Lost Cards

[Grunt]

Hi All

Another drama for me with Mac Grange, this time they took too long to enter scores for a round and now it is unable to enter it for me as they are not my home club, they say they spoke with Bathurst last week but it is not in my golflink. I had shot 39 points with the course rating 1 over it's ACR so by my calculations I should have lost 1.2 off my handicap. It would have had me lose 2 shots from 20.5 to 19.3.

Do I play off what Golflink says or what it should be?
Mac Grange told me I had to play off 19 yesterday. Funny thing was this was the same guy who would not enter scores for me that I had informed them of earlier this year, to keep me in the pennants team calculations.

I am playing again on Tuesday and am not sure what to play off 21 or 19?

[goughy]

I think you have to play off of what golflink says. Maybe contact bathurst, but what can you do. golflink is there for hc maintanence, and I don't think it is up to mac grange to tell you what to play off. It should be up to your home club which should also maintain your hc as well as golflink.

[Grunt]

I realise this Goughy but it was not Bathurst's fault the guy did not enter my score in golflink until Thursday.

[goughy]

I realise this, but then bathurst should then be contacting mac grange to confirm you score (at the least) or request the scorecard and then make an ad hoc adjustment.

While I understand you not wanting to play of an incorrect hc, golflink is their. If you play a comp, the club loses your card or dosen't return it and won't confirm anything about it, then what would you do. You have to live with it.

Of course, I would hate missing a hc reduction. Get onto bathurst about it.

[Grunt]

Yeah I have and by the sounds of it they had contacted Mac Grange but no Ad Hoc yet, I guess if it going to happen it will, if not so be it I can alway get another win out of it all. I just want to get that handicap down to a level that both myself and people I play with agree is right for me. At the moment I always get the "You should be off way less than that" comments and the like.

[goughy]

Funny thing, I get the opposite. You're off 11. Wow. You hit the ball like a 26 capper ;) :)

Good luck with it.

[Grunt]

Thanks, hopefully Tuesday's game will solve the dilema and I will get the reduction happening.

[Toolish]

Always play off what Golflink says

[Grunt]

Will do from now on. Was uncertain yesterday and all the whatif's got into my head on the 1st tee.

[Moe Norman]

wish clubs only lost my good cards

[markTHEblake]

Grant - you have to play off the adjusted handicap. I am too tired to be typing the whole clause tonuight but its Australian Handicapping System Rev. 01/07/2002 1.(d) "the visited club may use his scores to adjust his handicap temporarily" - if yuo have played 36 holes or more at the visited course.

from the gist of it, if you played at a different course every day for 7 days, you would play off the golf link every time.

The Mac Grange handicapper will have a copy of this if you want to have a look.

[jimandr]

Always play off the expected lowest mark. You cannot be disqualified for playing off a lesser number than the correct one.

Although, I wonder what happens if you play off the lower handicap in error and still break against the CCR. If Grant plays off 19, and shoots 4 under the CCR, will he still lose a shot if he's off 19.5, and therefore should play off 20? (I may have the maths wrong, but know what I mean)

As my club refuses to participate in Golflink, I often don't know what my exact handicap is (and I don't really care). I solve the problem by always playing badly, but there will be a good day eventually.

[Trung]

Do I play off what Golflink says or what it should be?
Mac Grange told me I had to play off 19 yesterday. Funny thing was this was the same guy who would not enter scores for me that I had informed them of earlier this year, to keep me in the pennants team calculations.



So they cheated to keep you in C Grade.... someone call security.. :twisted:

Grant... why are you still playing at Mac Grange? there are plenty of other courses not far from you... (and much nicer to play on).... :smt002

I have never heard so much complaining from a member and now ex.member of a golf course and still turn up at the same course to donate your hard earn cash to them... :???:

[Grunt]

I am a member until March Trung, Iam only playing there to get a relatively cheap Saturday Comp.

[Fishman Dan]

Grant - haven't you had all this drama before?

As Blake and Jim said, you play off what you believe to be your handicap. GolfLink is not the final word in your handicap.

But the bottom line is - it is also your responsibility to ensure your card makes it to your home club, not just the club(s) involved. If this means you make a photocopy of it after a round and send it to Bathurst yourself (as insurance), then that's what you have to do.

If Mac Grange have a card of yours that you believe they have not sent, ask them for it so you can send it.

[Flowergirl]

I play at different clubs often. If they don't enter the cards there and then - I ask for a copy or I take the card with me. Or I take down the details - score and CCR and contact my handicapper and advise her. I was always told it was up to you to to make sure you play off the correct handicap. You should be able to figure out if it has changed or not. As the others said - golflink is not the bible as far as handicaps is concerned. It is your responsibility.

[Andrew]

The issue that Grant faces is that he plays 30+ different courses, in comps, per year. It is difficult to chase up missing cards & many clubs only accept cards sent or faxed directly from another club.

I do similar, & often play in open comps with Grant. The course I was previously a member at was hopeless at keeping track of cards.
· When I questioned them, they blamed the other club.
· When friends played at my home course & their cards didn’t get back to their club, my club (yet again) blamed the other club.
· When I played at other courses in open comps with friends, their cards got back to their clubs, yet my card never got back to my club. (This happened many times).
· When I contacted the club I played at, they always said they sent it through, but were happy to send it through again. Not once did my home club admit to ever receiving any of those cards.
· When I took a copy of my card & submitted it to my club, (with all relevant information) they said they only accept cards that have been sent by the club or faxed through by the club.
· The only card they ever accepted directly from me (which was actually a card the other course had kept as a favour to me due to this problem) was a score of 42 points, and then only because it was a winning score. Two other score of 42 points were ignored during that year.

[dc68]

If that happened to me I would change clubs.

[AndyP]

Sounds like Emerald Lakes supposed handicap maintenance membership.

Sometimes you just get sick of chasing cards up all the time. Fortunately my home club is reliable with the processing, and it's only if the away club slacks off that my handicap doesn't get updated.

[Fishman Dan]

Andrew - Grant's dramas are usually (regularly?) limited to when he plays at Mac Grange. Having said that, anyone having any of the above difficulties should take note of Flowergirl's comments.

All of your points are avoidable if you ask for a copy of your finalised card before you leave the club. If they are unwilling to accomodate, then perhaps you shouldn't play there (I think that's been recommended to Grant once or twice re Mac Grange :roll:)

[Grunt]

Andrew - Grant's dramas are usually (regularly?) limited to when he plays at Mac Grange. Having said that, anyone having any of the above difficulties should take note of Flowergirl's comments.

All of your points are avoidable if you ask for a copy of your finalised card before you leave the club. If they are unwilling to accomodate, then perhaps you shouldn't play there (I think that's been recommended to Grant once or twice re Mac Grange :roll:)

It is not only Mac Grange, Dan.

Courses that regularly did not return cards were:

Kogarah
Carnarvon
Wallacia
The Coast
CabramattaThere were others but these clubs I just took it as a given that no cards would go back. I got the impression that some clubs fail to return them if it is not a handicap loss result. They must be cutting costs on postage/faxes.

But don't worry about it, I don't anymore. If they don't want to reduce my handicap I will just go around winniing more :) Have had a few vouchers in the past few weeks :)

[dc68]

Burglar

[Andrew]

All of your points are avoidable if you ask for a copy of your finalised card before you leave the club.

Not totally, as I did that with my previous club (Cabramatta G.C.) & they were not willing to accept any card that didn't come directly via the other club involved.

I'm now a member at Newcastle G.C. & they haven't skipped a beat.

[markTHEblake]

As Blake and Jim said, you play off what you believe to be your handicap.

I didnt say that exactly


GolfLink is not the final word in your handicap.

Yes it is. Exception, If he plays 2 or more rounds in a row at an away club that does not update golflink daily (or at all) are entitled to make a reduction to his handicap according to the handicapping system.


But the bottom line is - it is also your responsibility to ensure your card makes it to your home club,
No. It is the handicapper at the respective clubs responsibility to ensure Grunt plays off the right handicap.

[Trung]

It is not only Mac Grange, Dan.

Courses that regularly did not return cards were:

Kogarah
Carnarvon
Wallacia
The Coast
Cabramatta

Hey Grant,

I never had any problems with Carnarvon returning my cards before :mrgreen: :smt002 .

They must not like you :twisted: .

[Grunt]

Was only Macarthur Grange Cards, mate not sure but the first time I played there they told me Mac Grange was not a golf club. I should have listened:)

[Fishman Dan]

Blake - you can't have a 'final word' with an exception. You're a walking tortology.

I also don't agree with your last point - the handicapper at either club isn't aware of where a player has played the last 3 days, irrespective of GolfLink usage or not. Only 1 person knows that - the player, and therefore i thought he/she is expected to declare what you believe to be their current handicap before you round.

I'm not searching the rules of golf, but I'm sure it's in there somewhere.

I had this problem when i was a member at Fox Hills, who were similarly useless with handicapping, and not on GolfLink. So when i played Kyogle I rang them before teeing off. It wasn't that hard really.

[markTHEblake]

Blake - you can't have a 'final word' with an exception. You're a walking tortology.

Can i call it a semi final then? I dont wish to type out the entire handicap system, so i kept it simple. . interpret it any way you like, i typed out the relevant clause word for word a page or two ago that explains this exception in a little more detail.



I also don't agree with your last point

lucky you, because i was wrong. Upon checking the rules it does say the player is responsible for ensuring his scores are returned, but so is the club.


- the handicapper at either club isn't aware of where a player has played the last 3 days, irrespective of GolfLink usage or not. Only 1 person knows that - the player, and therefore i thought he/she is expected to declare what you believe to be their current handicap before you round.

The situation you describe is not referred to, or implied in the rules.


I'm not searching the rules of golf, but I'm sure it's in there somewhere.

lucky you didnt. you would be wasting your time. Handicapping systems are not in the Rules of golf. The only place the Australian Handicapping system is recorded (in full) is in the Australian Golfers Handbook. I have the latest edition here. (cost about $20 from the AGU)

Anyway lets face it, how often will a golfer fire his bum off at a foreign course that doesnt use golf link, lose shots, and then go to another course and fire his bum off again? Gotta be a million to one odds?

[Fishman Dan]

Can i call it a semi final then?

Let's call it an "Elimination Final" - the same point where the Pies choked. ;)


lucky you, because i was wrong. :shock: :shock: :shock:


Upon checking the rules it does say the player is responsible for ensuring his scores are returned, but so is the club.

My understanding was that it was always a 50/50, but in these instances if the club doesn't do the work, the player is ultimately responsible.


Anyway lets face it, how often will a golfer fire his bum off at a foreign course that doesnt use golf link, lose shots, and then go to another course and fire his bum off again? Gotta be a million to one odds?

We'll never know to what lengths some burglars will go ;)

[markTHEblake]

My understanding was that it was always a 50/50

Under the section detailing the visited clubs responsibility it states they may adjust a players handicap manually if he plays 36 holes or more in a short period of time.

Under the section detailing the players responsibility; There is no mention of the players requirement to manually adjust his own handicap (nor in any other section)

The old Ladies handicapping system (pre golf link) had a requirement that the ladies carry with them a manual handicap record and make their own adjustments when playing away courses. Men never had this requirement. (ladies system was vastly different to the mens system back then to what it is now)

Given the above, one can safely conclude that the player has no requirement under the rules to manually adjust his handicap. Honour is a different thing though.

[Fishman Dan]

Perhaps a little misinterpreted - i didn't mean manually adjust, as much as to say 'be aware' of what it might be if scores were updated immediately.

I.e. Shoot 40 points on Tuesday, on Wednesday it could be fair to assume that a player (mid to high marker) will lose a shot. Therefore, show all precaution and play under a lower handicap, which as already mentioned above, is well within any rules or guidelines.

[Grunt]

Well to put this all to bed the 2 weeks after the missed card I played off the wrong handicap, giving myself a 2 shot reduction. After this time I was told that it wold never fix itself and told to play off what ever golflink said. S oin effect the problem is no longer a problem for me. I will get a good game again and lose the shots but there is nothing I can do now to fix it.

[Fishman Dan]

Until next time....

[Grunt]

Well I am throwing one last dice today, I have just sent an email to Bathurst to see if they have indeed received the card from Mac Grange. I have offered to do whatever is required to help fix the problem.

Let's see what happens now.

[Grunt]

Just a little note for all us Bathurst Members. Cards sent to the club by non Golflink clubs are processed by the Club Captain at Bathurst once a week, normally Fridays.