Ashlar/ Stonecutters Ridge Swap Deal

[Not so Big Easy]

Agree with you on all counts.

I guess if the current management of Ashlar are not equipped to run this larger scale operation, then fortunately or unfortunately its up to the members to change the board / management, but that can only open if there are candidates that willing to step up to make a difference, if so required.

But first, the vote has to take place.

[amanda]

I wonder if the developer (Medallist) has some sort of clause in the deal that requires Ashlar to hire particular staff qualified & with proven track record to run the business.

I know some owners are looking for the place to be "exclusive" - but in my mind, a very private expensive club in this area isn't going to work - unless you manage to attract a lot of high net worth individuals from places like Bella Vista Waters etc - I'd rather have a course that is still running!

I've played at Ashlar a few times and people on the whole seem nice - you're going to get good and bad members everywhere. Of course - we'd like no bogans please :lol:

[3oneday]

Good luck with that.

I wonder how they will go when social players come to destroy the course ;). Not many clubs can survive without them in the west.

[amanda]

I'm good at being a bitch - happy to volunteer as course marshall :)

[Hawkers2008]

Doing the deal in principle is the easy bit. Managing the contracts so you don't get screwed and making the switch work for members is a hell of a lot harder.

I am just about to leave a club in Melbourne that on paper did a reasonable swap deal. In theory the deal shifted them from being an absolute rubbish facility to a good quality (not resort) facility free of neighbour issues and with a nice cash pool of $1.5m. Through a lack of management/board skill they have made a meal of it in so many ways. They didn't manage the contracts well and got delivered a course that was not everything they bargained for. They failed to truly appreciate what the new course would cost to run, what the local demographics were and what that meant for how much they could take from members, green players and the F&B operations. And to cap it off the first GM did a huge amount of turnover on functions which were priced with no gross margin or in some cases even less than that. Less than 3 years after moving only $0.25m of the cash is left, they have just bunged on a levy to fix problems on the course and I would think they will be losing something like 15% of the members when the club year ends on 31 August.

[markTHEblake]

I'll be at Stonecutters next saturday, i'll take some pics.

Umm,. I forgot to take the pics.

[happy_golfer]

I had a chance to walk a few holes with some other members from Ashlar on Sat morning. The course looks fantastic albeit a little brown but has good grass cover on the completed holes we saw.. The greens look fabulous. Some are so big they need their own postcode.

[amanda]

Hey happy golfer - were you in the morning group around 9am-ish? Hubby opened the garage door to find a whole lot of people on the footpath - they looked shocked to seem him!

We've had some terrible frost - looked great in the pictures at the time - but everyone's lawns are suffering now :(

[happy_golfer]

Hey happy golfer - were you in the morning group around 9am-ish? Hubby opened the garage door to find a whole lot of people on the footpath - they looked shocked to seem him!

We've had some terrible frost - looked great in the pictures at the time - but everyone's lawns are suffering now :(

I was in that group, I do not recall a gaeage opening though, was probably too busy checking out the course.

[amanda]

I've heard the result of the vote was an overwhelming yes :)

[amanda]

Hey Richard - thanks for the info! So they're turning the 1st & 18th into houses? Glad we didn't wait for that land to open up to build a house - we'd still be waiting. (Though I'm sure you'll do a fab job on the course!)

[jimandr]

Still deciding on the line between residential and golf but the first 4 or 5 fairways at the top of the hill will go.

New Brighton is probably worth its own thread, but if I understand this comment correctly, you'd better be good at flood mitigation works Dicky.

The holes on the flat at New Brighton are among the most flood-prone golfing lands in Sydney, and building houses on the hill might make it even worse. Mind you, I won't miss the climb up the 18th if that disappears.

[happy_golfer]

hi amanda, a massive yes ... they were hoping for maybe 200 to turn to the meeting and got 378, of those 358 said yes, 17 said no, and 3 abstained. Not sure why you would turn up and not vote but hey each to their own. So now anxiously waiting the outcome of the Macquarie Board to give the final tick of approval on their side. Not sure when they meet, we were told we should know aound end of the month (Aug).

[happy_golfer]

I've heard the result of the vote was an overwhelming yes :)

hi amanda, a massive yes ... they were hoping for maybe 200 to turn to the meeting and got 378, of those 358 said yes, 17 said no, and 3 abstained. Not sure why you would turn up and not vote but hey each to their own. So now anxiously waiting the outcome of the Macquarie Board to give the final tick of approval on their side. Not sure when they meet, we were told we should know aound end of the month (Aug).

[matty]

Does anyone know how the progress is going with the Stonecutters Ridge course and when it is due to open?

The course is looking good. From the M7 at least!

[Scottt]

The houses will all be built above the 100 year flood line...nobody give a rats if the course goes under every couple of years.

That's the spirit! :lol:

[Danieljc]

Does anyone know how the progress is going with the Stonecutters Ridge course and when it is due to open?

The course is looking good. From the M7 at least!

From what I have heard not until Sep 1st 2011. Is the current date that they seem to be throwing around at the moment.

[matty]

Thanks

[Danieljc]

the reason that seems to be the date as thats when ashlar's membership starts and I think they want the new clubhouse built first before they move in. The course its self I think is pretty much 95% complete they are pretty much I think killing time allowing it to all take and get the contracts and everything else in order.

[matty]

After watching the course and surrounds develop over the last year I made the switch and joined Stonecutters (Ashlar) today. Had a walk around a few holes a couple of weeks back and I can't wait to play.

[WBennett]

Matty

Is Stonecutters now a full 18?

[Danieljc]

It's always been 18holes but they are waiting on the buildings and surrounds to be finished first. Moving end of august

[matty]

Opening 27th August apparently. The joining fee will more than double in two weeks so I jumped.

[stealth2]

Yes called Ashlar up today. From 1st July joining fee is going to $3000 with the annual subs around $1450. Currently the joining fee is $1500 until the 1st July

[Eldrick]

is Ashlar closing on the same day?

[stealth2]

I did not ask them about cut over dates or anything, was just curious about the cost of membership.

[Eldrick]

ill give them a ring
i want to get a few mates together for one last hurray

[matty]

is Ashlar closing on the same day?

I was told it will. They have kept the course in great condition even though it's closing soon.

[Webster]

Whatever happened to Amanda Wong?

[markTHEblake]

Dr Wong to you! Brad and Mandy are still living there, they had always planned on playing golf again after the golf course opens, as she has been concentrating on getting her Phd finished last few years.

[Danieljc]

Ashlar is meant to close on the sunday 26th and then on the 27th stonecutters will open and take over.

[matty]

Stonecutters is due to open Monday week, the 27th. There is a decent write up in the current edition of Golf Australia. I had the feeling the course was written up as not being too challenging. I hope not. The few holes I walked a while back didn't seem to indicate that but the test will be playing the course. The writer says it's similar to the Vintage. Is that good?

[3oneday]

Is it a links course, or will they be planting some trees ? Note, I only saw it from the freeway, but it reminded me a bit of MacGrange where the balls will run to one side of the fairways ?

[Grunt]

Is it a links course, or will they be planting some trees ? Note, I only saw it from the freeway, but it reminded me a bit of MacGrange where the balls will run to one side of the fairways ?

That must be good, Mac Grange was on your list of Must plays wasn't it Pete? ;)
Eag's will love it too.

[WeekendHacker]

delayed 1 to 2 weeks due to council issues with the occupancy certificate.

[3oneday]

Hmmm, seems a few delays over this place. Members must be chomping at the bit.

[mrbluu]

Hmmm, seems a few delays over this place. Members must be chomping at the bit.

They are! I have friend who lives there and has been gagging to get on. I'm hoping to get out there first open/inviteday they have!!!

[Danieljc]

Ashlar Golf Club is relocating to Stonecutters Ridge on Friday 31 August 2012.
Last day to play at Ashlar will be Wednesday 29 August, with both courses closed on Thursday 30 August to allow for relocation to take place

[matty]

Played in my first comp at Ashlar today. Thought I better have a hit there before it closes. Played with a board member who told me the same re Friday. I plan to be hitting off at some stage on Friday.

[Danieljc]

I don't think I'll get to play it on the friday so I'll wait till the sunday and play in the 2 man ambrose and then I have some days off during the week coming up so I'll hit it up again

[Rodent]

Anyone know what the A.C.R is for Stonecutters?

[matty]

No idea Rodent.

Played at the opening day yesterday morning. Second group out after some lifetime members.

Impressions in a nutshell-: forgiving, beautiful looking holes, and really fun to play.

I didn't find any of the tee shots really intimidating. On most par 4's and 5's driver is the preferred option, except on about three holes. If you get in trouble off the tee you deserve it.

The greens have some really good swales and steps and will be brutal when quick. The bunkers look fantastic with large step downs into them.

Good players will rip the course to shreds on a good day. I found the par 5's too short. I have never driven the ball so well but driver, 9 iron on three par 5's ( wind assisted on one and downhill on the other) is not on. I still managed to miss the approach on 2 of them and walked away with par. On the last I 3 putted for a par. Rarely have I been disappointed with pars!

The par 3's are really good with some nice elevation changes. My favourite hole was 12, a par 4. The fairway rises slightly with huge fairway bunkers on the left edge of the crest. I drove 10m to the right of them over the crest. Then it's a shot down to the green which is surrounded by large trees, including a huge one in a bunker. Looks spectacular.

The 60' lob was never used so much. Came in really handy to get it high and land it on elevated greens over bunkers. The lies are perfect for that at the moment. Hope it stays that way!

The crows need to be shot and strung up ASAP. Our group lost a dozen balls. All groups suffered similar amounts. The pro shop and clubhouse are modern and are what they should be. Large pro shop, inviting clubhouse with a balcony overlooking the 18th. It's not that hard to get right when building from scratch ( read Lynwood).

Most of all I was relieved not to be disappointed in the course. I more than happy with the investment to join. I believe the joining fee is now around $4500 :shock:

For the record I played well and had 5 over with three fat, duffed approaches which led to a double and a couple of bogeys but happy nonetheless. I hit all but about two fairways and drive it the best I ever have. I can always say I held the course record! (it wasn't in comp but don't start, I don't care :lol:)

Nothing else to report. Well worth a hit. Took a couple of iPhone photos and will put them up later.

[Andrew]

Well done, Matty.

In the end, if you had to choose between fun & hard, surely fun would be the choice everytime.

[JADO75]

900 members with 260 odd spots for saturday comp is going to cause some issues. That's why they pumped the joining fee up so much, to deter people from joining.

[matty]

18957

18958

One of the par 3's.

18959

The approach to 12.

18961

Par 3, 16th

18960

One of the testing greens. Par 4 on the back 9 somewhere.

18962

The 19th overlooking the 18th.

The iphone pics don't do the holes justice but gives a bit of an idea.

[matty]

900 members with 260 odd spots for saturday comp is going to cause some issues. That's why they pumped the joining fee up so much, to deter people from joining.

It will mate. A lot of them wouldn't 7 day members but still. Lucky I don't play much on Saturdays. I think the joining fee will stop new members.

[Rodent]

Was the ACR on the scorecard matty? Also, I noticed that on the new website, they have "course renovation" listed for Monday. Are they coring the greens or something else?

[markTHEblake]

What did you think I'd the short 4 in the first photo? This was the first hole finished a few years ago as a "display" so I have seen it often and walked around it a little. Whilst drive able for the longest hitters it seems, but the gay bailout to the right makes the approach look really tough?

[matty]

Rodent, they were using the old Ashlar cards. I noticed that about the Monday course reno. Don't know what they're doing. Guess I'll find out. Hitting off at 7.

MTB, I went for the water carry in direction of the green on the hole you mention. I think it was about a 250-60 carry. I had a short chip on. I ended up about a meter from the first bunker. The hole isn't too difficult if you hit right, away from water. I didnt really take much notice of an approach from there but doesnt strike me as unreasonable. A couple of the top bunkers in the photo won't come in to play. Like you said its the display/show hole as you drive in.

[jimandr]

900 members with 260 odd spots for saturday comp is going to cause some issues. That's why they pumped the joining fee up so much, to deter people from joining.

This is a very similar ratio to Camden Valley when it changed to Camden Lakeside, and the members will probably see the same thing happen at Stonecutters as happened at Lakeside.

In the first few weeks everybody wanted to play the course just to see what it would be like, then the playing ratio reverted to what it was before. People who normally played Saturdays played that day, same with Sundays, and everything settled down. In the early days, they might find a lot more visitors wanting to play the Open Days.

Which of course begs the question Matty. Are the midweek comps still Tuesday and Thursday? And still Open Comps?

[JADO75]

Thinking of playing Camden on Friday.

[Danieljc]

Are the midweek comps still Tuesday and Thursday? And still Open Comps?

The midweek comps are still Tuesday and Thursday and open to anyone with golflink number. Weekends are still Members for the first month.

[Grunt]

What sort of coin for Mid Week comp?

[liptout]

wow, thats awesome news about the crows!!

cant play anywhere in western sydney these days without loosing at least half a dozen balls to those bastards things!!

it seriously is taking alot of enjoyment out of the game!!

rant over..........(but still annoyed!!)

[Rodent]

What sort of coin for Mid Week comp? $40 for visitors I believe.

[WeekendHacker]

Mate sent this one to me on Saturday afternoon after his first game there in the morning. Greenside bunker on 12.

19129

[Danieljc]

That's a nice hole the 12th but it would have been better if the tree wasn't dead or on it's way.

$40 for midweek and weekend comps for visitors.

[matty]

Played again today. Enjoyed it just as much. Danieljc answered the stuff I asked about. The course Reno today was spraying the greens. I never saw them anyway.

Didn't see a crow today until the 13th and 14th where they are bad. We lost about four balls today on those two holes to the buggers. I came away unscathed luckily. The 12th is definitely my favourite. Flew the bunkers and down the hill. 333m gps measure, 41m to pin.

Played well again. Was 2 over after 11 then had 4 boges in a row and bogied the 17th after putting it about 3m from the pin off the tee. Managed to 3 putt. Takes talent I tell ya :roll: Eagled the last for a second consecutive 5 over. Today I didn't duff anything but couldn't sink a putt. (except the last)

Hopefully I can hold the form together for the next comp.

[Danieljc]

The 12th is definitely my favourite

How good is the slope in the 12th green

[matty]

How good is the slope in the 12th green

That got me today. Just kept rolling past. The birdie to bogey 3 putt.............
How's the 14th green! Has the biggest step I've ever seen. It's the second last photo I put up but it doesn't do it justice.

[Danieljc]

The 17th is pretty similar to the 14th. The 17th will play much different when the new tee box is up and running

[cobra]

CROWS !!!!! just spray your ball with insect repellant they usually spit them out and leave them

[liptout]

Sorry Cobra, but that's just a rumor.......

I've tried spraying them with everything from insect spray to WD40, and they still end up flying away in a filthy black birds beak!!

[Rodent]

Crows hammered us today on 13 and 14. I played like a busted and had dodgy playing partners so I'll reserve judgement until the next time I tee it up. ACR is 73 from the blue markers I was told.

[matty]

Played again this morning. Good news is there is a permit in to sort the crows out. I lost four to them today. Pissing me off now.

Showed some 'special' talent again today. Drove the 7th and managed the eagle to par 3 putt from about 8m :evil:

[cobra]

I have used the melaleuca and citronella natural spray
stuff works fine for me
havent lost a ball to crows for since i have been using it
give it a go

[mrbluu]

I played the course on Sat in the SCR Cup. What an AWESOME course!!! Good blend of risk/reward and I feel golfers of all levels will like it.

[Dangals]

I played the course on Sat in the SCR Cup. What an AWESOME course!!! Good blend of risk/reward and I feel golfers of all levels will like it. You mean everything except that it took 6+ hrs to play 18!!!! I agree that the course was great and if it wasn't for the joining fee I would be there in a heartbeat but if it takes that long every Saturday comp that would be an absolute punish...

[liptout]

5hours and 20mins to get through today's round....... Pretty impressive course, but rounds taking that long are almost unforgivable, there really is no need for it......

Sensational greens though, absolutely awesome greens.

[Danieljc]

It is taking around the 5hr 30min on sundays in the comp as well. The midweek comps that I have played are a little bit quicker but not by much.

[mrbluu]

driver and flick with the sand wedge...only hole i birdied.

[liptout]

theres PLENTY of room to the left on that hole...... the 3rd and the 4th share a fairway and its massive, so plenty of bail out areas on both holes. the shot to the green from the 3rd is a little tougher though...

can anyone tell me though, how this course can possibly have a ACR of 71, and a par of 72??
i dont know how its set up on a weekend, and how it rates, but it couldnt be too much harder than what it was set up yesterday i wouldnt think.
dont particulary think its all that fair (or easy) to be rating a shot under par............

[3oneday]

Are the fairways wide ? I understand they rate courses harshly if this is the case.

Not sure though how a brand new course could be rated at all ?

[liptout]

yea, there pretty wide.

but youve got bunkers at all the landing zones, bunkers around most greens, fair bit of water and if the ball does go in the rough its good luck finding it.... and the greens are big, swails and fast (loved them)

im not bagging the course in any way, in fact im a big fan...... but when it rates a shot easier than par, you may as well go play bloody Foxhills or something. much easier to shoot under your HC at courses like that.....

[mrbluu]

Not sure but the course rated 73 when I played on Sat....

[3oneday]

Maybe they have 3 sets of tees with different ratings ? I know Windsor rates 70 on Sundays because you play off the Blues rather than the blacks ?

[Webster]

Why on earth would anyone want to be a member at a club where rounds take more than 5 hours?

[mrbluu]

I'm not really fussed on what the course are rated as long as I enjoy the challenge. I remember a few years ago Liverpool used to always rate 74-76 and it was a par 72. I found it was one of the easier courses the play on and the easiest way to get your handicap down as long as you scored more that 32points you handicap went down.

RE: Long rounds at SCR, I teed off there at 8.20am on Sat and don't think it was a 6hour round, but I could be wrong. However they do have a problem with only having 1 tee starts, also being a stroke round didn't help either. Also I'm sure most of the people who played that day would have only played a 1 or 2 rounds (at the most) and are still learning the course. Even the members have only had 3 weeks to get used to it.

[Danieljc]

On the weekends the course rates at 73

[sms316]

Why on earth would anyone want to be a member at a club where rounds take more than 5 hours? Amen.

[Captain Nemo]

Why on earth would anyone want to be a member at a club where rounds take more than 5 hours?

Jeezus!
Over 4.20mins and you DSQ'd at our club, period....

[3oneday]

5 hours is a joke, but most Sunday golf takes 5 hours in Sydney these days I've noticed, unless you're off at the crack of dawn.

Doubt I'll go near the going until someone says it's improved. My neighbour played there Satdy too I think, I'll ask him next time I see him.

[mrbluu]

Jeezus!
Over 4.20mins and you DSQ'd at our club, period....

nice....

[Captain Nemo]

Yeh Sundays at ours is a touch more lenient.
Mens first off, then ladies then mixed.
Im pretty sure though the mens field has a time limit.

[matty]

I was looking at a few holes on nearmap today and some of the strategies look really good in plan form.
It looks like the 4th hole, par 4, water right, green angled to the water, and a football field of room on the fairway...how does this hole play ?
Looks a very simple but great strategy.

Driver, short wedge as already stated. Off the whites I go for the green. Have hit the upslope and landed in bunker. Need a 260 carry though to get over water.

On Monday I walked the front 7 for about an hour and a half watching the PGA state qualifying. Saw some bloody awful golf and some beautiful golf. We were standing near the 4th tee and decided to watch the group approaching. First 3 hit regular drives on fairway and didn't take on the carry even though they had a pretty strong tailwind. 4th guy steps up and had the most beautiful swing I've ever seen in the flesh.

Absolutely flushed the drive, 5m draw to the upslope and came to rest on the fringe of the green. (Later saw from a distance his reaction after putting. I take it he just missed the eagle). Anyhow, my mate said to check the name out on the bag. Nagle. Turns out it was Jake Nagle, grandson of Kel.

Checked the results yesterday. Out of 55 or 60 playing only one went under par (-1), and two went even. The wind was a killer though, especially playing it the first time.

In all honesty the course is great for someone with distance off the tee. Fairways are wide. You drive well, you should score well. All par 5's reachable in two, although a dangerous attempt on the 1st. I'd say the overall rating reflects this.

I used driver on 2,4,7,8,9,12,13,14,18. If I hit the fairway it should be 9 pars there. On 3 of the 4 par 5's I use 5 iron off the tee, mid irons again, and wedges in. Should be three pars there. Obviously all easier said than done. At Lynwood CC I'd only use driver 4 or 5 times due to the risks. My rounds so far have been 5,5,8,12,4 over. Plays several shots easier for me than Lynwood but it's more fun.

I'm booked in for comp Sunday midday. Haven't played weekends at that time. Can't say I'm looking forward to the 5+ hour round. Have been hitting off early all other times around 6.30 and been doing it 4hr to 4hr15 without rushing.

[Jono]

Played Stonecutters yesterday off the whites. I loved the course. Wide enough fairways to go for my drives in some holes, but had to dial back on other holes due to hazards on both sides (eg 3rd). Played quite short off the whites and drove couple of greens. All the par 4's seemed to be in the 300-340m range from the whites.

Looking at the card, there doesn't seem to be any really long par 4's, even off the back tees ... longest was 395m from memory. Having 2 relatively short par 3's consecutively on the back nine was a bit funny too. However, on the whole, very enjoyable yet challenging course.

BTW, I found the greens difficult but I find most greens difficult ... :)

[KristianJ]

I've got the week off next week so hoping for a hit there in one of the open comps...probably Tuesday. Any of you members up for a hit there?

[matty]

I've got the week off next week so hoping for a hit there in one of the open comps...probably Tuesday. Any of you members up for a hit there?

What about next Thursday morning? Early.

[KristianJ]

That'll work...Jono PM'd me to say he'd be keen on Thursday. Guess for him it depends on how early early is.

[Jono]

guys, it takes me about hour and a half to two hours to get there depending on traffic.

I was thinking about 11am but if this is too late, how about 9am?

[matty]

Jono,
I can't do later than 8 due to an appointment early arvo. But I'll reserve a couple of groups around 9ish in a few weeks on a Monday for an ozgolf bash. Will post it in the 1st tee in the next week or so.

[Jono]

Jono,
I can't do later than 8 due to an appointment early arvo. But I'll reserve a couple of groups around 9ish in a few weeks on a Monday for an ozgolf bash. Will post it in the 1st tee in the next week or so.

OK. Make it 8am then? Note sure what the traffic will be like coming up M7 from cambelltown side. Is that usually busy at this time? Otherwise, I can come through the city and come up M2/M7.

Any chance we can make the Ozgolf bash on a Wednesday?

[Grunt]

M7 entrance at M5 from Campbelltown is horrible from 6am to 9am Jono

[Humphrey]

So....did you play ??
What did you think ??

[scratchoz]

Revisting this thread and looking back over all the comments - wondering if anyone has played the course recently (before lockdown of course) and would like to update their thoughts.

As a starting point, its a great layout that I never get tired of playing but conditioning of bunkers and some surrounds appears to be impacted by a lack of staff resources. The 18th being changed from a risk/reward par 5 to a weakish par 4 is a big negative but, that's just my opinion. Thoughts on this anyone?

As for the club, I am told that subs have risen to just over $2100 pa whilst social cost has remained at 2012 levels for players wanting to walk.

Minor issues only, to be honest other than the perception that social players aren't adding enough to the bottom line. Anyone got any thoughts on this point?

[PerryGroves]

I've played a couple of times as I have mates who were Ashlar members, enjoyed it, they were in the process of converting 18 the last time (not sure why). Unlike most Sydney courses it has some width and whilst there is housing, its not overly intrusive.

Stonecutters like most clubs at the moment presumably have member pressure on their time sheets. You can still have green fee players however you need to balance them against member dissatisfaction and particularly in winter, course condition.

Additionally if like most clubs they had the government paying staff wages in the last lockdown, they are probably travelling reasonably well financially........easy to get rid of green fee players if all the above is in play.

[Scottt]

I haven’t played SR recently enough to speak to the condition factor, but damned if I don’t reminisce about Ashlar more than I should given the standard of the course. Maybe just goes to show what really matters in golf.

[markTHEblake]

why is the 18th been downgraded? IMO was a doddle of a par 5 but thats not a reason to shorten it.

[scratchoz]

I haven’t played SR recently enough to speak to the condition factor, but damned if I don’t reminisce about Ashlar more than I should given the standard of the course. Maybe just goes to show what really matters in golf.

The old days at Ashlar were some great times which a lot of people miss. Like everything however, the world has changed a lot since then and some people involved as volunteers need to understand that a golf club with a multi-million dollar turnover has to be managed like a business, not a boys club, or it leads to a perilous outcome

[scratchoz]

why is the 18th been downgraded? IMO was a doddle of a par 5 but thats not a reason to shorten it.

Not sure other than a number of the shorter hitters found the carry required off the back tee a little too demanding and apparently the newer houses built on the right hand side of the hole may have been in danger. Who would have thought that when you build a house in a golf course estate with course frontage you might get the odd ball in your yard.........

[scratchoz]

I've played a couple of times as I have mates who were Ashlar members, enjoyed it, they were in the process of converting 18 the last time (not sure why). Unlike most Sydney courses it has some width and whilst there is housing, its not overly intrusive.

Stonecutters like most clubs at the moment presumably have member pressure on their time sheets. You can still have green fee players however you need to balance them against member dissatisfaction and particularly in winter, course condition.

Additionally if like most clubs they had the government paying staff wages in the last lockdown, they are probably travelling reasonably well financially........easy to get rid of green fee players if all the above is in play.

No suggestion to get rid of green fee paying players, they should be a source of revenue to keep increases in subscriptions under control, but one would expect that the green fee should increase over time to reflect the similar increase in member subs, especially given that the nearby options (RO, Lynwood, Twin Creeks) are decidedly more expensive

[WBennett]

Has Stonecutters always had back to back par 3s for 16 and 17?

Just had a look at it on Google maps for the first time

[Scottt]

Yep. Two pretty good holes, too.

[scratchoz]

Has Stonecutters always had back to back par 3s for 16 and 17?

Just had a look at it on Google maps for the first time

Yes, it was a bit messy when it first opened as the 17th tee plates were in front of the 16th tee boxes which should never have been accepted as its a design flaw. A quick solution to move the 17th tee has ruined what was a great medium length par 3. Maybe some changes on the way so keep an eye out for something new

[markTHEblake]

Both 16 and 17 look like they have been tacked on as an after thought. I really cant see Norman doing that.

I wouldnt mind betting that there was some alterations done by the developer long after the initial plan was put in place. I got some vague recollections of changes from talking to our Ozgolfer residents there back before the course was finished - only the 7th hole was done as a demo, but I would be guessing what they are. Could have been the hole they live on being renumbered or clubhouse in a different spot. Maybe one day they will decide to play golf again and tell us all about it :)

[scratchoz]

Both 16 and 17 look like they have been tacked on as an after thought. I really cant see Norman doing that.

I wouldnt mind betting that there was some alterations done by the developer long after the initial plan was put in place. I got some vague recollections of changes from talking to our Ozgolfer residents there back before the course was finished - only the 7th hole was done as a demo, but I would be guessing what they are. Could have been the hole they live on being renumbered or clubhouse in a different spot. Maybe one day they will decide to play golf again and tell us all about it :)

Lots of changes from the original Greg Norman design - the gas pipeline was brought to his attention after he had completed the design and started building the demo hole which was the 6th on his plan.

As for Amanda and Brad, they aren't involved in the club at this time and not sure if they still live by the 8th tee

To summarise:
1st - par 5 - tee off next to driving range and tennis courts (where the car park now is - carpark in the area where the practice greens and first tee) to green in same place
2nd - par 3 - across dam currently next to 3rd green - green at the end of the current dam
3rd - par 4 - similar to current 4th hole
4th - par 4 - similar to current 5th hole
5th - par 3 - current 6th hole
6th - par 4 - current 7th hole
7th - par 4 - current 8th hole (with an extra bunker)
8th - par 5 - current 9th hole extended to approx 500m with green near existing 10th tee
9th - par 4 - parallel to existing 9th hole
10th - par 4 - hugging the right hand side of the existing dam next to the current 10th green
11th - par 5 - tee near existing 10th green to existing 12th green
12th - par 4 - current 13th hole
13th - par 4 - current 14th hole
14th - par 4 - from existing 15th tee to a green across the gully in the fairway near the left out of bounds fence
15th - par 3 - up hill to a green in a similar place to the current rough area in between the 11th green and 15th fairway
16th - par 4 - down hill to a green on the left side of the dam near the current 16th green
17th - par 3 - tee in front of existing 16th green to a similar shaped green facing the tee box as designed (rather than the current angle that looks out of place)
18th - par 5 - tee from near the current ladies 17th tee that dog legs to a green behind the current driving range tee (near the green staff machinery sheds)

In this plan, the green staff machinery shed is behind the 15th tee/left of the 16th fairway

if you google search the Stonecutters 2004 layout the diagram is on page 65 of the Blacktown City Council development plan for the estate

it would have been a greater layout than what ended up being built in my opinion.

[markTHEblake]

Great write up man...i think i remember been told about some of that

[thatguy]

Lots of changes from the original Greg Norman design ... if you google search the Stonecutters 2004 layout the diagram is on page 65 of the Blacktown City Council development plan for the estate

Wow ... looking at that plan (as you say found on Page 65 here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi8zrX79d_yAhUESX0KHQaSAWYQFnoECBQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blacktown.nsw.gov.au%2Ffiles %2Fassets%2Fpublic%2Fbuidling-and-planning%2Fdcps-amp-lap%2Fpart-l-stonecutters-ridge.pdf&usg=AOvVaw39vzbFHFl-DfCNcZiHfUoX)) they really did butcher the original design. Its certainly not a bad course but does feel disjointed and perhaps a little underwhelming which is now understandable. Assume this is part of the reason Norman distanced himself from the finished product

[scratchoz]

Wow ... looking at that plan (as you say found on Page 65 here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi8zrX79d_yAhUESX0KHQaSAWYQFnoECBQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blacktown.nsw.gov.au%2Ffiles %2Fassets%2Fpublic%2Fbuidling-and-planning%2Fdcps-amp-lap%2Fpart-l-stonecutters-ridge.pdf&usg=AOvVaw39vzbFHFl-DfCNcZiHfUoX)) they really did butcher the original design. Its certainly not a bad course but does feel disjointed and perhaps a little underwhelming which is now understandable. Assume this is part of the reason Norman distanced himself from the finished product

The developers expected GN to redesign for a very small fee - construction had already commenced and he had made the site visits before moving on to the next project. Club has reached out many years ago and reception was frosty at best. The delivered product isn't as great as the original plan - if GN had got involved again I could definitely see the last three holes being very different to what they are as there is a very good section of creekside land left of the current 18th fairway that would have been a sensational route for a finishing hole with 16 staying as a great short par 4. Unfortunately we will never know.....

[Jazz18]

The developers expected GN to redesign for a very small fee - construction had already commenced and he had made the site visits before moving on to the next project. Club has reached out many years ago and reception was frosty at best. The delivered product isn't as great as the original plan - if GN had got involved again I could definitely see the last three holes being very different to what they are as there is a very good section of creekside land left of the current 18th fairway that would have been a sensational route for a finishing hole with 16 staying as a great short par 4. Unfortunately we will never know.....

When Sydney was COVID free for the first part of the year this year, how were round times at SCR? I've been a member there in the past and really like the course and the facilities and the people are very nice but the course is always PACKED and round times are glacial. Has anything changed in that regard? Not trying to fling shit, just wondering. Cheers

[scratchoz]

When Sydney was COVID free for the first part of the year this year, how were round times at SCR? I've been a member there in the past and really like the course and the facilities and the people are very nice but the course is always PACKED and round times are glacial. Has anything changed in that regard? Not trying to fling shit, just wondering. Cheers

No offence taken - it's a known fact and even members are frustrated by slow play

The round times have always been an issue and in groups of 4 it averages around 4:15 for 18 holes in comp on the weekend - don't even think about coming for a social game on the weekend, $35 green fees and people writing cheques their golf games can't cash along with trouble on one or both sides off the tee on 8 of the first 9 holes doesn't bode well for a quick day if you're caught behind a group of choppers with no understanding of golf etiquette.

Hopefully social fees will dramatically increase in the near future as the traffic is taking its toll on the course and the volume of players will drop and the first timers will be put off by the price - not being a snob about this, just realistic. I've played comp games with 30+ handicappers who have no chance of breaking 130 ever

[Jazz18]

No offence taken - it's a known fact and even members are frustrated by slow play

The round times have always been an issue and in groups of 4 it averages around 4:15 for 18 holes in comp on the weekend - don't even think about coming for a social game on the weekend, $35 green fees and people writing cheques their golf games can't cash along with trouble on one or both sides off the tee on 8 of the first 9 holes doesn't bode well for a quick day if you're caught behind a group of choppers with no understanding of golf etiquette.

Hopefully social fees will dramatically increase in the near future as the traffic is taking its toll on the course and the volume of players will drop and the first timers will be put off by the price - not being a snob about this, just realistic. I've played comp games with 30+ handicappers who have no chance of breaking 130 ever

4:15 for 18 in comp on the weekend would have been awesome when I was there. I'm a late morning/afternoon player and groups never got around in under 5 hours most weeks.

Are you predominantly a morning player? I could never understand the delays in the round given tee times were usually on time or only a few minutes late. It seems the delays on the course never seemed to impact on the field getting away on time. Col Bishop runs a very good comp.

[scratchoz]

4:15 for 18 in comp on the weekend would have been awesome when I was there. I'm a late morning/afternoon player and groups never got around in under 5 hours most weeks.

Are you predominantly a morning player? I could never understand the delays in the round given tee times were usually on time or only a few minutes late. It seems the delays on the course never seemed to impact on the field getting away on time. Col Bishop runs a very good comp.

It averages 4:15 - I normally play early mid week and we get around in 3:20-3:35, on the weekends its the same early on and for tee off between 9:30 and 11 it stretches out to 4:45-4:50 and by 12 its back to around 4:15-4:20. There is a problem in the middle of the field which could be as simple as that being the time that slower players tend to play. I know if given the option, I'll try and be on course before 9:30 or I'll take a time after 11:30am

[Jazz18]

It averages 4:15 - I normally play early mid week and we get around in 3:20-3:35, on the weekends its the same early on and for tee off between 9:30 and 11 it stretches out to 4:45-4:50 and by 12 its back to around 4:15-4:20. There is a problem in the middle of the field which could be as simple as that being the time that slower players tend to play. I know if given the option, I'll try and be on course before 9:30 or I'll take a time after 11:30amOk cool. Thanks for all the info. It's a great club to play at, it just struggled with round time when I was there. Cheers