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View Full Version : Stopping the flip and getting more shaft lean



Matt 3 Jab
30th May 2020, 04:46 PM
So I've started to lose a lot of distance and I think the flip is getting worse

The ball should be going further with my swing speed and I'm losing it up in the air

Any drills / videos / good teachers for this???

Struggle street

okitoki
30th May 2020, 05:56 PM
My flipping issues are mainly due to my leaning right on my back swing and either stay right or I end up casting and flipping my wrist.

Watched Top speed golf on YouTube and one of his iron drill video he mentioned some people mistakenly place too much weight on the front foot before the back swing which cause some people to sway right.
So he suggested on a drill to place some weight on the inside of the back foot on address which stop the back swing sway.

I've been using that during my range session and in my garage (3/4 back swing and half follow through)

I've been hitting my irons much more cleanly and actually have some ball compression instead of packing it. I could even hit my 5 iron today

markTHEblake
30th May 2020, 06:47 PM
If you stop flipping you will it it gay right.
Flipping is the symptom not the problem.

Find out why you need to flip, and fix that.

NewyMitch
30th May 2020, 07:43 PM
Matt I had a fitting with Brad McIntosh over at Golf Hub Central Coast a while back and he showed me that my flip was due to a big lateral slide. I think that fitting session ended up being more a lesson than a fitting in the end.

I've been falling back into old habits lately so I've gone back to the drills he gave me to try and rotate through the ball a lot more. This has helped to minimise the flip and get my ballstriking back on track. One thing to note, I needed to weaken my overly strong grip with the change to stop pulling everything left.

3oneday
30th May 2020, 07:44 PM
If you stop flipping you will it it gay right.
Flipping is the symptom not the problem.

Find out why you need to flip, and fix that.this is what I discovered too. The flip is the result of being stuck somewhere and having to compensate to correct it.

Try hitting hard fades at the range for a bucket and see if that helps.

BUSHY
30th May 2020, 08:03 PM
So I've started to lose a lot of distance and I think the flip is getting worse

The ball should be going further with my swing speed and I'm losing it up in the air

Any drills / videos / good teachers for this???

Struggle street

What happened to 4:30 path?

BUSHY
30th May 2020, 08:12 PM
Maybe time for some George Gankas??

Lucasto23
30th May 2020, 09:35 PM
So I've started to lose a lot of distance and I think the flip is getting worse

The ball should be going further with my swing speed and I'm losing it up in the air

Any drills / videos / good teachers for this???

Struggle street

Maybe you’re getting old... all jokes aside what 3OD said is a good place to start as you have to hold that face open to hit the cut.

I would work on a rotation drill, ball teed up to start with just inside front foot big toe. Place your rear leg behind you and make sure your on your right toes. Start with slow half swings and feel you are releasing with your body and your chest gets more over the ball.

This will help you sequence your release better. Swing smooth or you will fall in your arse :)

markTHEblake
31st May 2020, 07:55 AM
Maybe time for some George Gankas?? Love the G.

Captain Nemo
31st May 2020, 12:26 PM
Maybe time for some George Gankas??
:lol:

Matt 3 Jab
31st May 2020, 01:13 PM
I actually got the chance to hit some range balls today.

Really focused on the wrist set in the backswing, and a proper release with some heavy shaft lean rotating closed.

Started to find a good spot. Will see how it all ends up Wednesday but the ball was coming out lower.

Hard_Pan
31st May 2020, 09:20 PM
In my experience, I was flipping to stop the ball going too far right after swinging from the inside too much. Found this out after hitting shanks after forward pressing to deloft the club on the downswing. Really did not think I was coming from the inside too much until this happened.

chappy1970
1st June 2020, 07:08 AM
I've just dropped by for the comments Matt.

Flipping, as well as OTT, are my most common swing faults.

Bigbad
1st June 2020, 09:35 AM
https://youtu.be/EfcMXo23oU8

This will help. Sounds like you're just getting stuck in transition which leads to your hands trying to "catch up" in turn flipping at impact.

Matt 3 Jab
1st June 2020, 09:39 AM
Cheers. Great video

That's what I was working on. Felt I had better compression and didn't lose too many right.

Will keep working on it.

BUSHY
1st June 2020, 10:30 AM
Cheers. Great video

That's what I was working on. Felt I had better compression and didn't lose too many right.

Will keep working on it.

Have you seen the Steve Bann ‘Laws of Impact’ series on YT?

I’ve got this saved as it’s always a good refresher.


https://youtu.be/daizvuvZw1s

Matt 3 Jab
4th June 2020, 07:27 PM
Well the drill and the forward shaft lean / rotating closed worked really well

13/14 fairways (only missed the 1st)

Only managed 9 greens however but feeling like the ball flight was lower especially off the tee

Will keep working at it

NewyMitch
4th June 2020, 08:07 PM
Well the drill and the forward shaft lean / rotating closed worked really well13/14 fairways (only missed the 1st) Only managed 9 greens however but feeling like the ball flight was lower especially off the teeWill keep working at itIt's always nice when a drill or change helps. I'm hoping you missed the 1st to the right and not the left...

Matt 3 Jab
4th June 2020, 08:07 PM
It's always nice when a drill or change helps.I'm hoping you missed the 1st to the right and not the left...I missed it about 50 right [emoji23]

NewyMitch
4th June 2020, 08:08 PM
I missed it about 50 right [emoji23] That's much much better than 50m to the left :)

Diamonds
5th June 2020, 09:39 AM
In my experience, I was flipping to stop the ball going too far right after swinging from the inside too much. Found this out after hitting shanks after forward pressing to deloft the club on the downswing. Really did not think I was coming from the inside too much until this happened. Interesting discussion. I had a series of lessons under two Pros in the last 4 years. All were for fighting the flip. Based on video analysis I tried hitting punch cutsfor a while as an anti flip remedy. Big focus on hands forward at impact. Never got anywhere of note despite lots of practice. Finally got on trackman recently. I am steep and from theinside exclusively. 4-8 degrees inside. Worse as a session goes on. So it turns out my flip islikely trying to counteract the massive blocks I start hitting as the day goes on. I was not OTT or even close to neutral once. So now I am only concentrating on shallowing out and not worryingwith hands ahead/shaft lean so much. Has freed mymind of one factor anyway.

Matt 3 Jab
5th June 2020, 09:49 AM
The biggest thing for me was the forward shaft lean and the rotation of the club closed. The two need to go hand in hand otherwise its block city

okitoki
5th June 2020, 10:26 AM
The biggest thing for me was the forward shaft lean and the rotation of the club closed. The two need to go hand in hand otherwise its block city

thats pretty much where I am at the moment for the longer clubs. if timing is off, then it is just a beautiful straight ball flight ...... to the right

BayBum
5th June 2020, 02:44 PM
I'm a goat humping flipper. If I can keep the club head outside of my hands, I don't struggle with it as much.

davepuppies
5th June 2020, 04:45 PM
I struggle with this too.....

Come to much from the inside, i slide laterally then try to manipulate my hands through impact.

Sucks, as i hit both ways depending on how my hands behave.

Need to get some lessons and practice if i ever want to hot a fairway again!

markTHEblake
5th June 2020, 05:41 PM
Just hit fades that start left and come back to target. You just cant do that with a flip.

My coach got me doing that by just telling me to try swing out to in as much as I could. Even then at the beginning i was still in to out. Was fun to see these on the LM. What i felt was nowhere near reality.

davepuppies
5th June 2020, 06:05 PM
Just hit fades that start left and come back to target. You just cant do that with a flip.My coach got me doing that by just telling me to try swing out to in as much as I could. Even then at the beginning i was still in to out. Was fun to see these on the LM. What i felt was nowhere near reality. Because I’m retarded I take it outside the line, but somehow end up dripping it inside and get even further stuck!

Webster
5th June 2020, 07:11 PM
Matt,

Feet together, slightly closed stance, flat swing, 4.30 path, no flip. Easy.

davepuppies
7th June 2020, 07:00 AM
Tried to play a fade yesterday, had open stance, took club outside line, but because I’m retarded I alway ended up re routing the club back inside and ended up hitting bid pushes, but because I weakened my grip, they turned right too...... was disastrous on a medal day.

i can’t seem to exit the club left through impact to hit a fade......

BUSHY
7th June 2020, 07:30 AM
Matt,

Feet together, slightly closed stance, flat swing, 4.30 path, no flip. Easy.

[emoji1360]

Don’t forget to turn, simple advice.

Webster
7th June 2020, 02:54 PM
Impossible not to turn with that set up

davepuppies
8th June 2020, 10:22 AM
Impossible not to turn with that set up

you mean hips into and through impact?

ithink I struggle turning left, and end up lateral sliding

Yossarian
8th June 2020, 09:26 PM
Matt,Feet together, slightly closed stance, flat swing, 4.30 path, no flip. Easy. Is 1200 the target like for the 430 path?

BUSHY
9th June 2020, 09:25 AM
Is 1200 the target like for the 430 path?

Target for 430 path as per Brad Hughes is @ 9 o’clock

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200609/3a7e383a6045b3348272e81d9aec0004.jpg

BUSHY
9th June 2020, 09:27 AM
Scroll forward to 1:08


https://youtu.be/hSg5UQbMPTo

AndyP
9th June 2020, 01:05 PM
Target for 430 path as per Brad Hughes is @ 9 o’clock

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200609/3a7e383a6045b3348272e81d9aec0004.jpg
****ing hard to get to 12 o'clock then.

PeteyD
9th June 2020, 02:44 PM
****ing hard to get to 12 o'clock then.
Not with the Hozel

BUSHY
10th June 2020, 07:48 PM
Not with the Hozel

Too right!! [emoji1787]

Yossarian
10th June 2020, 08:14 PM
Target for 430 path as per Brad Hughes is @ 9 o’clock https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200609/3a7e383a6045b3348272e81d9aec0004.jpg Shanks

okitoki
11th June 2020, 10:14 AM
I went to the range this morning to test out the new 3 wood; while waiting for the greens keeper to sort out the range area, I was following this drill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeJL1_typbE&t=514s

I was hoping to be able to relax my swing a little more, as I have a tendency, when tensed, to either cast my swing and pull left, or a flip which result in a thin shot.
After that, I followed up with about 5minutes of step forward swing to work on my weight shifting forward. (yeah, the green keepers were slow)

After that, I have to admit it has been one of the best 7i shots I have struck for awhile with good distance, ball contact and ball flight height.

Matt 3 Jab
18th July 2020, 03:37 PM
Well I don't know what I'm doing anymore but I do know how to hit a high push cut into the crap most holes.

Oh and my 7 iron now goes 145 instead of the 160 it used to!

And I can't turn the ball over any more, even if I rotate my arms as hard as I can closed. Still cuts.

Hooray for golf ........

gazgolf1
18th July 2020, 03:59 PM
Liked this video with the idea of towing the club into impact https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbPNBQh6MhI

exmrblonde
18th July 2020, 05:48 PM
Well I don't know what I'm doing anymore but I do know how to hit a high push cut into the crap most holes.Oh and my 7 iron now goes 145 instead of the 160 it used to!And I can't turn the ball over any more, even if I rotate my arms as hard as I can closed. Still cuts. Hooray for golf ........ MattYou sound EXACTLY like me !!!!Divots were pointing up to 45 degrees left with high, right super spinners killing me in the wind.Went and saw local pro - he told me to hit a few balls, told me my grip sucked balls, changed it and presto.Basically - the ‘V’ on my right hand was pointing to my left shoulder/chin, when it should be pointing to my right shoulder. He also looked at my glove and saw the wear marks in my palm, so he drew a line on my glove from the middle of my index finger to the base of my pinkie and told me to make sure the club is aligned to that.Felt horrible at first - almost like the face was super closed and the ball was too far back in my stance, however the results have been nothing short of amazing.Subconsciously- the body no longer wants to drag the club left, which has squared up my path and clubface - all by something as small as a grip change...

Matt 3 Jab
18th July 2020, 06:08 PM
Thanks I'll have a look

My divots have actually been very on target which is weird. But I think I've lost a lot of my shoulder turn going back so I'll just keep working at it.

Handicap can only go up!

Lucasto23
18th July 2020, 10:27 PM
Video from back of swing please, where is the face in the take away at hip height? Where is the club head in relation to target line, inside or outside? That is where I would start.

Sounds like the face is faning which is the lack of distance.

Does the strike feel centred off the face?

BUSHY
19th July 2020, 07:46 AM
https://youtu.be/EfcMXo23oU8

Matt 3 Jab
19th July 2020, 08:23 AM
Video from back of swing please, where is the face in the take away at hip height? Where is the club head in relation to target line, inside or outside? That is where I would start.

Sounds like the face is faning which is the lack of distance.

Does the strike feel centred off the face?If I ever went to the range I'll get one. Maybe next week before the round

At my guess (as usual) I'll be inside the line and flat. I'll check the face angle. Maybe I am fanning it open.

I feel I'm hitting the ball really well off the face. Divots seems square too.

Lucasto23
19th July 2020, 12:31 PM
If I ever went to the range I'll get one. Maybe next week before the round

At my guess (as usual) I'll be inside the line and flat. I'll check the face angle. Maybe I am fanning it open.

I feel I'm hitting the ball really well off the face. Divots seems square too.

Your definitely fanning then if that’s the case, you can start by getting your knuckles down on left hand in take away which should bring the club head back more in line with the target line and also address the fanning. Start there and see how you go

Stuartd147
19th July 2020, 12:43 PM
Hi Matt...I was reviewing divot paths after looking at the guys' earlier comments here regards Brad Hughes and came across this video....check out around 8:09 onwards....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0ypo0eoJR8

markTHEblake
19th July 2020, 12:50 PM
Your definitely fanning then if that’s the case, you can start by getting your knuckles down on left hand in take away which should bring the club head back more in line with the target line and also address the fanning. Start there and see how you go You were telling Ferrins the same thing right?

Kelsey86
19th July 2020, 01:53 PM
I don't know what I'm doing either, but I have stopped slicing the ball in the last couple of months. The only thing I've mucked around with is my grip and trying to keep my hands out in front more during the takeaway. I'm finding I'm hitting a lot straighter and have developed a handy little draw when punching out of left side trouble. I still hit the occasional slice but it's something like once a round rather than twice a hole now. It's mostly straight or slight deviation either way, distance is decent. I hardly ever top the ball, when I do stuff it up it's fat shots, and sometimes I pull the driver left.

flathook
31st July 2020, 05:45 PM
So I've started to lose a lot of distance and I think the flip is getting worse

The ball should be going further with my swing speed and I'm losing it up in the air

Any drills / videos / good teachers for this???

Struggle street

It's only a flip if the body stops moving. The idea that the feet have to be parallel to the target line is what hurts most players because they aren't flexible enough to turn their body enough where they can maintain momentum up to impact. Duval below giving a good explanation. Most people would benefit with an open stance but the ball position is important. Relative to the target the ball stays inside the leading foot but relative to the line of the feet the ball goes back in stance. Lee Trevino setup.

Hope this helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uync0tNe-28



(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uync0tNe-28)

Lucasto23
31st July 2020, 09:08 PM
You were telling Ferrins the same thing right?

Yep, as he was so inside it was not funny

markTHEblake
1st August 2020, 09:15 AM
It's only a flip if the body stops moving. The idea that the feet have to be parallel to the target line is what hurts most players because they aren't flexible enough to turn their body enough.This makes sense. On the other hand Moe Norman didnt do this, and i cant figure out yet in my mind how to not flip swinging the way he does :-)See this short clip especially the front on view comments https://youtu.be/Uolagc6TjFs

flathook
3rd August 2020, 08:02 PM
This makes sense. On the other hand Moe Norman didnt do this, and i cant figure out yet in my mind how to not flip swinging the way he does :-)See this short clip especially the front on view comments https://youtu.be/Uolagc6TjFs

Good point. He doesn't turn much. He matches a strong right hand with more of a lateral move but he still has enough momentum in his lower half to keep a short right arm before impact. Although Koepka's swing doesn't look like Moe's he does a similar thing matching a stronger right hand to a lateral move.
I like the Duval video because he talks about how it feels. Watching video of a tour pro makes it look like they are trying to close the club face but that is just the momentum of the swing. Not many would be trying to close the club face. Probably the opposite.
That lateral move is still unlikely for a lot of club golfers from what is taught as a "must have" stance where the feet are parallel to the target and the ball inside the left foot.
I still think that basic stance and setup is the biggest killer for most golfers. The swing should be taught from impact backwards and the setup sorts itself out.

andylo
4th August 2020, 12:53 PM
The swing should be taught from impact backwards and the setup sorts itself out.

My sentiment exactly.

Or actually, start from impact, talk about the 5 inches of travelling post impact. Then work backward to setup.

BUSHY
4th August 2020, 02:06 PM
My sentiment exactly.

Or actually, start from impact, talk about the 5 inches of travelling post impact. Then work backward to setup.

Kind of EXACTLY the way Brad Hughes teaches it!!!

Hey Matty3J [emoji6]

Start back with drill 1 then go through the series mate, you know its the best thing rather than ‘flipping’ (pun intended) from one thing to another.

markTHEblake
4th August 2020, 04:28 PM
alert - Andylo's login has been hacked!

Matt 3 Jab
17th August 2020, 07:26 PM
Update

Strengthened both hands. Stopped losing it right.

75/76

Might be onto something

BUSHY
17th August 2020, 08:51 PM
Update

Strengthened both hands. Stopped losing it right.

75/76

Might be onto something

Oooh, something like “both V’s pointing to the right ear/shoulder”?

I’ve read a pretty good book that promotes that.

BUSHY
17th August 2020, 09:06 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200817/13fb47f06fbe3a810563c8d25dbec28f.png

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200817/4624e21c783b89c0c77bdc020d011418.png

Matt 3 Jab
19th August 2020, 06:31 PM
Something like that

If the putter worked today it would have been another 75

79 wasn't the worst I could have had however

Jono
19th November 2020, 12:52 PM
Have you sorted this out Matt?

Matt 3 Jab
19th November 2020, 01:21 PM
No. I now aim right and hook it in

Hatchman
19th November 2020, 03:16 PM
The Tex Mex did ok shaping it in consistently.

Jono
19th November 2020, 04:32 PM
The Tex Mex did ok shaping it in consistently. Trevino was the most anti-flip pro ever.You CAN play golf with a flip but the club is unstable through impact and will likely be inconsistent under pressure.