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BobsYourUncle
15th January 2021, 02:02 PM
For a while now I've been saying chipping & putting is the main weakness of my game. But let's look at some stats from a 2016 MGS article (https://mygolfspy.com/2016-report-overall-golfer-performance-by-handicap/) compared to my stats in GolfShot.


Putting:
https://www.ozgolf.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=52675&stc=1

I averaged 31 putts per round over my last 20 rounds. So I'm actually doing OK there.

GIR:
https://www.ozgolf.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=52676&stc=1

This is an area I've been pretty happy with lately, and this backs that up. Over my last 20 rounds, I've averaged 46%. That's pretty good.

FIR:
https://www.ozgolf.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=52677&stc=1


So as a 4 handicap, this suggests I should be hitting above 50% of fairways per round. My average? 35%. And that's being bumped up a bit by me taking a driving iron off the tee a bit more often because my driver has been poor. Ouch. My average over the last ~2 years of keeping stats is 41%, which is only marginally better. I know "effective" fairways is a better stat, but my home course isn't exactly tight off the tee, so these numbers are a pretty good indication of my driver performance.

Just looking at recent rounds, it's fairly obvious to me that my (in)ability to get in the fairway off the tee is costing me shots. Sure, I'll miss a couple of putts, and hit a few average chips, but if I could place my ball in the middle of the fairway on all 14 par 4/5s, I'm going to shoot pretty close to even par.

So there's something I need to work on, and drawing some inspiration from Flavzz's thread on driver improvement, here's mine. My goal: I want to get to 60% FIW.

I'm going to make a serious effort over the next few months to work on my game off the tee, and post my progress here.

I don't have a really solid plan yet. Step 1 is probably to just hit more balls with driver/3w/3i, because that's not something I've been focusing on much when practicing recently. I'm also going to work on target selection - all the experts seem to think you need to pick a precise target, but I'm pretty slack there, usually just making a half-hearted attempt at picking a target line.

AndyP
15th January 2021, 02:57 PM
35% does seem low. Good luck!

Wenz
15th January 2021, 03:09 PM
I'm very sceptical about that FIR table.
25+ handicaps hitting 43% of fairways. I have plenty of mates that are in this category and the main reason is because they are always punching out of the trees from their drive.

Hatchman
15th January 2021, 03:15 PM
Good luck with your quest.
Don't get too obsessed with it though and neglect the short game in the process.
From my own personal experience spending a fair amount of years playing in the 3-6 Hcp region hitting more fairways never equated to hitting more GIR for me. My home courses during those years had mostly small Greens with the bigger ones more considered medium size if that means anything.

BobsYourUncle
15th January 2021, 03:16 PM
I'm very sceptical about that FIR table.
25+ handicaps hitting 43% of fairways. I have plenty of mates that are in this category and the main reason is because they are always punching out of the trees from their drive.

That was initially my thought too, but I have seen a few other articles quoting similar figures. I play with a bunch of older guys in my weekday comp, and they are definitely getting those sorts of numbers (probably more) - just further back. I guess if you're a 20hcp hitting it 220+, you're not hitting 40% of fairways. But if you're a 20hcp hitting it 180m, maybe you are hitting 50%+.

Hatchman
15th January 2021, 03:19 PM
I'm very sceptical about that FIR table.
25+ handicaps hitting 43% of fairways. I have plenty of mates that are in this category and the main reason is because they are always punching out of the trees from their drive.

I'd suggest that category is full of old Coffin Dodgers just bunting up the middle all day skewing the stats of younger and new players that don't have a compass with their games yet.

markTHEblake
15th January 2021, 08:29 PM
Uncke Bob, your solution is obvious.. get a lesson on a LM. And get fitted for a driver and look at a shorter shaft

Flavzz
15th January 2021, 08:59 PM
Very interesting numbers BYU. Have you kept stats of your misses (left/right, shot type etc, block, draw/fade)? I'm currently working on alignment and picking a small target, it doesn't help my poor swings but is starting to give me confidence that my setup is correct. This helps to try and swing freely.

jimandr
15th January 2021, 09:03 PM
There is actually an awful lot to unpack and digest in these stats and how they apply to players in the real world. I'm hoping our resident stats man Bushy sees this thread and comments.

I'll simply say that I don't fit the profile for my handicap at all, for games where I play close to my handicap. Should I even count the 24 point scores where I have 38 putts and hit zero greens in reg? And frankly, I don't care about those games from a stats point of view. I only care about games where I've played reasonably well and feel I'm capable of doing better if I could address certain issues. Then I might decide to work harder on short game or putting or middle irons. (But in reality I won't do any of these things)

I'll also say I'm not sure I would want to fit the profile. I want to play my own game and have fun, not hit 6 iron off every tee to boost my fairway stats.

Perhaps Bob should actually try something like that for a little while, hitting nothing but fairway finders, and then compare how he scores. Will it be as much fun as smashing driver, then playing miracle recoveries from wherever his ball has finished? Maybe, maybe not.

BobsYourUncle
16th January 2021, 11:59 AM
Very interesting numbers BYU. Have you kept stats of your misses (left/right, shot type etc, block, draw/fade)? I'm currently working on alignment and picking a small target, it doesn't help my poor swings but is starting to give me confidence that my setup is correct. This helps to try and swing freely.

I keep track of whether I miss left or right, but no shot shape. Lately (with driver) I've been missing left with a pull or (more often) right with a fade/slice. I've been working on my swing to fix that left-right shot shape.

Played 9 this morning and the work on the swing has produced some results, a much straighter ball flight on the 3 holes I used driver. Hit 3/7 fairways, but only the miss on the 1st hole cost me, the others were in the rough with clear shots at the green.

More detail:
10: 3i pushed right, 2nd shot blocked by a tree
11: Driver, straight, fairway
13: 3i, slight draw, fairway
14: Driver, pushed right but straight, rough
15: Driver, pulled left with slight fade (heel strike), rough
17: 3i, straight, fairway
18: 3i, pulled left, 2nd shot slightly obstructed but got up and down

BobsYourUncle
17th January 2021, 05:28 PM
Pennants today (had a win) - didn't hit driver that much but hit it pretty well when I did. I seem to have eliminated the occasional slice that was plaguing me, but still pulling a few.

Flavzz
17th January 2021, 06:21 PM
Pennants today (had a win) - didn't hit driver that much but hit it pretty well when I did. I seem to have eliminated the occasional slice that was plaguing me, but still pulling a few. Good man. What determined when you would hit driver?

BobsYourUncle
17th January 2021, 06:34 PM
Good man. What determined when you would hit driver? Course I played has 6 par 3s, and bunch of shorter par 4s where driver isn't needed. I pretty much hit driver wherever it made sense, without taking too much risk. 6 times IIRC - 4 par 5s, the two longer par 4s. Probably 4 more holes where driver could work, but I played them more conservatively. Oh, and didn't play the 18th (matchplay), where I probably would've had a crack at the green with driver.

Flavzz
17th January 2021, 08:34 PM
Course I played has 6 par 3s, and bunch of shorter par 4s where driver isn't needed. I pretty much hit driver wherever it made sense, without taking too much risk. 6 times IIRC - 4 par 5s, the two longer par 4s. Probably 4 more holes where driver could work, but I played them more conservatively. Oh, and didn't play the 18th (matchplay), where I probably would've had a crack at the green with driver. Sounds like a good strategy if you can hit the par 5s in 2 or if danger is relatively low. I think the good part of writing down your goals like this is that you generally put more thought into getting off the tee and hitting smart / positive shots. Self analysing and being honest about any part of your game is always helpful IMO.

BobsYourUncle
21st January 2021, 10:49 AM
Statistically not a great driving round today (5 fairways). 6 real misses, but still made par on 2 of those holes. Hit driver on a few holes I might not normally take it, for the sake of practice. Definitely showing some improvement in shot shape and direction though, which is something.

1: D, fairway
2: D, right trees
3: D, just off the fairway
4: 3i, right trees (terrible shot, wasn't committed over the ball)
7: D, just off the fairway
8: D, right rough, clear shot at green
9: D, right trees
10: 4h, fairway
11: D, fairway
13: D, just off the fairway
14: D, right trees
15: D, left trees
17: D, right trees then D, fairway (cutting the corner over a large area of scrub/trees :razz:)
18: 3i, fairway

BobsYourUncle
22nd January 2021, 03:34 PM
Anyone here playing a shorter-than-standard driver shaft? I was playing around earlier with a 3w length tensei blue shaft (playing about 2 1/4" less than my normal driver shaft), and the results were better than I expected (see stats below). Felt a lot more in control of the club head, and didn't lose very much distance (maybe 3-5mph less clubhead speed, 10m less carry, slightly higher spin compared to my usual numbers). I did have the loft adjusted up a little bit too (10.5deg instead of 9), which will explain some of that difference. Felt good, might put it in play next time I'm on the course.

https://i.imgur.com/hCKOvfUh.png
https://i.imgur.com/JbT0jqLh.png

markTHEblake
22nd January 2021, 04:29 PM
Whats standard?
My driver is 44.25"

If you go shorter you will need to increase weight, either heavier shaft or add weight to the head

BobsYourUncle
22nd January 2021, 04:39 PM
My usual driver shaft is 45". Yes, the swing weight will be a bit lighter, but it felt alright. I could always add some lead tape. I've got a heavier shaft I could try too.

wazamac
22nd January 2021, 06:06 PM
Do what feels right for you.
Its good to experiment around sometimes. I played with different shafts, lengths until settling on one when we played Strath.

hippo10
22nd January 2021, 07:51 PM
I cut my driver down to 43.5" inches and it's much better for me. May have lost 10 yards on drives that have been absolutely smoked but have game has benefited much more from the greater consistency.

benno_r
22nd January 2021, 08:11 PM
My driver is 43.75". Luckily the F9 has 2 weight ports, so ordered some heavier extra weights to get the swingweight on point.

BobsYourUncle
22nd January 2021, 08:16 PM
Played a quick twilight 9. Have to say it feels alright with the 65g shaft. I've got a 75g shaft in my 3w, I'll try it in the driver over the weekend.

BUSHY
23rd January 2021, 05:47 PM
I played 44” or shorter for years. My new G425 was ordered at ‘Ladies Length’ which I believe is 44.25”

Standard these days is becoming 45.25 and 45.5.

BUSHY
23rd January 2021, 05:48 PM
https://i.imgur.com/hCKOvfUh.png
https://i.imgur.com/JbT0jqLh.png

What settings have you got the fairway on to get that much roll??

BobsYourUncle
23rd January 2021, 05:57 PM
What settings have you got the fairway on to get that much roll?? Whatever the default is. I find it's pretty similar to reality (outside of soft winter fairways).

BUSHY
23rd January 2021, 07:10 PM
Whatever the default is. I find it's pretty similar to reality (outside of soft winter fairways).

Yeah sweet. I haven’t looked at mine but my fairway behaves pretty soft.

markTHEblake
24th January 2021, 01:13 PM
What settings have you got the fairway on to get that much roll??

maybe its the worm burners he is hitting :) 23m average height is very low.

BOB, imo you wanna be looking at hitting the ball higher with less spin, you will get easily 10m or more carry if you get around a 30m apex with spin of around 2200.
and lower spin means straighter hits.

aussieashley
24th January 2021, 01:37 PM
I struggle with the low ball as well. Are there any good YouTube videos or tips for hitting it higher?

Teeing it higher and moving it forward in my stance results in big cuts. As does trying to sweep it or hit it on the up.

BobsYourUncle
24th January 2021, 02:04 PM
I do have a "penetrating" flight. My problem is my angle of attack is too low. I can launch it higher, but lose a bit of accuracy. Just need to practice I guess.

markTHEblake
24th January 2021, 03:11 PM
I struggle with the low ball as well. Are there any good YouTube videos or tips for hitting it higher?
thousands, but you need to find out why you hit it low first. If you address the wrong cause you will be doomed.
ie obviously moving the ball forward (on its own) is not for you.

quick tip wider stance for higher, narrower stance for lower, without changing ball position relative to left foot.

JoeS
24th January 2021, 07:19 PM
YouTube lessons are sh1t

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Toxic
25th January 2021, 04:12 PM
thousands, but you need to find out why you hit it low first. If you address the wrong cause you will be doomed.ie obviously moving the ball forward (on its own) is not for you.quick tip wider stance for higher, narrower stance for lower, without changing ball position relative to left foot. This times 1000........Subtle changes - consistent results for me anyway

BobsYourUncle
25th January 2021, 07:29 PM
Played around with my AoA today, and while I can get my ball flight up and my carry towards 250, the accuracy goes out the window. It's probably worth more time practising though to see if I can make it work - but this mission is about increasing my accuracy, not distance.

Flavzz
25th January 2021, 08:08 PM
Played around with my AoA today, and while I can get my ball flight up and my carry towards 250, the accuracy goes out the window. It's probably worth more time practising though to see if I can make it work - but this mission is about increasing my accuracy, not distance.

Out of interest what spin numbers were you getting when you tried to increase your AOA, specifically back/side spin vs your standard swing?

BobsYourUncle
25th January 2021, 08:19 PM
Out of interest what spin numbers were you getting when you tried to increase your AOA, specifically back/side spin vs your standard swing? 2500 or so on a good swing. Side spin was a problem on bad swings.

Flavzz
25th January 2021, 08:28 PM
2500 or so on a good swing. Side spin was a problem on bad swings. And what sort of AOA were you getting? I read this article the other day https://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/features/equipment-features/2020/january/why-you-shouldnt-chase-high-launch-low-spin-in-2020/The chart is specifically interesting to note. If Ping engineers tell me it's not all about low spin but more about matching your numbers I believe them. Be interesting to see how your standard numbers match up.

BobsYourUncle
26th January 2021, 12:40 PM
My launch monitor doesn't measure AoA. At a guess I was around 4 degrees at most. Spin was still a little high, but I wasn't using a really low-spin shaft.

Flavzz
26th January 2021, 01:29 PM
My launch monitor doesn't measure AoA. At a guess I was around 4 degrees at most. Spin was still a little high, but I wasn't using a really low-spin shaft. All good. I wouldn't get too caught up in the numbers. You could also crank up the loft on the M5 and see what the flight is like (if you haven't already).

Kelsey86
26th January 2021, 08:36 PM
I'm off 18 at the moment and average just under 33 putts per round. I don't always pick the line but I've always had a knack for judging the speed well. If I could get my greens up more I could bring my scores down further. I have been improving my GIR the last half dozen rounds though, getting the percentage from the teens or worse up to around 30, and it's shown in my scores being consistent in the mid-high 80s instead of 90+. Today I hit 6, and played those 6 holes at -1 (5p, 1b) in a round of 87. This has occurred in a few rounds, scoring well on the GIR holes, and has become my target area of improvement for this year.. I'd like to hit more fairways as well but at most of the courses I play it doesn't really matter if I miss slightly as there's usually still a clear shot at the green.

3Puttpete
26th January 2021, 09:10 PM
I'm off 18 at the moment and average just under 33 putts per round. I don't always pick the line but I've always had a knack for judging the speed well. If I could get my greens up more I could bring my scores down further. I have been improving my GIR the last half dozen rounds though, getting the percentage from the teens or worse up to around 30, and it's shown in my scores being consistent in the mid-high 80s instead of 90+. Today I hit 6, and played those 6 holes at -1 (5p, 1b) in a round of 87. This has occurred in a few rounds, scoring well on the GIR holes, and has become my target area of improvement for this year.. I'd like to hit more fairways as well but at most of the courses I play it doesn't really matter if I miss slightly as there's usually still a clear shot at the green.

Finally someone has worked it out!

More power to you.

AndyP
26th January 2021, 09:19 PM
Finally someone has worked it out! More power to you.I don't think it is all about hitting greens, because it is not that easy, but if you do miss them in regulation, don't miss them by much.

3Puttpete
26th January 2021, 09:46 PM
I don't think it is all about hitting greens, because it is not that easy, but if you do miss them in regulation, don't miss them by much.

Hitting greens isn’t easy but hitting greens to score better is that simple

Kelsey86
27th January 2021, 08:03 AM
Yeah, I don't mind missing the green if it's still close enough to putt or otherwise get close enough to the hole for an easy putt. I have been hitting my irons quite well lately for the most part, just working on improving the radar. Distances are mostly on point.As for fairways, like every other part of my game it's a work in progress, just trying to reduce the amount of times I end up in the trees first off, which I have improved on. The more clear shots at the green I can have, obviously the more chance I have of hitting more of them. At this point I'm not bothered if it's from the fairway or light rough.

mrbluu
27th January 2021, 08:06 AM
I'm off 18 at the moment and average just under 33 putts per round. I don't always pick the line but I've always had a knack for judging the speed well. If I could get my greens up more I could bring my scores down further. I have been improving my GIR the last half dozen rounds though, getting the percentage from the teens or worse up to around 30, and it's shown in my scores being consistent in the mid-high 80s instead of 90+. Today I hit 6, and played those 6 holes at -1 (5p, 1b) in a round of 87. This has occurred in a few rounds, scoring well on the GIR holes, and has become my target area of improvement for this year.. I'd like to hit more fairways as well but at most of the courses I play it doesn't really matter if I miss slightly as there's usually still a clear shot at the green.

6 GIR should be enough to break 80. So for you it's not the GIR.

Sent from my SM-N970F using Tapatalk

BobsYourUncle
27th January 2021, 09:14 AM
It's correct to say hitting greens = lower scores, but "hit more greens" isn't much of a plan - how are you going to hit more greens? If you're missing greens because you need to work on short irons & wedges, do that, but if you're missing greens because you're missing fairways, work on that first. And yes, "effective fairways" is a better measure, but having a clear shot at the green doesn't matter if you're stuck in heavy rough or other bad lies off the fairway. That depends on the course you're playing.

I'm working on breaking 70, so I need birdies. Easier to make birdies from the fairway than the rough.

BobsYourUncle
27th January 2021, 09:24 AM
Anyway, I hit 8/14 fairways at Links Lay Bay yesterday, pretty happy with that.

Kelsey86
27th January 2021, 10:57 AM
Yeah, I need to improve in areas other than hitting greens, no question about that. Obviously to hit more greens I need to put myself in positions to do so more often, then it's up to me to hit the next shot well enough to get on the green or close enough to it. There are occasions where I'll be in such a position then stuff the next shot, usually chunking it. I have reduced this with practice and playing, though it still happens once or twice a round.
I usually don't have too much trouble around or on the green so I'm mainly working on hitting more accurate tee and second shots, as those areas are where I tend to add most of the unwanted extra shots.
Considering where I started a year ago after a long time not playing at all, I'm reasonably happy with my progress so far.

mrbluu
27th January 2021, 11:19 AM
Yeah, I need to improve in areas other than hitting greens, no question about that. Obviously to hit more greens I need to put myself in positions to do so more often, then it's up to me to hit the next shot well enough to get on the green or close enough to it. There are occasions where I'll be in such a position then stuff the next shot, usually chunking it. I have reduced this with practice and playing, though it still happens once or twice a round.
I usually don't have too much trouble around or on the green so I'm mainly working on hitting more accurate tee and second shots, as those areas are where I tend to add most of the unwanted extra shots.
Considering where I started a year ago after a long time not playing at all, I'm reasonably happy with my progress so far.To me it sounds like you need to work on your game inside 120m

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Kelsey86
27th January 2021, 11:44 AM
To me it sounds like you need to work on your game inside 120mSent from my SM-N970F using Tapatalk Certainly room for improvement there too but if I'm taking three or four shots to get there because of a bad tee shot it's not gonna help a whole lot on its own. So it's a bit of both. Unfortunately due to my work hours the only real time I have to practise is by playing on weekends, so I'm not expecting quick improvement. Either way I enjoy myself most of the time and I am seeing improvement coming slowly.

3Puttpete
27th January 2021, 12:00 PM
To me it sounds like you need to work on your game inside 120m

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Other than pulling this from your behind, how have you come to this conclusion?

mrbluu
27th January 2021, 12:09 PM
Other than pulling this from your behind, how have you come to this conclusion?Personal experience...

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3Puttpete
27th January 2021, 12:23 PM
Personal experience...

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That’s the spirit.

Hatchman
27th January 2021, 09:02 PM
Looking at the size of the Greens at Links Lady Bay made me think off how irrelevant just hitting GIR is a metric to measure for handicap players. You could easily fit 5-6 Greens from my home course into one of the LLB Greens.
Many of the stats are only relevant to the width of fairways and size of Greens when it comes to handicap golfers.

Kelsey86
27th January 2021, 09:47 PM
I guess my personal experience is a bit different, recently anyway. Shots from 150m in have been alright in terms of ball striking alone. I might come up a little short or miss to the side a bit, cop a bad bounce or whatever, but not many sprayed way off line and hardly any chunks, so those short irons and wedges aren't really a huge part of costing strokes for me. The past couple of rounds more than half of these shots found the green. What's costing me is these shots are third or fourth on a hole a few times a round instead of "regulation" because the tee shot found trouble. I'm working on that as well and also seeing improvement, even if it is slow. I have bad days like anyone does but on average I'm finding trouble off the tee less and less.

mrbluu
28th January 2021, 09:48 AM
I guess my personal experience is a bit different, recently anyway. Shots from 150m in have been alright in terms of ball striking alone. I might come up a little short or miss to the side a bit, cop a bad bounce or whatever, but not many sprayed way off line and hardly any chunks, so those short irons and wedges aren't really a huge part of costing strokes for me. The past couple of rounds more than half of these shots found the green. What's costing me is these shots are third or fourth on a hole a few times a round instead of "regulation" because the tee shot found trouble. I'm working on that as well and also seeing improvement, even if it is slow. I have bad days like anyone does but on average I'm finding trouble off the tee less and less.

How bad are you driving it to take 2 or 3 shots to get back in play?

3Puttpete
28th January 2021, 10:01 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210128/3ae17d7ab844b03b08bd37ea9739d940.jpg

PeteyD
28th January 2021, 10:04 AM
You are missing a putt.

3Puttpete
28th January 2021, 10:18 AM
You are missing a putt.

The chip was with the putter from the fringe

Kelsey86
28th January 2021, 11:29 AM
How bad are you driving it to take 2 or 3 shots to get back in play? I'm not taking two or three shots to get back in play, unless I hit a tree on the way out and have to do it again. My point was that it doesn't help me score lower to mainly focus on those shots if my tee shots are all over the place, because even if I hit them well if it's the 4th shot or whatever then the shots are being wasted elsewhere. Since I am already reasonably consistent with the approaches and improving there too, I'm working more on being more accurate off the tee, where I am also seeing gradual, albeit slow, improvement. As a result my scores are slowly coming down. I do have bad days where nothing works for whatever reason and the score blows out but overall I'm getting better and having fewer blowout holes each round. I'm not expecting it to happen quickly but it is nice to see improvement and my round average dropping.

Hatchman
28th January 2021, 04:28 PM
The chip was with the putter from the fringe

Where's the shot with the chipper?

3Puttpete
28th January 2021, 04:50 PM
Where's the shot with the chipper?

That’s the punch out

Hatchman
28th January 2021, 05:13 PM
That’s the punch out

Too much loft, you wont get out in 1.

3Puttpete
28th January 2021, 05:56 PM
Too much loft, you wont get out in 1.

It has a leading edge you know.

markTHEblake
28th January 2021, 06:59 PM
Pete, you should try the one length iron set - then you would have about 8 chippers

3Puttpete
28th January 2021, 07:09 PM
Pete, you should try the one length iron set - then you would have about 8 chippers

You’d have to be an idiot to play those

markTHEblake
28th January 2021, 08:50 PM
I only got one, and its a trial.

BobsYourUncle
26th February 2021, 05:47 PM
Haven't posted here in a while. Results haven't been good, but a swing fix/change is showing some improvements, especially reducing the 2-way miss. I've also started working on my 3 wood - I've neglected it for too long, and want to get back to it being a reliable tee club.

BobsYourUncle
5th March 2021, 06:54 PM
I feel like I might’ve turned a corner today, hitting 6/7 effective fairways in a 9 hole practice round at a pretty tight course. And the one I missed was the only hole I didn't hit driver on. Let's see if I can do that a few rounds in a row now...

BobsYourUncle
15th April 2021, 01:08 PM
Things are definitely looking up at the moment - 10/14 fairways today, 12/14 effective. Unfortunately lack of attention is starting to hurt my approach game :roll:

Ferrins
15th April 2021, 01:51 PM
Play RQ

BobsYourUncle
15th April 2021, 02:13 PM
Maybe next time I get up to Qld.