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virge666
23rd May 2008, 09:37 PM
As promised - here is April May'ish last year. Just after Major Pennants finished.

I have a few sets of swings - but with 3 or 4 sets I should be able to show the progression over the last year.

The main stuff has been on turn and posture.

Enjoy my pain.

The vids are here. They are around 8MB file and goes for 2-3 minutes. It is encoded using DivX (www.divx.com (http://www.divx.com/)) you may need the codec from this website

Go to the Virges Swing folder

http://www.thegolferschoice.com/ozgolf/ (http://www.thegolferschoice.com/ozgolf/)

Jarro
24th May 2008, 05:31 AM
Gee i like the look of lamby's swing there ... sooo simple 8)

Virge, you also look like your spine angle wasn't tilted away from the target enough at address ? Was this another thing that could've thrown you out of whack ?

virge666
24th May 2008, 07:45 AM
Gee i like the look of lamby's swing there ... sooo simple 8)

Virge, you also look like your spine angle wasn't tilted away from the target enough at address ? Was this another thing that could've thrown you out of whack ?

yeah - I like it too. But I love the amount of coil he gets... just sensational at the top. I prefer Pampling and Lonard through impact though.

I am with you on Spine angle - but I was hoping if I get the turn right - the spine angle would sort it self out. Also the VERY weak right hand doesn't help with the spine angle and turn issues also.

I actually added more later on - I will show that also... the swing at the Glades is just awful.

Toolish
26th May 2008, 02:35 PM
website was down for a while due to me not paying bills...sorry...it's back now!

moree golfer
26th May 2008, 03:02 PM
Why is the Lamb swing clip so short for such a large file??

virge666
26th May 2008, 04:18 PM
Why is the Lamb swing clip so short for such a large file??

No idea - I will see if I can compress it.

Jarro
26th May 2008, 04:28 PM
Got any swing vids of Pamps there Virge ?

virge666
26th May 2008, 05:19 PM
Got any swing vids of Pamps there Virge ?

What do you think ???

:lol::lol::lol:

Jarro
27th May 2008, 03:10 AM
Any recent ones ?

He seems to be swinging pretty pure at the moment

virge666
27th May 2008, 08:15 AM
Any recent ones ?

He seems to be swinging pretty pure at the moment

His swing has always been pretty awesome - what changes is his putting. The years he plays well - he is top 25 in putting. For the last 2 years he has been about 6 millionith in putting.

This weekend - he was 1st in putting. He is one of the best drivers and wedge players you have ever seen. He is about 50th in driving length and way up there in driving accuracy. His distance control with his wedges is sublime.

But like most Aussies. His putting is streaky.

Vids are on the web site.

Toolish
27th May 2008, 09:35 AM
so when does the rest of the progression get loaded up virge?

virge666
27th May 2008, 07:41 PM
so when does the rest of the progression get loaded up virge?

Getting there . . . work keeps getting in the way.

Pinglauncher
28th May 2008, 04:43 PM
I am looking forward to see how you quiet the lower body down. My weakness (apart from old age and withering flexability) is my swing gets quick and short. I then try and get power by throwing the lower body which just makes it worse, loss of power and loss of ball to the right.

virge666
13th June 2008, 09:27 PM
I am looking forward to see how you quiet the lower body down. My weakness (apart from old age and withering flexability) is my swing gets quick and short. I then try and get power by throwing the lower body which just makes it worse, loss of power and loss of ball to the right.

OK - Video player broken - ordered a new one from the USA ($130) for a Panasonic. So I can get back to this.

I have lost about 3 months worth of swings . . . so we may have to skip forward a bit. I will try and cover the missed stuff with just simple audio.

The quieting down of the lower half is pretty simple. I still have my little problem of sliding my left hip under on the backswing . . . but hey - it is a game of mishits.

Video to come over the weekend.

Toolish
5th August 2008, 12:57 PM
The weekend has come and gone a few times Virge...any plan for an update

virge666
5th August 2008, 03:26 PM
The weekend has come and gone a few times Virge...any plan for an update


Righto then - updated...

3 month old swing vs 1 month old swing. The one in Red is the old swing.

Been working on posture - a lot of work on posture to be honest. These are the results.

Down the line
http://www.thegolferschoice.com/ozgolf/Virges%20Swing/VirgeBack0408.wmv

In front
http://www.thegolferschoice.com/ozgolf/Virges%20Swing/VirgeFront0408.wmv

Enjoy

Pinglauncher
5th August 2008, 08:01 PM
Big difference in the amount of leg action Virge.

This is what I need to work on as I always have had a problem of overactive legs and sliding which combined with a dicky back is a recipe for disaster.

Have you noticed any changes in distance or ball flight ??

virge666
5th August 2008, 08:46 PM
Big difference in the amount of leg action
Have you noticed any changes in distance or ball flight ??

No not really... especially on the range. But - I have always been good on a range... :roll::roll:

But the quality of my golf on the course is getting back to what it use to be like before I got all TGM and "thinky".

Again - I just keep removing bits of what I thought was the right thing to do at the time.

peter_rs
5th August 2008, 09:18 PM
Interesting...

virge666
6th August 2008, 01:47 PM
Virge, you also look like your spine angle wasn't tilted away from the target enough at address ? Was this another thing that could've thrown you out of whack ?

:smt038 :smt038 :smt038

Toolish
6th August 2008, 01:57 PM
No not really... especially on the range. But - I have always been good on a range... :roll::roll:

But the quality of my golf on the course is getting back to what it use to be like before I got all TGM and "thinky".

Again - I just keep removing bits of what I thought was the right thing to do at the time.

Can relate to that! TGM is good, but can cause a bit to much mechanical emphasis. As far as removing bits that seemed right at the time...that is an endless cycle isn't it!

virge666
6th August 2008, 02:38 PM
As far as removing bits that seemed right at the time...that is an endless cycle isn't it!

Yeah - I find that I just lose focus. I don't get to practice much, so I turn up on the range and work on something like posture for a hour or so... then figure out that I need something to go to on the course, so, I end up butchering something to make it go in the right direction-ish.

To be honest mate - I just need more time and less work / family to get better. It has taken 3 months just to get myself to stand up a little straighter. :shock:

Tis bloody anoying.

Toolish
6th August 2008, 03:36 PM
taken me 3 years to stop dipping through impact and I am still not there!

virge666
19th November 2008, 11:02 AM
Thanks to Rusty and BrisVegas for recording that swing in QLD. Shows just how much not playing or practicing puts you straight back into your old habits. Also shows why I had little to no control of the ball for the two days.

My problem as it has always been is swaying and tilting. I sway back with the backswing and then drive my hips and legs at the ball resulting in horrible hooks and the big blocks high and right.

I went and did some practice on Monday night and with Christmas coming up I should have some time to get it back to at least something around my handicap.

I need some shoulder turn and some stability.

schanop
19th November 2008, 01:48 PM
Would love to see virge's swing, but the site is down :-(

Toolish
19th November 2008, 01:49 PM
yep...site is gone forever. Could not justify spending the cash just to host some swing vids. Sorry guys.

henno
19th November 2008, 02:04 PM
I'll host them if anyone still has the files. I have terabytes of bandwidth to kill.

mikezone13
19th November 2008, 02:43 PM
Me too.. I've got a website (golfing one) with space and bandwidth to burn at the moment.. let me know.

virge666
19th November 2008, 03:20 PM
Thanks gents.

Umm . . . can someone PM me login details. I will upload a tonne of stuff

:)

BrisVegas
19th November 2008, 03:39 PM
Thanks to Rusty and BrisVegas for recording that swing in QLD....

I think you mean BrisWesty. I get that a lot, we're pretty similar looking....


:shock:

haysey
19th November 2008, 03:48 PM
I think you mean BrisWesty. I get that a lot, we're pretty similar looking....


:shock:


:D Thats a bit like saying I look like Jarro....:razz:

virge666
19th November 2008, 04:33 PM
:D Thats a bit like saying I look like Jarro....:razz:


You don't look like anyone . . .

;)

mikezone13
19th November 2008, 05:42 PM
Thanks gents.

Umm . . . can someone PM me login details. I will upload a tonne of stuff

:)

Details sent via PM

PeteyD
19th November 2008, 07:23 PM
You don't look like anyone . . .

;)

He looks like that big streak of bird crap in his avatar ;)

haysey
19th November 2008, 08:45 PM
You don't look like anyone . . .

;)

:cry::D


He looks like that big streak of bird crap in his avatar ;)

There's a passing resemblance between yourself and your own avatar there big fella:twisted::mrgreen:

PeteyD
19th November 2008, 08:54 PM
Indeed there is, and with what's been eeking out my rear lately the signature is appropriate too.

haysey
19th November 2008, 09:06 PM
I am looking forward to see how you quiet the lower body down. My weakness (apart from old age and withering flexability) is my swing gets quick and short. I then try and get power by throwing the lower body which just makes it worse, loss of power and loss of ball to the right.


Actually I'm interested in this and how it relates to the over the top move.

I've been experimenting with trying to "block the tits out of the ball" with a reasonable amount of success. It seems that doing that has gone a long way towards stopping the whole body lunge that makes me look like I'm chopping down trees:roll:.

I'm guessing that it starts with controlling the lower body cause I can't see how you can block the ball if your throwing the lower body at it, or have I got it bass ackwards and it's actually the upper body that causes over the top swings?

Or should I just give up now and go play lawn bowls, cause all this crap is way to complicated for my simple brain:razz:

Courty
19th November 2008, 09:26 PM
Or should I just give up now and go play lawn bowls, cause all this crap is way to complicated for my simple brain:razz:

Yep. :p

haysey
19th November 2008, 09:46 PM
Yep. :p

:-s

:smt021:smt014


:D

Scottt
20th November 2008, 07:22 AM
Virge, to give the punters full enjoyment of your swing, you need to turn up the volume on the mic on future swing vids so they can hear you doing the "imaginary bluetooth" thing at address :lol:

Rusty
20th November 2008, 11:50 AM
Haysey imho from what i noticed at Brookwater, put a driver in your hands and you have a totally different swing - yep the woodchop! try not hitting it so hard with the driver. swing thinking that it's an 8 iron. also, to not be so geared up for hitting that fade, no, it's a slice, off the tee - at the range - aim your body (feet, hips & shoulders) way right of your target and then try to move the ball right to left, back onto the target. just to get a feel for it. then gradually aim less and less right, while still trying to move the ball right to left. if you can, video your swing so you can get feedback looking at your swing rather than just what you feel.

virge666
20th November 2008, 02:37 PM
Virge, to give the punters full enjoyment of your swing, you need to turn up the volume on the mic on future swing vids so they can hear you doing the "imaginary bluetooth" thing at address :lol:

Only way i get understood !!

virge666
20th November 2008, 02:44 PM
Actually I'm interested in this and how it relates to the over the top move.

... stuff ...

Or should I just give up now and go play lawn bowls, cause all this crap is way to complicated for my simple brain:razz:

It is a lot easier than that... and I would not start TRYING to stop something... if you try to stop something, it is the first thing to come back when you get out of sync. (me as the prime example)

You have serious, serious plane issues, and it has to do with your posture and how you turn.

To fix it up, you need to understand one thing. The golf swing flows. so if you go way inside on the backswing - naturally you are going to go way outside on the downswing. Don't ask me why . . . but it is true. This is what you do and practice.

So to Fix Haysey... all you need to do is go way outside on the backswing... and you will naturally come back inside on the downswing.

Sounds too easy doesn't it... don't believe me ? Try it on the range. easiest way int he world to hit hooks and fades.

Enjoy

Courty
20th November 2008, 03:38 PM
It is a lot easier than that... and I would not start TRYING to stop something... if you try to stop something, it is the first thing to come back when you get out of sync. (me as the prime example)

You have serious, serious plane issues, and it has to do with your posture and how you turn.

To fix it up, you need to understand one thing. The golf swing flows. so if you go way inside on the backswing - naturally you are going to go way outside on the downswing. Don't ask me why . . . but it is true. This is what you do and practice.

So to Fix Haysey... all you need to do is go way outside on the backswing... and you will naturally come back inside on the downswing.

Sounds too easy doesn't it... don't believe me ? Try it on the range. easiest way int he world to hit hooks and fades.

Enjoy

It looks like I will be playing Haysey first up in the matchplay, so keep filling his head with all this crap. :lol:

virge666
20th November 2008, 04:17 PM
It looks like I will be playing Haysey first up in the matchplay, so keep filling his head with all this crap. :lol:


Not required mate - he has too much handicap as it is. as long as he gets it near the golf course... the 3 pointers will kill you.

haysey
20th November 2008, 05:58 PM
It looks like I will be playing Haysey first up in the matchplay, so keep filling his head with all this crap. :lol:

Hey:smt013. Like I can't fill it with all my own crap anyway. It actually helps to block it all out and just think about one thing;)


Not required mate - he has too much handicap as it is. as long as he gets it near the golf course... the 3 pointers will kill you.

The bolded one is the key, if I can keep it near the golf course I'll do fine:D

Can't believe I only get one shot off Courty anyway[-(

Courty
20th November 2008, 06:55 PM
Can't believe I only get one shot off Courty anyway[-(

You should be giving me a couple, I reckon. :p

virge666
3rd December 2008, 10:00 PM
Alrighty Gents here are some swings from over the years.

Before children hit - 2005 from behind.

Still a bit active in the legs and hips - not too flippy. Quite liked it. I stayed over the ball well and knew where it was going.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/2005%20Model%20DownLine.wmv

and really giving the 7 iron a rip.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/2005%20Thumper.wmv

virge666
3rd December 2008, 10:37 PM
So - 2 years later it had degraded to this rubbish.

The only thing not moving was my bowels...

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/4Wood060507.wmv

virge666
3rd December 2008, 11:02 PM
So I threw a tantrum after losing EVERY one of my pennant matches, thought I should get my act together.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/VirgeStep1.avi

and

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/VirgeStep2.avi

then did some work on weight shift with thanks to Jono.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/WeightShift.avi

and it still wasn't very good away from a driving range . . .

virge666
3rd December 2008, 11:07 PM
And on to posture . . . can't keep dipping through impact for the rest of my life...

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/VirgeBack0408.wmv

&

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/VirgeFront.wmv


but the trouble was - when I was on the course... back to the old habits. Check out me hanging back and driving the legs.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=W3JV_U4lXEo

Same problem as I have always had.

virge666
3rd December 2008, 11:10 PM
And now working on turn... 12 months later from the tantrum.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Virge271108.wmv

It is better - but still too much hip and leg action, still flipping through impact.

So this week it is all about those hips... if I can slow the slide down - I may be able to actually hit DOWN on the ball.

It is all just a work in progress.

oobsadd2
4th December 2008, 07:24 AM
Good looking swing Virge, Do you feel much resistance when coiling up?

Jarro
4th December 2008, 09:48 AM
As usual, very imformative Virge 8)

virge666
4th December 2008, 12:30 PM
Good looking swing Virge, Do you feel much resistance when coiling up?

I use to - but as you can see I lost a lot of my turn looking for resistance. I have relised that I don't really want a lot of resistance. let me explain... quickly

Two ways to play golf ... You can SWING or HIT. There are various arguements to both - but basically - you can push the club through impact or you can pull the club through impact. You cannot do both.

If you Swing the club, you coil up the center and then uncoil from the center back out. This is where you want more feeling of resistance on the backswing. more coil = more power. We call this "CatchUp", spin everything and let the clubhead catchup.

I use a more leveraged approach to Impact. More like chopping wood with an axe. Less speed and more weight behind the hit. It is about the balance and power I can put behind the clubhead - not the speed I can swing it at. That is the plan anyway.

So for mine it is about sequence or "Rhythm" - I miss my old sequence and this swing I have now is getting better and I might just use this like a blog over the next 6 weeks before Pennants.

My short game has stayed with me and that is what has kept my handicap down for the last few years. I would rather have more GIR though.

Enjoy

mikezone13
4th December 2008, 01:48 PM
Trade you some GIR's for your short game mate ;)

Interesting vids, just reconfirms what I was thinking about improving my posture and setup position.

The big question, what is the best way to 'learn' or ingrain a new posture/setup position, how did you do it?

virge666
4th December 2008, 09:21 PM
The big question, what is the best way to 'learn' or ingrain a new posture/setup position, how did you do it?

Repetition and drills mate. Just like bashing your head into a wall. It is great when it is over. It is real hard work... and screws with you mentally.

I did some work tonight and it looks actually pretty good, it is starting to come back.

mikezone13
4th December 2008, 09:28 PM
Repetition and drills mate. Just like bashing your head into a wall. It is great when it is over. It is real hard work... and screws with you mentally.

I did some work tonight and it looks actually pretty good, it is starting to come back.

Got any more info on the drills or somewhere to point me? I want to get away from my 'lazy/slouch' posture and there's only so much staring at myself in the mirror I can do ;)

virge666
4th December 2008, 09:35 PM
Got any more info on the drills or somewhere to point me? I want to get away from my 'lazy/slouch' posture and there's only so much staring at myself in the mirror I can do ;)

Yeah I do - next time I am in the office I will bring stuff with me. It is a bit big for the forum and FTP.

virge666
4th December 2008, 09:40 PM
OK - tonight's stuff. I feel like a king - it almost feels . . . ummm . . . "good"

The front on shot is an 8 iron, The radar said a 139m carry which sounds alright. But pretty much just flushed this club all night.

The second one is later in the evening with a 5 iron - the radar said 168m carry so it is also half decent. Had a bit more trouble with the 5 iron - but hit 60-70% alright.

You can see me working on turn and making sure I have enough room for the hands to drop in the slot. You can also see how much faster my hands are working than in the earlier vids.

Happy Camper tonight, what will tomorrow bring ?

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Virge041208.wmv

dan
5th December 2008, 10:07 AM
Do you think you turn properly? It looks a very armsy swing with the your hands close to your body on the backswing.

virge666
5th December 2008, 11:50 AM
Do you think you turn properly? It looks a very armsy swing with the your hands close to your body on the backswing.


Interesting . . . what do you define a proper turn as ?

What are you looking for ?

The main thiing I don't like about my turn is the flying right elbow... which is caused by my shoulders going under instead of around.

dan
5th December 2008, 12:13 PM
Interesting . . . what do you define a proper turn as ?

What are you looking for ?
Full rotation of the shoulders on the correct angle.


The main thiing I don't like about my turn is the flying right elbow... which is caused by my shoulders going under instead of around.I'd agree with that.

Toolish
5th December 2008, 12:37 PM
Full rotation of the shoulders on the correct angle.

I'd agree with that.

What is full rotation?

What is the correct angle?

dan
5th December 2008, 12:57 PM
What is full rotation?

What is the correct angle?
Getting into that would be like a discussion to nowhere... I suspect. And I'm sure you're more savvy about this stuff than I am.

Toolish
5th December 2008, 01:12 PM
Doubt I am more savvy than you mate.

Golf instructors tend to use the same terms to mean different things, or use wishy washy terms without defining them. Makes any sort of swing discussion difficult.

Just trying to understand what you mean.

virge666
5th December 2008, 02:16 PM
Full rotation of the shoulders on the correct angle.

I'd agree with that.

Next week will be that right elbow - if I can get that better - I think the shoulder turn will look a lot better. Also would like to get that right hip deeper on the backswing.

I have tried a few times to fix that - but we always seem to comeback to it.

:)

dan
5th December 2008, 02:45 PM
Next week will be that right elbow - if I can get that better - I think the shoulder turn will look a lot better.
I would have thought it's the other way around. Fix the shoulder turn and elbow will take care of itself..?.

Equal to the shoulder turn prob, is the lack of spine angle at setup (& top of backswing) and the thrust to the left on the downswing.....no?

3oneday
5th December 2008, 03:33 PM
No, his reverse pivot gets in the way.

virge666
5th December 2008, 05:25 PM
I would have thought it's the other way around. Fix the shoulder turn and elbow will take care of itself..?.


Exactly what I meant ! ;)



Equal to the shoulder turn prob, is the lack of spine angle at setup (& top of backswing) and the thrust to the left on the downswing.....no?

if I get that back hip deeper - that should also fix that. I have been told not to lock that rear leg - struggling with that and having that right hip deeper.



Get back in your box 3.

dan
5th December 2008, 07:42 PM
I have been told not to lock that rear leg - struggling with that and having that right hip deeper.

Yep. The right leg straightening is a symptom of a poor turn...no?

Your higher right side, decreases spine angle, hence the thrust to the left (led by the hips) to achieve some angle into impact. One thing affects the other...all in a very short amount of time.

virge666
5th December 2008, 07:50 PM
Your higher right side, decreases spine angle, hence the thrust to the left (led by the hips) to achieve some angle into impact. One thing affects the other...all in a very short amount of time.

YES !!!! EXACTLY !!!!

And you have to fix the turn to get rid of the leg drive. All I want to be able to do is get a higher left hip through impact and all I seem to get is a lower right side and a leg drive. This means I hit "hold off" shots all day to get the ball to go straight.

Stupid Stupid game !

dan
5th December 2008, 08:42 PM
Atleast you're on plane.

I can't even get that bit right!!! :oops: :roll:

Jono
8th December 2008, 10:41 AM
Hey Virge,

I like your swing 2 years ago much better. More natural.

You seem to have a tendency to stand up on the backswing (especially in the 4 wood swing). That is why your spine angle is more upright at impact than it is at address. To compensate for that, you "dip" the right hip and hunch up in the shoulders.

virge666
8th December 2008, 11:40 AM
I like your swing 2 years ago much better. More natural.


Me too. Back when I could hit the ball and couldn't putt. Now it is the opposite. I had 4 under on the back nine on Saturday, hit it like a champ and putted like a god. Let's not talk about the front nine. NFI :)

Lost the Gold Medal by one stroke... one bloody stroke.

anyway....

I want that right hip deeper on the backswing. If I can get that hip deeper - I can keep my arms close to my body.

Then on the downswing - I can drop the arms and rotate the right hip around the front hip instead of sliding everything on the downswing

If I ever look like that 4W again... someone please hit me.

Jono
8th December 2008, 03:38 PM
Perhaps if you started whistling that tune again, you might get your old swing back ... ;)

virge666
12th January 2009, 11:01 AM
Perhaps if you started whistling that tune again, you might get your old swing back ... ;)


Which tune ? :?

My new wedges arrive today so I will off to the range today to have a play and a hit. 3 Mizuno wedges (52,56 and 60) for sale tomorow.

Major Pennants trials start this week and I have been hitting the ball well and for the first time in my life, I am very happy with my putting stroke. It makes a big difference when you are not hitting it well to hole a few par putts.

So I will get some video tonight and load up the comparisons.

BTW: 3Balls - 3 Ping tour wedges delivered in 3 days, awesome.

Jono
13th January 2009, 06:39 AM
Which tune ? :?



Whatever tune you are whistling in the swing clip video from 2 years ago. Seems to have worked back then. 8)

razaar
15th January 2009, 12:29 PM
Everything is there or so it seems to me. It is very quick though which can upset the flow of the swing and impair your feeling of what occurred. It can also mean poor flexibility in key areas i.e. hamstrings, hips, upper back and rotator cuffs. Your set up (front view) indicates that your hips are out of alignment, right leg may be longer than your left...worth getting it checked out. Two excelent books on stretching are both by the same author Kit Laughlin "Overcome Neck & Back Pain now includes Shoulder, Arm & Hand Pain" & "Stretching & Flexibility". The first (Overcome..) has all you want for golf.

virge666
28th February 2009, 09:24 PM
Gents,

For the first time in a long time I actually have a swing back again, and by that I mean a swing that i can take to the course and not one that I make up when I am there.

Such a weird feeling.

I will put some video up as soon as I get some next week. I will show the progression from Nov 2007 to today. The handicap has got out to 4, but, I am hopeing if family or work don't butcher me over the next couple of months, I can push it back down to the 2 or even 1 level.

Pennants @ Monash tomorrow at 6am. Have to go and putt on the floorboards to practice.

Life is good.

zigwah
28th February 2009, 09:37 PM
Gents,

For the first time in a long time I actually have a swing back again, and by that I mean a swing that i can take to the course and not one that I make up when I am there.

I'll be the judge of that young man :-s i await your footage :smt108

schanop
1st March 2009, 04:52 AM
Gents,

For the first time in a long time I actually have a swing back again, and by that I mean a swing that i can take to the course and not one that I make up when I am there.

Such a weird feeling.

I will put some video up as soon as I get some next week. I will show the progression from Nov 2007 to today. The handicap has got out to 4, but, I am hopeing if family or work don't butcher me over the next couple of months, I can push it back down to the 2 or even 1 level.

Pennants @ Monash tomorrow at 6am. Have to go and putt on the floorboards to practice.

Life is good.

Congrat and good luck with the match. The clubs that you built for me are awesome:smt038

Scottt
1st March 2009, 05:17 AM
Pennants @ Monash tomorrow at 6am.

Do they allow you to wear those sexy denim shorts? :lol:

virge666
1st March 2009, 05:42 PM
Do they allow you to wear those sexy denim shorts? :lol:

Exsqeeze me... denim shorts are not allowed under ANY occasion unless you are a twenty-something hotty with large boobs and then they are wrapping paper.

Lost 3 & 2 at Monash and flushed it all morning. Stupid, Stupid greens.

Oh - and he played pretty good too. (bastard)

razaar
2nd March 2009, 07:46 AM
I'd be more interested in seeing your putting stroke rather than your golf swing. I think it still counts the same on the score card as a full swing.:)

virge666
2nd March 2009, 07:57 AM
I'd be more interested in seeing your putting stroke rather than your golf swing. I think it still counts the same on the score card as a full swing.:)

Ha!

I have done my pennance in putting. I spent most of 2007 ignoring my fullswing to get some putting consistancy.

I easily average less than 30 putts on my home course with 31 putts yesterday @ Monash on very fast greens. Hitting the right side of the green also helps a lot.

I copied Pamplings stroke. Feet close together, slightly open, with an putter that does not stay square to the target line.

razaar
2nd March 2009, 08:12 AM
31 putts (some being conceded) for 16 holes isn't real flash. Lets have a peek at your putting stroke. I take it from your comments that the result of the match came down to putting.

virge666
2nd March 2009, 11:18 AM
31 putts (some being conceded) for 16 holes isn't real flash. Lets have a peek at your putting stroke. I take it from your comments that the result of the match came down to putting.

You haven't played Monash mate. Lookup the "Monash Masters" and have a read about their greens. Greenkeepers with serious self-esteem issues.

The main problem is that it was a decent course back in the day but the greens are 70 years old. The lumps and slopes are great for the slow greens on the time - but with the newer green keeping methods. 7 greens are just unputtable if you are on the wrong side. I won the 2nd hole because the guy I played had 8' above the hole that went off the green.

If you ever get the chance - play the Monash Masters 36 holes event. It is brutal.

And with most "foreign" courses - it ain't the actual mechanics - it is the green reading. When you have a green stimping at 12-13, local knowledge plays a big part.

But . . . happy to put up my putting stroke and chipping stroke as well.

3oneday
2nd March 2009, 11:39 AM
You haven't played Monash mate. Lookup the "Monash Masters" and have a read about their greens. Greenkeepers with serious self-esteem issues.

The main problem is that it was a decent course back in the day but the greens are 70 years old. The lumps and slopes are great for the slow greens on the time - but with the newer green keeping methods. 7 greens are just unputtable if you are on the wrong side. I won the 2nd hole because the guy I played had 8' above the hole that went off the green.

If you ever get the chance - play the Monash Masters 36 holes event. It is brutal.

And with most "foreign" courses - it ain't the actual mechanics - it is the green reading. When you have a green stimping at 12-13, local knowledge plays a big part.

But . . . happy to put up my putting stroke and chipping stroke as well.
Happy to concur wholeheartedly.

The year I played it I one putted the first, and 3 putted the next 5 :shock:. They were apparently running at 14 on the stimpmeter which I am told is faster than Augusta. You go past some flags, you simply cannot get it close coming back down !

I played with a member who simply said that it's the only way they can protect the course from being torn apart every week.

I believe Fatty Vautin used to play off 4 there !

razaar
2nd March 2009, 12:22 PM
Just had a quick look at Colin Tatz's book "A Course of History, Monash Country Club"; I see what you mean

page 225

"If not all holes are memorable, the greens certainly are. Colin Johnson's comment on the eve of the 1964 PGA is valid to this day; 'The scores will be reasonably high because the greens will be terribly fast. Three putts will be common and don't be surprised if you hear a tale or two about the fourth putt. The greens aren't tricked out in the sense of having steep tiers or roller coaster bumps and humps to make putting difficult. The contours, speed and degree of borrow on almost every putt make for heavy concentration - and frustration. The '300yard specialists' often fare badly at Monash. In the popular phrase, these 'gorillas' look 'awesome', but the real question is whether they can putt, or rather, can they think before they putt?"

Is that a reasonable description of your recent experience?:lol::lol::lol:

virge666
2nd March 2009, 01:40 PM
Is that a reasonable description of your recent experience?:lol::lol::lol:

That is pretty close.

I shot even par the front nine and then had 2 over the back nine with a bogey on the 11th and 14th. Hit the 14th green (195m par 3 to a raised green over water) for one and both the caddie and myself TOTALLY misread it. We thought about 3m left to right. It was in fact around 1m right to left. Just an insane place.

What kills you are the 8-10', you read about 2 or 3" of break, you are hitting the ball so softly, that if your pace is just a touch off you miss the hole and your left with 4-6' comming back or in one case for our #3 player . . . the sandwedge.

The local lads seem to know what you can be agressive on and how to putt the greens. When you spend so much energy making sure you are below the hole to get the 10' up hill... and then grind on each and every putt, by the 15th you are just shattered.

If you get the chance... have a go. it makes an Aussie Open qualifier play like a Monday night chook run.

Enjoy

virge666
3rd March 2009, 12:58 PM
2 weeks ago is here - last weekd swings didn't come out because of light issues.

These ones are still a bit uppy downy, didn't quite have the drop down and right hip sorted by then as I found something a couple of nights ago - but the turn is deeper.

The bit I added was clearing the right side more agressively through impact. This had be going at the target a bit harder.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/SwingCuts250209.wmv

I will get the latest swing up soon.

Also I added this. it is from a Edwin Seminar and shows the difference between catchup and leverage. Gaz is a bit wanky with his desctipion of a catchup swing, showing it to be all wavey, but you should get the idea.

Lastly is the fantastic description of BALANCE, and why I keep harping on posture.

I may get into trouble for posting this - but seeing as it does not show any of the cool secrets that we have... it is more a generic advertisment for Edwin... I am hoping to get away with it.

Enjoy.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Leverage.wmv

PeteyD
3rd March 2009, 01:00 PM
link no worky. Guess you didn't get away with it

Toolish
3rd March 2009, 01:02 PM
...

virge666
3rd March 2009, 01:19 PM
Fixed... too many spaces.

My link is the one to use.

dan
3rd March 2009, 02:19 PM
Got anymore of that last video?

virge666
3rd March 2009, 02:22 PM
Got anymore of that last video?


Yep.

:)

henno
3rd March 2009, 02:39 PM
Care to share? Anonymously, or otherwise?

markTHEblake
3rd March 2009, 06:51 PM
Whats with the little nod after you hit it, an acknowledgement of perfection? :-)

and is that one of the free download from his website for members? i used to know someone elses password there, downloaded some stuff, but i forgot it now, but there is some good swing videos available.

virge666
3rd March 2009, 09:33 PM
Whats with the little nod after you hit it, an acknowledgement of perfection? :-)

and is that one of the free download from his website for members? i used to know someone elses password there, downloaded some stuff, but i forgot it now, but there is some good swing videos available.


Didn't notice the nods... might just be the editing cut.

That is one of the latest downloads from the members website. Hence my intrepidation on posting it.

There is also a great video on direction of turn, but you will have to join for that one.

PeteyD
4th March 2009, 08:01 PM
Hence my intrepidation on posting it.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_correct_spelling_of_'intrepidation'

virge666
8th March 2009, 01:20 PM
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_correct_spelling_of_'intrepidation'


I stand corrected...

That must really get up your nose. Much like my hatred of the term "Basically"

I feel your pain.

henno
8th March 2009, 02:56 PM
"irregardless"

That quasi-word sends shivers up my spine every time someone uses it.

PeteyD
8th March 2009, 04:39 PM
Basically :D

wtf is irregardless ?

adlo
8th March 2009, 04:44 PM
2 weeks ago is here - last weekd swings didn't come out because of light issues.

These ones are still a bit uppy downy, didn't quite have the drop down and right hip sorted by then as I found something a couple of nights ago - but the turn is deeper.

The bit I added was clearing the right side more agressively through impact. This had be going at the target a bit harder.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/SwingCuts250209.wmv

I will get the latest swing up soon.

Also I added this. it is from a Edwin Seminar and shows the difference between catchup and leverage. Gaz is a bit wanky with his desctipion of a catchup swing, showing it to be all wavey, but you should get the idea.

Lastly is the fantastic description of BALANCE, and why I keep harping on posture.

I may get into trouble for posting this - but seeing as it does not show any of the cool secrets that we have... it is more a generic advertisment for Edwin... I am hoping to get away with it.

Enjoy.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Leverage.wmv
Virge,

Edwin stuff is intriguing me. However, I must say that vid is a little annoying as Edwin seems hell bent on a sales pitch knocking the opposition.

Is there any more links on Edwin stuff you know of? I did a scan of youtube but didn't turn up much.

Also, can you tell me where is the power coming from in Edwin's swing?

When I had a hit with rebjon yesterday we were messing around with the Edwin swing (he has studied it a bit). I was hitting clubs about the same distances but could not understand why.

virge666
8th March 2009, 07:43 PM
Virge,

Is there any more links on Edwin stuff you know of? I did a scan of youtube but didn't turn up much.

Also, can you tell me where is the power coming from in Edwin's swing?


The power comes from the same place a normal swing comes from. Except instead of spinning the hips and then letting the club come around to hit the ball ... We spin our hips and hit the ball at the same time.

I completely agree with your summation of Gary, the problem is that he is a pretty smart bloke that has been all but vilified over the years, so he is prone to taking the piss.

Look at Darren Clarke, Ian Woosnam, Henric Stenson for the same kind of swing. Visually you will see the right side and shoulder come around at the same time.

Technically - it is a different hand action (Hogan's five lessons) and the direction we turn in. It is a much deeper turn with the right hip.

http://www.garyedwingolf.com.au/

razaar
9th March 2009, 06:54 AM
This is a quote by Pete Draovitch (Norman’s fitness instructor in the 1990’s) about coordination of power transfer from lower to upper body in the swing.

“Maximum power is generated in the golf swing when the action of the lower body generates a counterclockwise acceleration of the hips around the axis of the spine. The hip segment accelerates first, creating a dynamic loading of the trunk musculature. The shoulder segment then follows the lead of the hip segment in a counterclockwise direction and accelerates. At this time the hip segment begins to decelerate. This action passes energy to the trunk as these muscles contract to accelerate the shoulder segment. The result is the creation of power and rotational speed of the shoulders, about double that of the hips.

The desired interaction between hip segment rotation and trunk segment rotation occurs in perfect sequence during the optimal swing. The key to this coordinated action is a high level of strength and flexibility through the trunk area, especially the muscles that contribute to trunk stabilization and rotary movements”.

This book is “Complete Conditioning for Golf” by Pete Draovitch/Wayne Westcott. Foreword by Greg Norman

Scottt
9th March 2009, 07:02 AM
Virge, I was giving some thought after reading Hogan's Five Lessons to the discussion we had on the 9th tee at Ashlar that day, about the arms starting the downswing and the hips kicking in as the arms have moved about a foot.

That seemed a decent diversion from the sequencing Hogan described. Is that an Edwin thing?

virge666
9th March 2009, 07:16 AM
“Maximum power is generated in the golf swing

Yep - damn right, Maximum Power.

The problem I have with this is control. Using your left side to create the torque in the upper body is a fine way to hit the ball hard.

But to a bloke who gets to practice once or twice a fortnight, I have a problem getting the timimg right between pulling my left hip out of the way and letting my right side come round at speed.

I find it much easier to get my right hip and shoulder through at the same time, add to this Hogan's hand action and it is just easier to play decent golf. I do hit it further by spinning the hips... but I play golf a lot better with the extra control, especially with 6-iron up.

Both methods work absolutley fine. Like everything in golf - it is a trade off between distance and control. I am under 80kg at present and have no problem hitting the driver 250m. (4i about 190m, 8i about 140m)

But... Norman hit the ball miles... best driver of a golf ball ever. Slightly different work ethic to me though. :)

virge666
9th March 2009, 07:43 AM
Virge, I was giving some thought after reading Hogan's Five Lessons to the discussion we had on the 9th tee at Ashlar that day, about the arms starting the downswing and the hips kicking in as the arms have moved about a foot.


No - it is not a part of either pattern.

The downswing is started with a brace / bump / turn / spin of the hips. This in turn loads the upper body.

The problem at Ashlar is that your legs were driving / sliding forward. I need to legs to stay quite solid and for your hips to rotate - NOT slide - ROTATE.

The easiest way to do this with most players is to tell them to start the downswing with their arms. The focus is then on their arms to start instead of saying "Don't" spin the hips. This usually get players to brace for the downswing with their hips and legs instead of trying to use the legs to generate more speed.

Edwin call it a bump, TGM call it something else, some people call it the sitdown..

Same shit - different smell.

razaar
9th March 2009, 07:54 AM
Virge....the transfer of weight to the front foot starts the ball rolling (dropping the hands down to belly button level), the hips then do their thing followed by the trunk rotation which pulls the hips to where you want yours to be. It is the trunk and upper body rotation that is very evident in the swings of the European tour players you mentioned above. European players have a noticable separation of the left side from the right side to start the downswing and all rotation to the finish.

virge666
9th March 2009, 08:10 AM
Virge....the transfer of weight to the front foot starts the ball rolling (dropping the hands down to belly button level), the hips then do their thing followed by the trunk rotation which pulls the hips to where you want yours to be. It is the trunk and upper body rotation that is very evident in the swings of the European tour players you mentioned above. European players have a noticable separation of the left side from the right side to start the downswing and all rotation to the finish.


Is it transfer of weight or rotation of the upper body ?

For the arms to drop, they have to drop against something to create leverage. You will find on slo-mo that the hips are moving forward first.

razaar
9th March 2009, 02:03 PM
No mate its the transfer of weight that comes first ...its what you referred to as the bump in an #110. For those players who play with the toe/heel/toe foot action (all power swings seem to have this foot action), the first movement is transferring the weight from the right heel (80%) & front toe (20%), to the left heel (50%) and right foot (50%). This sets up the leverage to turn the left hip (the right hip should have turned in the backswing; the turning left hip activates the torso muscles that turns the trunk etc.. everything has to be given time to work in sequence to maintain the continuity of the forward swing..if there is a breakdown it sort of "strips the thread" and causes power leakage.

Irv Schloss a legend European teacher (decades ago) had this to say about the disposition of the shoulders at directional change "The middle of the back, as the swing changes direction, should remain pointing towards the target, as it was at the top of the backswing. By the time the hands are halfway down, the shoulders should only be 45 degrees to the target line".

Toolish
9th March 2009, 08:37 PM
Razaar...what is the toe/heel/toe foot action?

Eag's
9th March 2009, 09:01 PM
Razaar...what is the toe/heel/toe foot action?

Sounds like a bloody barn dance to me.

razaar
9th March 2009, 09:02 PM
Toolish
Its a turn where the weight moves back onto the right heel (80%) and forward onto the ball of the left foot (20%). There is a feeling of a diagonal push down and out into the ball of the left foot which sets up a tightly wound position at the top from the knees up. It is a feeling of tension and coiling & creates potential energy for generating power in the downswing and through swing. It is really a matter of getting the tension right with a full coil before exploding everything back through impact. On the downswing the weight shifts to the left heel finishing on that heel (80%) and right toe (20%). You should be able to wiggle your left toes in your shoes at the finish without rolling on the side of the front foot.

virge666
9th March 2009, 09:27 PM
No mate its the transfer of weight that comes first.

I will ask you the same question I asked Jono.

- What is "weight" and how do you transfer it ?

- More importantly - how do you teach transfer of weight to a student without them tilting and sliding ?

I love how you have broken everything down to toes and heels, but nothing details direction of the turn and to me - that is the most important part.

adlo
9th March 2009, 09:58 PM
Virge, where is a decent place to start with the GE swing?
If I can hit it the same distance as a "classic" swing, I am sold, it is so repeatable. I have been swinging the club without hitting balls and love the stability of the right sided swing.

virge666
9th March 2009, 09:59 PM
Virge, where is a decent place to start with the GE swing?
If I can hit it the same distance as a "classic" swing, I am sold, it is so repeatable. I have been swinging the club without hitting balls and love the stability of the right sided swing.


Give the boys a call and ask them for a local pro.

or...

Jon the website for $40 a year. more videos on there than you can poke a stick at.

adlo
9th March 2009, 10:03 PM
I dont think there is one, from what Rebjon has said. Well there is the golfguru, but not keen on that option.

Might look at joining the website. Cheers.

Scottt
9th March 2009, 10:33 PM
There's an opening for you Virge. Sunny Perth, plenty of fresh meat to teach the GE ways to... a new career beckons!

adlo
9th March 2009, 10:36 PM
There's an opening for you Virge. Sunny Perth, plenty of fresh meat to teach the GE ways to... a new career beckons!
Compliment accepted.

Scottt
9th March 2009, 10:46 PM
The way you and JC carry on I'm not sure you're all that fresh :lol: but hey, gotta take compliments where you can get them!

razaar
10th March 2009, 06:52 AM
I will ask you the same question I asked Jono.

- What is "weight" and how do you transfer it ?

- More importantly - how do you teach transfer of weight to a student without them tilting and sliding ?

I love how you have broken everything down to toes and heels, but nothing details direction of the turn and to me - that is the most important part.
To me, weight in this context is a slight shifting of the body's centre of gravity around the spine.

How to teach a student...first a simple explanation of the golf swing - the backswing is the body turning and the arms lifting; the downswing is in reverse, the arms drop and the body turns through. I learnt by two methods - a pause at the top and lowering both arms down behind me; and a pause at the top and shifting the weight that was pushing down into the ball of the left foot to the left heel (which also dropped the hands behind me). The problem for most golfers is they get the right side of the body turning first before the arms start their downward movement. Tilting and sliding is mostly the result of a slide during the back swing where the right hip moves laterally instead of behind & towards the left. There are very few people who can turn their upper body into a full coil and have their hips stay in their address position. I have only seen one player who could do this and he could still do it in his 70's - Keith Drage.

The direction of the turn is controlled by the picture (or sense) of the target which should be in your mind's eye. Also another reason why the pros are always working on alignment and ball position.

virge666
10th March 2009, 07:43 AM
Tilting and sliding is mostly the result of a slide during the back swing where the right hip moves laterally instead of behind & towards the left

Let me play devils advocate....

"But i have to keep my head still and shift my weight to my right side." says the student.

virge666
10th March 2009, 07:45 AM
There's an opening for you Virge. Sunny Perth, plenty of fresh meat to teach the GE ways to... a new career beckons!


But I would have to live in Perth. (Bit to hard to commute) And while it is a nice place to visit, nay, a friggin great place to visit. i could think of little worse than living there. (Not WA's fault of course... must be the Eastern States. ;))

:twisted:

henno
10th March 2009, 07:49 AM
I could live there in a heart-beat. Lovely city.

I'd move there before Melbourne, Adelaide and Shitney without question.

virge666
10th March 2009, 08:02 AM
I could live there in a heart-beat. Lovely city.


Top idea, we could get together and do . . . ummm . . .

razaar
10th March 2009, 08:15 AM
Let me play devils advocate....

"But i have to keep my head still and shift my weight to my right side." says the student.
Depends on his size, width & height etc, how he stands at address - very upright with little hip angle, bent over with a high butt, or in between. If it is very upright with little hip angle it shouldn't be a problem because he doesn't need a counter balance to maintain balance and centre of gravity to retain his posture and address angles back through the address position. If he is bent over he will need a counter balance which is his butt.

The important part is retaining the spine and hip angles set up at address until past the ball position; otherwise why have an address position.

virge666
10th March 2009, 09:08 AM
The important part is retaining the spine and hip angles set up at address until past the ball position; otherwise why have an address position.

You and I both know this... now try answering the question.

My student here is not going to do anything because he has been told that he has to keep his head still and shift his weight to the right.

You have to figure out a way to explain to said student who probably plays in the mid teens how to shift his weight without moving his head. This guy hits his irons OK - but just wants some more consistancy with his driver.

So the question is . . . What is "Weight" and how do you shift it ?

This is not about what is right or wrong, what is physically correct and using diagrams and lines on a picture. It is about communication.

You have a guy in front of you like most guys on this site, have a half decent swing but will never get any better because what they think is right is totally wrong, and what is right doesn't "feel" powerful and they can't take it to the course on Saturday.

You can try and talk to these guys/girls but as soon as you mention angles, balance, plane or anything that they haven't heard of - the walls go up and they go back to bashing driver on the range.

I maintain that you cannot teach weight shift because it is the result of a good turn. Not the other way around.

razaar
10th March 2009, 10:52 AM
Weight is anything that is governed by the laws of gravity which means anything that is not vertical in a golf swing. Show him a video of Colin Montgomerie's swing and say "imitate that".

virge666
10th March 2009, 11:16 AM
Show him a video of Colin Montgomerie's swing and say "imitate that".

Don't think he/she will pay money for this.

Everything you say is true... but it makes little sense to a mid-handicapper.

It is much easier to get someone to do a couple of baseball swings and ask them to explain to me what they feel their weight is doing, rather than tell them what their weight should be doing.

You have just proven that you cannot teach the weight shift simply. You can describe it - but you cannot teach it.

razaar
10th March 2009, 11:45 AM
Thank God for that. At least I know enough to fix my own swing when it strays, which is all I care about. Oh by the way, two of my sons were national baseball representatives, Rick (shortstop) & Shane (catcher) both played for the Brisbane Bandits, Rick also played at Tampa with the Devil Rays and then in Chicago. If you want to discus the baseball swing I'm up for it.:lol:

virge666
10th March 2009, 12:02 PM
Nice tantrum, but there is no need to puff out the chest and tell me how good your family is. I really just don't care. (liked the little "dig" too, nice touch)

The question is straight forward and I have asked many many teachers and high level players exactly the same question.

I offer the question again.

What is weight shift and how do I teach it to a mid marker ?

razaar
10th March 2009, 12:18 PM
Why not use the drill I pm'd to you last Sat. as under -

I see. This is a rotational weight transfer drill that Greg Norman used in the 90's which may interest you - according to his fitness instructor Pete Draovitch.
Assume a golf stance in front of a mirror with a club.
Shift approx 80 percent of your weight to the rear foot keeping 20 percent on the ball of the left foot.
Now rotate segments approx 45 degrees in a clockwise direction (loaded position). Start with the hips - trunk segment, then the trunk - shoulders, and finally the shoulders - arms.
Feel and hold the position.
Transfer weight slowly from the rear foot to the front foot (left heel) and rotate in a counterclockwise direction. End with about 90 percent of the weight on the left heel directly under the left hip.
Tips
Always keep the shoulders directly above the hips.
Make sure you are hinging at the hips.
Make sure rotation and weight transfer occur simultaneously.
Nothing new here but it may help you feel the positions you are searching for.

razaar
10th March 2009, 03:02 PM
The question is straight forward and I have asked many many teachers and high level players exactly the same question.

I offer the question again.

What is weight shift and how do I teach it to a mid marker ?


I had to look this weight issue up for some sort of clarity; its something that I have taken for granted and never thought to define. Anyway this may be of use for your purposes.

“The weight shift is a combination of two forces – normal forces and shear forces. Your feet generate forces when they push against the ground. These forces act to propel your body and create motion. Normal forces are illustrated in the linear component of the swing, and shear forces are illustrated in the rotational components of the swing.

Normal forces are applied by the feet downward or perpendicular to the ground. Weight is transferred to the back foot during the backswing and to the front foot during the downswing. When weight is shifted to one foot, the amount of force supplied by the foot increases while the normal force applied by the other foot decreases. This action defines the linear component of the movement. The linear movement of the body during the downswing is is very important because it is from this movement that the body develops momentum that enhances the rotational speed and power of the hips.

Shear force is applied by the feet along the surface of, or parallel to, the ground. Through the swing, shear forces are applied by both feet. These shear forces create torque that turns the hips around the axis of the trunk. This defines the rotational component of the lower body movement. The rotational component can be related most directly to the ultimate club head speed attained in the swing.

When faults occur in lower body mechanics, the effect on the golf swing is analogous to cracks in the foundations of a house. When a stable base is lost, swing efficiency erodes. The most common fault in lower body mechanics is sliding. When a golfer slides, the interaction between the linear and rotational components breaks down, weight transfer is diminished, and rotation is lost.”

adlo
10th March 2009, 10:04 PM
Virge, any tips on this right sided swing business other than what I can find around the traps?

I have had a look around, haven't signed up for the website yet.

Anything specific to keep in mind?

I have seen a good Pamps video that shows the address position and swing. A bit unsure about the downswing. Should it be a piston action or just swing and hit the ball?

When I saw Lamby at The Vines he had a interesting follow through. Very abbreviated.
I seem to get a similar result if I mess around with a piston action. If I just think more about swinging through my follow through is very similar to a normal swing. Any thoughts or tips to fuel my desire to mess around with the GE swing?

virge666
10th March 2009, 10:30 PM
I had to look this weight issue up for some sort of clarity;

. . . stuff . . . lots and lots of "stuff"

and rotational components breaks down, weight transfer is diminished, and rotation is lost.”

Razaar, I appreciate your efforts, I really do. But you seem to be missing the point. I don't need it defined, i don't need it explained technically, physically, mentally or bio-physically.

I want it in a manner that I can take to a 15 marker and explain it to him/her.

I want to take it to a person who has no understanding of trunk rotation, upper body torque, sliding or anything technical at all.

This is for a person who plays golf with social group on Friday, watches Tiger and Adam Scott on TV and reckons he knows a bit about golf because he turns his shoulders to 90 degrees and has a straight left arm.

I don't want regurgitated facts out of a book nor a breakdown of percentages of what each foot does. Just a simple method . . . to teach a mid marker or a clinic or a corporate day about weight shift.

I did like what you said about weight being two forces, and your drill is good for someone who is technically minded - but I cannot give that drill to a bunch of cadets, nor a group of women in a clinic.

virge666
10th March 2009, 10:31 PM
Virge, any tips on this right sided swing business other than what I can find around the traps?


Adlo - it's $40, blow the dust out of your wallet and get access to the video vault.

The live lessons are worth it alone.

henno
10th March 2009, 10:36 PM
Adlo - it's $40, blow the dust out of your wallet and get access to the video vault.

The live lessons are worth it alone.

You mean... pay... for something... on the INTERNET???

adlo
10th March 2009, 10:36 PM
Adlo - it's $40, blow the dust out of your wallet and get access to the video vault.

The live lessons are worth it alone.
Fair enough.

virge666
10th March 2009, 11:26 PM
Latest Swings are up on the server

Rather happy with it. Still got too much slide on the down swing and the right hip isn't high enough through impact - but hey, it is a game of mishits.

Front and back together.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Swings110309.wmv

Be brutal. :)

mike
11th March 2009, 12:04 AM
Worst swing I've ever seen

adlo
11th March 2009, 12:11 AM
Worst swing I've ever seen
He said be brutal. Not lovey dovey.

mike
11th March 2009, 12:18 AM
Not brutal enough ?

adlo
11th March 2009, 12:27 AM
Nope :lol:

Virge, that swing looks as ugly as a hat full of arseholes.

Along those lines Mike....

PeteyD
11th March 2009, 06:13 AM
Coloured balls are kinda ghey.

razaar
11th March 2009, 07:43 AM
Razaar, I appreciate your efforts, I really do. But you seem to be missing the point. I don't need it defined, i don't need it explained technically, physically, mentally or bio-physically.

I want it in a manner that I can take to a 15 marker and explain it to him/her.

I want to take it to a person who has no understanding of trunk rotation, upper body torque, sliding or anything technical at all.

This is for a person who plays golf with social group on Friday, watches Tiger and Adam Scott on TV and reckons he knows a bit about golf because he turns his shoulders to 90 degrees and has a straight left arm.

I don't want regurgitated facts out of a book nor a breakdown of percentages of what each foot does. Just a simple method . . . to teach a mid marker or a clinic or a corporate day about weight shift.

I did like what you said about weight being two forces, and your drill is good for someone who is technically minded - but I cannot give that drill to a bunch of cadets, nor a group of women in a clinic.
No worries mate. Acouple of weeks ago I was hitting balls on the practice range and our new pro was giving a lesson to a very good golfer from another club. This guy could really get it out there but he didn't have any control. He had a big hip turn on the back swing and a hip turn that didn't look right in the throughswing. To me it looked like his right moved back to the left at the start of the downswing. Anyway the pro produces a stance board which has the rear foot position fixed and the front foot position on rails that slides back to the rear foot section. Because it is off the ground it has a separate board covered in artificial grass at the same height for a ball.

The pupil gets on the board and starts swinging. I was a very interested spectator because I could see the benefits of this device in teaching the rotational weight transference technique. The pupil quickly adapted to using his abductors to keep the feet sections from sliding but lost the rotation. The pro seemed happy with this and never once explained to him the real purpose of the stance board. That might be in the next lesson. I believe this device sells for $360. Next time I see him I will get the details if you are interested.

sms316
11th March 2009, 07:54 AM
How much paralysis by analysis can be posted in one thread? My brain hurts.

Sydney Hacker
11th March 2009, 07:55 AM
Virge, how do you hit of those spongy mats at Pirates (or whatever the range is called).

I went their once and it felt like I was bouncing when wearing sneakers.

kwantfm
11th March 2009, 07:57 AM
No worries mate. Acouple of weeks ago I was hitting balls on the practice range and our new pro was giving a lesson to a very good golfer from another club. This guy could really get it out there but he didn't have any control. He had a big hip turn on the back swing and a hip turn that didn't look right in the throughswing. To me it looked like his right moved back to the left at the start of the downswing. Anyway the pro produces a stance board which has the rear foot position fixed and the front foot position on rails that slides back to the rear foot section. Because it is off the ground it has a separate board covered in artificial grass at the same height for a ball.

The pupil gets on the board and starts swinging. I was a very interested spectator because I could see the benefits of this device in teaching the rotational weight transference technique. The pupil quickly adapted to using his abductors to keep the feet sections from sliding but lost the rotation. The pro seemed happy with this and never once explained to him the real purpose of the stance board. That might be in the next lesson. I believe this device sells for $360. Next time I see him I will get the details if you are interested.

Was it this?

http://www.leaderboardgolfswingtrainer.websyte.com.au/site.cfm?/leaderboardgolfswingtrainer/2/

Scottt
11th March 2009, 07:57 AM
Razaar, I appreciate your efforts, I really do. But you seem to be missing the point. I don't need it defined, i don't need it explained technically, physically, mentally or bio-physically.

I want it in a manner that I can take to a 15 marker and explain it to him/her.

I want to take it to a person who has no understanding of trunk rotation, upper body torque, sliding or anything technical at all.

This is for a person who plays golf with social group on Friday, watches Tiger and Adam Scott on TV and reckons he knows a bit about golf because he turns his shoulders to 90 degrees and has a straight left arm.

I don't want regurgitated facts out of a book nor a breakdown of percentages of what each foot does. Just a simple method . . . to teach a mid marker or a clinic or a corporate day about weight shift.

I did like what you said about weight being two forces, and your drill is good for someone who is technically minded - but I cannot give that drill to a bunch of cadets, nor a group of women in a clinic.

Virge, at the risk of being accused of blowing smoke up your arse, I just wanted to weigh in and say the way you teach the game - at least the way you have to me - is so clear and simple that it's impossible not to learn and impossible not to know what you mean with your directions.

My brief dalliances with people who fancy themselves at teaching the game of golf have often involved so much jargon, theory and locked-in thinking that it feels like my advancement is dependent on me solving a puzzle first.

Your explanation to me about weight shift taking care of itself if you don't think about it, but concentrate on a full shoulder turn going back and strong hip turn going through, was the single clearest but most beneficial thing I have been told about swinging a golf club.

Granted, I still manage to f**k it up with decent enough regularity, but that's only one person's fault... moi!

Jarro
11th March 2009, 07:59 AM
Virge, how about putting up some swings with your driver ?

From my (limited) experience with the GE stuff ... hitting irons isn't the problem, it's the woods.

What's the secret there ??

razaar
11th March 2009, 08:01 AM
Another drill

Linear Weight Transfer Drill for beginners:

Focus: To become accustomed to appropriate weight transfer.


Procedure:

Assume a golf stance with club in address position.
Shift appox.80 % of your weight to the rear foot.
Rotate (clubhead to hip high), loading on the back leg, keeping the upperbody in the backswing position as you rotate your hips to initiate the motion.
Hold and feel the position.
Transfer weight slowly from the rear to front foot, ending with approx 80 % weight on the front foot. Leave the club in its backswing position.


Tips:



Feel the weight transfer.
Make sure you are hinging at the hips and not bending at the back.
Do not slide the hips out from under the shoulders

razaar
11th March 2009, 08:06 AM
Was it this?

http://www.leaderboardgolfswingtrainer.websyte.com.au/site.cfm?/leaderboardgolfswingtrainer/2/
Yes T, that's it.

Scottt
11th March 2009, 08:06 AM
Razaar,

What do you lose by abandoning language that all golfers can understand? Not a personal attack, but I feel many of us are alienated from what I'm sure is very good instruction by the use of language that is more jargony than it needs to be.

What is its purpose?

sms316
11th March 2009, 08:11 AM
Razaar,

What do you lose by abandoning language that all golfers can understand? Not a personal attack, but I feel many of us are alienated from what I'm sure is very good instruction by the use of language that is more jargony than it needs to be.

What is its purpose?
Well said. This is going over heads that know more about swinging a club than me.

razaar
11th March 2009, 08:26 AM
Razaar,

What do you lose by abandoning language that all golfers can understand? Not a personal attack, but I feel many of us are alienated from what I'm sure is very good instruction by the use of language that is more jargony than it needs to be.

What is its purpose?
I guess it is just my style of putting words on the screen; I was told I had a dyslexic disorder at school so I guess I am a little different to others who post. As for my posts on the golf swing - they are exactly as I understand it - maybe a little complex, but then again understanding the golf swing as it relates to ones self is pretty complex. I am quite happy to cease posting my thoughts & views if they are harmfull to anybody's game. It was done with the intention of trying to advance members knowledge of the golfswing. I realise that there are many friendships & respect that have been built up over a long period of time on this forum and I honour that.

Scottt
11th March 2009, 08:36 AM
I think I've given you the wrong idea. I don't want you to stop, it just amazes me that such complex ideas and terms are necessary, but they are used by so many that clearly they are the best way forward for some people.

I feel like for many people, significant improvement is hindered by an inability to understand most instruction. And it's not your dislexia, your style is typical of what I'd term scientific instruction.

What is linear weight transfer? How do you load your leg? How do the hips hinge? I just feel there has to be easier terms that would make that drill more accessible.

Sydney Hacker
11th March 2009, 08:38 AM
I think I've given you the wrong idea. I don't want you to stop, it just amazes me that such complex ideas and terms are necessary, but they are used by so many that clearly they are the best way forward for some people.

I feel like for many people, significant improvement is hindered by an inability to understand most instruction. And it's not your dislexia, your style is typical of what I'd term scientific instruction.

What is linear weight transfer? How do you load your leg? How do the hips hinge? I just feel there has to be easier terms that would make that drill more accessible.

I guess that is a mark of a good teacher, being able to communicate what they are trying to say/teach to a wide variety of people.

One man likes to be told things in technical terms another likes to be shown how to do something and then replicate it.

Scottt
11th March 2009, 08:42 AM
Very true SH.

I like the old maxim: tell me and I will hear; show me and I will see; but let me, and then I will know.

henno
11th March 2009, 08:45 AM
That is one thing that really bothers me about judging of teachers. People automatically assume that you need to be the best in your field to be a great teacher. This is simply not true.

Just like a good English teacher does not need to be the world's greatest author, a golf teacher does not really need to be a scratch-or-better golfer. So many people are judged as a teacher on their individual skill, when their real ability is how well they can communicate and teach others.

Sure, there is a basic level of proficiency required. But beyond that level, their standing in world rankings generally will have little to do with their ability to teach. (And once again, I am not simply talking about golf here.)

Scottt
11th March 2009, 08:48 AM
True, Henno. Any teacher's knowledge is only as good as their ability to communicate it.

kwantfm
11th March 2009, 08:56 AM
I definitely get a lot out of everything that Razaar posts. But then I tend towards the technical in all aspects of life.

Razaar... your thoughts are appreciated. Please keep 'em coming!

Iain
11th March 2009, 08:58 AM
Virge,

Why do you want to teach someone weight transfer? Why not teach them everything else and let the transfer take care of itself??

razaar
11th March 2009, 08:59 AM
I'm sorry Scottt for misunderstanding. Many golfers who play try to imitate the swings of good players. Others take lessons and are directed to perform in a certain way with minimal explanation and come away very confused. Many good players have no idea how their swing works and most don't want to know. Others are never happy and are always searching for that missing element or insight that will transform their game. This list could go on forever. The difficulty explaining the golfswing in writing (for me ) is explaining technique and feelings of something that takes less than 2 seconds to perform. As for the "scientific" approach...it is useful to know when it comes to watching the tour players swing a club, so one can see how it is applied.

Jarro
11th March 2009, 09:21 AM
Virge,

Why do you want to teach someone weight transfer? Why not teach them everything else and let the transfer take care of itself??

I thought that was what he was implying ?

Correct turn + correct angles = proper weight transfer :-s

Iain
11th March 2009, 09:57 AM
Oh, is he?? :oops:

oobsadd2
11th March 2009, 11:29 AM
That is one thing that really bothers me about judging of teachers. People automatically assume that you need to be the best in your field to be a great teacher. This is simply not true.

Just like a good English teacher does not need to be the world's greatest author, a golf teacher does not really need to be a scratch-or-better golfer. So many people are judged as a teacher on their individual skill, when their real ability is how well they can communicate and teach others.


Reminds me of a saying..
Those that cant do teach.... and those that cant teach,
teach teachers.

sorry Scottt, Henno should that have had quote marks ?

Scottt
11th March 2009, 05:38 PM
I always tell my PE teacher mates: those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, teach phys ed :lol:

virge666
11th March 2009, 07:52 PM
I always tell my PE teacher mates: those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, teach phys ed :lol:

That was my one at school. :)

I like that golf offers so much to so many people, from architecture to equipment to design to mechanics to bio mechanics to green keeping. It is a bloody sensational game.

But I have the same problem with technicals in golf that I do in the computer industry. There are thousands and I mean THOUSANDS who can do technical stuff. There are thousands that can explain what they are doing in a technical way, but there are very few people who can communicate a technical issue without using jargon.

Anyone can regurgitate stuff they read in a book, whether they understand it or not. But if I want to explain it to a 10 year old, they are just lost for words and THAT is the problem.

Personally, i don't like to use jargon or technical terms, most people here are midmarkers or non technical people. But if I do - flame me.

Weight Shift

Weight shift is just too hard to explain. There are 2 forces at work, your upper body rotating and lower half holding that rotation. Add to this that most people think that the weigth shift means MOVE your body weight onto your right foot and it just confuses the shit out people. So we just ignore it and teach people how to turn . . . and weight shift takes care of itself.

If a student want to press the issue. I just ask them to watch TV and all the slow mo shots we see and to see for themselves what the players right hip is doing - is it sliding ?

If they want to feel the weight shift, that is also easy to do.

-Stand in a golfing posture with a straight back, elbows hanging straight down and forearms level to the ground. Think Johnny Wilkinson.
-Whilst keeping your posture and your hips level, push you left arm forward and pull you right elbow back. You can move your right hip back as well - up to you - you will still feel the effect.

You will feel the right leg load and even though you have not slided you will feel as if some of your weight has moved to the right side.

You will see me do this on my last video just before I hit the front on shot. Not exact, but you get the idea. :)

lastly - weigth shift vid I did ages ago . . .

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/WeightShift.avi

Enjoy

virge666
11th March 2009, 07:59 PM
To answer the other questions...

The mats at most facilities are rubbish - can't beat grass, but ti needs to be good grass and the grass at Narrabeen is shite. That being said - I don't mind that new spongy stuff, but it does grab the club a lot. prefer the spiky stuff in the vid.

yes - Screw the weight shift . . . Setup, Turn and the educate the hands. In other words grab the rubber end of the club, setup properly, learn to release the club.

Thank for the early critique - the hip action is a bit wobbly. :)

Razaar, I love your definitions and if you had the right student - they would be tops, but I was looking for something I can take to a clinic.

Jarro, driver swings up on Thursday night.

rebjon
11th March 2009, 08:14 PM
Aldo so when are we going to QLD ????

virge666
11th March 2009, 08:19 PM
Aldo so when are we going to QLD ????


Probably quicker going to a Singapore RSS school ????

adlo
11th March 2009, 09:11 PM
Aldo so when are we going to QLD ????

Dunno. Messed around with a few things today on course and will chat to you about it Saturday.

GE type swing feels very stable especially with the irons. Not so sure about the rest.

razaar
11th March 2009, 10:01 PM
Virge...looked at your vid on weight shift. The thing that struck me was both models represent approx. .005% of golfers. Most people who play the game wouldn't get anywhere close to those positions because their core muscles and hip flexors/ hamstrings haven't the strength or flexibility. How do you explain the weight shift and turn to golfers who can't get into those positions?

markTHEblake
11th March 2009, 11:49 PM
The mats at most facilities are rubbish - can't beat grass, but ti needs to be good grass and the grass at Narrabeen is shite.

As is most ranges - i prefer the matts as it is gives me a more stable footing.

Jarro
12th March 2009, 07:13 AM
GE type swing feels very stable especially with the irons.

It does doesn't it 8)

virge666
12th March 2009, 09:22 AM
How do you explain the weight shift and turn to golfers who can't get into those positions?

Bloody great Question, and i don't know if I can answer it completely. I have asked a few people this especially in the USA where the few teaching courses I did had quite a few . . . ummm . . . large people. Also - what about older guys who haven't got the flexability... or the strength they use to have.

The answer I got in the USA was to "Educate the hands", so there idea is to teach lag and work from there. Also a lot of right shoulder and "plane" work going on here. Another said go deeper back with the right hip, another said go to the gym. :shock:

The Edwin way from my knowledge is to simply create angles using your body and arms and release the club head with your body. If you maintain the angles - you can still compress the ball. I have seen children, men and women of all ages and one poor old bloke with a muscle wasting disease hit balls using Edwin's method, it was pretty cool.

Both do the same job in getting the body in a good position to allow the hands to release properly, and both had the bump/slide/brace/sit down to start the downswing.

Either way - we are teaching turn and hand action. Weight shift will take care of itself. Don't care about weight shift.

Posture and Turn . . .

sms316
12th March 2009, 09:25 AM
Is teaching a sway an option?

For the record - I'm not a rap on the Edwin method. I've seen some really good golfers get really screwed up swinging like that. They've all become snaphookaholics.

virge666
12th March 2009, 09:46 AM
Is teaching a sway an option?

They've all become snaphookaholics.

No, not unless you want to hit it softer. ;)

1. You need to hit down on the ball.
2. You need lag in either swing.
3. If you sway on the backswing - you have to sway on the downswing to get back to the ball.
4. This moves the centre of your swing.
5. If you move the center - this slows the swing. Also requires timing to hit it correctly. Also brings pull cuts, slices, high fades and smoothered shots into play.

---

As for snap-a-holics, me too. Lonard another, Paul Gow another. But we aren't doing it properly. I really struggle with this - especially under pressure.

My smaller muscles get quicker and larger muscles slow down. i don't bump on the downswing and my hands rotate the clubface over too quickly and we are going left. i don't think i have ever faded the ball over the last 3 or 4 holes. :)

It is also because before we all had the Edwin swings we ALL use to rotate our hands over VERY agressively through impact. With this swing, it is a body release - so the hands are way more passive. it is more about arm speed than hand speed.

Add pressure and it all can turn to shit. Has many times. But that is my fault not the swing pattern, though I have been known to call Gary various body parts. :)

sms316
12th March 2009, 09:57 AM
Perhaps I am being far too simple about this, but I firmly believe that golf is a simple game, made difficult by the people who play it.

I really struggle to believe that the Edwin method has an overwhelming success rate with quality golfers, looking for that extra result. Your post has just made me realise why. I can't think of anything more difficult than attempting to just throw out an action that comes naturally, and has been rehearsed hundreds of thousands of times.

It reminds me a little of when Faldo tore his swing apart in the mid-eighties and came back a better golfer. I reckon he did the world a disservice in a way, as many others have ripped their games to shreds and haven't come back as half the golfer they were. How much time should one be prepared to tolerate their game going to shit, with a mystical carrot of greatness dangling in front of them?

At least Faldo remodeld his swing with characteristics which were natural. Doing something so far removed from the norm is very dangerous territory.

virge666
12th March 2009, 11:42 AM
Your post has just made me realise why. I can't think of anything more difficult than attempting to just throw out an action that comes naturally, and has been rehearsed hundreds of thousands of times.


Two probs . .

1 - What is natural ? The golf swing - your golf swing isn't natural. it never has been, it is not like throwing a ball or swinging a baseball bat or hitting a tennis ball. It is something you have learned and ingrained over the years. What makes it un-natural is the fact you are bent over at the hips swinging out to the left. There is NOTHING else we do like this.

2 - I find the Edwin swing easier. I can do both, and I can play both ways easily in the low single figures. I just find the RSS easier to repeat, less wear and tear on the body and has way better distance control than I had with pulling my right side through. The ball makes a better sound too.

I find it easier to teach as I can relate it to other sports. A tennis or squash forehand, leg glance in cricket, throwing a ball or javelin or discus. All of these sports use the hips to create leverage instead of using it to generate speed.

This is why I chose it as my swing pattern.

We shouldn't call it an Edwin swing - cause there are heaps of people out there who swing it this way. Think of it as a body release vs hands release. Paul Casey is a right sided swing but doesn't look like he is killing a cat in a phone booth. All those swings you see on tour where the club releases up in front of their chest instead of around over their shoulder. They are ALL right sided swings.

Once you get the idea that the RSS is not locking out your left hip and jamming down on the ball - you will find that it is way simpler than clearing your hips and timing your hand rotation.

We all screw it up and there are always stories of people trying something and failing. Leadbetter and Charles Howell is one that comes to mind immediately. Paul Gow and Gary Edwin, Mickelson and Harmon will be annother.

It is up to you and what suits you. but once you make this choice - make the commitment, I also know heaps of guys winghing about GE, "I did it for 3 months and didn't like it" kind of stuff. There are also the mad zealots that can't stop telling you how good it is. I hope I am somewhere in the middle.

It is like all the Mac vs PC rubbish, pick a way and hit the friggin ball.

I love your Avatar too.

Toolish
12th March 2009, 01:00 PM
We all screw it up and there are always stories of people trying something and failing. Leadbetter and anyone other than Faldo is one that comes to mind immediately.

fixed :D

virge666
12th March 2009, 01:13 PM
fixed :D


Fantastic to have an Editor available.

Top Notch job. :smt023

razaar
12th March 2009, 01:19 PM
Virge... you asked in an earlier post how would I teach a person the head still method (maybe not in those words ). Todays Tats game at Indro GC was cancelled so I spent some time on the practice fairway mulling over this question. Actually it proved to be a welcome break from my usual practic seasons and I actually learnt something or remembered something that we used to practice in the 80s.

Scottt, I will try very hard not to use words that might alienate me but sometimes there is no other way to say it.

What I came up with revolves around the plane and address position.

Address: Ensure the right shoulder is lower than the left to compensate for the right hand being below the left hand. The arms form a triangle and it is the centre of this triangle ( point between the clavical bones) at the base of the neck on which to focus. Imagine a plumbbob suspended vertically from this point, which should point to a spot on a line between the balls of the feet (or thereabouts) if your butt is held high & not sagging.
If you have wide shoulders this point will be more towards your right foot than somebody with narrow shoulders. The turn is made around this vertical line, it doesn't matter if it is slightly to the right of the line but both turns must not cross the line to the left until the ball has been struck. The head only comes into the act on the forward turn to act as a brace to stop the centre swaying to the left.

Plane: The plane of the swing has its radius from the ball to the same point at the base of the neck. Think of this radius as a spoke in a large wheel on which the clubhead will travel around the spine. It doesn't really do this but it is a good image to have in your mind on the backswing and through swing. Beginners should be encouraged to feel something solid connecting both points (the hands have nothing to do with this). Better golfers will need to rotate the forearms (clockwise) on the backswing just enough that the right elbow/forearm is dead vertical; and rotate forearms (anticlockwise) on the through swing so the left forearm/elbow is vertical.
Advanced golfers are more focused on the plane past the ball position because it is this section of the swing which determines where the clubface is pointing through the swing.

That was my 45 minutes on the practice fairway.

virge666
12th March 2009, 03:03 PM
That was my 45 minutes on the practice fairway.

Sensational mate - Technical enough for a teacher and easy to demonstrate.

Absolute cracker !!

So now we have the turn done in a couple of drills... how about the seperation on the downswing ?

razaar
12th March 2009, 03:36 PM
No need...the separation moves are for the power swings. SMS was right about the hooking problem with the RSS. This swing creates lots of torque for those who perform it well, consequently the old method of release with the hands will not work with this technique. The right wrist has to remain flexed at and past impact to guard against a hook. It is best to set flex in the right wrist at address and return to this flex through impact. I will post a couple of drills with a baseball bat which will help with the "stretch shorting cycle" near impact.

The other problem is the tightness of the coil can lead some players to slide a bit with the hips instead of thrusting back with the left leg to pull the left hip directly behind. This is done simultaneously with separating the left shoulder from above the chin. A good coil has the left shoulder covering the chin not under it. The right shoulder and right leg stay still until activated by the unwinding of the thigh and torso muscles.

Mate I have not seen or read anything on the RSS from people who teach this technique so my comments may not be relevant.

virge666
12th March 2009, 03:56 PM
Mate I have not seen or read anything on the RSS from people who teach this technique so my comments may not be relevant.


Raz,

You ideas are very correct in my books. Especially the role of the right wrist... It is hard for people to trust this action with out thinking it is going miles right, so they rotate the wrists. = snap a holics.

razaar
12th March 2009, 04:42 PM
Drill to activate the stretch-shortening cycle:


Stand in an upright position with a baseball bat or weighted club.
Start with the bat slightly in front of a level impact position, about waist high.
Move the bat as fast as possible in a backwards direction.
As soon as the bat moves beyond the impact point, stop it from moving any further and reverse direction.
Do 10 to 12 reps.
Tips:

you can do this in both directions.
It is important not to substitute with other parts of the body.

goonie
12th March 2009, 05:00 PM
That is one thing that really bothers me about judging of teachers. People automatically assume that you need to be the best in your field to be a great teacher. This is simply not true.

Just like a good English teacher does not need to be the world's greatest author, a golf teacher does not really need to be a scratch-or-better golfer. So many people are judged as a teacher on their individual skill, when their real ability is how well they can communicate and teach others.

Sure, there is a basic level of proficiency required. But beyond that level, their standing in world rankings generally will have little to do with their ability to teach. (And once again, I am not simply talking about golf here.)

I agree that people who had to work harder to be good at something are quite often better at teaching something than someone that is a natural, just look at some of the NRL coaches for example, some of them wern't the best or most naturally talented players, but I bet they had to work hard to get to the level they did, and therefore developed a good understanding of the game and have since made good coaches.

Hack and Slash
12th March 2009, 06:53 PM
Hey Virge,

I notice Brad Lamb pretty much picks it clean off the grass in all the clips

I've seen. Is this just unique to him or is it due to the RSS?

virge666
12th March 2009, 09:33 PM
Jarro, as promised.

Driver Swings gents. Same drill - same swing. No problem with the woods.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Driver120309.wmv

Hack and slash - big divots come from steep swings. Think Sergio and Allenby, very aggressive move down on the ball - this give the deep divot. The RSS is a pretty shallow angle into the ball as there is not much leg action on the downswing.

Jarro
12th March 2009, 09:51 PM
Thanks Virge ...

.. swing looks good 8)

virge666
12th March 2009, 10:15 PM
Thanks Virge ...

.. swing looks good 8)


It will be crap again by the time the champs come along !!!

:)

Jarro
13th March 2009, 05:05 AM
It will be crap again by the time the champs come along !!!

:)

Yeah right, along with everyone elses :lol:

dan
13th March 2009, 09:48 AM
http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Driver120309.wmv

Were you swinging faster on the last two? You look quicker from behind.

razaar
13th March 2009, 10:40 AM
It will be crap again by the time the champs come along !!!

:)
Why...should be better by the time we have had our way with you.:lol:
I can see a big improvement in your turn back into the ball and beyond, getting that left hip back behind you is the key provided it is done with some resistance from the right side at the start to give some speed to the right side when it finally comes in. That is the separation factor.

oobsadd2
13th March 2009, 10:57 AM
Were you swinging faster on the last two? You look quicker from behind.

Also go to horozontal at the top of the backswing for the last one. Must have been his one down playn the last swing.:D

virge666
13th March 2009, 11:02 AM
Jarro,

It must be the alcohol. Sunday was a hard hard day. I am so looking forward to this years shindig.

---
and Dan - yeah the last one was a bit of a thumper, i had been practicing hitting 6i and 8i 100m for about an hour working on my right arm and I wanted to loosen up a bit. The two front and 1st back are pretty much the same though.
---

Cheers Razaar, it is amazing what an hour of pitching will do for you full swing.
---

Oobs

I am still a little long and crossed up at the top.. once I get the right arm sorted - it will look a lot better

virge666
13th March 2009, 11:07 AM
getting that left hip back behind you is the key provided it is done with some resistance from the right side at the start to give some speed to the right side when it finally comes in. That is the separation factor.

Please explain this more . . .

razaar
13th March 2009, 04:40 PM
Please explain this more . . .
Your swing (the ones I have seen so far) have the shoulders turning against a lower body that hasn't moved from the waist down during the backswing. If this is the case then there is no or minimal shifting of weight in the backswing from left to right; so there is no need to shift weight from right to left to start the downswing. If you persist with this swing your first lower body move will need to be a thrusting back of the left thigh to turn the left hip behind you to kick off the rotation. If you don't provide resistance in the right leg and hip you will end up with spinning hips and no torque to activate the higher torso muscles. The right shoulder is held for a simiar reason, spinning shoulders (the classic beginners mistake). Also its a three horse race to get back to the ball from the top between the clubhead, the hands and the right shoulder, which none of them should win. There is a fourth ,the hips, which you have scratched.
If I was your swing advisor, I would suggest that you turn into the backswing with the torso muscles to get the turn of the spine from the bend in the hips up not from waist up. Not only will it distribute the load along the full length of the spine and give you a bigger and better turn and more time, it will store more potential energy to release in the downswing. Your biggest danger with your present swing is an underturn and too much load on the spine in the region of the shoulder blades; which has the potential for injury later on. It is something to consider.

markTHEblake
13th March 2009, 10:40 PM
Flushing it. When are you turning pro?

Sydney Hacker
13th March 2009, 10:43 PM
I know it has been said in here before, but I thought golf was an easy game before I read this thread ! God knows what I will be thinking about on the first now.

Scottt
13th March 2009, 10:48 PM
It is SH. Hit it, find it, hit it again...

Can you imagine Razaar teaching a 10yo that way :lol:

zigwah
14th March 2009, 12:11 AM
i would rather be taught in minute detail how to do something, preferable to being told one thing over and over.

I was told by my parents drugs are bad, but there was never really any explanation as to why drugs are bad, so when one trys drugs after such explantions, the obvious connclusion is, what the **** are they on about, this is awsome.

A short summation of a long story but i think it is relevant.

Scottt
14th March 2009, 12:19 AM
i would rather be taught in minute detail how to do something, preferable to being told one thing over and over.

I was told by my parents drugs are bad, but there was never really any explanation as to why drugs are bad, so when one trys drugs after such explantions, the obvious connclusion is, what the **** are they on about, this is awsome.

A short summation of a long story but i think it is relevant.

WTF? How does that pertain to the golf swing?

zigwah
14th March 2009, 12:22 AM
It speaks volumes about learning my friend.

You never did tell me how old you were Scottt.

zigwah
14th March 2009, 12:37 AM
Thats what i thought.

zigwah
14th March 2009, 12:41 AM
Can't help yourself, can ya? I think you have a hard on for me pal.

Scottt
14th March 2009, 12:41 AM
What's what you thought? Who are you talking to? The voices in your head have to register before they can post.

I'm 26.

How does your drug story pertain to the golf swing?

zigwah
14th March 2009, 12:46 AM
Have a think about it, Scottt, It's not that much of a stretch.

But instead of asking for more information, you chose to try and ridicule. Now that is either here nor there, for you, but it speaks volumes for your capacity to take in something new, no matter how it has been imparted.

And it isnt a story, it is real life and imho has relevevence in not only teaching the golf swing but life lessons in general.

Scottt
14th March 2009, 12:48 AM
I asked how it pertained to the golf swing. How is that not asking for more information?

What is the equivilent here to "drugs are bad". Please, flesh out your concept. I'm all ears.

zigwah
14th March 2009, 01:23 AM
It means, no matter how many time someone chooses to tell me to keep my head still, does not mean that lesson will be imparted, i may try to do this, but only so many times without explanation.

How my drug story pertains to this, i look at it this way. My parents did the best that they could for me and my brothers in the best way that hey knew how, but even though they knew drugs were bad they didn't impart that knowledge, from a perspective of actual knowledge, or understanding.

I have alway thought from my teenage years that you can never claim to know what you are talking about unless you can impart your knowledge so anyone can understand it.

So how the golf swing has anything to do with my drug story is this. I have told my chlidren, who btw are 1, 13, 15 and 15, the one year old has not recieived the talk, butr i have told the other children that my parents always told my brother and i, that drugs were bad, no other explanation than that they were bad. However i have found out sincr that they indeed they are truly bad, I have not imparted my knowledge that way. I chose to tell them everything about my past and why i know drugs are bad. Which is that why people may tell you they are bad, most times you first experience with drugs may be a good one, and this is why young people who are told only that drugs are bad or not much more than this, when this happens they think wtf are my parents on about, they're just old fuddy duddies. Now i chose to tell my children everything, and i mean everything, and Scottt you should take note at my next blah blah blah. I told my children that everyone tells us how bad drugs are but they don't tell us how good they can make us feel, which i was never told. No one tells you how everyone at the start looks like they are having fun, but that isn't the problem, the problem is when the fun goes away and it is just becomes a part of life, and although you may not know it, you are being controlled by the drug and not by what you would normally have thought in previous situations.

How this pertains to the the golf swing i think is this, people take up golf to have fun, and by most people i dont mean the kid who practices most days on the back oval in a play off with the Seve or the Shark, your ordinarly guy or gal who takes it up to have fun and then realises that it's not that easy to do it like you see on telly.

So people look at the pro's and i use the term lightly, because pros that are teaching the golf swing to everyday guys like you and i scott, are not setting the the golf world alight, and if they were they would be playing on a circuit other than the local pro am curcuit, they would be playing and making a living from that or teaching pro's.

Now not to make light of people teaching mere choppers there is a market there, but the teaching abilities are spread as far and wide as they are in any profession. I spent a long time doing what i was told, where i was told, and how i was told.

This is not they key, if i was trying to teach my children about teaching other people, i would say this, no one wants to be beaten over the head, for asking questions. The number one thing to remember with people is that everyone, no matter who they are like to think they are important, and have something to offer, no matter what the situation is.

So no matter what the knowledge that is being imparted, it does the teacher no good saying what you are doing wrong with no explantion or encouragement is pointless.

So, i guess what i am trying to say is, that we all learn different ways, and you can have all the knowledge in the world, but it don't mean shit unless you can impart that knowledge to a wide variety of people, not just the people that will take what you are saying as gospel, but working our how, the person you are teaching learns.

All this may seem long winded and poor english and bullshit, but i am confident that in there somewhere there is something we can all learn from.

zigwah
14th March 2009, 01:43 AM
Thought you were all ears?

Zig out

Scottt
14th March 2009, 01:52 AM
I am also gainfully employed and required to work sometimes.

What you say re: how you've taught your kids about drugs sounds great, but I still don't see how it related to teaching the golf swing. I'm not saying it doesn't, I just don't see it.

razaar
14th March 2009, 05:24 AM
I know it has been said in here before, but I thought golf was an easy game before I read this thread ! God knows what I will be thinking about on the first now.
Post 186# is the real guts of the golf swing. If you can stay centred , return the club on plane through impact with a free flowing swing you will have a very good golf swing. Just concentrate on doing those two things your way and you will be fine. This thread is about how Virge does them his way.:)

PeteyD
14th March 2009, 02:32 PM
It is obvious that drugs are bad, just read Zigs posts. They have done something to him.

virge666
14th March 2009, 04:37 PM
Just concentrate on doing those two things your way and you will be fine. This thread is about how Virge does them his way.:)

Exactly, what the hell happened up there... Scott and Zig got all philosophical. Please stop that. Check your vagina at the door.

Back to Raz, been reading your post over and over again.

Have the shoulders turning against a lower body that hasn't moved from the waist down during the back swing.

My right hip goes back quite a bit . . . not sure what you mean here.

If this is the case then there is no or minimal shifting of weight in the back swing from left to right; so there is no need to shift weight from right to left to start the downswing.

Yes there is as that is how I get leverage on the downswing. I have too much right to left weight shift IMHO in my older swing but I think it is getting way better.

If you persist with this swing your first lower body move will need to be a thrusting back of the left thigh to turn the left hip behind you to kick off the rotation.

That is pretty much against what I have been taught. I start the downswing with a bump into my left side and then I let my arms drop and uncock the left wrist, I then rotate the body around my left hip... I don't want to clear my left hip at all. Left hip goes forward on the back swing and back on the down swing, which is totally different to a left sided swing.

If I was your swing adviser, I would suggest that you turn into the back swing with the torso muscles to get the turn of the spine from the bend in the hips up not from waist up.

I try to get my hips to go back and forth my shoulders to go around. You make is sound like there is no hip movement at all which is not correct at all.

Your thoughts...

PS: Blakey - too old, too small and too married. :)

virge666
14th March 2009, 04:45 PM
I know it has been said in here before, but I thought golf was an easy game before I read this thread ! God knows what I will be thinking about on the first now.


What makes you think it is ?

Are you off a scratch handicap ?

razaar
14th March 2009, 05:49 PM
Sorry mate if I got your turn wrong, looked like that to me when I looked at the vid (several times). Couldn't see that right hip moving much at all, looked just like a shoulder turn and thats all. If you have turned fully against the hips you will feel a squeeze in the groin (right side) similar to holding a golf ball there. You are saying weight has moved over to the right leg in the backswing?

If that is so then you have turned your left side into a braced right side; the downswing is pulling the left side away from a braced right side at the start of the downswing. The left leg, left hip, left shoulder (arms drop increasing the distance between the hands and right shoulder) move away from their opposites which momentarily resist being pulled from their position at the top. I think we are saying the same thing but explaining it in different contexts. Actually that is where the power in the swing comes from, pulling against something that is resisting. If there is no resistance to pull against there is no power.

On the backswing your left leg will have moved forward, it has to be cleared pretty quick once the downswing has begun to make room for the hands and to turn the hips to square up the clubface which is approaching the ball from the inside at speed. The hips have to be turned almost 45 degrees to target to get the clubhead, hands and right shoulder to whip in together square to the target with the clubhead still accelerating past the ball position. So that thrust back into the left heel is required to create the torque for the above to happen. It is something that is common to all power swings.

Had to amend this several times, too many pots after golf.:)

razaar
16th March 2009, 03:57 AM
Virge..here are a couple of arm acceleration drills to promote awareness of the body / arm connection in the forward swing.

Drill 1.

Stand upright and hold your arms straight out in front of your chest with your palms together.
Create a solid foundation; isolate the muscles by resisting rotation of the hips.
Rotate the upper body, shoulders & arms in a clockwise direction (hips do not move).
Reaching a maximum rotation position, accelerate the body in a counter clockwise direction.
Stop rotation in the starting position (neutral position).
Tips

Do this movement at a slow to moderate speed.
Feel the responsive acceleration of the arms as the larger muscles sequentially pass energy from the lower body power base, through the core muscles, to the upper body and arms.
Drill 2.
Steps 1 to 5 as above
6. Release hips to follow through.

Tips

Do not release hips until a neutral alignment is obtained.
Drill 3.

Steps 1 to 4 as above.
5. Rotate hips to 45 degrees past the neutral position with arms & shoulders in neutral posion and hold.
6. Release shoulders to follow through.

These drills will give your pupils an awareness of how the lower body links with the upper body to generate power.:)

virge666
16th March 2009, 03:09 PM
Cheers Razaar - I will have a re-read and a play.

u8ergolfer
19th March 2009, 08:25 PM
Very, Very impressed with the work toward the Right Side Virge.. impressed...:smt038

virge666
14th August 2009, 09:56 AM
If anyone has access to Gaz's website - you will see a new video up their called Pamp's fold up.

This little video has caused me to make two changes to the swing. I will pop a video later. The old faults are coming back in.

Yossarian
2nd September 2009, 09:50 PM
Got a lot out of this thread, thanks to everyone who has posted. Even that scottt/zigwah battle.

Virge your swing looks awesome.

virge666
3rd September 2009, 08:05 PM
Got a lot out of this thread, thanks to everyone who has posted. Even that scottt/zigwah battle.

Virge your swing looks awesome.

Wait till you see Tomsen's... With the game on Saturday... I will do shots of everyone using my new 500 frames per second camera.

haysey
3rd September 2009, 08:10 PM
Can we get one of me doing the shimmy? Just to make Jarro happy:mrgreen:

Courty
3rd September 2009, 08:15 PM
Wait till you see Tomsen's...

Don't give him a headswell. ;)


I will do shots of everyone using my new 500 frames per second camera.

Uh-oh. :oops:

Please don't, I'm in denial. :smt087

haysey
3rd September 2009, 08:19 PM
Uh-oh. :oops:

Please don't, I'm in denial. :smt087


If I'm gonna do it. For damn sure you are....although I'm not sure the forum software could handle my swing in 500 frames per second:oops:

PeteyD
3rd September 2009, 08:36 PM
Is the camera mega wide angle?

haysey
3rd September 2009, 08:40 PM
Virge will have to film from the next fairway over;)

virge666
3rd September 2009, 08:47 PM
If Haysey is up for it - I am happy to spend some time and sort out the seven different body moves he has on the backswing.

The funny bit is that his practice swing is sensational - but stick a ball in the way and the only thing that doesn't move it his bowels.

I may have to abbreviate Courty's swing.. the 27 second backswing takes up about 200MB by itself.

:)

Courty
3rd September 2009, 08:50 PM
If Haysey is up for it - I am happy to spend some time and sort out the seven different body moves he has on the backswing.

The funny bit is that his practice swing is sensational - but stick a ball in the way and the only thing that doesn't move it his bowels.

:lol:


I may have to abbreviate Courty's swing.. the 27 second backswing takes up about 200MB by itself.

:-s

PeteyD
3rd September 2009, 08:53 PM
the only thing that doesn't move it his bowels

Are you sure about that?

razaar
16th September 2009, 12:37 PM
Nice piece of computer work with your swing in PP FNQ mate. Your comments on the vid. indicated that you may be searching for a feeling....it is so damn hard trying to sort out our own golf swings by ourselves. Being a tall person you should be able to get a full shoulder turn with the feeling that the feet and lower body hasn't moved; it does of course but the feeling is that it doesn't. If you can't get this feeling then your core muscles are not fully relaxed. Any tightness in the abs, lower back & obliques will engage the hips too early pulling that left leg inwards and rolling the left foot. I think the feeling you want at the top of the backswing is to have both feet planted firmly on the ground for the forward swing. I don't and never have liked the bump or lateral move that the swing guru's advocate, particularly in taller golfers. My preference for me is to have the feeling of pulling the left hip directly behind me to start the downswing which has an element of lateral movement as a result of shifting the weight to the left leg. These are a few ideas to throw into the mix of things to work on.

zigwah
16th September 2009, 04:52 PM
Nice piece of computer work with your swing in PP FNQ mate. Your comments on the vid. indicated that you may be searching for a feeling....it is so damn hard trying to sort out our own golf swings by ourselves. Being a tall person you should be able to get a full shoulder turn with the feeling that the feet and lower body hasn't moved; it does of course but the feeling is that it doesn't. If you can't get this feeling then your core muscles are not fully relaxed. Any tightness in the abs, lower back & obliques will engage the hips too early pulling that left leg inwards and rolling the left foot. I think the feeling you want at the top of the backswing is to have both feet planted firmly on the ground for the forward swing. I don't and never have liked the bump or lateral move that the swing guru's advocate, particularly in taller golfers. My preference for me is to have the feeling of pulling the left hip directly behind me to start the downswing which has an element of lateral movement as a result of shifting the weight to the left leg. These are a few ideas to throw into the mix of things to work on.


Been thinking about the bump v's latteral shift of weight back to the left hand side most of the day.

What i came up with was that with less feeling of hip turn on the backswing, you get more of a feeling of a strong coil, making the weight shift feel more like a bump than a weight shift. Does that make sense at all.

I haven't put it into practice yet, but the practice swings feel a lot different and a lot more powerful with the "feeling of restricting the hips" just hoping i can do it for 9 holes :neutral:.

markTHEblake
16th September 2009, 05:22 PM
Nice piece of computer work with your swing in PP FNQ mate.

The swing was that smooth I thought i was looking at Tom Weiskopf.

virge666
16th September 2009, 07:32 PM
My preference for me is to have the feeling of pulling the left hip directly behind me to start the downswing which has an element of lateral movement as a result of shifting the weight to the left leg. These are a few ideas to throw into the mix of things to work on.

The lateral bump is meant to load the arms for the change of direction - much like you left knee staying flexed and turning back towards the target.

I will try your way to see if I can get some feeling - but I would like to get my right shoulder to help out an stop being such a pussy.



I haven't put it into practice yet, but the practice swings feel a lot different and a lot more powerful with the "feeling of restricting the hips" just hoping i can do it for 9 holes :neutral:.

Sounds good - go for it...


The swing was that smooth I thought i was looking at Tom Weiskopf.

I have a new camera that does up to 1000fps on the video capture. he problem is the quality is not that good. So I sort of keep it at 200 or 400 fps, but it does the job - You can even see how Tomsen rotates his right hand a bit too early OR his body is too far behind on the downswing.

Pretty cool piece of kit - I shall bring it up to the Champs.

razaar
16th September 2009, 08:40 PM
The lateral bump is meant to load the arms for the change of direction - much like you left knee staying flexed and turning back towards the target.

I will try your way to see if I can get some feeling - but I would like to get my right shoulder to help out an stop being such a pussy.

When I try the lateral shift all I seem to get is slack creeping in to the through swing, which shows up later when the shoulders are called upon. There is no chance of slack rearing its ugly head when the left hip is pulled rearwards.

Another point to consider is that the hips move leftwards during the backswing, the more hip turn the more they move towards the left heel. It doesn't make sense to me to consciously move them further left where they will be on the outside of the left heel and all the potential problems that can cause. Once the downswing has begun, there's no changing it, unlike the backswing.

henno
16th September 2009, 08:40 PM
Pretty cool piece of kit - I shall bring it up to the Champs.

I request a 1000fps slow-mo of SMS in full flight.

http://imgur.com/SKvHS.gif

zigwah
16th September 2009, 08:54 PM
When I try the lateral shift all I seem to get is slack creeping in to the through swing, which shows up later when the shoulders are called upon. There is no chance of slack rearing its ugly head when the left hip is pulled rearwards.

Another point to consider is that the hips move leftwards during the backswing, the more hip turn the more they move towards the left heel. It doesn't make sense to me to consciously move them further left where they will be on the outside of the left heel and all the potential problems that can cause. Once the downswing has begun, there's no changing it, unlike the backswing.

I see what your saying Raz, but as i am interpreting what you guys are both saying, it seems both things are there?

"bump" to start the swing, which i can feel and a split second after that, i'm firing my hips as fast as i can.

When you talk about the hips moving laterally during the backswing, is this the same as Hogan did?

razaar
17th September 2009, 12:38 AM
When you talk about the hips moving laterally during the backswing, is this the same as Hogan did?
When the hips turn during the backswing they shift towards the left heel. It's not a lateral move Zig. Yes Hogan did it and his action was very pronounced. He also had a definite lateral move to start the throughswing. I suspect the reason for that was he played the ball well forward in his stance and he had wide hips for his build. Hogan being left handed was extremely strong in his left side as can be seen by the amount of lag he generated in his swing. It certainly wasn't all from a tight coil or strong legs because they were tightly strapped from ankle to groin when he competed for years after his accident.

sms316
17th September 2009, 04:05 AM
I request a 1000fps slow-mo of SMS in full flight.

http://imgur.com/SKvHS.gif

You might have just cost yourself that promised 3am "tap on the shoulder".
:evil:

PeteyD
17th September 2009, 05:18 AM
It's like looking at a lava lamp. Get SMS and DC on the range, in the same shot!

zigwah
17th September 2009, 07:26 AM
When the hips turn during the backswing they shift towards the left heel. It's not a lateral move Zig. Yes Hogan did it and his action was very pronounced. He also had a definite lateral move to start the throughswing. I suspect the reason for that was he played the ball well forward in his stance and he had wide hips for his build. Hogan being left handed was extremely strong in his left side as can be seen by the amount of lag he generated in his swing. It certainly wasn't all from a tight coil or strong legs because they were tightly strapped from ankle to groin when he competed for years after his accident.

Initially, to start the downswing, isn't this a lateral move or "bump" to the left? before your hips can turn?

So Hogan was the first wearer of skins? :)

razaar
17th September 2009, 07:39 AM
Initially, to start the downswing, isn't this a lateral move or "bump" to the left? before your hips can turn?

So Hogan was the first wearer of skins? :)
It is for Colin Montgomery, but not for those players who start with the left hip slightly forward (to get the upper body tilt at address) and don't have much hip turn. Too much of a lateral movement to the left tilts the body even further, dropping the head and right shoulder in the downswing lowering the swing plane - and if your posture is even slightly slumped you will be hitting the ball with your divot.

Monty has a lateral hip move on the takeaway, so his lateral move to start the downswing is needed if he is to get back his hip angle. His swing is unique on tour in that respect.

zigwah
17th September 2009, 08:17 AM
It is for Colin Montgomery, but not for those players who start with the left hip slightly forward (to get the upper body tilt at address) and don't have much hip turn. Too much of a lateral movement to the left tilts the body even further, dropping the head and right shoulder in the downswing lowering the swing plane - and if your posture is even slightly slumped you will be hitting the ball with your divot.

Monty has a lateral hip move on the takeaway, so his lateral move to start the downswing is needed if he is to get back his hip angle. His swing is unique on tour in that respect.

Interesting Raz, I have found since trying to restrict my hips on the backswing, it is very hard, awkward to have a lot of lateral movement, well it doesn't feel like a lot, during the start of the downswing.

So if i restrict my hip turn on the backswing i feel this is seperating my top from bottom even more and leading to a fuller shoulder turn, but without the overswing, but it now feels like i need to have more of lateral move to start the downswing, a split second before firing the hips.

Doing all this i have found that i will hopefully stop the big chop divot that has crept in to my game Reading what you have written i'm thinking this was caused by too much movement to the left, making my bad shot straight right if i don't swing over the top and a pull left or snap hook if i do?

thanx for the replies

Jarro
8th October 2009, 04:44 PM
Any new vids to share Virge ?

virge666
22nd January 2010, 08:45 AM
I went for my first hit last night since I went to Cairns to play with Haysey, Tomo and Co in August last year. (Sensational couple of days BTW)

It looks like the back operation went well. I can only hit sort of 3/4 shots and spent most of the time doing pitching and posture drills. It was kind of weird going back to the range after not hitting a golf ball for six months. Narrabeen range needs some new mats !

The Staph infection though is still ingrained in there pretty good. I don't have much rotation or store up on the backswing, and I have a shitload of pain after hitting any longish clubs. Pulled everything longer than 5 iron a mile left.

Anyway, 3 more months of 15 pills a day and we should be apples. The doctor has put me on something called Clindamycine.

I must say it is nice to be near a golf club and golfing people again, I did miss it and I guess my short game and pitching will be getting a workout over the coming weeks.

Life is good...ish.