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Jose
29th October 2004, 09:29 AM
Hey guys

Havent posted for a while been busy sorting out work in the USA. Im going to work for the USGA!

Anyway I recently had the chance to go on a launch monitor with my friend who was up here for the long driving champs and stuck around for a while after. The results were interesting to say the least. Im looking for feedback as to other peoples experience.

We were using those yellow range balls so Im not sure if they have a huge effect but I have some crazy spin rates going on. I heard all this talk about spin rates in the 3000 is ideal. Yet mine was always between 4 and 5 thousand rpms? I dont have a choppy action or anything, my swing while not pefect by any means is pretty sound as Ive played off low single figures to scratch for 10 years. Any feed back is appreciated. For the record Im using a 45 inch Bang 450 with a proforce stiff shaft with a D10 swing weight. We didnt receive any advice from the pro as we were simply there to get stats for our driving, got to use it through his long drive contacts.

My average results were a ball speed of around 160-164 mph, average length of around 270 metres, launch angle of 12 to 14 degrees, and ball spin of 4000-5000. My long driving mate was getting 180 mph of ball speed and more on a few occasions and a distance of around 300 metres most of the time. His spin rate was normally around 3000 or less. He reckons hes he could nuke it past Tiger and Hank but after watching Battle at the Bridges on tape im not so sure.

Any ones experieces or knowledge is appreciated

Andrew

Fishman Dan
29th October 2004, 09:46 AM
At the R7 launch day the TaylorMade sales goons were talking optimal about 2800 rpm - on a TM club the best spot to hit is a little above the centre of the face to provide less ball rotation. In the following range-session i can honestly say i connected once (they had that dye-paper over the club face to show you where you were hitting it).

Only thing about range balls is that if they are older then perhaps they've softened up a little, and spin a little more off the club than a new pill. Very likely to have been hit more times than one of your Pro V1's after a round.

Good luck with the USGA job - sensational stuff.

BrisVegas
29th October 2004, 09:59 AM
What was your mate's launch angle? I remember Terry saying that 14 degrees or more was about right. Maybe you could try moving the ball slightly forward and on a taller tee to increase your launch angle. That would also help to reduce the spin rate too...

We had a range night a while back and there were a couple of people with scary high swing speeds who were losing distance due to launch angle. Apparently it makes a huge difference. I got a few up around 14 degrees and I was amazed at how high they looked in comparison to my normal trajectory.. :shock:

Just a though, I'm no expert. Hopefully Terry will see this thread and pass on his wisdom. 8)

Jose
29th October 2004, 10:12 AM
Thanks Dan. Im excited. Im only an intern but its a chance to see a lot of the USA which Ive always wanted and work around golf. Get to go the US Open too which will be awesome!

My mates launch angle was around 12-14 degrees as well I think. Its a very high flight that he hits. I think the harder you hit it the less ball spin you can get away with as less spin is needed to create elevation I think?
The range balls were in very good condition and the fact that his ball spin was much lower suggest its not the balls. I tend to lean towards a fade than a draw so maybe that could have an impact.

We didnt get club head speeds in the results. He thinks he swings he around 135-140 and said I would be 120 mph or more. I thought this was about right as I always assumed the longer pros were around the 135 mph mark. NOT TRUE. Ive done a lot of research and Pros like Stuart Appleby swing at 116 mph, Els and Daly at 120 mph. I think Woods and Kuehne get up to 130 but rarely.

Being relatively long compared to my peers I always assumed I was over 120 but now I think a more realistic figure is 110 or so. Im trying to convince my long drive mate that if he was 135-140 that would warrant a ball speed over 200mph so he might not blow it past the long hitting pros like he thinks. Be interesting to see some of those pros load it up with a longer shafted driver, Tiger is scary enough with that 43 inch steel thing he used to use!

Andrew

Fishman Dan
29th October 2004, 10:51 AM
While you're the USGA whipping boy, i'm sure us minnows would love to know what's going on over there. Try and keep posting here. Although could we not refer to it as an 'Intern' role - i think that term has been poisoned..

Iain
29th October 2004, 12:37 PM
Jose,
I believe with spin, it all depends on the swing speed and launch angle of the player in question, a higher ss with a high launch angle doesn't need much spin, as they most likely already hit a high ball, spin is for lower ss players that need help getting the ball up in the air. Range balls would be hard low spin ball too, so you would most likely spin it even more with a premium ball.

Now your high spin could be many things, from the driver head, the shaft, your swing, you could be teeing it too far back it the stance, not teeing it up enough, do you play the ball off you left toe or back? Also do you tee it up so half the ball at least is above driver head. Or if you do it again, try and get a demo of another driver, see if it changes the results.

As for your SS, I'd say you would be around 110-115, and your mate would be around 120-125, but it depends on quality of contact and other factors. But 12-14 degrees launch angle, I believe is very good, don't want to change that at all....

Iain

Jarro
29th October 2004, 07:02 PM
i had a session on the lauch monitor today. I went to see Chris McCourt at Keperra to see if my driver was suited to my swing or not... and needless to say he said it wasn't :(

The R7 retail i've been playing is 2* closed, effectively making it a 12.5* driver (it's actual loft is 9.5*) The stock Stiff shaft CPM'd at 247 .... certainly not stiff :roll: The other driver i tried .. 300Tour .. was perfect 8) stiff speeder 757 CPM'ing at 255.. a weak stiff 8) Perfect for my average 102MPH swing, except for the fact that i impart too much spin on the ball (between 3500 - 4200 RPM) Launch angle was great for me .... between 14/16 * ... quite a feat considering my drivers loft is 8* :shock:

anyway, after the session, Chris told me it's got a lot to do with the bal you are using. If you're getting way too much spin, you might wanna consider getting a lower spin ball (ProV1X, Precept laddie etc.)

davidp
29th October 2004, 07:11 PM
The R7 retail i've been playing is 2* closed, effectively making it a 12.5* driver (it's actual loft is 9.5*) The stock Stiff shaft CPM'd at 247 .... certainly not stiff :roll: The other driver i tried .. 300Tour .. was perfect 8) stiff speeder 757 CPM'ing at 255.. a weak stiff 8) Perfect for my average 102MPH swing

jarro, my SS is about 105mph and found my SK Fiber Lite Rev I at 255 CPM to be perfect for me, most of the time. I play a 8.5* - 9* driver (closed about a degree) and hit off three inch tees. I find I get too much height and spin and am still to find my ideal launch angle. I might make it up to Chris' pro shop one day.

BrisVegas
29th October 2004, 07:13 PM
The R7 retail i've been playing is 2* closed, effectively making it a 12.5* driver (it's actual loft is 9.5*) The stock Stiff shaft CPM'd at 247 .... certainly not stiff :roll: The other driver i tried .. 300Tour .. was perfect 8) stiff speeder 757 CPM'ing at 255.. a weak stiff 8) Perfect for my average 102MPH swing, except for the fact that i impart too much spin on the ball (between 3500 - 4200 RPM) Launch angle was great for me .... between 14/16 * ... quite a feat considering my drivers loft is 8* :shock:

Isn't that interesting?! You were just saying the other day that you felt the 300Tour was a better club (or at least, performing better) than the R7. Isn't it funny when some facts turn up to back up a gut feeling you have! :roll:

Is the effective loft of 12.5 due to you tending to open it up to get it square???

That launch angle is great! No wonder you hit such a high ball. :wink: 8)

Jarro
29th October 2004, 07:23 PM
Vegas, not too sure about the loft on the R7 :smt017 Chris was trying to explain it to me, but it was all going right over my head :roll:

He said my spin rate was quite unique .... seeing as though my launch angle was so high.. usually you don't have both :-k

I thought you had a fairly good launch angle last time i played with you Dion :?:

BrisVegas
29th October 2004, 07:31 PM
He said my spin rate was quite unique .... seeing as though my launch angle was so high.. usually you don't have both :-k

I thought you had a fairly good launch angle last time i played with you Dion :?:

Actually, I think my launch angle was a bit low... There were a few times on Terry's launch monitor when I felt like I hit it way too high.... those were the 14 degree ones! Most of the time I was noticeably lower, so probably 10-12 at a guess. Your swingspeed and mine aren't that different. Last night I was consistently 104-105 when swinging smooth. Strange that my driver shaft is so much stiffer, yet I still hit it alright. Not that I'm gonna change, mind you!! Just curious!! :wink:

Jose
29th October 2004, 08:18 PM
Arggg it’s a frustrating game if you’re a semi perfectionist. It’s so annoying! I just had a game at golf coast country club after I posted for the 2nd time on this thread. The first nine was terrible, one of the most horrible nines I think I played for at least 3 years. 6 over 42 and that was about the best I could have shot, up and down for scrambling bogeys and hitting it sideways off the tee. On the ninth tee sitting at +7 I decide to focus on getting my left shoulder under my chin on the back swing to complete my turn, for the first time I middle one down the middle and down the hill, hit a 6 iron into the green (500 metre par 5), make birdie, and suddenly my confidence comes back with two swings! Shoot 32 (4 under) on the back and have a 74. True hell and true bliss all in the same round, very strange day....


Hahaha Dan, I assume you’re referring to a past Whitehouse intern? Don’t worry I will not stoop to any such depths. Let’s call me a trainee! I’m actually getting relatively good compensation for an inexperienced 24 year old and can't wait to see the USA. Its kind of a personal OE rather than backpacking through Europe, I got a British passport so plenty of time for that later! Ill do my best to make sure that Pinehurst doesn’t turn into the farce that Shinnecock Hills was in the final round this year :)


That’s worrying Iain. I use a strata tour ace which I believe is a very high spin ball so maybe my rpm's are even higher on the course?? :( I always found Pro V1s a little 'dull' at impact but I might try the V1x next week to see if it makes any difference

I think it may be coming down to my equipment and setup issues. My driver has 7.5 degrees of loft and I think I may have naturally adjusted over the years to swing in a certain plane and setup to the ball in a way that helps me achieve a high ball flight. My miss hits with the driver tend to be VERY high straight pushes to the right, a shot that most likely is loaded with spin. Before I got this driver I used a Ping TISI with 5.5 degrees of loft. I tend to tee the ball about two inches high and have it about 3-4 inches inside my left foot, much like my long irons. I talked to a pro at the club today and he reckons I would be better off trying a 9 degree driver with stiff shaft of any sort, teeing it way off my front foot, ripping it and going from there to the launch monitor for futher analysis.

It's interesting to note that many pros nowadays are using more loft than ever before with their drivers. I heard somewhere that many power players such as Garcia use drivers with 10 degrees of loft, some even more. The old unspoken rule that the faster you swing the less loft you need is certainly gone I think.

When I get to the USA I am going to get fitted up and tested with some new equipment to make sure its right for this time. I hit some SMT stuff at the long driving tournaments and was very impressed so Ill look into that as far as woods go.

Andrew

markTHEblake
29th October 2004, 08:33 PM
The R7 retail i've been playing is 2* closed, effectively making it a 12.5* driver (it's actual loft is 9.5*)

Wouldnt that effectively reduce the loft of the club? :?

Iain
29th October 2004, 08:38 PM
That’s worrying Iain. I use a strata tour ace which I believe is a very high spin ball so maybe my rpm's are even higher on the course?? :( I always found Pro V1s a little 'dull' at impact but I might try the V1x next week to see if it makes any difference

I think it may be coming down to my equipment and setup issues. My driver has 7.5 degrees of loft and I think I may have naturally adjusted over the years to swing in a certain plane and setup to the ball in a way that helps me achieve a high ball flight. My miss hits with the driver tend to be VERY high straight pushes to the right, a shot that most likely is loaded with spin. Before I got this driver I used a Ping TISI with 5.5 degrees of loft. I tend to tee the ball about two inches high and have it about 3-4 inches inside my left foot, much like my long irons. I talked to a pro at the club today and he reckons I would be better off trying a 9 degree driver with stiff shaft of any sort, teeing it way off my front foot, ripping it and going from there to the launch monitor for futher analysis.

It's interesting to note that many pros nowadays are using more loft than ever before with their drivers. I heard somewhere that many power players such as Garcia use drivers with 10 degrees of loft, some even more. The old unspoken rule that the faster you swing the less loft you need is certainly gone I think.

When I get to the USA I am going to get fitted up and tested with some new equipment to make sure its right for this time. I hit some SMT stuff at the long driving tournaments and was very impressed so Ill look into that as far as woods go.

Andrew

Andrew,
I would say that 3-4 back from the left heel is back way too much, try to play it off your left toe/heel, I think you'll find that will reduce the spin straight away and may not have to change ball anyway, but even I think you should definatley try the Prov1x, if your SS is around 110-115, then you will be able to take advantage of it.

The reason the Pro's are using higher lofts is due to trying to reduce the spin, while getting a higher launch angle, which will ultimately give a flatter more boring ball flight.

You would definatley want a stiff at least. What do you play now?? Not a regular!!! :shock: If you do that wouldn't help with the high spin.

Iain

Iain
29th October 2004, 08:41 PM
The R7 retail i've been playing is 2* closed, effectively making it a 12.5* driver (it's actual loft is 9.5*)

Wouldnt that effectively reduce the loft of the club? :?
No, if when you strike the ball the club face is 2* closed it would play to stated loft, if it is square or slightly open it will be a higher than indicated loft.

Jose
29th October 2004, 09:19 PM
Iain

I have a proforce shaft, the yellow and purple one. It is a stiff graphite shaft but was shortened a little when put into my bang head I got from North Carolina so it was probably a little stiffer than you’re regular stiff shaft. I’ve been using it for 2 and a half years so it may have loosed a bit so to speak.

I played most of my high school golf and provincial squad golf in New Zealand with an old ADX 300 yonex head (graphite) and a steel shaft. I guess it was around a 43 inch driver but not sure. Strange combo but I won a junior long driving contest and used this up until the year 2000 when I finally cracked the face (graphite heads were never too durable). I don’t think I’ve ever hit a driver further than this one, especially in the dry Auckland summer fairways. Had a very flat flight but seemed to come off very fast and roll a long way. When testing new drivers I found that the newer titanium drivers seemed to really balloon the ball so I naturally pressed for lower lofts to reduce this, hence the 5.5 degree Ping. Seems that may have been an incorrect path to take.....

I’m selling my equipment before I go to the US so I’m going to start from scratch, get tested up, and get fitted properly. I have never paid that much attention to technological advancements in golf although I have obviously been dragged along with the improvements. The fact that my game might be suffering due to my equipment inaccuracies as well as my swing faults is enough to make me tear my hair out!

Andrew

goughy
30th October 2004, 05:42 AM
The R7 retail i've been playing is 2* closed, effectively making it a 12.5* driver (it's actual loft is 9.5*)

Wouldnt that effectively reduce the loft of the club? :?

The whole closed face thing is probably great for most golfers. Many (especialy hackers) could use more loft and by closing the face of the driver, when they do hit it square they probably hit it better. The best driving I've ever done was with a 12* brosnan steel driver with a whippy aldila shaft. I'd even give a 12 degree another go honestly. I gotta do something about it.

Iain
30th October 2004, 12:13 PM
Andrew,
You say the proforce shaft was shortened? Which end did they cut from? the tip or the butt? Not that it matters, if you're going to sell it all anyway..... :roll:

But I would suggest playing the ball off your left toe (or between the outside of the left shoulder and left armpit if you have an excessivley narrow or wide stance), that, I am certain will reduce your spin and then play the Prov1x, it is the best ball out there atm anyway and can be had for cheap when buying slightly used but in great nick.

Iain

Jose
30th October 2004, 12:40 PM
Im not sure Iain, my mate is an apprentice pro in New Zealand and he did it for me when I found the club a little too long to control with any efficiency. The club has performed very well for me over the couple of years Ive had it. Its quite a cheap head, I just brought it over from the US as an experiment, put the shaft in it to see how it would go. Was quite impressed and its been in the back ever since! Problem is I have just noticed a crack on the face yesterday so I think its past its used by date. Wont even bother selling it.....

Im gonna book a session on the launch monitor and try a host of different combos of heads and shafts. I got my eyes on those SMT heads. I hit a large selection of them at the Long Driving Championship that the big boys were using and was very impressed, even tho most of them were 48 inches long with 6 degree lofts! Bunch of gorillas.......I am going to go down to parkwood tommorow for some practise so will try some of the tips you and others have given me. My next door neighbour has some V1x balls and has given me some to try so Ill give them a blast the next time I play.

Andrew

Iain
30th October 2004, 12:45 PM
No Problems Jose, because if he tipped it, it will play stiffer, but if he only took it off the butt, it will play slightly stiffer due to the decreased SW, but not much.

I think you'll like the X's as they feel harder than the normal ones of the face.

And just remember, play the ball off the left armpit, thats as far back as you want to go!!!

Good luck with it. :wink:

Iain

davidp
30th October 2004, 01:35 PM
I got my eyes on those SMT heads. I hit a large selection of them at the Long Driving Championship that the big boys were using and was very impressed/

Andrew

Yes, try a Spectrum. Seems to be the best of the new SMT line. Andylo has one and loves it.

Ona
30th October 2004, 04:58 PM
nah blow the Spectrum Jose, I think I know someone selling a 455db that'd be perfect for a strapping young handsome(ish) man like yourself :roll: :wink: :D

Jarro
1st November 2004, 09:44 AM
after watching the way Jono was smashing his spectrum yesterday, i think we ALL should be seriously checking them out 8)

I've never seen anyone hit a 7* driver so high :shock: