Provisional ball in a water hazard??

[BrisVegas]

Being a rules numpty... Is there such a thing as a provisional ball for when you think you've hit it into a hazard?

Scenario: I hit my 2nd shot towards the the hazard on the 11th at Brooky (water short, right & rear of green) but it didn't splash. Just heard it slap into the mud. Had a quick look in the mud & reads at the front of the hazard along the line it entered and couldn't find it. I'd waited about 20 minutes to hit my 2nd shot at this stage as my cart buddy lost his ball and eventually headed back to the tee to play his 3rd and the other two guys were both looking for their balls way right in the trees. So, to try and keep things moving, I declared a "provisional" and hit my 4th at the point it crossed the hazard line. Then walked around to check the far side of the hazard. Sure enough I found my ball plugged in the mud just inside the hazard line. Not knowing whether I was really allowed to play it, I asked the other guys who had no idea either.. Eventually, we figured I'd play out both balls and check on the rules later.

I played the plugged ball from the hazard and got it onto the green, 2 putted it and made 5 - 1. The other ball was 2 putted for a 6 - 1.

Wrote down the 6 - 1 figuring I probably wasn't entitled to play the one I found in the hazard after already putting another ball in play.

After the round (5 hours) I was in a hurry and forgot to check on the ruling, so just left the 6-0 on the card.

Could I have claimed the 5-1?? Just curious...

I always thought that you could play a provisional ball to speed up play while you looked for your original ball, but don't know what impact the hazard has on things...

[Courty]

Tough one, Dion. AndyP seems to be a rules nazi. I'll leave this one to him. ;)

[AndyP]

No can do, regardless of the hazard. Can't hit a provisional as you had already looked for your ball. As you didn't find it, it's declared lost, and your next shot is the ball in play.

The provisional would have to be hit from the point where you hit your second shot, before looking.

Want me to quote some rules? Thanks for the second rules discussion of the day.

[Courty]

Told you so. :mrgreen:

[Fishman Dan]

You could have at least quoted the rule number(s) and exceptions.

Some rules Nazi. Where's Blake when you need him?! I'm sure if it was Jarro asking if he should have been DQ'd or not he would have been all over it.

[AndyP]

If you had reasonable evidence (the slap sound) to believe that the ball went in the hazard, then you could have played your fourth after a hazard penalty drop. If you didn't, you would cop a penalty, as you should've played the back from where you played the second.. Wipe anyway.

[AndyP]

Fair go, Fish. I supplied an answer off the top of my head for expediency. Now to get some rule quotes.....

[BrisVegas]

No can do, regardless of the hazard. Can't hit a provisional as you had already looked for your ball. As you didn't find it, it's declared lost, and your next shot is the ball in play.

The provisional would have to be hit from the point where you hit your second shot, before looking.

I had only started looking for my ball. 1-2 mins tops. Under the circumstances, I wanted to try and get the group off the damn hole as we were holding up play. For me to have searched the the other side of the hazard first would have held up play further, so I thought I was doing the right thing by pre-empting the eventual water penalty by playing the provisional. I thought that the first ball was still able to be played as long as it was found within 5 minutes of searching (which it certainly was).

Same as if you think you've hit a ball OOB or lost off the tee and you play a provisional. You keep playing that provisional, but if you find the first one in play when you get to it, the provisional ball is no longer in play.

I could understand that I could be DQ'd in this case because I played the "provisional" from the wrong spot. Probably should have played it from back in the fairway... Again, after 20 minutes on the hole and looking for 3 playing partners balls, I'd had enough and just wanted to move on...

I'm still interested to see your rules quotes Andy.

[AndyP]

Being a rules numpty... Is there such a thing as a provisional ball for when you think you've hit it into a hazard?
Not exactly, but if you think there is a chance it is lost outside of the hazard, then you can, but you would have to hit the provisional from the point of the second, not at the hazard.


Rule 27 - Ball Lost or Out of Bounds; Provisional Ball
27-2 Provisional Ball

a. Procedure
If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.
If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost.


Scenario: I hit my 2nd shot towards the the hazard on the 11th at Brooky (water short, right & rear of green) but it didn't splash. Just heard it slap into the mud.

b. When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play
.
.
If there is reasonable evidence that the original ball is lost in a water hazard, the player must proceed in accordance with Rule 26-1.
I think you had reasonable evidence that it was in the hazard, with the mud sound.

Having not found the ball initially, you could assume it went into the hazard and take relief with rule 26-1. You couldn't declare it as a provisional, and I don't know if this violates a rule. But once you found the initial ball, it should've gone back in the bag, as you already had a ball in play (not a provisional).

At worst, I'd say it's a two shot penalty, which is a wipe anyway. Not a DQ.

[BrisVegas]

So, in essence, I should have spent longer looking for it. If I'd have scoured both sides of the hazard first, I'd have found my ball and there'd have been no issue. By rushing to speed up play, I cost myself a shot, at least. FWIW, I played a spectacular recovery out of the mud!

score hasn't gone into golflink anyway, so haven't even got my 0.1 back yet...

[AndyP]

That's right. But did you really speed up play, if you went to look for it afterwards anyway?

You'll never get to 9 at this rate.

[BrisVegas]

That's right. But did you really speed up play, if you went to look for it afterwards anyway?

You'll never get to 9 at this rate.

yes, as I saw it when i was walking to the green. it flew further & closer to the green than i thought.

I don't really want to get to 9 if I can avoid it. I feel like I should be able to shoot 80 or better on most courses. Have been on single figures since I was a teenager, the shame of blowing out may be too much to handle... :oops:

[poidda]

Stop living in the past Dion! :-D

[BrisVegas]

poidda - you tell me... how's a big hcap feel after so long as an "A" grader? don't you feel dirty?

[poidda]

I feel dirty that I cant play to B grade handicap if that's what you mean!