I'm conviced: straight left arm a must.

[b1_]

I've been playing golf (actually mostly practicing at the range) for 1 year 1 month. I've recently convinced myself that in order to get more consistent and accurate shots I need to keep my left arm ram-rod straight throughout the entire back swing. I convinced myself by looking at this list of World Number 1 Male Golfers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_list_of_World_Number_One_male_golfer s) and then YouTube'ing their swings.


Greg Norman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nii3ElN-ciQ&feature=related)
Tiger Woods (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPJtK-DxnV4)
Ernie Els (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTlPYw5wVk)
Vijay Singh (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBKc7u0Fxho&feature=related) One of the few? who bends his arm

Then there's:
Adam Scott (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-zz2_GYsFs&feature=related)

I think it's helped, and I think I've also got longer as well. I have yet to manage bringing that straight left arm fully vertical because it seems I just don't have the flexibility but I hope that will come the more I work on it.

What do you think of this hack's theory?

[goughy]

I'd say plenty will agree, and plenty will disagree. The question is young grasshopper, what works for you?

I know my left arm bends during my backswing, but I've found it near impossible to keep it straight. But I could understand how it adds some consistancy.

[Jarro]

It's probably more important to have a flat left wrist

[goughy]

I was never any good at that either!

[Flowergirl]

Hate to tell you this B1 - if you think that hitting balls at the range is playing golf - boy have you got a lot to learn.:wink:
Good luck on your journey.:smt023

[Courty]

It's fine to learn from these guys swings, but us mere mortals haven't got a hope of mimicking them. I very much doubt that the average amateur player has the flexibility to complete a backswing without bending the left arm. If you can, good luck to you, but I don't think it's the be-all & end-all.

[SupaSubi]

i've found i get more control and more distance by being loose and relaxed throughout my swing.

although when hitting my wedges - i only swing 3/4 but with a straight left arm.

[b1_]

Hate to tell you this B1 - if you think that hitting balls at the range is playing golf - boy have you got a lot to learn.:wink:

I don't, but if you can't even hit the ball I don't see much point in trying to learn course craft. You're not going to learn much.


It's fine to learn from these guys swings, but us mere mortals haven't got a hope of mimicking them.

Yeah we do. They're not any different from you or I. If you think like that of course you never will reach their standard.


I very much doubt that the average amateur player has the flexibility to complete a backswing without bending the left arm. If you can, good luck to you, but I don't think it's the be-all & end-all.

It's not everything no. I just thought there was a trend there that others might have noticed or wanted to refute. My thinking goes that perhaps a straight left arm helps when the pressure is on. Someone with a bent left arm maybe bending it more or less than usual because of pressure in a big tourny and hence lose consistency. The player with the straight left arm has eliminated one variable from their swing.

[Scottt]

If it works for you then it works... for you.

[b1_]

It's probably more important to have a flat left wrist

Indeed. Your comment had me looking again at those pro golfer swings I linked to above and it turns out I had missed that they all have a flat left wrist ie their arm, wrist and hand are all in a perfect straight line at the top of their backswing, even the unconventional swingers. The way I was doing it was bending my wrist back at the top of my backswing in order to get more angle, which I thought meant more lag and therefore more power. Effectively I was paddling the ball away; keeping the face of the club square to the ball all the way through the backswing. I was hitting fairly long but not consistent. I had heard about this thing where you roll the wrist to get more power but could not understand how that was supposed to work and had dismissed it as one of those subtle things only the pros managed to pull off. But everything finally fell into place and made sense once I flattened my wrist! Now that it's flat the wrist roll happens naturally between 90degr to impact and impact. I've had one practice session after this revelation (couldn't wait to try it out once it dawned) and my second shot with the 3wood went 200m on the lob, perfect low bullet trajectory, but the most amazing feeling for me was that it felt effortless - I'm a tall slim guy with thin weak arms (cyclist; strong legs tho). I was always trying to grunt it out there trying all sorts of things, but with the straight left arm, in plane back swing and flat left wrist it all came together. So smooth. My first two iron shots, a club I struggle with normally, were perfectly straight, exactly the same trajectory and landed in exactly the same place. I struggled with my driver though; I think I was reaching too far, too horizontal perhaps. Just gotta keep practicing. It sure does feel weird and alien though. I've played cricket, tennis, table tennis, badmington, the action is always a 'paddling' motion so this sure will take a lot of getting used to and retraining of the brain.

I think I finally have in my head all the components of a golf swing I need to hit well, and more importantly am convinced it's the right way after practice and watching the pros. It's just practice practice practice from now on.

A revelation for me. Thx again.

[SupaSubi]

B1,

are you having lessons?

and i think the previous posts are right - go belt a ball around a course.

[b1_]

I have had one lesson but didn't learn anything from it, and at $100 an hour most definitely not worth it.

Of course I have played on courses but it's not my prime focus. It's fun to be out on the course but not as enjoyable as it could be if I could hit it straight. So I practice.

At the moment I still can't get my driver working with this flat left wrist. No power at all, no consistency, no accuracy. Don't seem to be able to get my brain to engage the lag with this new grip. All other clubs are fine. I may be forced to get another lesson just to see what wrong.

[b1_]

I have discovered a free online book:

Joe Dante - Four Magic Moves to Winning Golf (http://www.newgolfswing.com/newgolfswing01.php)

After reading it there has been a dramatic improvement in my golf in just 2 weeks. The flat left wrist was spot on but I had the wrong grip, hence my problems. Now I have the correct stance, grip, I'm placing the ball in the correct place at address, and most importantly I understand how the swing works. Although the book was written in the 1950's the information it contains appears to correspond to what the pros of today are doing (except for the early wrist break, but I'm guessing that is for beginners only - like training wheels for the golf swing).

A few days ago I played a par 3 course with my brother and kicked his arse! Never beaten him before. Hit 5 perfectly straight tee shots in a row and got my first birdie ever, and was this close to a hole-in-one. I don't think either of us could believe it.

Looking back at that lesson I got last year, knowing what I've now learnt and how quickly I learnt it, all I can say is they really did piss-ant around. :mad:

Best thing about the book for me is that it dispels a lot of faulty golf tips that beginners get fed constantly from well meaning fellow golfers.

Anyway, if you're a newbie to golf highly recommend the book. I think I'm over the beginner golfer hump and away.

:smt023

[gazgolf1]

Nice work b1. :)

[markTHEblake]

B1, I think it is impossible to keep the left arm straight, and I doubt that many golfers do, even the ones you looked at, including Tiger Woods. Whilst his might be straighter than Vijays, I reckon there is about 10-15% bend there, so Darrel Hair would still no ball him.

However - I don't think that there is anything wrong with *trying* to keep the arm straight, as there may well be residual benefits (probably improved turn and tighter wrist ****) But I think it is wrong if you actually achieved it :-)

[b1_]

B1, I think it is impossible to keep the left arm straight, and I doubt that many golfers do, even the ones you looked at, including Tiger Woods. Whilst his might be straighter than Vijays, I reckon there is about 10-15% bend there, so Darrel Hair would still no ball him.

However - I don't think that there is anything wrong with *trying* to keep the arm straight, as there may well be residual benefits (probably improved turn and tighter wrist ****) But I think it is wrong if you actually achieved it :-)

Looks straight to me. In fact Tiger Woods left arm looks even slightly inverted all the way through his swing.

You don't want to bend that left arm at all. Joe Dante describes it as the "easy chair slouch" fatal flaw (refer to this chapter 5 (http://www.newgolfswing.com/newgolfswing06.php)). If you bend your left arm at the top you're releasing some of the tension that you just coiled tight from the backswing, and that you only want to release when striking the ball and not before. At the top of the backswing you're not supposed to feel comfortable.

I think some believe by bending your left arm at the top you will get more power but this is not how the swing works. Club head speed does not come from arm strength otherwise golf would be dominated by big beefy guys. Chapter 7 in that book explains it better than I could so I won't attempt to lecture here - I feel out of my depth already.

By keeping your left arm straight you don't lose any power if you know what you're doing, and you get a consistent arc to your swing which translates to consistent hitting.

When I first began trying to emulate Tiger Wood's and Adam Scott's straight left arm I found it impossible to keep it straight above horizontal. I kept saying to myself, 'how the hell do they get their club all the way up there and keep a straight left arm?'. I persevered though. To help me at the start I pulled my straight left arm up with my right hand somewhat, but now I'm finding after 6 months that the muscles in back of my left shoulder are stretching more and more allowing me to get back further and further on the backswing.

But I'm with Jarro in believing the flat left wrist is more important.

[PeteyD]

Bending the left arm is one of my main issues.

[3oneday]

His replies are almost at Virge proportions !!!

:lol:

[virge666]

Just my 2 cents.

You don't need a straight left arm but you need to have a constant strightish sort of angle in the left arm. The reason being is that if you start bending you left arm more and more on the backswing - your shoulders stop turning and your hands get too close to your body at the top.

The arms wrap around you instead of you coiling the upper body. There is more on this in the reverse pivot video I have given to Jono.

[PeteyD]

I know when I keep the arm 'straight' instead of bending it when I start down I hit the ball a lot better. Hard habit to break.

[SupaSubi]

bending your left arm will result in more lag in your swing... more power!



kidding.



or was i?....

[virge666]

bending your left arm will result in more lag in your swing... more power!


Whilst it looks like it in some videos . . it doesn't USUALLY work that way. The hands work differently doing what you are or maybe are suggesting.

I use to do that until it was explained to me the pros and cons. When I get round to my own progression of the last 12 months . . . you may be able to see my reasoning for it.

You get more shoulder turn with a straight left arm . . . more power than widening the radius on the way down.

Enjoy

[b1_]

John Daly is one of those who bends his left arm (and I don't think he even keeps a flat left wrist):

John Daly swing vision on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv5vaa-FhL0&feature=related)

Perhaps not the most consistent golfer in the world but certainly long.

As far as I see it if you want to bend your left arm you may get more power because you can get your club further back (but surely debatable if Tiger Woods and Adam Scott hit similar lengths to Daly?), but it's going to be a more complicated swing. If you can handle that then by all means. I knew I couldn't handle it not having played when I was a kid or anything, so I went for the simplest, most compact swing I could achieve. My order of priority was consistency, accuracy, then power.

[markTHEblake]

Looks straight to me. In fact Tiger Woods left arm looks even slightly inverted all the way through his swing.

I checked the swing pics in his book, which has frame by frame many angles, and definitely bent in those pics. might look different in a swing video


If you bend your left arm at the top you're releasing some of the tension that you just coiled tight from the backswing

not quite sure whether that was someones quote or your own words :? but anyway, there is no tension built up in your left arm at all. Torso - yes, elbow - no.

But obviously, if you get into a horizontal position at the top, you will get more tension with a straight left arm than with a bent one.

[b1_]

I checked the swing pics in his book, which has frame by frame many angles, and definitely bent in those pics. might look different in a swing video

Fair enough, but I think we're picking hairs here. Daly's is bent, Tiger's is straight. If it's slightly bent I'm sure it's not something he's consciously trying to achieve to gain that extra inch of drive length. I think you'll find most people would describe it as straight.




not quite sure whether that was someones quote or your own words :? but anyway, there is no tension built up in your left arm at all. Torso - yes, elbow - no.

When I say 'coiled tight from the back swing' I mean all muscles drawn taut from the backswing action, including some in the left arm (back of left shoulder and back of left upper arm for sure).

The exact quote from the 4 Magic Moves book is below:

It happens this way. As the swing goes up toward the top, the whole swinging system gets tighter and a definite tension develops. This is felt mostly in the upper part of the body, the shoulders, the left arm, and the left hand. It is not a comfortable feeling. To ease it the player subconsciously checks the shoulder turn, lets the left hand bend backward as the wrist collapses, and loosens the left-hand grip. He's heard a thousand times that he should be loose and relaxed and comfortable, so he's going to be. Often, he even bends his left arm (Fig. 20).The way Virge describes it with not turning the shoulders fully is a part of it.

[flyfordelectronics]

totally agree with you there B1.

I actually got up a tiger woods commerical up on youtube of him swinging and got my golf club and just copied it over and over again for an hour. Did wonders for my golf swing.

It's amazing how top golfers keep their arms relatively straight, don't turn their hips very much, all of them you can draw a straight line at the top of their swing from their left foot to their wrists and they all bring the golf club up parallel to their feet.

I learnt that all from a nike commerical haha

[SupaSubi]

so when is the first real golf round B1?

and what percentage of time to you spend practicing: Driving/Long Irons/Short Irons/Chipping/Pitching/Putting?

i'm just curious because i know this advice was given earlier and i'm wondering if you took it up?

[Rusty]

When I get round to my own progression of the last 12 months . . .

hey Virge put up a thread when you get the chance. be very interested to hear it.

[virge666]

hey Virge put up a thread when you get the chance. be very interested to hear it.


no worries - let me just get the progression right so I am not speaking in tongues when I get to my swing.

Have done weight shift - have doen the power sources - next i will do the pivot, which is quite large - then you can see my progression of about 12 months.

[b1_]

so when is the first real golf round B1?

and what percentage of time to you spend practicing: Driving/Long Irons/Short Irons/Chipping/Pitching/Putting?

i'm just curious because i know this advice was given earlier and i'm wondering if you took it up?

I played a few weeks ago at Caboolture and got 106. Definite improvement off the tee. I only topped two, the rest sailed out there, most were even straight. But there's more to golf than driving off the tee :). I'm playing again this Sunday in that Tour Fore Golfers tour at Collonial. You are absolutely right when you say I should get out on the course more. Playing on the course you get different lies, and there are trees!

At the driving range I would do something like 50% 3-wood/driver, 50% 7-iron/3-hybrid. No putting or pitching. Need to do more of that I'm finding.

I would not have practiced as much if I had been getting some results. I did improve my ability to hit the ball but I could get no accuracy no matter what I did. What I should have done is read a book first, then with understanding practiced, it would have shaved probably 6 months off the process. It just never occurred to me that the golf swing had been worked out and could be taught. I'd always assumed it was shrouded in mystery and there were things the pros did that everyone else could never do.

[SupaSubi]

cool, 106 for a first round of golf isn't bad at all.

at your next round, write down the number of stroke you have from outside 100m, and the number inside. i think you'll be surprised how little stroke it takes you to move the 300+m to around the green, and how many it takes to get it in the hole from there.

once you have the basics of a swing, spend your time around 60% pitching, chipping and putting. 20% with irons 9,8,7 and the other 20% your long clubs. golf is about smarter not harder ;)

but hey - i've gone all off topic.

[Grunt]

Have to agree about the shots from under 100m out. It is my biggest area that I need to improve.

[talbo]

I try and keep it as straight as I can, but it's almost impossible to keep it dead straight and complete a full backswing.

The left wrist is important too, but I find the most consistency comes from getting your take away right as I think if you get this right it makes it that much easier to bring the club back down on the right plane and make solid consistent contact with the ball.

The rest is (for me at least) all in the head (my swing thoughts). For me the more I think about swing mechanics the worst I'm off.... I start blocking it right, snap hooking left and hitting it real fat. I stand behind the ball picture the shot I want to make and then try to (I'm no pro!) get my brain to coordinate the necessary movements required to execute the shot I just pictured, without trying to think about the actual swing mechanics. Point being.... get yourself a pre-shot routine and stick to it because it's half the battle (mental one at least).

Good Luck with your golf B1 8-)