4th Test - England vs Paki's

[Fishman Dan]

I can't believe i'm the one to start this.

Views are welcome, but i'm going to make mine very clear. I'll start with a summary - The Paki's have cheated, and have done everything in their power to dramatise and escalate this to heights that are beyond their worth.

Darryl Hair has obviously seen something that contravenes the laws of the game, and acted accordingly. The decision not to come out to play was extreme and disgraceful, all of the Pakistani players are to be held accountable, including the Sth African Woolmer. He is their leader in times like this and should have dragged each and every player onto the ground.

From what i've read, it appears that the player in the spotlight is Umar Gul. The fact that a TV camera has not caught the event does not mean it did not happen.

From footage i've seen, the umpire notified the scorers of 5 penalty runs to the English. The catalyst of the decision made was when a new box of balls was brought to the crease, and the batsmen allowed to select a new ball. Under ordinary circumstances in the laws of cricket, and regular ball change is decided upon by the umpires unless there's a case of ball-tampering. Ul Haq was right to question the call, but ultimately they had to get on with the game. It was a game they were destined to win, albeit a series lost.

To come out some 30 minutes after the match was declared an English victory by forfeit was nothing more than a publicity stunt. An act of a guilty party to further incense the situation. Once a match is declared over (the ceremonial removal of the bails by the umpires), you cannot undo that action.

Of course, the sub-continental's have deemed this an act of a desperate man, and will burn effigies and carry on for all it's worth, until the ICC act. Hopefully the action will be sanctions against the Pakstani team, not umpire Hair.

At the end of the day, this is only an issue because the Paki's want it to be. If there is concern over Darryl Hair's legitimacy as a test umpire, then it should be dealt with off the field. To be honest, he's done what he is paid to do - enforce the laws of the game, and for those who want to draw unlikely parallels to the Murali chucking incident - he was right to express concern then too.

The Paki's have been caught cheating, and in my honest view it's time to stop treating these sub-continental pirates with cotton-wool. Let's see the ICC get tough. The best solution would be to relegate them to years of having to play against only Kenya, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, where their cheating and match-fixing means nothing to anyone.

[goughy]

Hard words Mr Fish. But the fact is in any sport the umpire/refs decision has to be respected. And when we stop doing that the whole game is changed. Personally I have no probs in with any sport enforcing harsh penalities against anyone disrespecting the officials.

[just]

Blah, blah, blah-everyone cheats except Australia and England-blah, blah. Oh sorry, thats right Warne's a drug cheat and a liar and several other Australians have been caught in betting scandals[-( . Get off your high horse. It was poor of Pakistan not to come back and they deserved to forfeit, but IMO Hair is just as much at fault, his behaviour when it comes to to sub-continental teams is poor and this time he is going to pay for it.

And I totally agree with Goughy when it comes to respecting officials and their decisions during the game.

[Fishman Dan]

I don't see any relevance in that post Just with the Warne saga(s) etc. There's 1 more umpire on the field, and another in the stands, as well as a match referee. This isn't Hair vs Pakistan, although some media outlets will go to town along these lines.

Besides, you can't say Hair treats the sub-continental teams with contempt, then sit on the fence and say you need to respect officials.

[BrisWesty]

If this was couched in boxing terms the Pakistan team refused to come out of their corner when the bell rang to start the 12th round of a 15 round fight. The result is a TKO to England despite Pakistan leading on points.

[markTHEblake]

Darryl Hair has obviously seen something that contravenes the laws of the game, and acted accordingly.

From what i have read, he did not.

Apparently he is required to inform the captain that he is required to take the field.

if that doesnt happen the umpire must then inform the captain if he doesnt not take the field he will forfeit the test, and allow him the opportunity to reconsider.

Then the umpire can declare the game a forfeit

According to a Cricinfo article that did not happen.

I wonder if the ICC have endorsed the forfeit on the basis of the above not being true, or that they cant argue with the umpires decision to bump the bails.

In either case this is a pretty sad event fpr cricket . Many times in cricket teams have walked off or not come out, and no umpire has done this. Strange that Hair was very quick to doff the bails.

[Fishman Dan]

Mark - valid points, but my quote is in reference to witnessing ball tampering.

I'm not sure about details regarding the processes to get the Pakistani team onto the field. There are also reports of 'acts of defiance' - players going out onto the team balcony and reading the paper at the height of it all.

[3oneday]

but my quote is in reference to witnessing ball tampering.the way I saw the news tonight, they saw the ball had been tampered with, but didn't see anyone actually do the tampering ???

Seems a little petulant in my opinion. It is calling someone a cheat, why play martyr ???

[markTHEblake]

Mark - valid points, but my quote is in reference to witnessing ball tampering.


Valid point.

I just meant Forfeiting the game had nothing to do with ball tampering.

Its kinda interesting anyway. If ball tampering is a 5 run penalty, it doesnt seem like such a bad thing?

[just]

I don't see any relevance in that post Just with the Warne saga(s) etc. There's 1 more umpire on the field, and another in the stands, as well as a match referee. This isn't Hair vs Pakistan, although some media outlets will go to town along these lines.

Besides, you can't say Hair treats the sub-continental teams with contempt, then sit on the fence and say you need to respect officials.
Dan
The relevance is Dan is that you go on to cast aspersions at the Paki's in general as cheats ( and should be relegated). Sure they have had their cheats(possibly more than most) but no other cricketing nation is free from cheats either, should we relegate them all. I was showing with little subtlety so even you could understand that even the home team harbours cheats so we shouldn't be quick off the mark to crap on about it. Obviously still too subtle for you.
It is Hair vs Pakistan, he is the one that initially called it. He has form with sub-continental teams and now will no doubt come under the microscope. If his decisions are suspect they should be reviewed.
And, yes I can say the above Dan. They should respect the umpires decision on the field and then make any official complaints/appeals after the match has been completed.
Just

[Grunt]

Your right Mark, what happens if you get say 5 quick wickets during a tampering stint? 5 runs off your total, gee that is a good risk. A single wicket would have to be worth more than 5 runs. Test Matches are not often that close any more are they?

[Fishman Dan]

Just - alterting the condition of the ball is cheating.

Subtlelty? Give me a break. It's true that Pakistan have had their fair share of bad press (Shoaib chucking, Salim Malik and match fixing, Inzi's 150 run out dismissals, especially against minnow nations), but i don't make any allusion to that in my original post. As you said, if you want to pick the bones, we've got just as many (Warne/M. Waugh scandal, Brett Lee chucking, Kaspa being allowed to play at all...). Heck, even Damien Martyn getting out in Sydney, leading to Australia's surprise loss to South Africa and his subsequent 6 year exile looks suss in that respect.

If you're going to call it Hair vs the subcontinent, why do you just call it racism? :roll: It will be interesting to see if the other umpire had *any* say in the proceedings. As yet however this is still an unknown, and Hair is in the spotlight. He will be a casualty out of this, that's for sure.

Mark - a 5 run penalty in a game where they are going to win. This is why the whole incident is nothing more than bringing the game into disrepute.

[McCoy]

Hair was a former grade fast bowler, he's umpired for almost 20 years - so I think he knows a tampered ball when he sees one. Surely Hair showed the ball to the other umpire who agreed with Hair's call. Doctrove is black, so doesn't that rule out racism? The Poms were 4-300 and Pakistan were desperate to win. I reckon the ball's been tampered with.
And I've always thought Pak vs Bangladesh 1999 WC was fixed. Chasing 224 they were 5-42, Saeed Anwar's run out was too comical. If I remember correctly Inzamam is struck on the pad, the ball scoots out near gully and Anwar calls him for one. Inzamam looks up and sees Anwar about halfway down the track and just lies down on the pitch. Anwar is run out. Wish that was on You Tube.

[Fishman Dan]

Don't get me wrong, I was on Canada to beat Pakistan at the last world cup. We had the following ticket;

Australia to beat India World Cup cricket (i think?)
Australia to beat England (soccer friendly - we all remember that)
Canada to be Pakistan World Cup cricket.

$20 turned into something like $1200 between 3 of us (paid about $60).

[jimandr]

Now that the dust has settled a bit (and mud is flying), it seems to me some very bad decision-making has taken place.

Firstly, Hair had to have been aware of the implication of his decision. If any team was likely to make an absolute mountain out of this it was Pakistan. Keeping that in mind, he needed to be absolutely 100% sure a breach had taken place, and he needed to have witnessed it. Apparently he did no such thing, and neither did the 25 cameras that normally pick up players picking their noses and scratching themselves.

His only evidence is the ball.

The trouble with this is that cricket balls can be influenced by an awful lot of things, and most of them are not deliberate acts by players. Even if they are guilty, if nobody saw anything they plead innocent, and the umpire looks like a goose.

Secondly, having been accused of cheating, Pakistan did the worst thing they could possibly have done. While Inzy is the captain and has ultimate responsibility, I'll bet his team management told him and the team to stay off. Otherwise he may have protested much more strongly at the time of the call.

The ICC and Pakistan are now in very difficult positions. The ICC must back their umpire all the way, and Pakistan cannot possibly admit any wrong-doing.

One side will lose badly in the short term, the other side won't come out with much credit, and cricket will lose badly in the long term.

Darrell Hair will be lucky to survive this, even if he is totally vindicated, and Pakistan cricket may suffer permanent damage. Even if they are found innocent, the mud will stick. Other countries will not invite them, and most countries won't want to go there.

Blakey is right. Five runs is a nothing penalty. Perhaps the only good thing is that the procedure will be reviewed, with a greater burden of proof required, and the penalty greatly increased.

[Jarro]

I reckon Hair will survive.

Look, the Pakis have done this before ... with supportive evidence.

As far as i'm concerned they're guilty of it and should be punished accordingly ... time for the ICC to make a really positive stand.

[McCoy]

Well Hair has gone and shot himself in the foot, offering to quit the game for US$500,000. This effectively gets Pakistan off the hook. How naive was Hair to think the ICC wouldn't release that to the press. The ICC now has their scapegoat, Inzamam will get a stern talking to and cricket will go on as if this never happened.

[Jarro]

And i thought Hair would get through this unscathed :roll:

What the hell was he thinking !!!!!!!! :-s