OZgolf 2007 Most Improved Golfer - Jack

[PeteyD]

bugger off hamburglar

[Choppa]

I mean, Jack definitely should not win it, I think PeteyD is a dead cert :)

[markTHEblake]

The black and white mechanism for declaring the winner has always been the same, which is that the % improvement actually means little. It is simply a guide to narrow the field down.

IMHO any on that list could win depending on their own backstory, and it needs to be a good one. A specific example would be if some wanker used to play off 7 hcap, gave up golf for 3 years, and has this year improved from 17 hcap to 10. Could you honestly say the guy has improved. Therefore % means jack shit.

Therefore if this is to be no different as you said, then in reality Jack has no chance at all.

[Choppa]

Fair point and I agree, but then it's open to interpretation which is what I dislike.
If we think that people returning to the game start the year with a handicap too high then lets assign a "discount rate". That way we all know who is actually leading through the year based on the best figures for first place.

[AndyP]

This is not a popularity contest, Jack has to take it out. All the other awards have black and white mechanisms for declaring the winner, this one should be no different.

IMHO.
I heard you last year.

The % isn't even a good formula for working it out.

[poidda]

Fair point and I agree, but then it's open to interpretation which is what I dislike.
If we think that people returning to the game start the year with a handicap too high then lets assign a "discount rate". That way we all know who is actually leading through the year based on the best figures for first place.

It's simple. If your current handicap is not the lowest it's ever been, than you're not eligible to win. Returning to previous form is not improving.

[Webster]

Rubbish. The rules are simple. The person who has improved the most wins. The measure of improvement is handicap and nothing else. Stop trying to change the basis of determining the winner just so I can't win.

Jack.

[Eag's]

FFS just give it to Jack and stop all the stuffing around :roll:

[Andrew]

This is not a popularity contest, Jack has to take it out.

What do you mean? I thought Jack was the most popular guy on this site!

In all seriousness, with no disrespect to the other guys who have lost many shots, Jack's achievement is hard to beat.

[3oneday]

Does he get a cheque ? In the scheme of things, who ****en cares !!! :lol:

[Choppa]

I heard you last year.

And you'll hear it again next year too, and the year after that until I finally get my way :)

[BrisVegas]

Does he get a cheque ? In the scheme of things, who ****en cares !!! :lol:

bingo!

[markTHEblake]

Rubbish. The rules are simple.

Thanks for agreeing. :smt023

The rule has always been that;

- the greatest % improvement does not determine the winner.

- the improvement can only be counted from when the person joined in, for you thats about October 2007

- and what Poidda said

If your lucky - you might get an encouragement award alongside Golfer69 :lol:


Stop trying to change the basis of determining the winner .....

Feel free to propose a change of the Rules for next year, we just cant change the rules during the season just to suit one person - glad you agree.

[Webster]

Wrong again Blake. The time period is between Nov 2006 and Nov 2007. I am the winner.

[poidda]

Wrong again Blake. The time period is between Nov 2006 and Nov 2007. I am the winner.

FFS, Can Someone send Jack a "Well Done Certificate" so he can show his family at Christmas! :roll:

[terryand]

Wrong again Blake. The time period is between Nov 2006 and Nov 2007. I am the winner.

Then why did you only put your details forward in October this year :-s

"L"

[Webster]

cos thats when I first noticed the thread.

[Andrew]

I can't believe how much you guys care about this, to the point that you all seem to be taking Jack's bait.

Excellent stuff!

[3oneday]

The credibility of Ozgolf is on the line here.


I can't believe how much you guys care about this, to the point that you all seem to be taking Jack's bait.I think a most improved person award would be more fitting.

Award it to Grant, his attitude has improved remarkably :)
Award it to Peter_rs, his spelling and grammar have... nevermind
Award it to Fishman_Dan, he got rid of MacLeod, for better or for worse.
Award it to Jack, he left his porn elsewhere to a large extent.
Award it to Golfer_69, he's a wanker.
Award it to DC68, see above ;)

:lol:

[peter_rs]

Award it to 3oneday, see above ;)


Its a hard one for me.... but I'm happy to pass the curse on.

Rusty you have improved but its more course management then ball striking. your short was always ok. Rusty is a real grinder.

Kpac, over this year I have seen his ball striking improve leaps and bounds. And he has been working with a coach to improve.

I don't know the others that well, but good work to all who improved.

I back peteyd for next year ;) I also think the most improved has a little to do with oz golf spirit and should go to someone who make every effect to make the champs.

For me its between Kpac and Rusty, Rusty is solid but Kpac gets my vote.

[Webster]

Peter,

I have been an ozgolf member for manyyears, and regularly contribute to all different kinds of threads here. I have played with ozgolfers from all over the country, both here and in Qld. I made every effort to get to the Champs this year but I cannot make it due to work and personal reasons - I am really disappointed. I will be there in spirit, make no mistake about that.

You can quote things like ball striking and course managment, but at the end of the day the definitive measure is how much you improved your handicap during the year. It is the only way that you can fairly compare the achievements of one Ozgolfer with another. On that basis there can only be one winner, and it has to be me.

Jack.

[AndyP]

........the definitive measure is how much you improved your handicap during the year. It is the only way that you can fairly compare the achievements of one Ozgolfer with another.
Rusty - 8.5 shots
Jack - 2.3 shots.

[Webster]

In percentage terms AndyP - as per the table that appears numerous times during the thread.

[3oneday]

Award it to 3oneday, see above ;)thanks, I accept :):)

[peter_rs]

Jack where is the % in a handicap ;)

For every other sport I have played things like MIP/MVP titles go on more then just results.... losing teams still have them :)

[Fishman Dan]

I think a most improved person award would be more fitting.

Award it to Grant, his attitude has improved remarkably :)
Award it to Peter_rs, his spelling and grammar have... nevermind
Award it to Fishman_Dan, he got rid of MacLeod, for better or for worse.
Award it to Jack, he left his porn elsewhere to a large extent.
Award it to Golfer_69, he's a wanker.
Award it to DC68, see above ;)

:lol:

I did?!

[dc68]

I am?

[Fishman Dan]

Does he get a cheque ? In the scheme of things, who ****en cares !!! :lol:

The winner gets a signature piccy!!

I think there are pre-reqs... lose handicap, play often, enjoy the company of others, be somewhere north of Tweed Heads, be prepared to spoon AP....

Why isn't Flowergirl in the running? Hasn't she lost heaps of shots (on much harder tracks)?

[Fishman Dan]

......besides, Jack also had a horse that had 8-straight wins from nowhere. If that isn't Most Improved - I GIVE UP!

PS - A non-comp blemish shouldn't have me out of the running ;)

[Webster]

The desire of your QLD'ers to deny a Victorian this important award is a disgrace. It's just a conspiracy because you cannot handle the truth.

[AndyP]

I think there are pre-reqs...................be somewhere north of Tweed Heads......
amanda only got the MIP because she travelled up that year just before the Champs. You're onto us.


Why isn't Flowergirl in the running? Hasn't she lost heaps of shots (on much harder tracks)?16.3 to 16.3 just didn't cut it this year.

[3oneday]

I am?

wrong thread ;)

[AndyP]

Give it to me. I want that Boeing Golf Aid Thingy.

[Fishman Dan]

16.3 to 16.3 just didn't cut it this year.

There you go again, with the stats. Then we need a new prize - "Most Grateful Non-Improver (from South of Tweed Heads)"

[mikezone13]

Give it to eags, he improved from 114 at Newcastle to 86 at Nudgee in one week, now if a 28 shot improvement from one round to the next is not MIP, what is? ;)

[Eag's]

Ok this is really starting to get ****ing boring, can we sort it out already :roll:

[AndyP]

Ignore function?

There's still 2.5 days of dribble to go yet.

[Eag's]

Ignore function?

There's still 2.5 days of dribble to go yet.

Wanker!!

[AndyP]

Four names are being mentioned. One more than others, but that's because he keeps saying it. Lets look at some poll voting.

1. Rusty
2. kpac
3. PeteyD
4. Jack

chachi won't be able to vote in this one either.

[Webster]

My name should be at the top of the list mate - I had the greatest percentage reduction during the year.

[AndyP]

:lol:

[Choppa]

I think AndyP should get it if he improves his choice of socks at this years champs.

[3oneday]

I had the greatest percentage reduction during the year.is that a new penile thing ? :confused:

[Fishman Dan]

I vote for me first, Peter_rs 2nd.

[andylo]

This is how I read it...


I have been an ozgolf member for manyyears, and regularly shit stir and add oil to fire to all different kinds of threads here. I have secertly played with ozgolfers from all over the country, both here and in Qld. I teased your guys that I will come to the Champs this year but I cannot make it due to this champ is not really important than things around me. I will sh1t stir about it after, make no mistake about that.


Firstly I can't even see your golflink history in your signature. On top of that you suddenly just throw in your handicap result before this thing close just make it can't be more gay! I feel that all you want to do is to break people's heart and give it a good stir.

Bring up the QLDer/Victorian thing is just lame! I am sure you can do better than that.

BUT I think you are eligible to this award as long as your record is legit. After all its all about awarding the most improved OZGer. Although I personally perfers it goes to Rusty - who joined us with lots of PUBLIC OZG game and did truly contribute to the site.

[AndyP]

It's a close one, with the obvious exception.

[peter_rs]

I vote for me first, Peter_rs 2nd.

what?

[dc68]

Are there that many people eligible to vote?

[poidda]

Are there that many people eligible to vote?

This has got to be rigged! There's no way Jack would get 4 votes!

[dc68]

Indeed.

[Webster]

Andylo, thank you for that insightful synopsis of your view of the world. Your improved english makes it even easier to read.

Keep up the good work.

Jack.

[Fishman Dan]

This is how I read it...

Firstly I can't even see your golflink history in your signature....

Where's yours?

Muppet.

[Choppa]

love the avatar :mrgreen: :smt038

[markTHEblake]

This is how I read it...

We need a new Award - Post of the Century.

No need to wait the remaining 93 years, Andylo will shit this in.

[Webster]

what does he win?

[Iain]

what does he win?

A round of golf with you!!

[Webster]

lucky boy

[Jarro]

lucky boy

yes you are

[mikezone13]

cheers for leaving me off the poll AP :(

I abstain from voting... personally percentage improvement should be the go, all this "who's swing has improved", "from what I've seen..." etc is really crap, why does someone get votes just cos of others have seen them more?

Base it on stats and entry criteria (i.e. not coming back to handicap etc etc if must be) and there shouldn't be any arguments.

[PeteyD]

Mike, It is done using a formula other than purely handicaps (See the jono formula for details). the rest is just shit stirring.

[AndyP]

cheers for leaving me off the poll AP :(I did the poll based on nominations. You weren't nominated by someone in this thread.


I abstain from voting... personally percentage improvement should be the go, all this "who's swing has improved", "from what I've seen..." etc is really crap, why does someone get votes just cos of others have seen them more?I certainly wouldn't base it on swing. But you can definitely get an idea of improvement from their posts on their game progress.
Amanda and Courty (previous winners) certainly didn't have the benefit of many people seeing their swing.

[AndyP]

Mike, It is done using a formula other than purely handicaps (See the jono formula for details). the rest is just shit stirring.
Really? That's news to me.

[mikezone13]

I did the poll based on nominations. You weren't nominated by someone in this thread.

Actually I was.... so na na nee na na! (I'm sure someone said in this thread any of the "top 5" would be worthy) ;)



I certainly wouldn't base it on swing. But you can definitely get an idea of improvement from their posts on their game progress.


Wow, you read all of those? :D

Seriously though, either have "awards" that are based on stats/fact etc, or don't have them unless they're a total piss take i.e. Post of the Century, Wanker of the Year, the Jarro Award etc...

[mikezone13]

Mike, It is done using a formula other than purely handicaps (See the jono formula for details). the rest is just shit stirring.

Um, now it's formula based? Can someone make up their mind on this thing... I think credibility went out the window on the third or fourth post in this thread then....:lol:

[AndyP]

Did they have a stat to determine who was Australia's best one day player ever? Nope. Yet they awarded it.

[mikezone13]

Did they have a stat to determine who was Australia's best one day player ever? Nope. Yet they awarded it.

Exactly, another award with no credibility to it... your point? ;)

[AndyP]

I'm sure the people who decided and voted for it thinks it has credibility.

And isn't that what we are doing here?

[mikezone13]

I'm sure the people who decided and voted for it thinks it has credibility.

And isn't that what we are doing here?

:-k I'm sure they do, but does that mean the winner or others nominated think it does?

[AndyP]

You don't think Gilchrist would care?

You're arguing something that should have been argued 10 months ago. If we do it by statistic, how can we possibly determine what are the best statistics to use. The percentage method is ordinary, and is used only as a guide, as has always been stated.

I encourage you to come up with a formula (like Jono did) that you think is fair for all handicap levels to show who has improved the most.

[mikezone13]

Don't mind me mate... just stirring the pot, also pissed at my complete lack of form at the moment.

Agree the % method is probably not the best, but it's also simple and easy for everyone to understand.

On the Gilchrist matter, just saw the footage, didn't realise all the players voted, thought it was just a bunch of fat-arsed suits... previous statement retracted - but I won't edit it, need to leave my stupidity for all to see ;)

[Moe Norman]

I'm not voting for Jack, but I dispute the 'theory' that its easier for a low marker.

Sure its easier to get a high % reduction, but I would argue that getting your hacp from 5 to 3 is far harder than getting it from say 20 to 10 and I would contest that getting from 3 to scratch is harder than getting from 20 to 5 too.

[Fishman Dan]

I disagree with Moe.

No basis, just appears to be something I tend to do.

[goughy]

Sure its easier to get a high % reduction, but I would argue that getting your hacp from 5 to 3 is far harder than getting it from say 20 to 10 and I would contest that getting from 3 to scratch is harder than getting from 20 to 5 too.

I agree with this...

[AndyP]

Fishy, please vote. You have no idea how much your opinion means to us all.


I'm not voting for Jack, but I dispute the 'theory' that its easier for a low marker.

Sure its easier to get a high % reduction, but I would argue that getting your hacp from 5 to 3 is far harder than getting it from say 20 to 10 and I would contest that getting from 3 to scratch is harder than getting from 20 to 5 too.Even if the person has had a low handicap before?

[Fishman Dan]

I'm abstaining. I should be on the list.

Deep down inside, I know I'm still the POTY ;)

Again.

[Moe Norman]

Even if the person has had a low handicap before?so 5 and/or 3 as starting points aren't low?

The difference in ability between a scratch marker and a 5 marker is massive, despite being only 5 shots. The difference between a 15 marker and a 20 marker is minimal, even with the same hcp gap.

A 5 marker is closer to a 20 marker in ability, than he is to a scratch marker.

[BrisVegas]

it'd be interesting to hear someone's opinion who's actually gone from 5 to scratch. I agree with you in theory, but I've never done it. stoney has, so hopefully he chimes in.

[AndyP]

That's not what I'm saying.

If a player has been at say a 3 handicap in the past, becomes a 5 handicapper after some time, then "improves" back to 3 after several years, how much credit do you give them for improvement?

[Fishman Dan]

They would have improved over the past 12 months... which is really all this is about?

[markTHEblake]

If a player has been at say a 3 handicap in the past, becomes a 5 handicapper after some time, then "improves" back to 3 after several years, how much credit do you give them for improvement?

What improvement?

[BrisVegas]

how many years before the forum forgets a past handicap???

I've been getting steadily worse for 5 years now since my all-time low. How many more years until I'd be eligible?

[Choppa]

Lets just keep the rules as they are (yes I know) and call it the "Player's Player Award" :smt023

I like it already.

[Moe Norman]

how many years before the forum forgets a past handicap???

I've been getting steadily worse for 5 years now since my all-time low. How many more years until I'd be eligible?Exactly.

I've been average for ages. If I get out to 10 in the coming 12 months, then hit some form the following year and get back to 5. Have I not improved in the in that particular year?

[markTHEblake]

Wrong again Blake. The time period is between Nov 2006 and Nov 2007. I am the winner.

Do you want the winner to be determined by the rules or not? Make up your mind.

You are claiming that the rules cant be changed, thats highly ethical of you, coz you cant win according to the rules.

[Courty]

Lets just keep the rules as they are (yes I know) and call it the "Player's Player Award" :smt023

I'm liking this idea. Let's have a MIP award based purely on the percentage, and a Player's Player for whatever reasons people see fit. Oh, but one key point. Let's make the change AFTER these Champs. ;)

[AndyP]

No MIP will ever be based purely on the percentage.

[Ducky]

It appears that there are two sides: those who believe that the winner should be determined statistically and those who believe that the winner should be determined by a combination of character and statistics.

I can see it from both sides, but I believe it would be quite unfair if an award was not presented to the individual who has improved the most statistically (regardless if they are in favour with the OzGolf members or not).

If character was always going to be the main deciding factor, why not take a vote at the start of the year? That would have been a better solution than stringing along individuals who never really had a chance anyway.

I think that the two awards for '08 is a great idea.

[Webster]

I still think I should be the winner. I tick all the boxes. And I am a top bloke.

Jack.

[Choppa]

Nice sig :)

[BrisVegas]

how many years before the forum forgets a past handicap???

I've been getting steadily worse for 5 years now since my all-time low. How many more years until I'd be eligible?

come to think of it.. I joined iseekgolf/ozgolf 4-5 years ago and have been spending way too much time in the Pro Shop. :oops:

I need to find my old Tommy Armour 855's and Titleist 975D!

[markTHEblake]

I've been getting steadily worse for 5 years now since my all-time low. How many more years until I'd be eligible?

Never. You will always consider yourself a 3 handicap.

Unless you take up golf left handed or forfeit a limb or two:)

Most improved awards go to people that have improved, handicap fluctuations are not an improvement.

[Webster]

You are just shitty cos you can't win cos you stink...

[AndyP]

I think that the two awards for '08 is a great idea.
Or we could get rid of it altogether like the crappy Vardon.

I'd argue against your post but I've said it all before.

[Fishman Dan]

OzGolf Encouragement Award - Jack.

OzGolf Attendance award - Jarro.

[markTHEblake]

You are just shitty cos you can't win cos you stink...

I would never win this, I have no hope of improving - ever.

[AndyP]

Well done on getting the Most Improved title this year, Jack. Despite the boos when it was announced, there's obviously plenty of love on this forum for you and your achievements.

Bruce has been left with the task of delivering your prizes.

Good luck with the OZgolf MIP curse too. It hasn't failed yet.

[Bruce]

The curse from Peter_rs has been lifted and he was shooting pretty well from what I've seen this weekend. He may start heading downwards again now without the albatross of MIP around his neck.

2008 will be a year of 0.1 out for you now Jack - unless you can break the curse.

[Fishman Dan]

2 trophies this year at presentation night.

How did you other 'improvers' go?

[Jarro]

2 trophies this year at presentation night.

How did you other 'improvers' go?

Got a lot of hackers at your club Dan ?

[Fishman Dan]

Is that all you've got?

:lol:

[terryand]

Congratulation on your stellar year Dan.

Terry.

[Jarro]

I've got plenty more, but November is my "Be nice to the nerdy" month :mrgreen:

[mike]

2 trophies this year at presentation night.



Pics ?

[Fishman Dan]

Congratulation on your stellar year Dan.

Terry.

Bahaha. Home track hero you mean ;)

[AndyP]

Get the **** out of Jack's thread.

[Fishman Dan]

Sir..please pee into the jar. The stewards have asked for a sample after seeing your NSW effort.

I don't see it in my GolfLink?

I can't believe you gave it to Jack. Talk about the squeaky wheel!!

[Rusty]

2 trophies this year at presentation night.

How did you other 'improvers' go?

we're all just hackers compared to Jack. didn't have a chance. definitely in training for "best and fairest" next year.

[Bruce]

Any further movement downward Jack?

A mutual friend told me you had a pretty good round over the weekend.

Has the curse been lifted by heading south?

[Fishman Dan]

I had to re-read. I thought you were asking if there was movement downstairs..

[Webster]

2.4

[Jarro]

Any more swashbuckling batting performances ?

[peter_rs]

Any further movement downward Jack?

A mutual friend told me you had a pretty good round over the weekend.

Has the curse been lifted by heading south?


Bruce I drop another shot after I picked up MIP but by the end of the year I had gone out more.

congrats jack.

[Bruce]

I finally caught up with Jack this morning to present him with his prizes and the congratulatory handshake from the MC.

Alas the ceremony was rather brief (Jack was double-parked) so there was no chance for a photo.

Well done Jack.

[markTHEblake]

Did you pass on the sentiment that the crowd unanimously gave him at the presentations?

[Bruce]

I think I managed to convey the vibe nicely.

I thought it was a mix of incredularity mixed with grudging respect and I hope that was the impression I gave.

[markTHEblake]

Yes sounds like you got it spot on. Much like the Collingwood crowd would honour Terry Daniher running out through gate at Victoria Park in 1991.

[Webster]

Very happy with my prizes, thanks to everyone who donated them. A pity Scarfie scribbled on the hat though....

[Grunt]

Is there going to be a 2008 Most improved?Or has the idea gone stale?

[markTHEblake]

has anyone improved?

[Grunt]

Dont know as there has been no comments from anyone.

[sms316]

If you go from 1 to scratch, does that mean infinite improvement? Or just 100% improvement?

[Grunt]

Ahh good question, but what is the exact handicap? Easy to calculate improvement that way.

[PeteyD]

Nah it is only 1 shot improvement ;)

[sms316]

0.6 to -0.2

[PeteyD]

Not even 1 shot!! :D

[sms316]

Ah - but highest to lowest was 1.4 to -0.6. 2 shots!

:mrgreen:

[PeteyD]

nah that doesn't count. Means you blew out 1.2, gained 0.8, for a nett of -0.4 ;)

[sms316]

Now I'm lost! :roll:

I need a slide rule or an abacus.

[3oneday]

1 x 0 is still 0, so there has been no improvement ?


;)

[PeteyD]

Don't worry, no one knows how Andy P works out the MOst Improved, only that he does.

[sms316]

1 divided by zero = infinity.

[3oneday]

or zero

[markTHEblake]

Ah - but highest to lowest was 1.4 to -0.6. 2 shots!

:mrgreen:

when did you join the most improved comp? sounds like today.

whats the lowest handicap you have ever been on?

[Scottt]

Did we need to enter at some stage, or is it just open to all?

[goughy]

I thought it was open to all, but dated from what your hc was after last year champs up until it ends. Or was it calendar year? I don't know, not like I'm a contender.

[markTHEblake]

I thought it was open to all, but dated from what your hc was after last year champs up until it ends. .

or when you join the forum, or for some people, join in when things start looking good.

[Scottt]

I have dropped from 12.6 at worst to 9.1 at best.

[AndyP]

You could look at this years thread for starters, Grunt. :roll:
http://www.ozgolf.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8430

No spreadsheet. People took it too seriously.

[Andrew]

I have dropped from 12.6 at worst to 9.1 at best.
It only counts if you improve on courses that actually require you to use a driver. ;)

[Scottt]

That hurts Andrew.

You know why?

Because it's f**king true, isn't it?!

You prick :lol:

[3oneday]

What did Jack win, jack ? or a Nomaded wedge ?

[markTHEblake]

He won a hat signed by a celebrity fan of his.