bunkers is the evaluation of their proximity to target areas and the difficulty of recovery from them. The Green Target rating also drives the Bunkers rating value.

Out of Bounds/ExtremeRough: OB/Extreme Rough is the evaluation of the distance from the center of the landing zone to the OB/Extreme Rough. High grass, heavy underbrush in trees, and other extreme conditions are rated in this category because a ball in such "extreme rough" is likely to be lost or virtually unplayable. Such areas may also be rated under Recoverability and Rough.

Water Hazards: Water Hazards is the evaluation of a water hazard and its distance from the landing zone or green and, in the case of a hazard crossing a hole, the problem involved in playing over the hazard. The Water Hazards rating is applied on any hole where there is a water hazard or lateral water hazard.

Trees: Trees is the evaluation of the size and density of the trees, their distance from the center of the landing zone or green, the length of the shot to that target, and the difficulty of recovery.

Green Surface: Green Surface is the evaluation of a green's difficulty from a putting standpoint. Green speed and surface contouring are the main factors. The size of the green is considered irrelevant in evaluating putting difficulty. A Stimpmeter is utilized to measure the speed of the greens based on midseason conditions.

[adlo]

Kwinana??????? It is long but it isn't a tough course. Wide fairways and few hazards at the landing points of most players.

I have seen a lot more Hartfield players better their handicap at Kwinana than Kwinana players better their handicaps at Hartfield.

I would expect KB to rate as one of the toughest and LK from the tips should be close as well. Sun City is like Kwinana. Long but not a tough course. In fact I am always surprised when I go there at how many good scores get put up.

Yes, Kwinana. Based on the USGA distances for bogey golfers, on a LONG undulating kikiyu track, I expect Kwinana to rate high. Forget hazards, the main hazard is the length.

[idgolfguy]

Id, looks like both are covered... from the USGA rating primer -

...]

What about for extremely inconsistent greens?

[TourFit]

What about for extremely inconsistent greens?

Or inconsistent putters, id ???

[Zeusgolf]

It should be high for that hole, it's a stupid tee shot it needs a good tee shot, prefereably a draw, to get any kind of position and has the bunker to catch anything hung out right. It really is a "chute". Most pressure on a tee shot that I felt at Harty.

*Glad you can dominate that tee shot Yoss *

I've hit driver out the middle on that hole a few times now towards the bunker and never been in always pulls up short...I think it just gets in you eye and makes you think you are long enough to get in. The bunker is actully some distance further down the fairway after the trees

I have never seen anyone go in that bunker even guys longer than me.......

Just hit towards that bunker or if you are long hit a 3 wood.....

[Zeusgolf]

Or inconsistent putters, id ???

Just bad greens..........

[idgolfguy]

Or inconsistent putters, id ???

Handicap takes care of that!