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BrisVegas
15th October 2004, 01:55 PM
Anyone watching this? In the only completed match so far, Goosen has simply destroyed Maggert, 12 & 11 :shock:

http://www.hsbcworldmatchplay.com/leaderboard/matchReport.sps?itype=7422&icustompageid=11976

Vijay needs to make a couple to get back on par with Bernhard Langer. He's two down through 26 holes.

Jarro
18th October 2004, 02:57 PM
congrats to The Big Easy for making it 6 titles :o

McMw
18th October 2004, 04:25 PM
sheesh....the organizers must be pissed off... 8)

they have to go and buy another trophy for next year... :lol:

Onewood
18th October 2004, 06:23 PM
Anyone watching this? .

Sat up last night and watched every shot :smt045

Westwood lost it in the 12th, failing to get it up and down out of the sand, when Els was in the poo :roll:

Els putt on the 17th to win a million was awesome :smt023 how do they do that :D

Eag's
19th October 2004, 06:42 AM
Wow :shock: Els is a bloody machine, just awsome!!

BrisVegas
19th October 2004, 07:09 AM
Sat up last night and watched every shot :smt045


Don't suppose you taped it Kev?? :(

jaster
19th October 2004, 04:59 PM
I did 8)

Trung
19th October 2004, 06:02 PM
I did 8) May I? :P

jaster
19th October 2004, 06:08 PM
I did 8) May I? :P

May you?

BrisVegas
19th October 2004, 06:56 PM
I did 8)

May I please borrow it from you next time I see you Leon?? :)

jaster
19th October 2004, 07:27 PM
NP...I have the quarters and semis on tape also ;) The all Westwood Vs Jimenez semi was an awesome match 8)

Jarro
19th October 2004, 07:34 PM
Geez Jaster, how often do the heads on your VCR get replaced :roll: :lol:

jaster
19th October 2004, 07:39 PM
Same AKIA HiFi VCR that I've had for 7 years :wink: 1 service and that was only cause one of my girls stuck something (barbie leg!!!) in the front and bent a part :shock: :lol:

Onewood
19th October 2004, 09:30 PM
If anyone seen Westwood hitting off the bridge :roll:

What was your thoughts of him being allowed to ground his club inside a hazzard (on the bridge)

I always thought a bridge inside a hazzard was a part of the hazzard and therefore to be treated as a hazzard :?

McMw
19th October 2004, 09:35 PM
u can ground on the bridge....the hazard ruling doesn't apply vertically...

mike
19th October 2004, 09:35 PM
I saw that, too Kev.
They showed the rules official standing there but if you look closely you'll notice he's actually asleep.

Onewood
19th October 2004, 09:38 PM
u can ground on the bridge....the hazard ruling doesn't apply vertically...

Why don't you get a free drop off it then :roll: is it not a man made object or a road :?

I always thought as I said above....

2nd time in my life I've been wrong :lol: :lol:

McMw
19th October 2004, 09:40 PM
I've seen it done on the televised tour 3 times...all three on the EPGA tour...
all three times, the player played off the bridge...
you make a good point tho....

perhaps the bridge is an intergral part of the course, and taking an unplayable would mean penalty strokes?!?!?

mike
19th October 2004, 09:43 PM
u can ground on the bridge....the hazard ruling doesn't apply vertically...

Mau are you sure about that?

McMw
19th October 2004, 09:52 PM
u can ground on the bridge....the hazard ruling doesn't apply vertically...

Mau are you sure about that?


well...now that you've questioned me....I'll say NO!!! :wink:


but let me say this....both of you saw it clearly on telly...yes???
the commentators didn't say anything?!?!

I'll take their word!!! :wink:

mike
19th October 2004, 10:02 PM
The reason I asked is that we've got 6 bridges over hazards at my course, similar to the one Westwood was on.
Do you know which rule it is ? I hate looking thru that rule book. Too scary.

BTW , how good was that shot he played off the bridge. Had to draw it 'round that big tree off a bridge when Els was already on the green. Nearly fell off the bridge on his follow thru.

drunken
20th October 2004, 07:47 AM
i believe mau is right. Unlike OB a water hazards boundary does not extend verticaly upwards...Too early in the morning to try & read through that book. Might have a squizz later if you're lucky 8)

AndyP
20th October 2004, 08:32 AM
mike, get yourself a pdf version of the rules. The find function makes things much easier. :wink:

Definitions
Bunker
The margin of a bunker extends vertically
downwards, but not upwards.

Out of Bounds
The out of bounds line extends vertically upwards and
downwards.

Ground Under Repair
The margin of ground under repair extends vertically
downwards, but not upwards.

Water Hazard
A “water hazard” is any sea, lake, pond, river, ditch, surface
drainage ditch or other open water course (whether or not
containing water) and anything of a similar nature.
All ground or water within the margin of a water hazard is
part of the water hazard. The margin of a water hazard
extends vertically upwards and downwards. Stakes and lines
defining the margins of water hazards are in the hazards.
Such stakes are obstructions. A ball is in a water hazard when
it lies in or any part of it touches the water hazard.

Rule 13. Ball Played as It Lies
13-4. Ball in Hazard
Except as provided in the Rules, before making a stroke at a
ball which is in a hazard (whether a bunker or a water hazard)
or which, having been lifted from a hazard, may be dropped
or placed in the hazard, the player shall not:
a. Test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard,
b. Touch the ground in the hazard or water in the water
hazard with a club or otherwise, or
c. Touch or move a loose impediment lying in or touching
the hazard.
Exceptions:
1. Provided nothing is done which constitutes testing the
condition of the hazard or improves the lie of the ball, there
is no penalty if the player (a) touches the ground in any
hazard or water in a water hazard as a result of or to prevent
falling, in removing an obstruction, in measuring or in
retrieving, lifting, placing or replacing a ball under any
Rule or (b) places his clubs in a hazard.
2. The player after playing the stroke, or his caddie at any
time without the authority of the player, may smooth sand
or soil in the hazard, provided that, if the ball is still in the
hazard, nothing is done which improves the lie of the ball
or assists the player in his subsequent play of the hole.
Note: At any time, including at address or in the backward
movement for the stroke, the player may touch with a club
or otherwise any obstruction, any construction declared by
the Committee to be an integral part of the course or any
grass, bush, tree or other growing thing.


I'll leave it to your interpretation, but perhaps the bridge is an integral part of the course. :?

McMw
20th October 2004, 08:34 AM
thanks for the ruling - still means jack !@#$ to me tho...

that's what I hate abt them....they say one thing, and then another thing later... :roll:

drunken
20th October 2004, 09:04 AM
I'll leave it to your interpretation, but perhaps the bridge is an integral part of the course. :?

That's the one :wink: You always should read the local rules at the Pro Shop & on the back of the scorecard. As they always state if bridges, powerlines are integral parts of the course or not.

mike
20th October 2004, 07:56 PM
Holy cow.

Thanks Andy, but that's a good example of why I avoid opening the rule book.

OK so if my ball is in the water hazard ( note most of the time there's no water in them up here ) and the ball is sitting near the bridge and the bridge is impeding my swing, can I drop away from the bridge ?

Golf would be more fun if there were no rules...

drunken
20th October 2004, 08:21 PM
OK so if my ball is in the water hazard ( note most of the time there's no water in them up here ) and the ball is sitting near the bridge and the bridge is impeding my swing, can I drop away from the bridge ?

I would say no.


Rule 13-4
2. The player after playing the stroke, or his caddie at any
time without the authority of the player, may smooth sand
or soil in the hazard, provided that, if the ball is still in the
hazard, nothing is done which improves the lie of the ball
or assists the player in his subsequent play of the hole.
Note: At any time, including at address or in the backward
movement for the stroke, the player may touch with a club
or otherwise any obstruction, any construction declared by
the Committee to be an integral part of the course or any
grass, bush, tree or other growing thing.

Therefore you can't drop away from the bridge if it interferes with your swing.

markTHEblake
20th October 2004, 08:22 PM
You need to consider the intent of the rule to understand the situation.

A player is not allowed to ground a club in the hazard, so that he cannot test the surface of the ground or improve his lie.

By grounding his club on the bridge he could not improve his lie, nor could he test the surface more than what he already knew about it.

mike
20th October 2004, 08:57 PM
You need to consider the intent of the rule to understand the situation.


By grounding his club on the bridge he could not improve his lie, nor could he test the surface more than what he already knew about it.



He could very well have dropped the clubhead behind the ball to test how much give the timber would have. Maybe, maybe not.

I can't see the difference between grounding your club on a timber bridge in a hazard and grounding your club on a hard pan surface in a hazard. No real advantage gained either way, but the rules do state you can't ground your club.

McMw
20th October 2004, 09:11 PM
OK so if my ball is in the water hazard ( note most of the time there's no water in them up here ) and the ball is sitting near the bridge and the bridge is impeding my swing, can I drop away from the bridge ?

I would say no.

without looking at the rules - it's a big no already....
to the best of my knowledge, there is no relief from a water hazard...


as for grounding you club in the hazard...the intent could be as simple as finding out how soft it is under the top layer???

pretty common sense to know that timber or concrete bridge IS NOT going to be SOFT under... :lol:

it's like being in a bunker that's crusty on the top, and fluffy under...
:wink:

mike
20th October 2004, 09:25 PM
Ok I've done some reseach and found it was a local rule that stated the bridge was an immovable obstruction and you can ground your club on an immovable obstruction. Apparantly this was explained on the BBC during their telecast by the chief rules guy.