So, are the Aussie Cricketers bad sportsmen ?

[3oneday]

I am reading all this stuff how Ponting should be sacked, and now how Herb Elliott, John Bertrand and Rob De Castella want to give them lessons in humility :roll:. They say the Aussies are arrogant and they are treating sport like war.

Myself and my wife sat down and watched the conclusion to the test on Sunday, as did I believe over 2 million Australians. Sitting there I could not sense that we were cheating, but I could sense they were trying to win.

If we couldn't see how badly they were behaving on the TV, how come everyone else can ??? I'm confused, apparently 75% of people who voted in these polls believe the Aussies were bad for the sport. I'm assuming the 20,000 actually at the cricket that day didn't vote :lol: but what am I missing here.

Are the Aussies bad sportsmen ? Clarke not walking for an edge to 1st slip was average behavior but that smacks of a lack of confidence in the umps, as well as probable shock as it was the first ball of his innings.... the rest of them ?

[goughy]

Unless plainly obvious, how many batsmen walk on not-obvious nicks? Gilchrist would be about it, and he copped flack for walking to often and not leaving it to the umps.

And didn't one of the indians stand his ground after the umps gave him out? Clarks catch wasn't it! That's bad sportsmanship.

I agree the level of sledging is too personal, and too crude. But that's from everyone. Wasn't McGrath the king of sledgers - yet my sister said (and it's well known) that he was the nicest most pleasant person off the field.

[markTHEblake]

And didn't one of the indians stand his ground after the umps gave him out? Clarks catch wasn't it! That's bad sportsmanship.

not quite, Ganguly waited for the umpire to give him out on the basis that there was some doubt about the catch. The replays showed that he was quite right to stand his ground and wait for the umpires finger.

On the other hand when Clarke didnt walk - the catch was obvious, but he was hoping the umpire would rule the ball didnt come off the bat, which was also obvious.

The issue with Clarkes catch off Ganguly is that Ponting wants umpires/batsmen to trust the fielders to judge their own catches, yet in the case of Michael Clarke, he showed that in the heat of the moment he cannot be trusted to be 100% honest.

In the same match Symonds also said that he knew he was out and didnt walk, so the whole issue of trusting players word is making the Australians look somewhat hypocritical.

I wouldnt say the Australians are bad sportsmen per se, but the side issues that came out of this match certainly had everything to do with the way they play the game.

[Moe Norman]

they are good at sport, but they are bad sportsmen.

This includes Gilchrist who has created a rosey image of himself, but f#cked it up.

[AndyP]

Why single out the Australians for not walking when they edge it?
All sides do it.

[miro]

The Aussies are no worse than any other team -Kumble himself appealed after a delivery that was played to mid-off for two runs -LBW apparently.

The only person bought before the ref after a game for badc onduct so far has been an indian.

I would acknowledge that the whole game needs to lift its behavioural stance.

[Moe Norman]

Why single out the Australians for not walking when they edge it?
All sides do it.

because they are the ones that harp on about an honesty system, but only want it enforced when they are fielding.

Then to top it off, after getting the opposition to agree to said system, they twice claim catches they didn't complete.

Then we have our Vice-Captain who openly states he is a walker and has proven it in the past. He also claims he never appeals unless he thinks its out. Have a look at the Dravid dismissal, look at Gilchrist - and tell me he is being true to his word.....

[Bruce]

What does the TK option mean?
and what should I vote for in my belief that they are fairly ordinary but no worse than every other test playing nation?

[miro]

[QUOTE=Moe Norman;202903]
Then to top it off, after getting the opposition to agree to said system, they twice claim catches they didn't complete.
QUOTE]

Moe,

Just for clarity lets get this absolutely straight:

1. You are claiming Michael Clarke blatantly and knowlingly cheated.

2. You are claiming Ricky Ponting blatantly and knowlingly cheated.

Can you provide clear evidence that this is the case.


I assume that you also do not support the suspension of Singh? I assume this is because there is no clear independent evidence? Just wondering.

[dc68]

They can all go and get ****ed (formers greats and hall of famers)and the curry munching ****wits can piss off back to ragheadsville for all I care.

[PeteyD]

The suspension of Singh on a he said he said is a joke. Different if umpires etc had heard it. Also he was baited, possibly by something a lot worse.

I think calling for Pontings head is silly and devisive, but the media seem to have it in for him.

The worst thing about the test was Bucknors performance, and his efforts have been pretty crap for the year. Players do not have to walk, but the things he missed were pretty shocking. I think the Indians have done us a favour by getting him booted!

[PeteyD]

Nice to see a level headed and sensible statement from DC for a change

[Eag's]

They can all go and get ****ed (formers greats and hall of famers)and the curry munching ****wits can piss off back to ragheadsville for all I care.

C'mon mate, don't hold back, tell us what you really think :lol:

[3oneday]

It seems clear that if the umpiring wasn't so crap all test, the players would have all been in better moods ?

Although, I have noticed the Aussies tend to get a bit bad tempered when they spend a long time in the field. This goes back to the Waugh days though and is not something that is new.

[3oneday]

What does the TK option mean?Tyre Kickers option :)

[rocket]

The Aussie team talk about honesty and integrity, which team felt it so necessary to win they bowled underarm, as far as i am concerned the Aussie cricketers have had a win at all cost mentality for many years.

[miro]

Finally some sanity in the press -all you Aussie haters should have a read of this article and broaden your horizons just a little bit.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23025954-601,00.html

A couple of things to note and consider if you can't be bothered reading the whole thing:

"The Australians claim Harbhajan used the slur on the third day of the Test and revealed that he had said it during the racism-marred series in India last October. What would the pontificators have said if it were an Australian player accused of racially abusing an Indian? Hopefully, Australian cricket would have responded with respect for the process, outrage at the crime and shame that we would treat people in such a manner.

Instead, a tired and emotional Indian team spat the dummy and sat in its Sydney hotel refusing to go on."

"As for Bucknor, it is easy to forget just how silent the Indians were last year when the same umpire did not give Sreesanth out in the fading minutes of the first Test against England. Most commentators believed the bowler was LBW, and had he been given out, the English would have won the Test and the series would have finished one-all.

India remains silent about that.

India also remains silent about Tendulkar being given not out when apparently LBW early in his first innings in Sydney.

Tendulkar made 154 not out, and nobody complained.

The Indians complain about two catches claimed by Australians in the match, but remain mute about a catch that captain-in-waiting Mahendra Singh Dhoni claimed in the Test against England. The umpire gave batsman Kevin Pietersen out when Dhoni appealed, but the decision had to be changed when replays showed the ball clearly bounced first.

India remains silent about that. "



If you are on the anti Aussie bandwagon and beleive India to have been robbed and are totally innocent and trust worthy perhaps it is time you looked at the facts and your own personal bias.

[miro]

On a similar topic but separate note -re the Symonds Singh racial thing. For those supporting the Indians read this and think about your position.

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/yoursay/index.php/theaustralian/comments/praise_ponting_dont_bury_him/

[Bruce]

Well found miro.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. India are certainly no saints and for them to sulk in their tent is a bit rich.

[PeteyD]

Just shows that Bucknor should have been retired earlier.

[just]

Miro
It's not about being anti-Aussie. Are you claiming that because someone criticises the Australian cricket team they don't love their country. That's a cop out and disgraceful.
The Australian cricket team are a bunch of disgraceful, poorly mannered boors-they don't have to be because they have the talent to win without the sledging and bad behaviour. Their behaviour reflects poorly on us as a nation. Just because the Indians were also poorly behaved doesn't justify the Australian teams behaviour.
Indians sulking is reprehensible, as is the gloating of the Australians.
If you want to defend the Australian cricket team find examples of exemplary behaviour, those articles, and the examples of poor Indian behaviour shown, just show what poor sportsman the Australian cricket team and some supporters are.
If both teams are going to be fair dinkum they need to re-claim the high moral ground and stop acting like spoiled children.

[miro]

Just,

We are on the same page. My point is not to necessarily say I love the Aussie teams conduct rather it was targeted at the "anti aussie" brigade which also means the pro indian brigade who fail to see that the indians are not exactly clean cut in this matter.

[3oneday]

The Australian cricket team are a bunch of disgraceful, poorly mannered boors-they don't have to be because they have the talent to win without the sledging and bad behaviour. Their behaviour reflects poorly on us as a nation.I watched the cricket over the weekend so I didn't see the Symond/Singh incident.... I didn't hear any sledging, I didn't see what I term bad behavior (Lillee/Miandad), I saw poor judgement in not walking after a catch at first slip, I didn't hear Hogg call Kumble a bastard of some description.....

My point is, how are these opinions being formed ? are we assuming too much ? are we trusting the media is giving us informed opinion... or just their opinion ? There should be a difference, but I don't think there is.

[Bruce]

Spanky Roebuck's call for Ponting's sacking had a few factual errors in it. The media shouldn't be picking up any stones either.

[kristofor]

fact is the whole thing is way out of proportion.

India are acting like absolute idiots. Plain and simple. We don't actually know what Singh said to Symonds, we and th emedia are assuming the term monkey was involved. However even so it is a big overreation so there might be more to the alegation.

Also re- the umpires. They made bad decisions, but so do pretty much every umpire. It always happens in every match there is a decision that should have gone the other way. We just see it because of the cameras. It happens in club cricket as well, and people complain for a few hours and then get over it. India has to get over it. They are acting like babies. I am not saying the aussies are not complaining, but fair go they have to play with the same umpires so just as much chance a decision would go india's way and this has happened.

Also with the catching. The cameras often can't pick up the catches. Clarkes catch was not really caught on camera from a helpful angle. He claimed it, and so it should be out. Same for club cricket, the umpires always go off the word of the player. I have often turned down catched if I think they hit the ground. You just can't tell using cameras.

India was right saying only one team played in the spirit of the game, and I certainly don't think it's them!

[Fishman Dan]

I would like to think that Clarke wouldn't have claimed it if he was unsure. There was one semi-conclusive angle, and that looked like it was a half-volley but you don't know if he had fingers jammed under the ball on the ground.

I'm certain a 3rd umpire referral would have ruled in the favour of the batsman, which isn't to say that was the correct decision either.

[imoveableobstruction]

I love the double standards , Ponting showed great self control during the post match where Kumble acted like a spoilt sulky brat yet this whole thing has gone from a test with bad umpiring and an accusation of racial abuse to it being all about the Aussie team being bad sports. The Indians now have all they wanted, H Singh playing out all the tests.

[damoocow]

without a doubt the best summer of cricket EVER !!! - I am loving every moment - whoo hoo....................

damoocow

[just]

fact is the whole thing is way out of proportion.

India are acting like absolute idiots. Plain and simple. We don't actually know what Singh said to Symonds, we and th emedia are assuming the term monkey was involved. However even so it is a big overreation so there might be more to the alegation.

Also re- the umpires. They made bad decisions, but so do pretty much every umpire. It always happens in every match there is a decision that should have gone the other way. We just see it because of the cameras. It happens in club cricket as well, and people complain for a few hours and then get over it. India has to get over it. They are acting like babies. I am not saying the aussies are not complaining, but fair go they have to play with the same umpires so just as much chance a decision would go india's way and this has happened.

Also with the catching. The cameras often can't pick up the catches. Clarkes catch was not really caught on camera from a helpful angle. He claimed it, and so it should be out. Same for club cricket, the umpires always go off the word of the player. I have often turned down catched if I think they hit the ground. You just can't tell using cameras.

India was right saying only one team played in the spirit of the game, and I certainly don't think it's them!


I love the double standards , Ponting showed great self control during the post match where Kumble acted like a spoilt sulky brat yet this whole thing has gone from a test with bad umpiring and an accusation of racial abuse to it being all about the Aussie team being bad sports. The Indians now have all they wanted, H Singh playing out all the tests.

Thats it boys! Thats the Aussie spirit-it was all the other guys fault, we was totally innocent your honour!

Open your eyes, both teams were at fault! They were both disgraceful.

The umpiring wasn't just bad it was just plain discgraceful. And as for Singh playing the rest of the tests he shouldn't have got the ban in the first place.

[imoveableobstruction]

Both teams may well have been at fault and it sounds like Hogg was probably more at fault than anyone. Having said that I stand by my post, Kumble acted like a twat.
How do you think it would go if I burnt effigies or the Indian flag out on the street in Brissy tonight?

[markTHEblake]

Finally some sanity in the press

yes, there is quite a lot of insanity in the press too, much more.


India remains silent about that.

these issues are well known to anyone with with a link to cricinfo on their desktop. The fact remains is, the Indians are not claiming they can be trusted to Umpire catches.

[Bruce]

The fact remains is, the Indians are not claiming they can be trusted to Umpire catches.

Of course they are. They signed up for the agreement too - they just haven't been tested yet.

[markTHEblake]

You are dead right Bruce. All the cricket teams have been wanting this for years. Australia has always been the one stick in the mud that never wanted it :lol:

I wonder if anyone will ever agree to this again

[Moe Norman]

[quote=Moe Norman;202903]
Then to top it off, after getting the opposition to agree to said system, they twice claim catches they didn't complete.
QUOTE]

Moe,

Just for clarity lets get this absolutely straight:

1. You are claiming Michael Clarke blatantly and knowlingly cheated.

2. You are claiming Ricky Ponting blatantly and knowlingly cheated.

Can you provide clear evidence that this is the case.


I assume that you also do not support the suspension of Singh? I assume this is because there is no clear independent evidence? Just wondering.

Lets be clear. I don't think the Clarke 'catch' bounced before it got to him, he just didn't legally complete the catch.

Not sure about knowingly, but both of them blatantly claimed catches they didn't complete.

Evidence here:

http://datastore.rediff.com/images/briefcase/56565C686468605965636E645E7064/yu9kei12aqn8wtcr.D.0.07ponting.jpg

Ball clearly grounded while still in action of completing the catch (need control over both the ball and your body)

Same with Clarke below attached...

[Bruce]

Those cheating cricketers....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RErkvomIAsU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ofCYo7k7M9Q

More as I find them

[markTHEblake]

Ball clearly grounded while still in action of completing the catch (need control over both the ball and your body)

Same with Clarke below attached...

interesting about Clarke grounding the ball, i dont think anybody considered that at the time - commentators certainly didnt mention it. I simply thought it was a fair catch.

We could dig up scores of catches claimed, that were proven not out on video, it doesnt mean the players themselves are cheats, because they were not the ones who made the decision. It just proves they are not reliable adjudicators.

[macjackass]

IMO some of the Australian teams antics makes me cringe. The Michael Clarke thing in particular (not walking). That said, the Indians are worse. The way they carry on at home is an absolute disgrace and don't even get me started on the crowd behaviour over there. Appalling is nowhere a strong enough term. With regard to the "monkey" incident, I'd rather be a "monkey" (I think he has a West Indian background) than an Indian!

[goughy]

It's sport! There are bad sports everywhere! The thing that makes some sportspeople stand out from the crowd is when they are forthright and outstanding statesmen/women. Federer for example.

And forget the cricketers! You wanna see bad sportspeople, look for the ones phoning abuse to pontings parents etc. Anything any of the teams have done pales in comparison to that. And these will be the same people calling for pontings head and calling him and the aussie team bad sportsmen.

Can we just get some cricket back! I wanna see the aussies smash india in brissie on the 3rd.

[3oneday]

And forget the cricketers! You wanna see bad sportspeople, look for the ones phoning abuse to pontings parents etc. Anything any of the teams have done pales in comparison to that. And these will be the same people calling for pontings head and calling him and the aussie team bad sportsmen.whipped into a frenzy by the media, as per usual. The media here has as much to answer in this debacle as anyone does.

I wonder if there might be a new chant at the cricket next week "..... a bastard, ..... a bastard" :lol:

[Moe Norman]

Peter Roebuck certainly didn't help things, and he obviously had a few grudges he wanted to solidify...

[Moe Norman]

is an accurate observation racism?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/images/694199.jpg

[Bruce]

Racism - yes.
Accurate - no.

Are you endorsing this point of view Thommo? or just being a shit stirrer?

[Moe Norman]

neither really.

Personally, I believe he looks like a monkey/gorilla, but it has nothing to do with his race.

Just as I think Arjuna looked like a Pig, Murali looks like a rodent and McGrath looks like a Pigeon.

Unfortunately, its hard to prove you're not being racist when making such observations in certain cases, which be default makes those accusing you of being racist - racist.

Is it not accurate to say that he looks like a Monkey? Look past the colour of his skin and just admit that he looks like a primate of some description.

[markTHEblake]

Unfortunately, its hard to prove you're not being racist when making such observations in certain cases

Is the certain case you refer to, something like if the 'you' in this context is melanin challenged, and the target of the remark is melanin plentiful?

[Fishman Dan]

Moe - you realise you have highlighted the lookalikes thread as now being un-PC. Damn shit-stirrers....

[AndyP]

Symonds looks nothing like a monkey, but the monkey looks like Symonds when it makes that facial expression. :roll:

[markTHEblake]

is an accurate observation racism?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/images/694199.jpg

do you reckon a decent haircut and a shave might have helped avoid all the fuss?

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/958/r133472447172qx0.jpg

[3oneday]

It'd be a pretty cool monkey if it had the same hair as Symonds 8)

[Moe Norman]

apparently Harbajhan called him to apologise - he also asked him if he was getting a good deal on his long distance calls :)

[3oneday]

Apparently the senior players are wanting to boycott the one dayers if he is not let off the charge. And people say the Aussies are bad sportsmen.... the Indians are all spoilt ****ing brats....

Don't let them boycott, send them home !

The catcalls at the WACA should be good value, apparently there were a few of the weaker variety at the ACT match yesty :)

[AndyP]

Send them home now. The Aussies have already retained the Border-Gavaskar Trophy, there's too many one-dayers anyway, and as for the Twenty20 match...........

[Fishman Dan]

Extend footy season! Make it start on Australia day and go through to November!

[goughy]

Can't think of anything worse than that FD, regardless of code!

But my odds of playing at wynnum are getting better ;)

[PeteyD]

He doesn't even look black. I didn't even realise he was, however that explains the monkey thing better now.

[Bruce]

And a new question just popped into my head.

If Australia are so bad - Which test-playing nation should they model their behaviour on?

[just]

Bruce

How about they model themselves on no one and instead try to be the best they can be (and I mean in all aspects of their on-field behaviour)?
Win with honour, instead of win at all costs?

Just

[markTHEblake]

The catcalls at the WACA should be good value, apparently there were a few of the weaker variety at the ACT match yesty :)

crowds are not allowed to make fun of the players anymore, dont you remember what happened in India.

[Moe Norman]

And a new question just popped into my head.

If Australia are so bad - Which test-playing nation should they model their behaviour on?

Probably none of them, but the West Indies would be a good start.

The thing is, none of these other nations have a 'spirit of cricket' document espousing to the world that they are saints.

[AndyP]

So the problem isn't that they are bad sportsmen, but that they are hypocrites? Which is worse?

[markTHEblake]

They are neither, but the line is a bit blurry and the meter is wobbling towards it.

Only one way to fix this. Symonds walks out to bat in the next Test match wearing a Gorilla mask, goes straight to Harby and pretends to pick of some fleas, gives him a big hug. Everyone will piss themselves laughing, they will shake hands and there will be no more problems. And nobody will call Symonds a monkey again because he has shown he can laugh it off.

I hope it happens, but i doubt it.

[Hush Puppy]

IMHO one M. Clarke cheated knowingly and deliberatly to secure the sixth wicket in the Hobart match of the Chappell Hadlee trophy only three weeks ago. His word, that he has caught any ball means nought to me.
This person is a protected creature and its got me beat why?

[Fishman Dan]

IMHO one M. Clarke cheated knowingly and deliberatly to secure the sixth wicket in the Hobart match of the Chappell Hadlee trophy only three weeks ago. His word, that he has caught any ball means nought to me.
This person is a protected creature and its got me beat why?

I don't recall? But I think the "eagerness to win" has clouded the eyes of some of these guys.

Interesting comments by Kerry O'Keefe the other day. He enjoyed County Cricket, where generally all players walked if they nicked one. He came back to Australia (this is 25 years ago) and was bitterly disappointed that no one walked back home. The spirit of the game was much healthier in the UK.

That along with Symonds public acknowledgement that "Yeah, I nicked it", almost gloating in the press about that edge from the Sydney test, is a blight on the game.