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Fishman Dan
24th August 2006, 01:57 PM
Seeing as though the entire 1st tee thread is a debacle if you don't go in there regularly, I thought i'd post this in here and you can all argue about it for a month while I'm away.

I think the Stroke Champs (QLD/VIC/NSW) should be decided by the persons performance at their home course Medal round.

Benefits:

* Scores are easily tracked and reported via GolfLink.
* Everyone plays a course they are familiar with. No arguments as to who has an advantage
* Choppers can't complain that the round at The Vintage/Magenta/Brookwater etc cost them the title because they are only a crap golfer (no matter how much Tour gear they use)
* Total possible of 12 rounds played per year. Obviously the alleged "Rules Committee" can decide on how many need to count.
* People in remote areas (Ducky, Coffs Hacker, Speirsy) aren't excluded, as long as they play their Medal days.
* This concept can even be used to determine the national winner, with prizes for State winners.... (National winner can't win his/her state).

Feel free to list the negatives of the idea.

I figure it's the only way that the majority of people can play and be included, on a track that everyone is familiar with, and therefore consciously be convinced they are the most prepared on the day. Sure it's better to hold numerous days together, but take NSW for instance - we've seen the likelihood of getting (the same) 12+ people to 4 - 6 rounds per years. It's not going to happen.

Grunt
24th August 2006, 02:09 PM
I would be out of it as I doubt I would play 5 medal rounds a year with a Sydney Club as my home and with a Country home club that could very well be none.

AndyP
24th August 2006, 02:16 PM
What about those that don't and can't play medal days? Choppa, Vegas, golfer69, etc.

And why is the 1st tee area a debacle?

Fishman Dan
24th August 2006, 02:25 PM
Too much unread stuff and the place has gone to the pack. Too many sub-threads.. too confusing. Of course move this thread there if you wish.

Do Choppa, Vegas etc currently play enough of the QLD OzGolf stroke rounds to qualify?

I see Grant's point, but what are we talking here - potentially lose 1 candidate to gain 5 more? The NSW stroke champs have been a bit of a farce.

Courty
24th August 2006, 02:28 PM
Isn't this close to what the Vardon event is recording?

AndyP
24th August 2006, 02:35 PM
Too much unread stuff and the place has gone to the pack. Too many sub-threads.. too confusing. Of course move this thread there if you wish.
You're easily confused then.
Gone to the pack, because so many games are organised? Enlighten me here, how can it be improved?


Do Choppa, Vegas etc currently play enough of the QLD OzGolf stroke rounds to qualify?To qualify for what? Player of the Year? We don't have that stroke thing like the NSW stroke champs.

BrisVegas
24th August 2006, 02:43 PM
what are you on about Fishy???

PeteyD
24th August 2006, 02:45 PM
I think they have an OzGolf stroke championship for NSW.

Fishman Dan
24th August 2006, 02:50 PM
I think they have an OzGolf stroke championship for NSW.

Yes, and so far they have both turned up to every game :roll: ;)

There's a Vardon event? :shock:

TS
24th August 2006, 03:01 PM
Dan. The idea for the ozgolf NSW Stroke event is for NSW ozgolfer to get together and have some fun. Although we haven't been very sucessful in getting many people together. We did have 3 of them so far (1 was washed out). I can't see any value in using the scores from our home club.

Courty
24th August 2006, 03:04 PM
Note: Fishy has just been entered in the Vardon... :roll: :lol:

Fishman Dan
24th August 2006, 03:21 PM
TS - just to level the playing field. I see the vardon is up and running (must be new, i hadn't entered ;)).

For heavens sake, make a 'suggestion' around here and you suddenly become Public Enemy #1!

AndyP
24th August 2006, 03:23 PM
And thanks to your suggestion, I've deleted the 1st Tee area all together. All games are now to be organised via the chatroom.

Jarro
24th August 2006, 03:24 PM
You gotta keep up with what's happening Fishguts :roll:

Do your research before you come in here huffing and puffing.

Fishman Dan
24th August 2006, 03:34 PM
I did research. I thought "How many golfers here are members of clubs and attend regularly". The answer i came up with was "most". I thought of ways to exclude you but came up short - common sense prevails!

Jarro
24th August 2006, 03:39 PM
Is that any way to talk to the guy who sold you your new driver ???

At a bloody good price too i might add !

Fishman Dan
24th August 2006, 03:54 PM
I don't have to be nice to you for another month'n'a'half, when i get to use it again.... ;)

What was this topic about again?

dc68
24th August 2006, 03:56 PM
I think they have an OzGolf stroke championship for NSW.
Very good strokers down there!:p

Jarro
24th August 2006, 04:01 PM
Very good strokers down there!:p

The best ;)

goughy
24th August 2006, 04:29 PM
Hey fishy,

It does seem that what you propose is similar to the vardan event. With the exception that your suggestion restricts it to medal days. I also believe the vardan event does have a minimum number of rounds to be elegible. I might get their by the end of the year.

It will always be difficult to come up with a perfect system when some regions have an abundance of players able to get out together regularily and others don't. The POTY and Vardan may be the nearest we will be able to get to.

Fishman Dan
24th August 2006, 05:04 PM
Finally an answer from someone who read the original post in it's entirety!

Agreed that the 'perfect' solution doesn't exist. What I thought this brings is a course that, while not common to all, would be set up as tough as it could be, as long as it could be, and a stroke event, and while not all Medal days are held on the same day - there are 12 per year.

It's as even as a playing field will ever get for 150 internet forum users. The Vardon comes close, but isn't limited to competition type, and is flawed by odd comps (i.e. my 6-club event) and the odd course that doesn't register scores properly (no, i didn't "Played To: 51" at Cypress Lakes :roll:).

Grunt
24th August 2006, 05:20 PM
Dan,
I know the NSW Stroke Idea did not work but I will admit that is was mine. I did it to try to organise something that would produce regular NSW OzGolf Events.
I did it with no real chance of winning it myself, as you can see from the fact I have only made it to 2 events and one of those was washed out. As a shiftworker who only gets 2 weekends in five off work it is very hard for me to get to many weekend events. It would be the opposite if I had organised it midweek as myself and a couple of others would have been able to play in it. Remember I stood my ground on the debacle that was to be the 2nd round at Camden Lakeside, when the round was trying to be held midweek.
Next year I might be able to organise a couple of dates straight up and then see who turns up. I have noticed that some people just don't play as regularly as the rest of us. Maybe a planned series of rounds with dates settled early in the year may give people with enough time to plan for them. As it stands this year was not as sucessful as it was planned to be, but we learn from our mistakes don't we?

AndyP
24th August 2006, 05:35 PM
Grunt, it will only work for those who want to participate. For others, it won't be high on the priority list. I don't see how having a years worth of planned dates will fix this, and it probably wouldn't work logistically either.

Grunt
24th August 2006, 05:36 PM
yeah I know I just tried to plan ahead I guess.

AndyP
24th August 2006, 05:40 PM
It's as even as a playing field will ever get for 150 internet forum users.
I think you might struggle to get 40, maybe 30, of those 150 that play Monthly Honours.

BrisVegas
24th August 2006, 06:54 PM
I think the Vardon is as close to a level playing field as we can get. The non-traditional members like me haven't got a hope of qualifying for a Monthly-Medal scoring competition.

Courty
24th August 2006, 07:42 PM
You know what the solution is, don't you Fishy? You need to go on a recruitment drive to boost teh NSW membership.

goughy
24th August 2006, 07:44 PM
And technically the ccr on the day should even the course difficulty out a little. An easy sunday stab generally wouldn't have as high a ccr as your monthly medal.

markTHEblake
24th August 2006, 08:16 PM
Great Concept Fishman.

Suggestion: Type up the rules, keep the scores, buy a trophy, present it. Jobs done!

I have been toying with the idea of having a "National" open day. Pick an arbitary date, everyone plays the course of their choice, best net and gross wins (adjusted for CCR of course).

also a Fireball matchplay, same as above.

Fishman Dan
24th August 2006, 09:37 PM
I know the NSW Stroke Idea did not work but I will admit that is was mine. I did it to try to organise something that would produce regular NSW OzGolf Events

That had nothing to do with it Grant. You had a crack and kudos for giving it a go, but it was all too hard to organise so many people from so many different areas around Sydney. Someone ends up driving for 90-120 minutes to get anywhere.

Coupled with the fact that we only really have crap courses available to us, and at poor times of the day.


You know what the solution is, don't you Fishy? You need to go on a recruitment drive to boost teh NSW membership

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it enjoy the view.

See above, Grant tried and although a small group tried to make it regularly, others (myself included) just couldn't make the long term commitment to turn up on a Sunday at 11am in 8 weeks time.


And technically the ccr on the day should even the course difficulty out a little. An easy sunday stab generally wouldn't have as high a ccr as your monthly medal.

As said before - atleast on medal day you can be sure that the course is going to be set up a little longer and tougher.

3oneday
24th August 2006, 09:39 PM
I agree ;)

Fishman Dan
24th August 2006, 09:42 PM
I agree ;)

Just thought i'd capture the moment :shock:

jimandr
24th August 2006, 10:13 PM
I like Fishy's idea.

Why don't we do it anyway, separate to the Vardon, the Matchplay, the Championships and anything else we do.

For those who don't play Monthly Medals, let them count their first strokeplay game of the month, no matter where it is. Some degree of honour would be required, but I'm sure we can trust ourselves not to deliberately play off the social tees somewhere just for the purpose of posting a good score. Perhaps a rule in this circumstance is that the round must be witnessed by a fellow OzGolfer.

The NSW Strokeplay was a good idea, but it hasn't worked. I don't have any better suggestions.

Blakey wrote: "I have been toying with the idea of having a "National" open day. Pick an arbitary date, everyone plays the course of their choice, best net and gross wins (adjusted for CCR of course).

also a Fireball matchplay, same as above"

OzGolf Open - why not.

I don't know what a Fireball Matchplay is. I'm sure it will be explained, and then it can happen as well.

Courty
25th August 2006, 07:21 AM
You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it enjoy the view.

I guess that's the problem with you unsociable NSW types. ;)


I have been toying with the idea of having a "National" open day. Pick an arbitary date, everyone plays the course of their choice, best net and gross wins (adjusted for CCR of course).

That's all well & good, but what happens if the competition format of some of the selected clubs is 4BBB or some other team format? Golflink can't be relied on to provide individual results.


For those who don't play Monthly Medals, let them count their first strokeplay game of the month, no matter where it is. Some degree of honour would be required, but I'm sure we can trust ourselves not to deliberately play off the social tees somewhere just for the purpose of posting a good score. Perhaps a rule in this circumstance is that the round must be witnessed by a fellow OzGolfer.

This info is already in the Vardon data and would be very easy to extract (filter on Stroke rounds). However, take my club for example: Monthly Medal is usually the only stroke event for the month, so if I miss the Medal round in any given month, I'm out of it, even if I happen to play 6 other rounds of Stableford.
Also, being witnessed by a fellow Ozgolfer becomes a problem for those (like myself) in remote areas.

I'm not saying that this is a bad idea, just that some more thought needs to go into it. ;)

dc68
25th August 2006, 07:30 AM
Keep stroking it fellas.

3oneday
25th August 2006, 07:33 AM
Keep stroking it fellas.clown :p

I think the witness thing is a problem, won't happen in a medal in Sydney at all as it's members only.

I agreed in principle but am generally apathetic to taking part in Ozgolf days as we end up on a Sydney golf course on a Sunday (for us weekend golfers) with every man and his dog out there and it takes 5 hours minimum to play.

Pete

Fishman Dan
25th August 2006, 07:35 AM
Jim - Unfortunately I think it would have to be limited to Stroke Medal events at courses. Again, the point being that a course is set up pretty much alike on these days. Therefore we can semi-accurately assume that ACR's, CCR's and AGU handicaps are all pretty much as relevant as they can get. The problem here (and in the past?) is that when exceptions are made, all hell breaks loose.

As per Courty's post, quite often the only stroke rounds at my club are medal days, with the odd 'feature' stroke event throughout the year.

Courty
25th August 2006, 07:47 AM
Unfortunately I think it would have to be limited to Stroke Medal events at courses.

Correct. As per my earlier comments, I could easily extract these results from the Vardon data. Someone just needs to make the call of which round(s) are to be used to decide the winner(s). ie. average of all stroke rounds for the year/ first stroke round of the year/ best 3 stroke rounds etc.
Once this is decided, I can make it happen quite easily.