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Andrew
14th October 2006, 01:19 PM
Newcastle GC have done some lengthening & changed par for stroke events. They are only using this configuration on Medal Saturdays & ‘Black Marker’ Fridays (last Friday of the month).

1st 389m par 4
2nd 385m par 4
3rd 218m par 3
4th 414m par 4
5th 369m par 4
6th 384m par 4
7th 147m par 3
8th 327m par 4
9th 489m par 5

Out 3122m par 35

10th 484m par 5
11th 337m par 4
12th 173m par 3
13th 444m par 4
14th 404m par 4
15th 383m par 4
16th 212m par 3
17th 400m par 4
18th 386m par 4

In 3223m par 35

Total 6345m par 70

I really don’t see the point of changing the par to 70 for stroke events, especially considering the ACR is 74 & these rounds often have a CCR of 76. Normal events are played with the course measuring approx. 6200m at a par of 72.

In stroke events, par doesn’t really matter, so would it be better to NOT list par on individual holes & let the courses rating take care of the handicapping ?

Moe Norman
14th October 2006, 01:52 PM
deja vu

Ducky
14th October 2006, 01:55 PM
CCR of 76? That would be a great course to get the handicap down on. Our course rarely changes the CCR from 71.

Andrew
14th October 2006, 02:10 PM
deja vu

Some folk here don't look at ISG & I wanted a broad section of views.

AndyP
14th October 2006, 02:38 PM
So the course gets longer, but the par gets lower. Hmmmm

I don't know the original lengths and pars of individual holes, but I assume most holes where par hasn't changed, have been lengthened, and a couple have been shortened but the par reduced.

I can't understand the point of changing the par of the course just for different events.

goughy
14th October 2006, 02:41 PM
It's not like it's being used to play a pga tour event instead of a members comp day. No probs with lengthening and toughening it for special days, but I don't see the point in reducing it's par.

Moe Norman
14th October 2006, 02:46 PM
CCR of 76? That would be a great course to get the handicap down on. Our course rarely changes the CCR from 71. CCR shouldn't really be 'changed' - the scores on the day should determine it.

Andrew
14th October 2006, 03:22 PM
I don't know the original lengths and pars of individual holes, but I assume most holes where par hasn't changed, have been lengthened, and a couple have been shortened but the par reduced.


The course has two short par 5's, that play like par 4½’s. The 4th & the 13th have not actually been shortened, it’s just the par that has changed. The 4th is a very short par 5 at 414m, but rises to a green that sits on top of a dune 10m above the fairway. The green is guarded by some very deep bunkers & the green is not really set up to take the long clubs that 99% of the members would need to hit the green.

BTW, Jono hit the green in two & sunk the putt for a birdie, although I regard it as an eagle.

glen
14th October 2006, 04:36 PM
CCR of 76? That would be a great course to get the handicap down on. Our course rarely changes the CCR from 71.

Very tight course though,hit it wide on most holes and its reload,it earns its rating in my opinion.

Fishman Dan
18th October 2006, 01:23 PM
I'm in awe.

1 - that you play Newcastle, and regularly.
2 - you found the ascii character for "1/2"

I still think we get too hung up about 'Par'. After all, the score is determined by the number of strokes a player had that day. As you've already highlighted, it's not an issue for Stableford scoring.

The Par 4.5 you indicated - what index is it? I guess for most players it would effectively be a par 5 if it were one of the harder holes on the course.

miro
18th October 2006, 01:32 PM
I played the day with Andrew and Jono. We were a little surprised by the par of 70 -especially at 6,350 metres. I pesonally think par is important as a measure at least phychologically. The two holes in question, though appearing short on the scorecard, do play much harder than they appear. They are genuine 4.5's for better players.

The real question to me was -why bother with the change? Previously you could support the two par 4.5's with two huge par 3.5's -so it all worked out in the end. Now it just appears bloody long and tough. I suppose my view is that Par is more important on championchip levels course than CCR is. So for me its a bad decision.

PS Moe note how I kept it on topic this time.