PDA

View Full Version : "Abominable" Augusta



Courty
25th March 2007, 07:10 AM
Augusta National has become an abomination. Here's to hoping Billy Payne can begin to right Hootie's wrongs. I'm fairly certain this is not what Bobby Jones and Alistair MacKenzie had in mind.

http://thesandtrap.com/imgs/courses/augusta_15_16_17.jpg

http://blogs.golfdigest.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/03/14/augusta10_11.jpg

It's looking mightly cramped in there...

Moe Norman
25th March 2007, 07:13 AM
this website is confusing

PeteyD
25th March 2007, 07:14 AM
It would be nice to see what the changes actually were.

Moe Norman
25th March 2007, 11:35 AM
mainly tree plantings PeteyD.

The lengthening of the course doesn't really bother me, its the way they have made it so tight off the tee, which has totally flys in the face of Dr. Mac's design principles.

Its a terrible shame that Augusta has become nothing more than target golf from the tee, when much like RM its greatness was probably originally in the width and options from the tee and the amazing greens.

what confuses me is that there is a thread about it on this forum, where architecture discussion was stamped out long ago!

PeteyD
25th March 2007, 11:38 AM
Aren;t most of the courses in the US target golf these days? Will we get banned for discussions of this nature??

Certainly do not look like there are a lot of options off the tees in the pictures there.

goughy
25th March 2007, 11:38 AM
I wouldn't say stamped out; maybe moreso guided in a different direction (by the careful planting of a boot :)

markTHEblake
25th March 2007, 12:09 PM
I am struggling to beleive those are real photo's - looks animated to me?

Google earth shows a completely different look for the 11th, but i am guessing Google is out of dae, because i know the 11th has a massive lump of trees on the right to force the tee shot left and deny the run off the hill.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7640/googleearthimageiz6.jpg

Jarro
25th March 2007, 12:59 PM
Still looks pretty special to me 8)

Moe Norman
25th March 2007, 01:52 PM
the place is and always will be a monument, but its also becoming a joke.

The 11th as pictured has been stretched to a 505 yard Par 4 and narrowed by some 30 yards :shock:

The funny thing about it is that Hootie says "our objective is to maintain the integrity and shot values of the golf course as envisioned by Bobby Jones and Alister Mackenzie" he should add to that "as interpreted by Hootie Johnson after a few too many beers in the clubhouse" :evil:

markTHEblake
25th March 2007, 02:15 PM
I dont agree with the debauching of golf courses, but 505yard Par 4 is nothing for todays pro golfer. a standard 300yard drive leaves him with no more than a 5 iron - if that, which I imagine was how the hole was intended to be played originally in the Masters

I heard that the Masters tees are never ever used by the members, and in fact the Augusta course is quite short, the 11th hole is only a drive and a pitch and its less than 6000 metres.

Andrew
25th March 2007, 02:47 PM
Thanks for this thread, Courty.

The demise really began all the way back with Clifford Roberts, when he instigated changing the original 16th that MacKenzie designed inspired from a hole at Stokes Poges, designed by none other than Harry Colt, of course.

Augusta was originally meant to be wide, with hardly any rough. It was all about infinite options. It was all about enticement & temptation, & making the golfer believe he could play the heroic shot, even when deep down he knew he couldn’t. MacKenzie had the ability to make the golfer go for something he normally wouldn’t & Jones understood that quality in MacKenzie. That’s why he hired him.

These days, the course bares no similarity to the course MacKenzie designed. I’m sure the only reason they keep the superfluous short bunker on the 10th, which guarded the original 10th green, is so they can still call it a MacKenzie course.

The issue is not about the added length, but the claim that they have held on to Jones’ & MacKenzie’s traditions & ideals, when the truth is that ever hole has changed significantly enough not to be associated to MacKenzie at all.

This is the original MacKenzie 16th, which was changed very early on.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/Zarm/Others/th_AN-Original16th.jpg (http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/Zarm/Others/AN-Original16th.jpg)

This is an aerial from 1971. You can see there was still a great deal of open areas.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/Zarm/Others/th_AN-1971.jpg (http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/Zarm/Others/AN-1971.jpg)

Moe Norman
25th March 2007, 03:34 PM
as i said MTB - the lengthening isn't the problem - its the tightening that is is disappointing.

Sure, the 245 yard Par 3 isn't ideal, but as long as it plays the same from the members tees, its no big deal.

markTHEblake
25th March 2007, 04:10 PM
This is an aerial from 1971. You can see there was still a great deal of open areas.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/Zarm/Others/th_AN-1971.jpg (http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/Zarm/Others/AN-1971.jpg)

wow, look at all that open space around the 15th and 17th fairway, looks, like the MCG

Andrew
25th March 2007, 07:11 PM
wow, look at all that open space around the 15th and 17th fairway, looks, like the MCG

Interestingly, the same site has a few closer aerials from 1946 and the tree coverage looks fairly similar.

I have a few photos (not on computer) taken during the last stages of construction and there is barely a tree on the entire site.

dc68
26th March 2007, 01:26 PM
AAAAAAAAARGH arkitekcha



;)

Jarro
26th March 2007, 01:32 PM
AAAAAAAAARGH arkitekcha



;)

have a durry mate, she'll be right ;)

boomerang
6th March 2008, 12:57 PM
I play there on a regular basis and can assure you that if the ball goes over any of the greens you will not break 100 even if you are a single digit player. It has the best designed greens in the world.

Toolish
6th March 2008, 01:28 PM
Augusta...so you are from the deep south. Cool.

SupaSubi
6th March 2008, 01:43 PM
wow - he gets to play augusta regularly but can't handle talking about poor engrish.

poor soul.

3oneday
6th March 2008, 01:44 PM
poor soul.he's not R's brother then ?

;)

dc68
6th March 2008, 01:44 PM
I play there on a regular basis and can assure you that if the ball goes over any of the greens you will not break 100 even if you are a single digit player. It has the best designed greens in the world.


See you there next month?.........................[-o<

poidda
6th March 2008, 01:52 PM
See you there next month?.........................[-o<

See You Next Tuesday!

dc68
6th March 2008, 02:49 PM
No you won't. I will C U Next Tuesday and raise you a coat!!!!