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View Full Version : What is 4BBB? Sounds like B105?!?! :(



andylo
21st October 2004, 08:30 AM
After understanding how the points calculated, would someone tell me how 4BBB thingy work?

McMw
21st October 2004, 08:39 AM
http://golf.about.com/library/glossary/blglossary.htm

Rule 31-1
In four-ball stroke play two competitors play as partners, each playing his own ball. The lower score of the partners is the score for the hole. If one partner fails to complete the play of a hole, there is no penalty.

Fishman Dan
21st October 2004, 08:43 AM
As with anything A-Lo, you will understand a lot more from getting out and doing it hands-on.

When you are in a 4BBB event, advise your partner you are not completely familiar with the scoring, and ask them for help.

McMw
21st October 2004, 08:53 AM
ALo - did you watch the Ryder Cup???
the 4BBB was one of the formate used...

andylo
21st October 2004, 08:58 AM
No foxtel nor able to access to TV :( Didn't see ryder cup :( Loved to thu

AndyP
21st October 2004, 09:02 AM
A-Lo, are you asking this because of our upcoming Nambour Round?

4BBB stands for 4 ball best ball.
You play your own ball, and work out your own personal score at the end of each hole.
Your partner will do the same.
Your result for the hole is the best score out of the two.

This can apply for stroke, stableford or par formats.(see previous lesson for description of stableford :wink:)

For stableford, if you scored 3 points, and your partner scored 2 points or less. You would take the 3 points. :)

Flowergirl
21st October 2004, 09:08 AM
Gotta love you guys. Everyone is so helpful to advise. Never is anyone made to feel uncomfortable if they are not sure of anything.
Big big hugs & kisses to all you lovely guys & gals :smt058 :smt056

Flowergirl
21st October 2004, 09:10 AM
Andylo........are you playing a 4BB soon. It is such a great game. Combines both team work and individual game. Good luck!!! and have fun.

Fishman Dan
21st October 2004, 09:13 AM
Gotta love you guys. Everyone is so helpful to advise. Never is anyone made to feel uncomfortable if they are not sure of anything.
Big big hugs & kisses to all you lovely guys & gals :smt058 :smt056

Being from a Helpdesk background, of course i am outwardly helpful, mind you the amount of cursing and name calling that occurred as i wrote my message can't be published... :smt019 :smt098 :smt076 :wink:

Iain
21st October 2004, 09:14 AM
Yeah, Andy just get out and play, and you will pick it up quickly enough....

But what I don't understand is why is it called 4 Ball, when only 2 players are playing?? :roll:

I personally don't like them, because they don't count towards handicap's.... :x

Iain

drunken
21st October 2004, 09:16 AM
I personally don't like them, because they don't count towards handicap's.... :x

We usually play them combined with an individual stableford 8)

3oneday
21st October 2004, 09:21 AM
But what I don't understand is why is it called 4 Ball, when only 2 players are playing?? :roll:


I have a theory, wanna hear it :wink:


:lol:

AndyP
21st October 2004, 09:34 AM
But what I don't understand is why is it called 4 Ball, when only 2 players are playing?? :roll:
It is confusing, probably because there is four people playing in the group. :?
The term best-ball is confusing too. Makes it sound more like an ambrose format where you pick the best ball after each shot.


I personally don't like them, because they don't count towards handicap's.... :x
Can't they count towards your handicap if you dominate the scoring in the team. I'm not sure how many holes of yours would have to count, it may be at the discretion of the handicapper.

Fishman Dan
21st October 2004, 09:41 AM
With 2 players playing best ball, you should still have a full 18 holes recorded - so you should still be able to weigh that against your handicap. Like Drunken said, our 2 or 4B's are usually in conjunction with a single stableford. At my course they don't give you a 2nd card for the Best-ball scoring, they just look at the individual card and tally up from that.

Iain
21st October 2004, 09:47 AM
But what I don't understand is why is it called 4 Ball, when only 2 players are playing?? :roll:
It is confusing, probably because there is four people playing in the group. :?

The term best-ball is confusing too. Makes it sound more like an ambrose format where you pick the best ball after each shot.
Yep, stupid isn't it..... :roll:



I personally don't like them, because they don't count towards handicap's.... :x
Can't they count towards your handicap if you dominate the scoring in the team. I'm not sure how many holes of yours would have to count, it may be at the discretion of the handicapper.
I think you need 14 or 15 scores for it to count towards a hcp, so would have to have a dominating game over your partner....


I have a theory, wanna hear it :wink:


:lol:
Nope.... :wink:

Iain
21st October 2004, 09:49 AM
With 2 players playing best ball, you should still have a full 18 holes recorded - so you should still be able to weigh that against your handicap. Like Drunken said, our 2 or 4B's are usually in conjunction with a single stableford. At my course they don't give you a 2nd card for the Best-ball scoring, they just look at the individual card and tally up from that.
Not if you pick up on a hole.....

Whenever I've played 4B they have just given one card for the Best ball...

AndyP
21st October 2004, 09:54 AM
With 2 players playing best ball, you should still have a full 18 holes recorded - so you should still be able to weigh that against your handicap. Like Drunken said, our 2 or 4B's are usually in conjunction with a single stableford. At my course they don't give you a 2nd card for the Best-ball scoring, they just look at the individual card and tally up from that.
You may not record all 18 holes, if you are not playing an individual event in conjunction.
If your ball is still in play and your partner has already finished the hole for 3 points, and you can't better that, then you would pick up.

I don't think a team event should count towards your handicap anyway, as you may use a different strategy to your normal play. That is, you may attack a shot, when you wouldn't normally, knowing that your partner is going to make a safe two pointer.

Fishman Dan
21st October 2004, 09:56 AM
What's this 'strategy' thing you lot keep mentioning? :roll:

3oneday
21st October 2004, 10:01 AM
With 2 players playing best ball, you should still have a full 18 holes recorded - so you should still be able to weigh that against your handicap. Like Drunken said, our 2 or 4B's are usually in conjunction with a single stableford. At my course they don't give you a 2nd card for the Best-ball scoring, they just look at the individual card and tally up from that.
Dan, if it is a Fourball event, it is now illegal to have a singles in conjunction. Subsequently, there is no point in marking everybodies score as you CANNOT be handicapped on the full score you recorded.

As Iain stated, the correct way to record a Fourball is to record the best score ONLY. If you then appear on that card more than I think 12 times, you may be handicapped, seemingly based on suspicion. But I guarantee you, if you hand in a card that shows your personal score of 45 points but the event was a 4BBB, you should NOT be handicapped, one of the vagaries of golf I suppose.

This is also another reason why Fourballs are minimally played.

It is now legal to play a singles event, with a 2 ball in conjunction, the 4bbb with singles in conjunction has been outlawed due to concerns of advice being given, thus affecting a singles score. Basically a crock, changed by some rules official who was bored in his retirement.

The beauty of a 4BBB is, the game should be a quick and enjoyable one, as you are playing in a teams event, and if you can't beat your mate, you stick it in your pocket. Also, if your mate is in for a 3 pointer, and you have a putt for a 4 pointer, the consequences of sticking it 4 feet past are irrelevent. As opposed to a singles with 2Ball in conjunction, where you play for yourself firstly, the team secondly :wink:

Got it ??? :lol:

Pete

AndyP
21st October 2004, 10:16 AM
Iain, were we offered to play in the 4-ball in conjunction with the individual, at Keperra on Sunday?

Pete, how does the two ball work? Is that aggregate? :?

BTW, just found this in the rule book too.
Four-Ball: A match in which two play their better ball
against the better ball of two other players.

markTHEblake
21st October 2004, 10:21 AM
A player can be handicapped if he is on the card 9 or more times.
However becuase he is then allocated between 1 and 2.5 over par for the holes he has missed (handicap dependant) , its extremely unlikely that it will affect his handicap unless he is on the card 13 times or more.

Even so, its only the most nasty of handicappers that would bother to work it all out.

Therefore its suicidal for a golfer record both scores on the card, cos that leaves him wide open for a handicap reduction.

Iain
21st October 2004, 10:22 AM
Iain, were we offered to play in the 4-ball in conjunction with the individual, at Keperra on Sunday?

Pete, how does the two ball work? Is that aggregate? :?
Yes Andy I believe we were.... :)

Never heard of 2 ball..... :?

Fishman Dan
21st October 2004, 10:37 AM
Four-Ball: A match in which two play their better ball
against the better ball of two other players.

That's what i understood a 4-ball to be, rather than a 4-person team.

Clear as mud.

Next rule someone would like cleaned up?

AndyP
21st October 2004, 10:49 AM
Iain, were we offered to play in the 4-ball in conjunction with the individual, at Keperra on Sunday?
Yes Andy I believe we were.... :)
Pete has just told us that it is against the rules. :?

markTHEblake
21st October 2004, 11:38 AM
Dan, if it is a Fourball event, it is now illegal to have a singles in conjunction.

Which rule of golf is that?

Its an interesting one, makes sense, but i reckon many clubs will still be doing that.

3oneday
21st October 2004, 12:13 PM
The rule relates to advice, an initiative start of last year I think to eradicate 4BBB with singles in conjunction, as it contravened the rule obtaining advice from a playing competitor, as opposed to partner.

You guys in QLD don't play 2balls ???

Pete

amanda
21st October 2004, 12:57 PM
The rule relates to advice, an initiative start of last year I think to eradicate 4BBB with singles in conjunction, as it contravened the rule obtaining advice from a playing competitor, as opposed to partner.

You guys in QLD don't play 2balls ???

Pete

Pete - this is strange as we always play an individual event & 2BBB in conjunction. Our club calls it a 2BBB (2 ball best ball) rather than 4BBB - that seems to make more sense.

Can you quote an R&A rule so I can check it out?

3oneday
21st October 2004, 02:02 PM
Amanda,

You would need to read the rule book to ascertain what rules you are contravening by playing a 4BBB with singles in conjunction. According to the rules afficianado I spoke with, the biggest sticking point is that, under the rules of golf, you cannot be a "Partner" and a "Fellow Competitor" in the same event. Accordingly, if the event is not being played under the rules of golf, you cannot be validly handicapped on that event. What your club is doing is not in contradiction of the rules of golf, the 2ball is a novelty event.

Picture this scenario, you are playing a 4BBB with singles in conjunction, and you hit your partners bag, normally a 2 stroke penalty in a four ball, but in a singles, he/she isn't your partner, so you are what, keeping 2 scores ??

In 1999 a directive was issued by all state bodies (including AGU) that the practice was in contravention of the rules of golf, primarily relating to the Partner/Competitor thing. They went on to suggest that a 2 ball event could be played seperately and AS A 2 BALL EVENT HAS NO STATUS AS AN OFFICIAL EVENT, could be played as a NOVELTY type event, in whatever way your club saw fit. So yes, 5 years ago.

Check it out, I don't have my rules book, but I don't ever recall any reference to a 2 Ball event in the rules of golf.

Pete

AndyP
21st October 2004, 02:09 PM
Can you quote an R&A rule so I can check it out?
I'm on a roll with this whole rules thing.



Rule 8. Advice; Indicating Line of Play
Definitions
Advice is any counsel or suggestion which could influence
a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the
method of making a stroke.
Information on the Rules or on matters of public
information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick
on the putting green, is not advice.
The line of play is the direction which the player wishes
his ball to take after a stroke, plus a reasonable distance on
either side of the intended direction. The line of play
extends vertically upwards from the ground, but does not
extend beyond the hole.

8-1. Advice
During a stipulated round, a player shall not give advice to
anyone in the competition except his partner and may ask
for advice only from his partner or either of their caddies.

8-2. Indicating Line of Play
a. Other Than on Putting Green
Except on the putting green, a player may have the line of play
indicated to him by anyone, but no one shall be positioned
by the player on or close to the line or an extension of the
line beyond the hole while the stroke is being played. Any
mark placed during the play of a hole by the player or with
his knowledge to indicate the line shall be removed before
the stroke is played.
Exception: Flagstick attended or held up — see Rule 17-1.
b. On the Putting Green
When the player’s ball is on the putting green, the player, his
partner or either of their caddies may, before but not
during the stroke, point out a line for putting, but in so
doing the putting green shall not be touched. No mark
shall be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE:
Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes.
Allowing advice in a team event contradicts the rule for the individual event in conjunction.

At what point in this thread do you think we lost A-Lo? :wink:

3oneday
21st October 2004, 02:11 PM
Andy, but can you find the rule about the Partner and competitor, I think that one is even more to the point.

Pete

AndyP
21st October 2004, 02:25 PM
What am I, Pete, your b*tch? :wink:

Here is the definition.


Competitor
A “competitor” is a player in a stroke competition. A “fellowcompetitor”
is any person with whom the competitor plays.
Neither is partner of the other.
In stroke play foursome and four-ball competitions, where
the context so admits, the word “competitor” or “fellowcompetitor”
includes his partner.

3oneday
21st October 2004, 02:36 PM
Thanks sweetie :smt056

:lol:

markTHEblake
21st October 2004, 06:26 PM
What the heck is a "2-Ball"

Jarro
21st October 2004, 06:41 PM
What the heck is a "2-Ball"

a putter.

gazgolf1
21st October 2004, 07:06 PM
HOLY CRAP Blakey......who's that on your avatar...I'm gunna have nightmares. :lol:

3oneday
21st October 2004, 07:30 PM
What the heck is a "2-Ball"
If I said 2B or 2BBB is that any clearer ?? your club plays singles as well as a game you play with a partner, not a foursome, but a best ball type event, sorry, we have played a 2BBB for about 5 years here in Sydney, second nature I guess.

Bottom line, if your club plays an event called a 4 Ball Best Ball and has singles in conjunction, then under the rules of golf, you cannot be handicapped in that event.

:shock: OK :lol:
Next step, ring your state association for advice :wink:

Pete

markTHEblake
21st October 2004, 08:35 PM
If I said 2B or 2BBB is that any clearer ?? your club plays singles as well as a game you play with a partner, not a foursome, but a best ball type event,


Your clarification is as clear as mud, sorry.

A 4BBB is a game you play with a partner. I do beleive that everybody here knows what that is. So what is a 2BBB then?

markTHEblake
21st October 2004, 08:58 PM
HOLY CRAP Blakey......who's that on your avatar...I'm gunna have nightmares. :lol:

I am having nightmares over your's !

You are obviously not a Red Dwarf fan...... Its Holly the shipboard computer with an iQ of about 50,000 or sometimes 10.

3oneday
21st October 2004, 09:39 PM
Sorry, I can't get any clearer, someone else take over please :lol: :lol:
Focus is 2BBB, and now, why they don't play them in Queensland.

Pete :lol:

gazgolf1
22nd October 2004, 03:54 AM
HOLY CRAP Blakey......who's that on your avatar...I'm gunna have nightmares. :lol:

I am having nightmares over your's !


Well you'd be the only one :?
Anybody else having nightmares over my avatar?

AndyP
22nd October 2004, 05:45 AM
If I said 2B or 2BBB is that any clearer ?? your club plays singles as well as a game you play with a partner, not a foursome, but a best ball type event,


Your clarification is as clear as mud, sorry.

That's a pretty crap explanation, Pete.
But I think you are trying to tell us that it is exactly the same thing as a 4BBB, but with a different name. A way to go around the rules. Yes? :?

3oneday
22nd October 2004, 07:44 AM
That's a pretty crap explanation, Pete.
But I think you are trying to tell us that it is exactly the same thing as a 4BBB, but with a different name. A way to go around the rules. Yes? :?

Andippy, I would have to agree, it was a crap explanation, yes you are right. You can't play a 4BBB with a singles in conjunction any longer, but a way around it is to call it a singles with a 2BBB in conjunction, where you primary event is the singles. The 4BBB (now called 2BBB in my backyard :wink: ) becomes a novelty event played in conjunction with the singles, only for those who are interested in taking part.

If you do still play 4BBB with a singles in conjunction, you can't be legally be handicapped. If you do, your handicap is invalid.

Love always

Pete :P

markTHEblake
22nd October 2004, 09:19 AM
Now why didnt you just say in NSW they call it 2BBB instead of 4BBB becuase nobody can understand the '4' part.

3oneday
22nd October 2004, 10:13 AM
Now why didnt you just say in NSW they call it 2BBB instead of 4BBB becuase nobody can understand the '4' part.
I guess mainly because I didn't believe it was a decision that only affected NSW. It was an AGU directive 5 years ago, hey, maybe there is something in that :wink: or the memo to QLD got lost ???

:lol:

Pete

markTHEblake
22nd October 2004, 10:20 AM
There is no mention in the AGU handbook about 2BBB in the section :"Golf Competitions and how they are played"

so it seems to be a NSW only idiosynchrasy.

3oneday
22nd October 2004, 11:22 AM
There is no mention in the AGU handbook about 2BBB in the section :"Golf Competitions and how they are played"

so it seems to be a NSW only idiosynchrasy.

So, do you play singles with a 4ball in conjunction, or vice versa ??

Pete

markTHEblake
22nd October 2004, 12:34 PM
dont remember playing in any conjunction event ever in the last 25 years.

Why cant you just admit that in NSW they dont understand what 4BBB means, when every other state and country in the world still calls it that?

CobraSS
22nd October 2004, 12:37 PM
:lol:

3oneday
22nd October 2004, 12:43 PM
dont remember playing in any conjunction event ever in the last 25 years.

Why cant you just admit that in NSW they dont understand what 4BBB means, when every other state and country in the world still calls it that?
alternatively, it could be said that we don't wish to waste ones time by playing a 4BBB, playing in an event generally won by a combination of the clubs best sandbaggers :lol: any spin you like, really :wink:

Pete :lol:

markTHEblake
22nd October 2004, 03:52 PM
Jarro, can you explain this - its in your language?

Jarro
22nd October 2004, 07:06 PM
Jarro, can you explain this - its in your language?

sorry Gilligan, you're on your own on this one.

markTHEblake
22nd October 2004, 11:01 PM
Now you have done it, i will have to go find an Gilligan avatar now.

davidp
22nd October 2004, 11:53 PM
dont remember playing in any conjunction event ever in the last 25 years.

Why cant you just admit that in NSW they dont understand what 4BBB means, when every other state and country in the world still calls it that?
alternatively, it could be said that we don't wish to waste ones time by playing a 4BBB, playing in an event generally won by a combination of the clubs best sandbaggers :lol: any spin you like, really :wink:

Pete :lol:

I know where you're coming from Pete. My brother in law used to play at a club that shall remain nameless (country music capital of Australia). It was not uncommon for 55 points to be the regular winners of a 4BBB comp. They also ran other comps in conjunction, which, as far as I know, is against club regs.