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terryand
22nd September 2004, 12:18 PM
I am a little concerned in what direction this forum is heading in relation to threads being deleted just because ones views are not the same as our administrators and moderators. I thought the whole idea of the site was to talk golf gear, a subject of many opinions and ‘rights’, when taking into account individual preferences, skills and budgets.

Wouldn’t it be a boring forum if we all used the same clubs and agreed with what one another said all the time? I enjoy the banter we bounce off one another, especially knowing that most is said in fun and is very light hearted.

I think the one of the many qualities of this forum is the fact that there are so many different personalities and views, that we all can draw on in times of need. Perhaps in order to protect this quality we need some ‘black and white’ guidelines, as many other forums have (be it golf or other), so that we all know where the boundaries are? I also think that if guidelines or site rules are written they should be made by all of us, in a public manner and therefore continue to support the initial notion of this forum as a public and free place to air out views. Simply put, if we understand the boundaries, there is less chance of us upsetting the few.

Furthermore and to clarify my stance, I don’t think any boundaries have been crossed in the deleted threads, explanation of why it was deleted would be appreciated.

I have copped my far share of ribbing on this forum for one reason or another (as have many of us). To me that is just part n parcel of when a heap of mates get together, which I consider have made quite a few good mates since I started posting. It’s no different to copping a sledging on the golf course or copping it sitting around a table at a pub with your mates. Most time I think I give as good as I get. I have learnt with you guys if something is going against me, I just stop posting and giving you more fuel for the fire, simple.

We have a good thing happening here, let’s keep it that way. I can’t see why we all can’t take the good with the bad, because to me the good far out weigh the bad.

Terry.

Onewood
22nd September 2004, 12:26 PM
I agree :D

Which threads got deleted :?: did I miss something :roll:

AndyP
22nd September 2004, 12:45 PM
Request for this thread to be deleted has been submitted. :wink:

I agree for the most part.


I also think that if guidelines or site rules are written they should be made by all of us, in a public manner and therefore continue to support the initial notion of this forum as a public and free place to air out views.
I'm sure we can have some input into the guidelines, but at the end of the day it is the administrators and moderators that have to enforce them. So they should have the last say on what our guidelines are.

Suggestion No 1: There is to be no cleavage (female or male) in avatars. :razz:

andylo
22nd September 2004, 12:58 PM
Agreed most of above.

Fishman Dan
22nd September 2004, 01:04 PM
Suggestion No 1: There is to be no cleavage (female or male) in avatars. :razz:

I've missed the boat here, i have no idea about what was deleted and why, and to be honest I don't really care that much (note that i'm not trying to skittle your plight here Tex).

But i've got to say one thing - i hope that emoticon you chucked in there AP was meant to say "I am being sarcastic" - because otherwise I might have to say - "You've got to be f**king kidding me". Hypothetically, of course.

Give a little, take a little. Build a bridge. Got a hit some golf balls, come back here and tell us how you went. We'll either give you $hit, or we won't ;)

3oneday
22nd September 2004, 01:18 PM
I now feel very cheated, anyone care to share ?? :shock: , noting no administrators or the like have posted in this thread :roll:

Jarro
22nd September 2004, 01:27 PM
nothing to see here ... move along :wink:

Let's not go taking ourselves too seriously here folks, it is a place to come and talk crap after all .... let's keep it that way 8)

Peace brothers :!:

AndyP
22nd September 2004, 01:31 PM
I now feel very cheated, anyone care to share ?? :shock:
Not really, except I will tell you that the thread deleted was the one relating to Iain using the Pings.


noting no administrators or the like have posted in this thread
it looks "the like" has just popped in. :wink:

AndyP
22nd September 2004, 01:33 PM
Suggestion No 1: :razz:
But i've got to say one thing - i hope that emoticon you chucked in there AP was meant to say "I am being sarcastic" - because otherwise I might have to say - "You've got to be f**king kidding me". Hypothetically, of course.
You're right. I'll amend it.

1. There is to be no cleavage (female or male or dinosaurs) in avatars. :mrgreen:

3oneday
22nd September 2004, 01:45 PM
[-X :smt008

Trung
22nd September 2004, 01:55 PM
2. There should be no picture of toddler holding a trophy belonging to someone else :wink:

McMw
22nd September 2004, 02:11 PM
I now feel very cheated, anyone care to share ?? :shock:
Not really, except I will tell you that the thread deleted was the one relating to Iain using the Pings.


WHY??? :?

AndyP
22nd September 2004, 02:13 PM
2. There should be no picture of toddler holding a trophy belonging to someone else :wink:
I'll take another picture without him holding it, if this one offends you.
Alternatively, I can put the old one back, because he wasn't a toddler then. :smt016

AndyP
22nd September 2004, 02:25 PM
Thanks for explaining it, g69. I didn't really want to go into it or couldn't be bothered.



Is there any way you can get a pic of the trophy with Judd's missus ?
Maybe. But I would have to get her to hold it in front of the split in her dress, to avoid being offensive.

3oneday
22nd September 2004, 03:00 PM
on the Ping thread, complaining that the Ping content point proven, I saw the word Ping and moved on straight away :smt019 :lol: thus why I didn't miss anything then :wink:

clikchic
22nd September 2004, 03:28 PM
Hi Guys

I want to clarify a few things with regards to threads being deleted.

There is one particular thread that related to members of another forum which had some derogatory comments about members of that forum. It has been said from the outset that disrespectful behaviour will not be tolerated on this forum. Ribbing is one thing but calling names or being disrespectful is another thing altogether.

I want make it clear right here and now that it was me that deleted the above thread as it simply did not belong on this forum.

With regards to the thread that was deleted last night. In my opinion it shouldn't have been. I did not read the offensive post but having spoken to goughy it did sound as if it was pretty close to crossing the line. In that case, it should have been the one post that was deleted not the whole thread.

I have been moderating email lists and forums for 5 years now and have had to handle and moderate quite a few disaggreements. The key to moderating is to remain objective. This is something that is very hard to do when you are directly involved or when you are close friends with those the disagreement involves.

With people from many different walks of life and with many different opinions, it is inevitable that at times opinions will clash. The key is to remain respectful to other people whos opinions are different from yours.

At this point I have decided that the best way to handle this and to prevent situations like these from happening from future is to take over the administrative duties myself. It is easier for me to remain impartial and having been moderating for 5 years I have gotten plenty of practise at remaining objective ensuring the fairest outcome for all involved.

I have decided for this reason as webmistress I will remove goughy and jaster as administrators and jarro as moderator. I will install a reporting system onto the forum so that if there is a post that a reader finds offensive they can report it to me and I will take appropriate action.

I have a set of rules written for the email lists that I moderate and I will adapt these to suit the ozgolf forum.

With regards to the avatars. As a female viewing the forums, while you can see avatars such as those currently being displayed on magazines that is irrelevant. This is a GOLF forum and as a female I find it rather annoying having to view such avatars all the time. If it annoys me it is likely it annoys other females as well. I am sure many of you would feel the same if I used a revealing photo of a male for my avatar? If it were only me that the avatars annoyed, I would not consider it an issue but the fact that the matter gets brought up over and over again tells me that others find it offensive also. For this reason I will be including rules about avatars in my forum guidleines and would appreciate if those who have avatars with revealing cleavage that they be removed ASAP.

In future any posts which I find unclear in their meaning, that is if it is not obviously ribbing, and I believe to be disrespectful of your fellow ozgolf members it will be removed. If it appears ambiguous to me there is no doubt it would be ambiguous to others as well. Out right slanging simply will not be tolerated and depending on the severity posts will either be removed or the member in question will be removed after a warning.

Once I have put together the guidelines I will post them in the 19th hole where they will remain for all to see.

Regards
Robyn
(ozgolf admin)

amanda
22nd September 2004, 03:33 PM
Thanks Robyn - cleavage avatars just make it harder for new ladies to join us.

McMw
22nd September 2004, 03:38 PM
nice work.... :D
agree with all...but how much "ribbing" is too much "ribbing"??? :wink:



so again - when did this happen??? :shock:

There is one particular thread that related to members of another forum which had some derogatory comments about members of that forum. It has been said from the outset that disrespectful behaviour will not be tolerated on this forum.

Fishman Dan
22nd September 2004, 03:38 PM
Hooley dooley... with a post like that, and a signature with fairies and teddy bears....

Are you bi-polar CC?

;)

amanda
22nd September 2004, 03:43 PM
That was weird - I posted - but then it appears as a quote - and now there is extra text there!

I am not going crazy (I don't think)

amanda
22nd September 2004, 03:44 PM
Wow, thats an awful lot of words to read clic...can someone cut to the chase and tell me if the red dressed avatar has to go ?
And can I keep sledging andyp about orange shirts ?
Yes the red dress avatar has to go.
You can keep sledging Andippy as long as it's friendly :D

AndyP
22nd September 2004, 03:51 PM
And can I keep sledging andyp about orange shirts ?
Only if it is not about low-cut orange shirts.

Now that the avatars are going, what am I meant to stir you guys about? :?

clikchic
22nd September 2004, 03:52 PM
Thanks Robyn - cleavage avatars just make it harder for new ladies to join us.

I agree Amanda! The more the merrier! ;-)

clikchic
22nd September 2004, 03:54 PM
Hooley dooley... with a post like that, and a signature with fairies and teddy bears....

Are you bi-polar CC?

;)

Cue Twilight zone music! ...... :lol:

Trung
22nd September 2004, 03:59 PM
Lisa Dergan have been chopped in half.. :roll: .

Now hope to see more sexy female golfers joining this forum :P

clikchic
22nd September 2004, 04:01 PM
That was weird - I posted - but then it appears as a quote - and now there is extra text there!

I am not going crazy (I don't think)

Oops! Sorry Amanda! I clicked the edit button instead of the quote button, I think? I have set it right again now..!

Trung
22nd September 2004, 04:02 PM
I have decided for this reason as webmistress I will remove goughy and jaster as administrators and jarro as moderator.


Welcome back to the real life boys. 8)

clikchic
22nd September 2004, 04:02 PM
Lisa Dergan have been chopped in half.. :roll: .

Now hope to see more sexy female golfers joining this forum :P

Well that wouldn't hurt now would it? It can't hurt to make the place more friendly for more lady golfers (or gay! LOL).

AndyP
22nd September 2004, 04:03 PM
In that case, it should have been the one post that was deleted not the whole thread.
Editing may have been more appropriate, if anything.


At this point I have decided that the best way to handle this and to prevent situations like these from happening from future is to take over the administrative duties myself.
Is this something you really have time for?


In future any posts which I find unclear in their meaning, that is if it is not obviously ribbing, and I believe to be disrespectful of your fellow ozgolf members it will be removed. If it appears ambiguous to me there is no doubt it would be ambiguous to others as well.
Could you please provide an example, so we know if we have crossed the line before? And so we can avoid doing it again. Perhaps you could get goughy to test his memory for a previous occurence.


The Webmistress has spoken. :shock:

Jarro
22nd September 2004, 04:23 PM
I have decided for this reason as webmistress I will remove jarro as moderator.

:( :cry:

terryand
22nd September 2004, 04:26 PM
I have decided for this reason as webmistress I will remove jarro as moderator.

:( :cry:

Please don't hate me I still luvs ya :smt056

Terry.

Jarro
22nd September 2004, 04:31 PM
no worries Tezza :smt023

i was gonna chuck in the job soon anyway, the pressure was getting to me :smt099

... that and all the spiteful PM's i was getting from AndyP :wink:

clikchic
22nd September 2004, 04:42 PM
I have decided for this reason as webmistress I will remove jarro as moderator.

:( :cry:

Sorry Jarro! No offense.. Thanks so much for all your help up until now.. time to put your feet up and have a rest. ;-)

clikchic
22nd September 2004, 04:49 PM
Editing may have been more appropriate, if anything.
Quite possibly, as I did not see the post I can't answer there but that will be another option in future.



Is this something you really have time for?
Not really which is why I am going to install a reporting feature. I will be relying on you guys who read the forum to report any posts which you feel are out of line. I am happy to pop in to sort out issues etc.



Could you please provide an example, so we know if we have crossed the line before? And so we can avoid doing it again. Perhaps you could get goughy to test his memory for a previous occurence.
As long as posts are well intended it shouldn't be a problem. As always make use of smilies so your intentions are clear. I think you really have to use your common sense in this area. The most obvious occurance which I am reluctant to bring up is the 'mongo' thread.


The Webmistress has spoken. :shock:

Don't worry, as long as you play nice I will be nice! :twisted:

amanda
22nd September 2004, 05:49 PM
Now hope to see more sexy female golfers joining this forum :P
What - the three of us that are on here aren't enough for ya :wink:

Iain
22nd September 2004, 06:00 PM
Now hope to see more sexy female golfers joining this forum :P
What - the three of us that are on here aren't enough for ya :wink:
The more the merrier..... 8)

Trung
22nd September 2004, 07:04 PM
So if we adopt the "clean avatar" theme for a month and get no additional female members, we can change back to the smut ?? :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

nudgee
22nd September 2004, 08:28 PM
I was not going to respond anymore to this issue but reading this thread I cannot remain silent - I have reviewed my post 10 times and I cannot find anything in my post that was either, personal, offensive or crossing the line.

I have been on many forums for many years and I have never ever attacked anyone personally or have been offensive to anyone (except for those p#$ks at TSG that owed me money). Those that have gotten to know me through ISG and this forum know that I would never attack anyone - so for the life of me I have no idea why my post was deleted - bordering on crossing the line - what da???

I guess I will stick with golfer69s motto and if I dont like somethng on this forum, I will ignore it and not contribute thougths!! As Terry says if we all did this then this site would be a pretty boring forum. We are all different and we all have a common denominator - our passion for golf - there is nothing wrong with difference of opinions, debate and discussions.

For Gods sake lets put all this into perspective, there are people getting beheaded in IRAQ and we are concerned because of a post that did not agree with someones comments - pffffff please.

Anyway I will make sure that I will adhere to the guidelines as defined by golfchic - I really dont think there was a need to "sack" Jaster, Goughy and Jarro - I thought they were doing a great job - regardless I am sure Golfchic will do a fabulous job.

I guess if I stick to Buy/Sell/Trade and answering PMs I will be safe then :wink:

nudgee
22nd September 2004, 08:31 PM
Ooooops my apologies - its clikchic - not golfchic.

Onewood
22nd September 2004, 08:35 PM
great response 8)

Now lets get back with it :P 8)

McMw
22nd September 2004, 09:29 PM
ah...it was nudgee.... 8)

I actually read that post of his last night...thought it was funny, and defn gentle ribbing (IMO) of jaster...

but I guess it touched a RAW nerve... :roll: :lol:



oh well...what's done is done... :!:

jaster
22nd September 2004, 09:46 PM
I deleted the PING threads, both of them as I feel the reasons for me starting them were both genuine but felt that both posts degraded to a point where the general tone of these threads weren't good for the forum.

Now don't get me wrong, I personally was not offended by what was said as I am a big (well fat) boy and can handle anything, but I think we need to seriously realise that we are a public forum therefore I feel that we need to consider this in each and everyone of our posts. Most of us know each other on here but we have had a lot of new members join, do 1 or 2 posts and then never post again. Please ask yourself why you think this is? I don't think we need a set of rules telling us what we should and shouldn't do, afterall aren't we all fairly well educated (I don't mean study I mean in life) people?

Probably in hindsight I overreacted with the deletion and for this I apologise, but I stand by my decision and the topic of this post further convinces me that I feel I no longer should have any official part in ozgolf and FWIW I actually resigned this afternoon before clickchics post.

Yes, I probably do take my golf forums a little too serious but I take my golf deadly serious and feel I should not have to lie or pander my posts one way or another. If I have something to say I say it, if I don't then I don't. This is what obviously caused the tension in my threads and is something I will try and refrain from in the future.

Anyway, there are no hard feelings and I thank you all for the time spent as Admin. I will obviously be a little more careful in future with what I post but hope that rather than publically air any dirty laundry that a PM or 2 might be a smarter way to go.

Jaster

clikchic
22nd September 2004, 09:53 PM
FWIW I actually resigned this afternoon before clickchics post.



Sorry Jaster, I wasn't sure if you wanted me to say anything or not, I didn't see your email until after I sent in my post. ;-)

jaster
22nd September 2004, 10:00 PM
It's cool Robyn :) No sweat!! Now get too bed :P Oh yeah and tell goughy that I think we'll play the front 9 in the morning ;)

Jarro
23rd September 2004, 04:25 AM
guys... i still can't help but feel that this litle episode has been blown all out of proportion :shock:

I agree with Mau, i only saw some good-natured gentle ribbing in the posts.. nothing malicious.

lets try and kep this place running smoothly.. and not have an episode here like what happened "over there" a while ago :x

We're all grown-ups here.. so let's just have some fun and keep this great website going the way it has been for the past 4 months 8)

3oneday
23rd September 2004, 07:42 AM
Gee, G, and I was gunna start being nice to you [-X :smt019 :smt021 :smt012

NOT

Fishman Dan
23rd September 2004, 07:55 AM
I just want to get one thing perfectly straight.
If the little snipes, the sly innuendoes, the sarcasm, the niggling, and the childish humour ceases.....I'm outta here ! :evil:
That's the only reason I come. :roll:

Yep. Don't want to sound like a protagonist, but i think we old enough to understand where we are all coming from. I (would like to) think we're also sensible enough to know that anyone having a go is just making fun.

But i still think one users comment (forgotten who to be honest) is most pertinent:

If you don't want to see cleavage, bottoms, boobs, horror, nastiness and all the rest - you wouldn't turn on your TV.

The comment that female golfers would be turned away by 'boyish' avatars is quite ridiculous. Go to ANY online forum - game based, tech based, special-interest-group based and you will find much worse than i've seen here.

Ducky
23rd September 2004, 08:51 AM
I agree. One of the reasons I enjoy this forum/community so much is because everyone is able to have fun and enjoy each others company. When you start enforcing rules and telling members how to behave, the experience becomes less enjoyable. I think it's a sign of good character when someone is able to take a smart-ass comment on the chin and give them (smart-ass comments) back just as well.

Just my opinion.

Kind regards,

Ben (Ducky).

Ducky
23rd September 2004, 09:06 AM
It is, it really is!

:D

Kind regards,

Ben (Ducky).

clikchic
23rd September 2004, 09:14 AM
Guys we are NEVER going to be able to please everyone and I just have to use my best judgement on this. :cry: :roll: :cry:

People were requesting guidelines so I have provided them. People were complaining about the deleted threads so I have done my best to resolve the issue. The avatar issue was being brought up over and over again so I have added that to the guidelines.

Quite honestly I am sick of the b*tching, are we adults or a bunch of teenage girls? :?

GET OVER IT! Sheesh! :roll: It is NOT that big a deal!

I think it is time we put this to rest already and let things get back to normal. :cry:

McMw
23rd September 2004, 09:15 AM
perhaps a good idea to lock this thread down... :?:

Fishman Dan
23rd September 2004, 09:17 AM
perhaps a good idea to lock this thread down... :?:

:smt023

clikchic
23rd September 2004, 09:18 AM
perhaps a good idea to lock this thread down... :?:

:smt023

You know what, good plan! I have been restraining myself but enough is enough....