AT 100 Metres from green what do you think of [Archive]

addamsmith

9th June 2007, 09:40 PM

Moe Norman

9th June 2007, 09:59 PM

punched 8 iron straight at the flag.

BrisVegas

9th June 2007, 10:04 PM

first thing i'd think is what distance have i got. 132m to the flag. max 136m.

Second thing i'd think is what shape shot do i need to hit. As the flag is close to the left edge and the back, id imagine coming in with a draw landing short and releasing to the flag.

20kmh wind will hurt the distance a draw shot will go in this case. Now for me, a full swing with 9 iron is about 135. The wind will probably take 10 mtrs off my shot, but that's fine, as I only want to land the shot around the 125m mark anyway.

i'd hood the face of the 9 iron a bit, aim at my target, just right and short of the flag and put a smooth swing on it.

addamsmith

9th June 2007, 10:16 PM

Great anwser Dion,
Moe very strategic,

Keep em coming guys
There is a good reason for this, to do with thinking before you hit and why.

Jarro

9th June 2007, 10:25 PM

I'd probably hit a nice little 8 iron at the middle of the green, then drain the putt to beat Moe off the stick ... this forcing him to buy me quite a few beers in the clubhouse (which by the way is full of topless waitresses)

:mrgreen:

markTHEblake

9th June 2007, 10:34 PM

feet close together, front foot dragged back, all weight in left side. (is stance is impact position)
8 iron off the back foot, low and hard.

actually thats what i always hit from <150 so the situation doesnt make any difference to me.

goughy

9th June 2007, 10:41 PM

In those conditions, full pw aimed at the left edge of the green, with the intention of the wind carrying it somewhere onto the middle of the green, and at the least the green somewhere. 2 putts from the center half of the green back. If I got there and felt a bit edgy about the shot, then same intentions with a 9 iron. I doubt with the wind it would float over the back, but the pw would feel more like the fat of the green.

And there is no pin. What pin you say? There is only the middle of the green.

Andrew

9th June 2007, 11:28 PM

As you approach the ball what is the first thing you think of ?

Boobs

What club are you going to play ?

My 6 iron, because I thought it was my 9 iron

What shot are you going to play ?

A duck hook

And why ?

Because I was thinking about boobs.

Coffs_Hacker

9th June 2007, 11:34 PM

9 iron punched.
thinking - Don't hit it fat into the water, don't push it, don't pull hook, don't knife it, don't hit it long

Crap i am going to do one of these so please don't miss the green by too much ------Sad but true-------

addamsmith

9th June 2007, 11:45 PM

Ha ha ha
Man, some of these are good.
Keep em coming
wait till next weeks one this is just the first of 18 holes
You would think we were playing Northlakes hey andy

perci

10th June 2007, 05:33 AM

What number hole would this be on as i need to work out how many cans i would have had.

Jono

10th June 2007, 05:35 AM

AndyP

10th June 2007, 08:42 AM

8 iron, with the flag as my aiming target. No punching, no shaping. I don't do that.
I hit an 8 iron about 125m, so there's not much risk of going over the back.
If I hit the ball relatively straight, I'll be around the centre of the green, with more room to the right if I push or slice it (which is my usual mishit).

kpac

10th June 2007, 08:52 AM

try to belt a 9iron, for no other reason but i thought it looked closer than what it is (happens all the time)
i'd aim 30 to 40 left of the flag to alow my shot to drift with slice and wind to end up off the green on the right.
then i'd try a flop shot fromthe fringe to blade it though the green into the drink.

ps: the above -unfortunatelly- is NOT taking the piss, that is a very likely outcome fromthat position.

Oh, and as for "what i'm thinking" -> mmm good drive, let's see if i can't f*&k this up...

perci

10th June 2007, 09:12 AM

Matt 3 Jab

10th June 2007, 09:17 AM

I would be stupid and fire at the pin with a 8 iron, drawing it against the wind to try and hold the left side of the green, start it middle and try and turn the hell out of it. Either end up right of the green (if it didnt draw) with an easy up and down for par or 3 ft from the pin and 3 jab for bogey.

Grunt

10th June 2007, 09:42 AM

Skull an 8 iron to skim thru the water and run up to the pin for a tap in birdie:P No other chance of getting it close.

Moe Norman

10th June 2007, 09:51 AM

Great anwser Dion,
Moe very strategic,

Keep em coming guys
There is a good reason for this, to do with thinking before you hit and why.

with 6m left of te flag, there is still plenty of space left of the flag, especially from 130m. Seeing as there is 20km wind coming from the left and I usually get a slight draw on my punch shots, I figure going at the flag takes the left side out of play, but still leaves a chance of getting it pretty close. Usually fly an 8 iron around 145 m, but with a punch it will shorten to around 135 and generally stop where it lands.

just

10th June 2007, 10:19 AM

7 iron and aim for the middle of the green. I have developed a pull to the left so this would nicely counter the wind.

Peter

10th June 2007, 10:35 AM

You've established that distance control is key, but what about the preferred side to miss? Is the green elevated? Which way does it slope?

Webster

10th June 2007, 11:19 AM

Ok.

Short is dead (water), long is dead (lost ball) and left is dead (short sided, down wind to close pin). Its 132 to the hole, 136 to the back. Left to right wind, plenty of green to the right of the flag. Based on 20 k wind from the left. it should play true to the yardage if the ball is played straight, a little shorter if a fade rides the wind.

I do not want to go short, left or long. Yardage to the middle of the green is 118, leaving 50 feet to the hole. So ideally, the shot will be played to the centre of the green, landing middlish (to avoid the trouble short) and leaving another 50 feet of roll to pin high. My 9 iron carries 126 in still conditions, my 8 carries 138 metres. 8 iron will go too far, 9 iron will be the choice, assuming the green will hold the full shot (if not, it would be a wedge shot which carries 115).

Conservative play to the centre of the green with a nine iron, hoping to land 126 metres and roll about 10-15 feet of so. Leaving a birde putt of 20-25 feet max, and taking all the trouble out of play. It sounds like a difficult hole so i assume i would get a shot here. Happy with a 4, a 3 is a bonus. Avoid the trouble and move on to the next hole.

Courty

10th June 2007, 09:58 PM

For me it depends on what is on the shortside of the green. If it's bunkers or nasty hazards, I'd start a 9 iron at the pin and let the wind bring it back to the middle. If there is nothing to worry about on the short side, I'd attack the flag with an 8 iron. My club selection is based on the greens being receptive.

Flowergirl

11th June 2007, 10:10 AM

I'm going to hit a 7 iron - which is probably one more than I need - but it will make me swing slow and steady . I tend to pull if I swing too fast and think I've got to hit this further. I'll just try to hit it to left of the green - bit of a natural fader and with the wind - hopefully it will go to the right . I'll stand over the ball and just say "trust your self - you know it's the right club and you know the right swing to make".
I'll not even think about the water - and I know it wan't go over the back into the snakes that are "more scared of me than I am of them" ( especially if I'm angry and have a 7 iron in my hand!!!!)
Then I'll make the putt.:smt038

addamsmith

11th June 2007, 10:12 AM

Okay here are the results of the first Senario test here on Ozgolf.
From a teacher to a student giving a Course managment. This is what I beleive is the best thing you should do.

For the guy's that said they would Go attaching the Flag.

NO
Why
In a situation like this, by trying to attack the flag is a low percentage shot, why because of all the Hazzards around. the Flag is to close to the back and side of the green. you could hit 10 balls and maybe get close 3 time.Also because of the wind being fairly strong it make it much harder. If there was no wind the Percentage would be a bit better of course.

For the Guy's that want to draw the ball into the flag

NO
Why
What does a draw do? creates top spin.
So there is a good chance the ball would hit the green and run through. A fade has change to stop quicker.
Most pro's will fade the short irons into the greens.
Also because the wind is left to right, if you said to draw the ball into the green.The wind may stop and cause you to overhit the back or overdraw the green to the left side and into the MAGOOMBAH
So again a low percentage shot.

If you Said punch it to the center of the green.
better
But again a punch shot is a lower percentage shot, than a full smooth swing. So the idea of a punch if the wind was into you face, to the center of the green would be a great shot to play, but the wind is coming across not into so there is no need for a punch shot.
95% of punch shots are to keep the ball under the wind when the wind is into your face.

All in all the best shot here would be what?
hit a full swing with whatever club hits 110 metres.
aim to the center of the green and go for the par.

This shot is by far the best way to get the best result. If you pull th ball or push,slice or hook it. hit it off the toe or heel it should still clear the water and get to the front of the green at worst.

Always remember the, the best shot to play when there is a hazard or lots of harards around, is always play for the center of the green and take a club that you can do a full smooth swing with.

If you where 2 down with 2 to play in match play, then yes Hit the little shit of a ball right at the hole only if the other player has hit his shot first and is in the center of the green. Because you have nothing to loose. But if you where to play first play to the center because I can tell you now. If he was 2 up he would be not attacking the flag.

This is how I would teach any of my students to play this hole.
I hope it has helped in some way.
Would you like another senario?
Addam

Moe Norman

11th June 2007, 11:54 AM

Completely disagree - a punch shot for me is a higher % shot that a full swing, I get far more control and better spin.

With the wind coming from the left, aiming at the flag with 6m (which is a truckload) of room to the left of the flag, means that the wind can only bring the ball to the middle of the green at worst.

If I aimed a smooth swing at the centre of the green, I could easily lose it way right with that wind, as I hit the ball VERY high. A punch for me is the high % shot, and going straight at theh flag takes the trouble out of play, as the wind can only push it one way, and thats right into the heart of the green.

Trouble is, its unlikely I'd be in the middle fo the fairway ;)

Everyone is different though !

AndyP

11th June 2007, 11:59 AM

I can't see how a 'one size fits all' approach can be used.

Surely it's better for the golfer to go with their more confident and comfortable option, like Moe's example.

Webster

11th June 2007, 12:39 PM

Adam, agree with most of what you are saying (it agree's with most of what I am saying) except for the choice of club to go 110 m. The green is 36 metres long and its 100 to the front, so I would argue that the choice of club should be one which will carry at least 120 metres, thereby taking the front water out of play allowing for a complete mishit (with a cross wind).

A shot that caries 120 metres still has 16 metres margin to the back of the green. A shot that carries 110 metres still leave 22 metres to the hole - 3 putt range - take the extra club.

addamsmith

11th June 2007, 09:18 PM

In no way does one shot work for everybody. With a senario situation stat's are the best way to check the best result. I know people have a favourite shot and play it alot. What I am saying is if you hit 100 balls with a pitch wedge with a full swing and you hit 100 balls with a punch shot. the ball with the full swing will go higher and land softer and stop quicker. The ball from the punch shot will come in hotter, lower and have a better chance of releasing thru the green.

Today I went to the practice range and hit 50 balls with a full swing with the PW and the balls all landed on the green but one that was fat.
I then hit 50 balls with a punch shot and only 34 stayed on the green.
Also the full shots were much closer to the hitting area where the punch shot was much more over the green with a few pulls and pushes.

Moe I do beleive if someone practices one type of shot a lot it becomes there shot and I do beleive that is what you have been able to perfect in your game and I praise you for that.

My NO response is one to help people to improve consistancy in ones game.

I am not saying you are wrong and I am right , what i am saying is if you take 100 people and ask them to hit a punch shot only maybe 5 % could do it properly. the other 95% would not be able to stop it on the green.

Next chance you all get try the 50 ball punch/full swing and have a look at the results and let me know what happened.

Also one of my good friend's who plays off 3 hits a punch shot all the time and loves it.

I have spend $1000's of dollars with top coaches and all of the things I give to you guy's you can take it in for free and maybe it will help, I am happy to help were I can. That senario was one of many that I did on course management. And any one of you know golf is 95% mental.
Thanks Addam

Moe Norman

11th June 2007, 10:35 PM

i'm just wondering why you want it to go so high with a 20km/h wind?

and why you want it to stop quickly when you are flying it 110m to a pin 136m away?

addamsmith

11th June 2007, 11:05 PM

Hi Moe
The reason I beleive you want to get the ball in the air with a 20km wind is because of percentages and it is aimed at a majority 95%. If you hit to the middle of the green even with the wind and go for a 110m shot most guys and girls don't get back spin and most people i teach when hitting a 9 iron 110m the ball releases at least 5 more meters so that puts you in the middle of the green. 136 to the back and 130 to the flag.
You or I might be able to spin the ball back but most canot do that.
Also with that 20km cross wind, It want affect a good strike as far as distance it would move the ball about 10 mtr at the worst.

If you Said punch it to the center of the green.
better
But again a punch shot is a lower percentage shot, than a full smooth swing. So the idea of a punch if the wind was into you face, to the center of the green would be a great shot to play, but the wind is coming across not into so there is no need for a punch shot.
95% of punch shots are to keep the ball under the wind when the wind is into your face.

Just remember I did not say no to a punch shot, I said it is the shot to play into the wind because with a 20km head wind that would be at least a 2 club wind. Most players dont check the wind they just look at the distance , grab a club and swing. So in that senario the Punch would be a better shot.

Addam

Moe Norman

12th June 2007, 12:24 AM

a punch at the flag with a 20km crosswind is effectively at the middle of the green.

A full shot at the heart of the green in a 20km cross wind is effectivley aiming to miss the green right.

addamsmith

12th June 2007, 08:47 AM

Moe
What you are not uderstanding here is a punch to the flag is a higher a high percentage shot because of the type of shot it is. Unless you are tiger woods and can stiff it at the pin every time, there is no way that most people can stop the ball, even if you hit them straight the from to the back depertion rate would be much higher than a left to right from a full shot for the average person and please remember this senario is based on the average person.
The ball would not miss the green for a 110m shot with a 20km wind near as much as you think it would ( based on the wind factor), Also in the senario the idea there is looking for hazards which I added front and rear hazard. I did have No hazard to the right. So would that be the place to miss the green. This senario and even military senario's are base purely on statistics. Most players Can hit a full shot and not a punch shot.
If the avarage player hit a full shot and missed the green to the right won't that be a better statistic than short or long.
Thanks Addam

Moe Norman

12th June 2007, 10:45 AM

Yes, but if you want to land it in the middle of the green with a 20km wind with a high lofted club, you need to start it at the flag.

with 6m of room to the left of the flag, being 'shortsided' doesn't seem particularly worrying either.

I will agree that a punch isn't the preferred shot for everyone, but I still believe that a full shot should be aimed to at least the left portion of the green for the average player.

I agree that looking for the best place to miss is good strategy, but I don't subscribe to aiming to miss it there!

If you want to use statistics, statistically most golfers miss is a slice, in this wind that means serious trouble.

Boonie

12th June 2007, 11:47 AM

It completely depends on your level of skill. Course management can never be black and white, because people have different strengths and weknesses.

Addam is clearly giving his advice for about an 18 handicap (who doesn't 3-putt from 50ft;) ). A low marker will not be wanting a 50ft putt with a 9-iron in their hand - and rightly so.

Personally, I'm with Jack. I want to hit it 125 metres, which is a perfect 9-iron distance for me, and leave myself about 18-21ft away. I'll hit a full 9-iron that I make sure I release on fully so it holds into the wind a bit. Aim point will probably be slightly right of the pin, but not much.

Coffs_Hacker

12th June 2007, 02:20 PM

I'd like to hit the green --- anywhere ---- :)

12th June 2007, 02:43 PM

Since long is bad, I'd take the 9 iron, playing it to fly a little lower, and potentially release some on landing. Plenty of green short of the pin, so even if it grabs on the green, a birdie putt from the centre of the green wouldn't be the end of the world. For line, I would play it pretty much on line with the flag (or a few feet left), allowing any wind effect to push it towards the middle of the green.

Then I'd wake up to find I had been daydreaming, and had just made a triple from the middle of the fairway.... :(

Bruce

12th June 2007, 05:00 PM

I have essentially zero ability to pick distances so if they don't have marked sprinklers I am probably screwed anyway. Assuming they do they will be telling me I am 120m to the middle of the green. The water at the front will have me playing an 8I (going long is a rare miss). I will aim to get the ball to the middle or fattest part of the green I can see and so my best guess on the wind strength will be how far to the side I aim.

I'm only making about 1/3 GIRs on my best days - so I will aim to give myself the best chance of making one.

Ducky

12th June 2007, 07:09 PM

That's a tough one, but I would have to lay up short of the water for a pitch and a putt.

;)

Just kidding, I can't pitch or putt.

BrisWesty

25th July 2007, 07:56 PM

As you approach the ball what is the first thing you think of and do.
What club are you going to play
What shot are you goingto play.
And why.

Getting laid. ;-) Well you did want an honest answer didn't you? But we're meant to be talking about golf here.

What do I do? Well I hit PW about 100, 9I about 115, 8I up to 130, and 7I about 140. I don't get much backspin, so I'd probably hit a full 8I or easy 7I (most likely the 7) to get pin high or so at the flag and let the ball drift in flight towards the centre of the green for a simple 2 putt par.

Couldn't be fagged attacking the hole, with that much trouble close by.

Grunt

30th July 2007, 06:08 PM

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this question.
Why am I having so much trouble from 100m & in? Hitting my irons & woods so well, but get inside 100 and then blow it with either a shot of too hard or too soft. Not a bad shot just missed judged ones. It really getting to me. Has got to a stage of laying up outside 100m on purpose.

Moe Norman

30th July 2007, 06:10 PM

practice it so you know your yardages for each 10m gap under 100m

Grunt

30th July 2007, 06:13 PM

Yeah thought that was it Moe. Hard to get practice at range for this type of shot as the markers are not real accurate at many of them.

Moe Norman

30th July 2007, 06:35 PM

easier said than done of course.

I am woeful from the 40-60m range. Not too bad from 100m, its a half swing with PW and 80-90m are a full 54* less than 80m and I'm guessing.

Arnie K

19th February 2008, 04:14 PM

Hell with my handicap I'd probably get two shots so...... Play it short of the water with a sand wedge and then chip over close to the hole to one putt...If I had a decent putter. You don't have to win by much to secure the drinks!

Dennis

19th February 2008, 04:25 PM

For the Guy's that want to draw the ball into the flag

NO
Why
What does a draw do? creates top spin.

Adam,

Being a physics professor, I have to disagree.

A draw DOES NOT create top spin.

A draw shot means the loft on the club is less than if hit square. It create right to left spin, but still predominantly back spin. The resulting less loft creates a lower ball flight, and therefore, les chance of the ball stopping.

If a ball was hit with topspin, it wouldn't even fly 50m without nose diving to the ground. Think of a tennis ball hit with topspin. It dives down.

The backspin on a draw shot is what keeps it in flight.

Jono

20th February 2008, 07:58 PM

Adam,

Being a physics professor, I have to disagree.

Ahh ... a physics professor with interest in Asian politics ... ;)

I read in "Search for the Perfect Swing" (Cochran and Stobbs) that amount of backspin has little to do with grooves (ie. friction of the club face) from a clean lie, for a full shot. I think they used an experimental grooveless club for this experiment. They were a bit baffled by this result. According to the force vectors (normal force and tangential/friction force), backspin had to be caused by friction.

So what causes backspin if it isn't friction?

Shaneo

20th February 2008, 08:46 PM

Hi Guy's and Gals
I have to ask this Question,
Let's have some fun here.

Senario
Okay you are on a great Par 4 350m
You have bombed it right in the Middle of the fairway.
The flag is tucked up in the back left side of the green, 6 mtrs from the left side,4 mtrs from the back edge.
There is water in front on the green.
So complete water carry is needed to get the ball on the green,
Wind is blowing from the left to the right about 20kmh so it is quiet windy.
100 mtrs to the front of the Green. and the green is 36 mtrs from the front to the back of the green. so to fly the green it is 136 mtrs.
Behind the green is a big Paddock full of brown snakes with thick grass, so if your long your ball is as good as lost.

As you approach the ball what is the first thing you think of and do.
What club are you going to play
What shot are you goingto play.
And why.

I'd be hitting a PW
reason being is that i know i'll comfortably get over the water and i know it will be short of the back.
another reason is for control, i know that if i hit the ball at the left edge of green with that wind, 9 times out of 10 (but hopefully 10) i'll hit it, then its a couple of putts at worst.
also think, if you're trying to shape a shot into that strong wind, you could over do it or totally miss the shot i.e - set up for a draw and block it.
i've been told wise words in the past you only swing at 75% when wind is a factor. if you need to take an extra club then take it.

Iain

20th February 2008, 09:10 PM

So what causes backspin if it isn't friction?

Loft....

Moe Norman

20th February 2008, 10:12 PM

friction and compression.

Peter

21st February 2008, 05:21 PM

So what causes backspin if it isn't friction?
Shiny new clubs. After 3 or 4 rounds you need to replace them if you want to get backspin.

Toolish

21st February 2008, 05:51 PM

Ahh ... a physics professor with interest in Asian politics ... ;)

I read in "Search for the Perfect Swing" (Cochran and Stobbs) that amount of backspin has little to do with grooves (ie. friction of the club face) from a clean lie, for a full shot. I think they used an experimental grooveless club for this experiment. They were a bit baffled by this result. According to the force vectors (normal force and tangential/friction force), backspin had to be caused by friction.

So what causes backspin if it isn't friction?

Yuo don't need grooves for friction. Think of a car racing tyre, no grooves there and relies on friction for the car to handle. Two surfaces in contact will have friction, infact off a 100% clean lie a club with no grooves may spin the ball more as it has more surface area.

There has been some research lately to suggest the edges of the grooves may hel with spin, hence the Wishon Micro which has more smaller grooves.

But, indeed the draw = topsin myth is just plain wrong.

Jono

22nd February 2008, 11:13 PM

Yuo don't need grooves for friction. Think of a car racing tyre, no grooves there and relies on friction for the car to handle. Two surfaces in contact will have friction, infact off a 100% clean lie a club with no grooves may spin the ball more as it has more surface area.

There has been some research lately to suggest the edges of the grooves may hel with spin, hence the Wishon Micro which has more smaller grooves.

But, indeed the draw = topsin myth is just plain wrong.

For the same sort of surface, grooved face has more friction than grooveless. No?

Toolish

23rd February 2008, 07:59 AM

If it was a 100% clean lie (tight fairway or hardpan) then I would think a grooveless but heavily milled face would get the most spin. I don't have anything to back that up, just my opinion. A face with a lot of really thin grooves tightly spaces may work even better, but not sure on the legalities of grooves though.

But as soon as there is any grass there you need bigger grooves to give it somewhere to go, again like grooves in car tyres and water.

markTHEblake

23rd February 2008, 10:41 AM

Thats being proven in Tests - grooves only help when water and/or grass is in between the clubface.

So why does a snazzy new lob wedge spin more. Placebo effect, or is it with such a lofted club its almost impossible to hit the ball cleanly?

Fishman Dan

27th February 2008, 08:20 PM

Pick first club that comes into your head, then pull the next longer club and put a controlled swing on it.

- Stuart Appleby.

Jarro

27th February 2008, 08:23 PM

Pick first club that comes into your head, then pull the next longer club and put a controlled swing on it.

- Stuart Appleby.

Pretty handy advice that 8-)

Fishman Dan

27th February 2008, 08:31 PM

I taught him everything I know ;)

brad

28th February 2008, 02:24 PM

First thought would be self congratulations on a tee shot in the middle of the fairway. Second though would be "How did I do that?". Third would be 9 iron since it goes 130-135 metres. Then I'd smack it in the general direction of the green.

Probably top it or hit it in the water, but that would be OK since I hit such a great shot off the tee :)

virge666

3rd March 2008, 10:14 AM

For the same sort of surface, grooved face has more friction than grooveless. No?

You have to remember that the ball is quite soft. and when compressed will squish into the grooves of the club, you can see the marks on the ball after the shot - especially with new clubs or PING's.

The squish provides more grip on the ball and hence more spin.

But the main role of grooves is to disperse the crap that gets between the ball and club, like water and grass.

Much like Toolish's idea of tyres . . . slicks have good grip - in the dry only.

The debate on groove types / sizes / shapes will be one for a long time...

3oneday

3rd March 2008, 10:15 AM

Is nothing sacred ????

Scottt

17th March 2008, 11:13 AM

I'd punch an eight iron off my back foot to promote a draw ballflight to hold the wind. I'd start it in the right centre of the green and be aiming to land it centre of the green and let it release up a touch.

Topper4000

12th May 2008, 11:47 AM

Adam,

Being a physics professor, I have to disagree.

A draw DOES NOT create top spin.

A draw shot means the loft on the club is less than if hit square. It create right to left spin, but still predominantly back spin. The resulting less loft creates a lower ball flight, and therefore, les chance of the ball stopping.

If a ball was hit with topspin, it wouldn't even fly 50m without nose diving to the ground. Think of a tennis ball hit with topspin. It dives down.

The backspin on a draw shot is what keeps it in flight.

Better check up on your physic professor,

It will create a tilted axis, A golf ball will not spin in two axis.