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Jono
12th December 2018, 11:01 AM
Having invested in quite a large sum of money on golf lessons this year and quite a lot of time in practice (given I work 55 hours a week in a busy ED), I must say I’ve been a little disappointed in the level of coaching in general.

Like the thread about the Lakes golf course and course architecture, I’m hoping a teaching pro will jump in and give us his perspective.

I have received little nuggets of information from each coach and from my home course pro, who I have regular lessons with, I am learning to play golf rather than the golf swing.

Having said that, I’ve been left to my own devices to put the pieces together.

Not one coach looked at my grip. I found out that I had a gap between my left thumb pad and the grip causing my left hand to move on the grip during the swing.

No one checked any mobility restrictions I had and figure out how that may have affected my swing. For example, I tend to stop my body rotation too early in the backswing causing my arms to become disconnected from my body. I’ve been told to put a glove under my right armpit or left armpit or both, make a bigger hip turn in the backswing and just plain “don’t swing that far back”.

Through a trainer, I found I had a big restriction in neck rotation. I could only turn my head around 45 deg. So I’ve been working on this and doing some neck stretching and mobility exercises for last few weeks. I can already see a big difference in my backswing pivot and arms are staying connected more. Tempo has naturally become more even instead to rushing the transition as my arms get disconnected.

I don’t think golf coaches need to be physical therapists but I think they should do a rudimentary mobility screen before they start teaching the swing. Some anatomical movements in golf are close to end range for most people. These include hip internal rotation (especially the left hip for right handed golfers as we follow through), thoracic rotation, cervical rotation, and right shoulder external rotation (watch Ben Hogan during transition). These at least should be looked at.

I think part of the reason that most coaches are “tips” based is because of the golfing public who don’t see the value in long term lessons and just want a quick fix. Compare this to something like playing a musical instrument. If you took up playing the guitar, you’d likely have weekly lessons until certain level has been attained and then still have regular catch up lessons afterwards. Why is golf any different?

Sorry about the long rant but I’d love to see the level of coaching stepping up a level in general.

Coldtopper
12th December 2018, 11:27 AM
Didn't know that golf is that hard! I’ll give you some advice, find a single plane swing coach and Good luck !

Jono
12th December 2018, 11:39 AM
Didn't know that golf is that hard! I’ll give you some advice, find a single plane swing coach and Good luck ! Thanks mate.If you’re talking about Jim Hardy stuff, I’ve read his book and from what I read, it wouldn’t be a good match for someone like me with restrictions in rotation.I think high level golf is very difficult.

Jono
12th December 2018, 01:10 PM
Having read it again, I think the title of this thread was a bit harsh.

It’s more a case of “wouldn’t it be better if they did it this way?”

3oneday
12th December 2018, 02:43 PM
I actually think you're looking for the pot at the end of the rainbow.

I'm being serious, maybe you should save your cash for a year and try to attend one of the US clinics with Hank Haney, Dave Pelz or someone like that? Prep them by emailing them what YOU want out of the lesson firstly and if they reply, judge if their response is what you want.

I've tried to find someone really great here in Australia too but there are no standouts, no week long golfing camps where you get one on one time and stuff like that.

I don't think what you want exists here.

Grumpy8
12th December 2018, 03:40 PM
The free golf mag given out at clubs has several ads nearly every month about coaching clinics and camps . There is also the golf university that does online and weekend camps . I subscribe to the “ pga digital golf academy “ and I find it very helpful. I go to Rohan Dummett at MGA and have done so nearly 5 yrs and have brought my cap down from 17 to 6 . I had only been a part time golfer for 30 odd years of which I hadn’t played at all in the last 14 of that . Started back 6 yrs ago , started with just quick fixes and band aids to fix things like a snap hook , would drop some shots but then drift back out ,got sick of it and asked what I could do to fix the consistency. Blunt answer was change my swing and get on plane . So at 58 yrs old I rebuilt my swing and am much more on plane . It takes time even with continual practice it can take six months to bed in a swing change . As I couldn’t commit to the amount of work it took me a year to bed the swing changes in , I broke down to 6.8 when I did . Had a (minor) hiccup with my back , when I started again I had lost a lot of my gains , with Rohan’s help I have got it back and am now on 6.3 . I fix one fault at a time , we spend a fair bit of time looking at video of my swing discussing what position I am in and where I should be , he gives me drills to do and explains what it’s going to achieve. The last fault I am fixing is a reverse pivot , I don’t go to driving ranges any more so I work on things at home or on course . My scores at the moment are all over the place and it’s taking ages to fix , but my objective is consistency and club champs next October.My advice to you is get it clear in your head what you want to achieve, find a trusted pro with results on the board , discuss things and most importantly understand what it is you are doing . Google it go on you tube get info on what it is but understand what you are trying to change .Most golfers just nod yes yes ,do the tip find it works for a while but because they don’t understand it ,after a month they go back to their bad habits. Pro’s offer quick fixes because golfers want immediate results long term changes take time and work . 100 swings a day for six months to fix a fault and ingrain the change

Webster
12th December 2018, 04:41 PM
Most coaching is a waste of time. Buy some new clubs instead.

3oneday
12th December 2018, 04:53 PM
Yep, that too :)

Webster
12th December 2018, 05:03 PM
Yep, that too :)

Be careful though - nothing worse than ending up with the golf quinella of death - getting sucked into Golf Machine lessons and buying Henry Griffits clubs!

Minor_Threat
12th December 2018, 05:04 PM
Find a swing that keeps the ball in play and concentrate on your short game..AFAIK golf pros are not really trained to identify mobility shortcomings.

pt73
12th December 2018, 05:51 PM
One of my mates sees an ex Tour pro who’s also a certified trainer who runs golf specific classes for his pupils.

He also created a book of golf specific exercises that he gave to all his pupils and tells the pupils which ones they should do.

He’s the first teaching pro I’ve seen offer such a complete range of services.

thecollective
12th December 2018, 05:59 PM
Jono: based on my own experiences I would have to agree with you on the whole....

But having met you my instinct suggests you're flooding your head with too much theory and not enough common sense / instinct

I think you need to spend some time at home, feeling the club, getting an idea of wrist angles, practising very short chips on the lawn aiming for no divots

I have been doing the above for about 3 months now and have started to get the handicap back to where it once was

Jono
12th December 2018, 07:05 PM
One of my mates sees an ex Tour pro who’s also a certified trainer who runs golf specific classes for his pupils.He also created a book of golf specific exercises that he gave to all his pupils and tells the pupils which ones they should do.He’s the first teaching pro I’ve seen offer such a complete range of services. Who’s that mate?

Jono
12th December 2018, 07:42 PM
Jono: based on my own experiences I would have to agree with you on the whole....But having met you my instinct suggests you're flooding your head with too much theory and not enough common sense / instinctI think you need to spend some time at home, feeling the club, getting an idea of wrist angles, practising very short chips on the lawn aiming for no divotsI have been doing the above for about 3 months now and have started to get the handicap back to where it once was I understand what you are saying but I’m actually not analytical when I play. I’ve been down to six in the past and I could probably get down there again without any more lessons and just working on some course management and practicing short game.But I want a more reliable swing with sound mechanics where I can then forget about all the mechanics on the course and just aim/fire.My main issue atm is the club face shutting down too quickly (ie flip). When I go on the flightscope, my club path is pretty consistent shot to shot but the face varies quite a lot.I’ve done the split hand drill, impact drills etc but in the end, if my mechanics don’t change, I’ll always tend to be inconsistent day to day.Perfect example was at the QLD champs. I played very well at Kooralbyn and hit fade after fade even on narrow fairways. 2 days later at Pac Harbour, I couldn’t hit a fairway to save my life! Some of my shots were going 100 meters left!

pt73
12th December 2018, 09:14 PM
Who’s that mate?
Ken Druce at Royal Sydney not sure if he teaches elsewhere.

Really nice guy too and has some YouTube golf fitness videos.

thecollective
13th December 2018, 07:28 AM
I understand what you are saying but I’m actually not analytical when I play. I’ve been down to six in the past and I could probably get down there again without any more lessons and just working on some course management and practicing short game.But I want a more reliable swing with sound mechanics where I can then forget about all the mechanics on the course and just aim/fire.My main issue atm is the club face shutting down too quickly (ie flip). When I go on the flightscope, my club path is pretty consistent shot to shot but the face varies quite a lot.I’ve done the split hand drill, impact drills etc but in the end, if my mechanics don’t change, I’ll always tend to be inconsistent day to day.Perfect example was at the QLD champs. I played very well at Kooralbyn and hit fade after fade even on narrow fairways. 2 days later at Pac Harbour, I couldn’t hit a fairway to save my life! Some of my shots were going 100 meters left!

Most ppl who have trouble flipping the club struggle to transition the weight off the right foot letting the arms arrive too early. I had this issue for about the last 2 years due to DVT in my left leg (left handed).

hippo10
13th December 2018, 08:56 AM
I agree with you Jono, coaches should look at the mobility of the player as a starting point. There's no one swing that works for amateurs and too often I've found proud are trying to teach a tour swing to people who just can't achieve the same positions. Having said that I have encountered some pros that do this. I think as well that when you start with a coach if you ask them to frame their lessons based on what your body is capable of they will do so.

Grumpy8
13th December 2018, 10:09 AM
It’s funny that teaching pros don’t come onto forums or if they do they don’t last long . I wonder why that is ? Could it be we know more than them ? Could it be we think they are all hopeless? Could it be we only want to find the magic bullet ? Best two bits of advice I heard , 5 cap telling a new 27 cap “ golf is about six inches “ - the distance between your ears “Golf swing keep it simple “ - straight back straight thru That was 45 yrs ago I have added one to it “ six inch putt counts the same on the score card as a 300 yard drive “

Captain Nemo
13th December 2018, 10:21 AM
I think the older generation of coaches are outdated if they aren’t using the latest technology, Trackman, Flightscope or the like.
Just my 2 cents but I’d never do a full swing lesson with someone without this gear.
The way you see things, then the ability for them to email your swing with commentary for you to go over and see and re create is the way to go IMO.

Jono
13th December 2018, 12:01 PM
It’s funny that teaching pros don’t come onto forums or if they do they don’t last long . I wonder why that is ? Could it be we know more than them ? Could it be we think they are all hopeless? Could it be we only want to find the magic bullet ? Best two bits of advice I heard , 5 cap telling a new 27 cap “ golf is about six inches “ - the distance between your ears “Golf swing keep it simple “ - straight back straight thru That was 45 yrs ago I have added one to it “ six inch putt counts the same on the score card as a 300 yard drive “I think you’ve missed my point. It’s not that I think that I know more than golf coaches. I’m questioning the way golf is taught. If someone comes to you for one single lesson, yeah sure, give them the biggest bang for their buck. Give them a tip that will counteract their slice or hook or whatever, even if you know that sooner or later, it will break down cause you haven’t addressed the real cause. But when someone comes to you wanting to invest their time and money to learn to play this game as well as they can and wants to have long term coaching with you, you should have a well thought out plan to help him achieve this. And the list of golf-“isms” you listed illustrate some of the problems with golf coaching. You can’t teach a game with simple “isms”. Eg golf is played between the ears ... yes as you play more golf, you get to appreciate this, but tell this to a guy making a big over the top move and flipping at the ball and he’ll likely give up the game thinking he doesn’t have the brain for this game or become very negative about the game. I’ll compare golf to playing a musical instrument again. You go to an instructor wanting to learn and master the instrument, he won’t tell you it’s played between the ears. He’ll assess your skills, take you through the fundamentals and give you drills to master each stage before moving onto more difficult skills.

Jono
13th December 2018, 12:04 PM
I think the older generation of coaches are outdated if they aren’t using the latest technology, Trackman, Flightscope or the like.Just my 2 cents but I’d never do a full swing lesson with someone without this gear.The way you see things, then the ability for them to email your swing with commentary for you to go over and see and re create is the way to go IMO.Agreed. I think these tools are starting to become essential. You just can’t see some things with the naked eye.

Grumpy8
13th December 2018, 01:22 PM
Jono Just trying to be helpful. Others have suggested you keep it simple. I will give you another “ism” the pursuit of the perfect swing has ruined many golfers . Ask baker finch about chasing an extra 10 metres in his game ,I ruined my game in my mid twenties by trying to be the longest driver at my club second longest wasn’t good enough . Having said that I agree that pros don’t go about things the right way a lot of the times , you are probably wanting something the regular club golfer doesn’t ask for ( a plan ) think you might have to do another “ism” kiss a lot of toads until you find your prince .
Think you are going have to ask they aren’t going to offer .
One last nugget, club champ at local club plays off +1 , went to AIS a few years ago quit after awhile swing “ruined” . All industries have good and bad instructors

Jono
13th December 2018, 02:52 PM
Jono Just trying to be helpful. Others have suggested you keep it simple. I will give you another “ism” the pursuit of the perfect swing has ruined many golfers . Ask baker finch about chasing an extra 10 metres in his game ,I ruined my game in my mid twenties by trying to be the longest driver at my club second longest wasn’t good enough . Having said that I agree that pros don’t go about things the right way a lot of the times , you are probably wanting something the regular club golfer doesn’t ask for ( a plan ) think you might have to do another “ism” kiss a lot of toads until you find your prince .Think you are going have to ask they aren’t going to offer . One last nugget, club champ at local club plays off +1 , went to AIS a few years ago quit after awhile swing “ruined” . All industries have good and bad instructors Hey man, sorry if I came across as a ungrateful know it all POS. I appreciate the tips from your experience and observations as a golfer. And I may well end up taking the KISS approach and just practice my short game. 😊

Grumpy8
13th December 2018, 10:08 PM
Hey man, sorry if I came across as a ungrateful know it all POS. I appreciate the tips from your experience and observations as a golfer. And I may well end up taking the KISS approach and just practice my short game. 😊 Nothing wrong with the pursuit of excellence but be careful with getting to technical unless that is what floats your boat . Am sure I have seen ads for Terry Price in golf mags , he was a good touring pro and should be able to do a plan ( as he would have had one ) . No idea what sort of teaching pro he is tho . My advice work on your short game and get yourself a good solid swing ( on plane - straight back straight thru) and if you have to do it yourself.Mike Weir ( hope that’s his name ) was my pro at Windaroo when I lived in Brisbane I think he is still teaching he seemed very good . Lastly Rohan Dummet is on Facebook or Twitter I believe

Jazz18
14th December 2018, 12:05 AM
I think the older generation of coaches are outdated if they aren’t using the latest technology, Trackman, Flightscope or the like.
Just my 2 cents but I’d never do a full swing lesson with someone without this gear.
The way you see things, then the ability for them to email your swing with commentary for you to go over and see and re create is the way to go IMO.


Agreed. I think these tools are starting to become essential. You just can’t see some things with the naked eye.

I agree that tech can be useful but in conjunction with "visual" cues. When I hit shots on a launch monitor indoors for instance, I can see all the numbers but because I'm not using one all day every day, I don't always know how that equates to ball flight on the course. I have to see the ball flight to know if I like what I'm doing. Everyone has a different visual "window" they want to hit with their shots so if you can't get the flight you want, it doesn't matter what the LM says, it's not going to help you.

Captain Nemo
14th December 2018, 05:08 AM
I agree that tech can be useful but in conjunction with "visual" cues. When I hit shots on a launch monitor indoors for instance, I can see all the numbers but because I'm not using one all day every day, I don't always know how that equates to ball flight on the course. I have to see the ball flight to know if I like what I'm doing. Everyone has a different visual "window" they want to hit with their shots so if you can't get the flight you want, it doesn't matter what the LM says, it's not going to help you.

Mate, I’m not talking about indoor LM and the like.
Real teaching pros, outside conditions.

Jazz18
14th December 2018, 07:30 AM
Cool yep. That's the best combo.

tim_golfer2
14th December 2018, 11:58 AM
Mate, I’m not talking about indoor LM and the like.
Real teaching pros, outside conditions.

In fact are you not standing indoors and hitting out to the outside range?
That set up at The Lakes is pretty sweet. Throw the garage doors open and away you go.
I was visiting Charles there a couple of weeks ago.

Jono
15th December 2018, 12:48 PM
After all this rant, I think I found the right coach for me. 😉

oldracer
15th December 2018, 04:10 PM
Now let him know “exactly” what you want👍

Jono
15th December 2018, 05:42 PM
Now let him know “exactly” what you want👍 I sure have. 😊

razaar
15th December 2018, 09:27 PM
Hey man, sorry if I came across as a ungrateful know it all POS. I appreciate the tips from your experience and observations as a golfer. And I may well end up taking the KISS approach and just practice my short game. 😊Jono, popular golf instruction tries to simplify a discipline that is really complex. The problem is that 90+ plus percentage of golfers have inaccurate concepts about how it should all work (influenced by popular golf instruction). It is rare to find someone who can describe the micro and macro movements of an athletic golf swing in a number of ways which will click with the golfer. So that he or she get the correct concept. Once the concept is understood, it takes a couple of years at the minimum to train the body's myofacia (muscle, facia & connective tissue) to put the concepts into practice in the one second it takes to play a full shot. It helps if you can play golf regularly with elite golfers to understand the concepts. Don't expect those same elite golfers to be able to explain what they do. Most times they have been given an athletic gift at birth.

Jono
16th December 2018, 11:01 AM
Jono, popular golf instruction tries to simplify a discipline that is really complex. The problem is that 90+ plus percentage of golfers have inaccurate concepts about how it should all work (influenced by popular golf instruction). It is rare to find someone who can describe the micro and macro movements of an athletic golf swing in a number of ways which will click with the golfer. So that he or she get the correct concept. Once the concept is understood, it takes a couple of years at the minimum to train the body's myofacia (muscle, facia & connective tissue) to put the concepts into practice in the one second it takes to play a full shot. It helps if you can play golf regularly with elite golfers to understand the concepts. Don't expect those same elite golfers to be able to explain what they do. Most times they have been given an athletic gift at birth. Thanks Ray.Lot of the terms that you use I’ve heard from Kelvin Miyahira. I’ve read all his articles and had lessons with him whilst I was in Hawaii. He was the most observant man I’ve met in the field of golf swing analysis. He didn’t get bogged down by things like The Golfing Machine and traditional teaching and just described what he saw in top golfers. Unfortunately he has had a stroke and I haven’t heard from him recently.What I need now is a coach who can coach me in golf, not just the golf swing. In terms of the swing, I hit it far enough. Ive now eliminated the left side but sometimes get a blocky fade by holding it off. I want to be able to release it full and not go left.

razaar
16th December 2018, 01:08 PM
Sorry to learn about Kelvin, Jono. His articles were a great help to me in understanding how elite players swing. That and playing with a couple of the elites regularly, allowed me to see his concepts in action.
Not sure I follow your comments about the release. Elite golfers normal release occurs past contact where the right wrist unloads following internal rotation of the right shoulder. This is only possible if the right shoulder remains externally rotated into impact with excellent rotation of the spine/pelvic unit without moving the left shoulder forward of it's address position. In practice it is a weak feeling, where the club shaft unloads by itself with the player resisting with the arms and hands.

oldracer
16th December 2018, 01:21 PM
Sorry to learn about Kelvin, Jono. His articles were a great help to me in understanding how elite players swing. That and playing with a couple of the elites regularly, allowed me to see his concepts in action. Not sure I follow your comments about the release. Elite golfers normal release occurs past contact where the right wrist unloads following internal rotation of the right shoulder. This is only possible if the right shoulder remains externally rotated into impact with excellent rotation of the spine/pelvic unit without moving the left shoulder forward of it's address position. In practice it is a weak feeling, where the club shaft unloads by itself with the player resisting with the arms and hands.😳😳😳😱😱😱

Jazz18
16th December 2018, 01:50 PM
[emoji15][emoji15][emoji15][emoji33][emoji33][emoji33]+1 I don't get it either.

Hit the ball, chase it, hit it again! [emoji16]

Jono
16th December 2018, 03:18 PM
Sorry to learn about Kelvin, Jono. His articles were a great help to me in understanding how elite players swing. That and playing with a couple of the elites regularly, allowed me to see his concepts in action. Not sure I follow your comments about the release. Elite golfers normal release occurs past contact where the right wrist unloads following internal rotation of the right shoulder. This is only possible if the right shoulder remains externally rotated into impact with excellent rotation of the spine/pelvic unit without moving the left shoulder forward of it's address position. In practice it is a weak feeling, where the club shaft unloads by itself with the player resisting with the arms and hands. It’s funny you mention the right shoulder external rotation. The right shoulder external rotation/horizontal adduction with right scap retraction was one of the moves I practiced diligently when I was working with Kelvin. I have very limited external rotation at the shoulders (especially after the shoulder reconstruction). Trying to take it to end range external rotation caused tension and rebound internal rotation as a way for my body to preserve itself. I try to externally rotate as much as my body will let me without causing tension. As to what I meant by release, I want a release pattern where from the top of the swing, I can just let the club go without any fear of a hook. I don’t need to think about anything then. My body just reacts and does what it needs to. I’m close but not quite there yet.

razaar
16th December 2018, 04:46 PM
It’s funny you mention the right shoulder external rotation. The right shoulder external rotation/horizontal adduction with right scap retraction was one of the moves I practiced diligently when I was working with Kelvin. I have very limited external rotation at the shoulders (especially after the shoulder reconstruction). Trying to take it to end range external rotation caused tension and rebound internal rotation as a way for my body to preserve itself. I try to externally rotate as much as my body will let me without causing tension. As to what I meant by release, I want a release pattern where from the top of the swing, I can just let the club go without any fear of a hook. I don’t need to think about anything then. My body just reacts and does what it needs to. I’m close but not quite there yet. Keep working on the RS external rotation. I have Ramsay posture belt 2XU and work a range of exercises focusing on external rotation. Keeping the elbow inside the right hip throughout the backswing is the goal to getting in the correct position at he top. From here both forearms rotate clockwise with the spine fully twisted in a reverse C and hold this arm/hand position into impact. This is a spine driven golf swing so the spine and pelvis supply the power through rotation. Jono most of the body rotation needs to occur before impact, so it needs to be athletic.You actually had lesson with Kelvin. That is gold!

BUSHY
16th December 2018, 05:23 PM
If there are coaches in Australia that are as qualified as top US coaches they certainly aren’t doing much of a job of promoting it.

Grumpy8
16th December 2018, 05:33 PM
+1 I don't get it either.Hit the ball, chase it, hit it again! [emoji16] Is way over my head as well , all I do is to start my swing by turning/rotating my left shoulder away from the ball , **** my wrists at the top , then turn back . Hit a few drives bout 230/ 240 on soft fairways on Saturday, that will do this old bloke

Jono
16th December 2018, 05:38 PM
Keep working on the RS external rotation. I have Ramsay posture belt 2XU and work a range of exercises focusing on external rotation. Keeping the elbow inside the right hip throughout the backswing is the goal to getting in the correct position at he top. From here both forearms rotate clockwise with the spine fully twisted in a reverse C and hold this arm/hand position into impact. This is a spine driven golf swing so the spine and pelvis supply the power through rotation. Jono most of the body rotation needs to occur before impact, so it needs to be athletic.You actually had lesson with Kelvin. That is gold! I actually had 2 lessons with him over two days and had dinner with him and his wife talking about golf and swing theories. Totally geeky stuff. 😂That was back in 2013. He was on the verge of claiming his status in the golf coaching world but unfortunately had the stroke.You can see some of his work being taught now by other coaches ... Lucas Wald is one although he never gives Kelvin credit. Brandel Chamblee sometimes hashes Kelvin’s stuff I don’t think he truely understands it.I first got in touch with Kelvin in 2004. He used to sell training aids called “speedchain” which I bought. I used to swing the driver around 90 mph and gradually with his training theories peaked at 120mph on the Trackman. He then went onto looking at the technique more especially that of the longer hitters like DJ and Bubba. Cameron Champ would have been a poster boy for his spine engine swing.

Jono
16th December 2018, 06:02 PM
If there are coaches in Australia that are as qualified as top US coaches they certainly aren’t doing much of a job of promoting it. I’ve seen Richard Woodhouse who probably promotes himself as well as any other coach in Oz.I’ve had a couple of lessons with Ray Hawkins at Precision Golf and really like his teaching philosophy and content. He’s going to give me a practice plan and even though he is 2+ hours drive away from me, I’m going to catch up with him at least once a month.

Jono
16th December 2018, 06:13 PM
Is way over my head as well , all I do is to start my swing by turning/rotating my left shoulder away from the ball , **** my wrists at the top , then turn back . Hit a few drives bout 230/ 240 on soft fairways on Saturday, that will do this old blokeIf you can repeat it and you got the speed you need/want, it’s better not to think about these things ... 😉

sms316
16th December 2018, 06:45 PM
Just swing on plane. If you’re not doing that then you’ve got no chance.

The swing is simple but it is complicated by “swing gurus” who need to find their niche. If you’re doing something wrong, you need to do something else wrong to counteract it.

Youre looking for something that isn’t there.

razaar
16th December 2018, 06:46 PM
I actually had 2 lessons with him over two days and had dinner with him and his wife talking about golf and swing theories. Totally geeky stuff. 😂That was back in 2013. He was on the verge of claiming his status in the golf coaching world but unfortunately had the stroke.You can see some of his work being taught now by other coaches ... Lucas Wald is one although he never gives Kelvin credit. Brandel Chamblee sometimes hashes Kelvin’s stuff I don’t think he truely understands it.I first got in touch with Kelvin in 2004. He used to sell training aids called “speedchain” which I bought. I used to swing the driver around 90 mph and gradually with his training theories peaked at 120mph on the Trackman. He then went onto looking at the technique more especially that of the longer hitters like DJ and Bubba. Cameron Champ would have been a poster boy for his spine engine swing. If I was looking for a swing coach my pick would be somebody who based their swing concepts on what the old teachers taught before golf became an industry. Teachers of the Bobby Jones's era including Abe Mitchell. Most of golf's important articulation of the golf swing (including Kelvin's articles) that I have read, have been described by Jones and Mitchell in their publications. Jones on a a flatter swing action with Mitchell favouring an upright swing. Having read both, I don't think that today's technique is much different to the elite players of 80 years ago. The difference IMO is in the athletism of today's elites.

Jono
16th December 2018, 06:54 PM
Just swing on plane. If you’re not doing that then you’ve got no chance.The swing is simple but it is complicated by “swing gurus” who need to find their niche. If you’re doing something wrong, you need to do something else wrong to counteract it.Youre looking for something that isn’t there. Where did you pop up from? 😂So if I’m doing something wrong, I should do something else wrong to counteract it ... hmmm ... that sounds like bandaid fix. You slice so close your stance and swing inside out. You hook so open your stance and swing outside in. That kind of advice got me shooting net 66 at Kooralbyn and nearly raising my bat at Pac Harbour two days later. Too unreliable and to be honest with you, it’s what a lot of golf teachers do in Australia. Don’t have the background knowledge and blames the student for making it too complicated.Any human movement is “simple” when you are proficient at it, be it martial arts, playing an instrument or golf.Having said all this, I don’t really feel I have to know the theory. I’m prepared to invest my money and time, I just need a coach to help me get to where I want.

sms316
16th December 2018, 06:57 PM
I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying fix the first error rather than making another one to counter it. Swing the ****ing thing properly instead of looking for voodoo. I swear half the time it’s about calibrating the mind to feel what the body is actually doing.

Jono
16th December 2018, 07:05 PM
I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying fix the first error rather than making another one to counter it. Swing the ****ing thing properly instead of looking for voodoo. I swear half the time it’s about calibrating the mind to feel what the body is actually doing. Mate that’s what I’m trying to do. I just want someone to supervise the process in a systematic manner. Game of golf may come more naturally to someone like yourself than me. Simplifying something that is not simple, and golf swing is not simple because if it was, everyone would be swinging it well, doesn’t make the process simpler.It’s pretty simple. Here’s my money. I’m willing to put in the time. I’m willing to get back to fundamentals and take one step back to take two forward. Help me get to where I want to go. Is that so hard to understand?

Grumpy8
16th December 2018, 07:25 PM
Just swing on plane. If you’re not doing that then you’ve got no chance.The swing is simple but it is complicated by “swing gurus” who need to find their niche. If you’re doing something wrong, you need to do something else wrong to counteract it.Youre looking for something that isn’t there.Coach I go to is big on being on plane . ( which I am not quite). Also reckons I subconsciously know I am in wrong position on way down and make moves to correct ( which is two wrongs to make a right )doesn’t always work . We just work on removing faults and staying in correct position to swing on plane .

Johnny Canuck
16th December 2018, 08:51 PM
If you want to work on flexibility, find yourself a TPI certified physio.

I went to one a few months ago, it was quite good.

I wouldn’t let him touch my swing, but it showed me what exercises i needed to do to be able to get into the correct position for a solid swing.

I am no lesson guru; I average about 2 every 3 years, but I go and see one of the best in Aus. He works with what I bring to the table and doesn’t work on my flexibility, etc.

You coach someone where they are, not where they should be.

Yossarian
16th December 2018, 10:23 PM
Make golf coaching great again.

PeteyD
17th December 2018, 04:44 AM
I like Kelvin's stuff. The articles and videos and great. Such a pity with the stroke.

I always go back to The Little Red book and see how it relates to what Kelvin is saying (or whatever else I am looking at). I guess Harvey as old school like the guys Ray is talking about.

razaar
17th December 2018, 08:00 AM
I like Kelvin's stuff. The articles and videos and great. Such a pity with the stroke. I always go back to The Little Red book and see how it relates to what Kelvin is saying (or whatever else I am looking at). I guess Harvey as old school like the guys Ray is talking about. Pete I have quite an extensive library on golf some of which I inherited from my father in law who was a fanatic golfer. Kelvin's articles gave me an entirely different perspective on the old writers words about the game. It is funny how easily we can misinterpret the written words to fit our established concepts on what constitutes a golf swing. Looking back, I think I have some dislectic traits given how off the track I was on the fundamentals. Like many golfers I put my faith on the BS written by modern teachers such as Leadbetter and journalists using the name of champions of the day (who were cashing in on their fame). Sadly their words were difficult to refute as they described what we could see on video and on stills. What they left out was the hidden movements we can't see (micro movements) that cause the movements we see (macro movements). Kelvin was the first (to my knowledge) to give an in-depth analysis on how this works. Which is all about athletics and how the body is designed to work. His words on swing planeology are interesting. What does 'on plane' really mean? Until Hogan mentioned swing plane in "Five Lessons..." the topic was never mentioned in golf instruction books. Hogan's 'on plane' is different to Leadbetter's definition. Homer's was different to both - we only have to look at You-tube to find other variations. The fact is the arms swing on a plane and the shaft swings on a plane. Kelvin has showed us that only a small percentage of tour pros own an on plane swing by any definition.

Smilesy
18th December 2018, 02:33 PM
I've got a fairly similar view on the current state of coaching (it’s not great). I've recently heard a few podcast episodes (UK and US based) where they talk about this, and how most coaching doesn’t really doesn't help people as much as it should (if at all).


IMO if you're goal as a coach is to get your students to shoot the lowest scores they can (I’d hope it is, though I’m sure some don’t really care), the first session you have with them should be a playing lesson. I can't see how a coach can get a decent impression on a student’s game without seeing it on the course. Something brought up in the podcasts was that a student’s impression of their game and where they need to improve to lower their scores is generally not what they actually need. After the playing lesson they should have a quick chat to work out what the student’s goals are, and work out a program to get from their current state to their goals. I agree that coaches should have at least a rudimentary understanding on the biomechanics of the swing, and what physical limitations are likely to lead to what swing “faults”.

I’ve recently been getting lessons and had four before having a playing lesson with the coach. The playing lesson has totally changed the approach we are taking, I’m not saying the first 4 lessons were a waste but they certainly weren’t as effective as they should have been. My range swing is different to my course swing, and I’m sure I’m not the only person like that, so fixing your range issues may not have a big impact on what you do on the course. For me my alignment on the course was way right of the target which just didn’t show up on the range where you have loads of alignment aids.

Another bug bare I have with most coaches I’ve seen is that you have a 30 or 60 minute window, and soon you’re done the next student comes in. I feel the coach should be taking a few notes after a lesson, then before he sees the student again he should have a quick review of the previous session’s notes. I hate having to tell the coach what we worked on last time for the first 10 minutes, it feels like we’re starting again every time. It would only take a couple of minutes, and it would make a big difference to feeling like they care, and I would think it would help get improvements quicker if the coach actually knows when you’ve been working on. I understand from an economic view, just getting people through may get you the most money now, but I can’t see it getting the coach long term repeat clients.

That ended up being much more of a rant than I intended. It really does get under my skin.

dee cee
18th December 2018, 02:50 PM
What names have we got for coaches to see Jono and Canuck?

I too have not found a coach in Oz that understands the swing or teaches what I want.

I’ve gone online to a US coach now who knows his stuff.
I just feel I’d get way more out of lessons in person though. Just no one to go to that I know of in Oz.

Jono
18th December 2018, 03:01 PM
Smilesy, that’s exactly where I was going. It had nothing to do with making the swing more complicated.

A bit of thought, organisation, and preparation from the coach will go a long way to win the confidence of his pupil. And every other teaching profession has to keep up with the latest research and recommendations. Same should be the case with golf coaches.

Jono
18th December 2018, 03:21 PM
What names have we got for coaches to see Jono and Canuck?I too have not found a coach in Oz that understands the swing or teaches what I want. I’ve gone online to a US coach now who knows his stuff. I just feel I’d get way more out of lessons in person though. Just no one to go to that I know of in Oz. I’ve started seeing Ray Hawkins at Precision Golf at Chatswood. So far so good.I’ve also found a guy who specialises in golf fitness in Wollongong so i’ll Start seeing him in the new year.

Johnny Canuck
18th December 2018, 06:26 PM
What names have we got for coaches to see Jono and Canuck?

I too have not found a coach in Oz that understands the swing or teaches what I want.

I’ve gone online to a US coach now who knows his stuff.
I just feel I’d get way more out of lessons in person though. Just no one to go to that I know of in Oz.

I see Craig Bishop in WA

dee cee
18th December 2018, 11:20 PM
Thanks men. WA is a bit far 😆 but Sydney doable!

Halfer5
31st December 2018, 02:45 PM
I decided last year that I wasn't enjoying golf & wanted to get a bit better so I tried a few driving range pros who, for various reasons, I didn't really click with. I started working with Ray Hawkins @PrecisionGolf with 1 lesson 18 months ago then broke my arm which derailed things a bit. I have had about half a dozen lessons this year and I've found him great to work with, he shows my faults on the video, explains/draws up what I need to do (lines on the video) & gives me drills to embed the changes & will sort me out at the indoor range if I pop in & things aren't quite clicking.

In terms of changes he's helped me to sort out my reverse pivot out-to-in swing to be consistently hitting an in-to-out draw which got me from playing from between 12-16 over socially with a mulligan a round to a GA handicap of 6. Over the last 2 months we've been working on shortening my swing to get better aligned to plane & improve strike consistency, not quite there yet but have seen better scores & handicap has fallen to 4. I've also refreshed my clubs (with Ray's help) which has helped but the majority of the improvements have been through his coaching & my practice.

I think the main thing is to find a coach who you get on with, one who you can connect with and who you believe in, trust is big as you need to trust your coach if you have to make large changes to get better, I had some horrific rounds mid swing change but believed in the method/process to get better so stuck it out. I would highly recommend anyone to give Ray a shot.

Jono
31st December 2018, 04:42 PM
I decided last year that I wasn't enjoying golf & wanted to get a bit better so I tried a few driving range pros who, for various reasons, I didn't really click with. I started working with Ray Hawkins @PrecisionGolf with 1 lesson 18 months ago then broke my arm which derailed things a bit. I have had about half a dozen lessons this year and I've found him great to work with, he shows my faults on the video, explains/draws up what I need to do (lines on the video) & gives me drills to embed the changes & will sort me out at the indoor range if I pop in & things aren't quite clicking. In terms of changes he's helped me to sort out my reverse pivot out-to-in swing to be consistently hitting an in-to-out draw which got me from playing from between 12-16 over socially with a mulligan a round to a GA handicap of 6. Over the last 2 months we've been working on shortening my swing to get better aligned to plane & improve strike consistency, not quite there yet but have seen better scores & handicap has fallen to 4. I've also refreshed my clubs (with Ray's help) which has helped but the majority of the improvements have been through his coaching & my practice.I think the main thing is to find a coach who you get on with, one who you can connect with and who you believe in, trust is big as you need to trust your coach if you have to make large changes to get better, I had some horrific rounds mid swing change but believed in the method/process to get better so stuck it out. I would highly recommend anyone to give Ray a shot. That’s fantastic progress mate. 👍Yeah Ray is fantastic. He’s really busy but still seems passionate about teaching.

Halfer5
31st December 2018, 06:15 PM
Thanks mate, I was a good junior player with, in hindsight, a terrible swing that has held me back for decades. I've also had long periods of falling out of love with the game which hasn't helped things. Unfortunately it took me 26 years to seek out lessons/meet Ray which has fast tracked me back to where I was punching above my weight many years ago with the swing now to beat my PB. I'd say that finding the right coach & getting my swing fixed has put me 5 shots better off that I thought I'd be this year.

Ray is super busy but always makes time & passionate describes his teaching attitude well as he is keen to taj golf & hear what I'm up to do he can help me to get better. Hopefully you also get some good results & have a cracking 2019.

Hatchman
2nd January 2019, 11:47 PM
Make golf coaching great again.

Again?
When was it ever great in this country?

thecollective
3rd January 2019, 08:39 AM
In terms of elite coaching the only place I have been satisfied with is the MGA in Melbourne

I invested in a top coach in SA who did more harm than good to my golf swing, took me 2 years to shake out of it

Now I get ad-hoc lessons from my pro shop manager Phil, who is an ex. SA Amateur Classic winner. charges $150 for 5 x 30 minute lessons and doesn't even watch the clock. He was a major reason for me curing the yips showing me an old conventional grip that removes the fingers from the front handle

Grumpy8
3rd January 2019, 12:31 PM
In terms of elite coaching the only place I have been satisfied with is the MGA in MelbourneI invested in a top coach in SA who did more harm than good to my golf swing, took me 2 years to shake out of itNow I get ad-hoc lessons from my pro shop manager Phil, who is an ex. SA Amateur Classic winner. charges $150 for 5 x 30 minute lessons and doesn't even watch the clock. He was a major reason for me curing the yips showing me an old conventional grip that removes the fingers from the front handleI go to Rohan Dummett at MGA , cured my snap hook and rebuilt my swing have gone from 17 to 6 .

thecollective
3rd January 2019, 12:44 PM
I go to Rohan Dummett at MGA , cured my snap hook and rebuilt my swing have gone from 17 to 6 .

I actually had a lot of success with Michelle, I think she is awesome

Adam is also very good, but pricey

Grumpy8
3rd January 2019, 12:53 PM
I actually had a lot of success with Michelle, I think she is awesomeAdam is also very good, but priceyOnly ever been to Rohan , heard him on sen1116 talking about snap hooks ( hadn’t played for 14 yrs because of them ) tried the tips in the back yard seemed to be right , played 9 holes at mirage in port douglas when on holidays hit them ok , started playing again and started going to Rohan a few months later. Kristie at keysborough seems to be really good both in coaching price and personality

Yossarian
3rd January 2019, 03:57 PM
Again?When was it ever great in this country? I'll make it great and i'll make the coaches pay for it.

Jono
3rd January 2019, 04:30 PM
In terms of elite coaching the only place I have been satisfied with is the MGA in MelbourneI invested in a top coach in SA who did more harm than good to my golf swing, took me 2 years to shake out of itNow I get ad-hoc lessons from my pro shop manager Phil, who is an ex. SA Amateur Classic winner. charges $150 for 5 x 30 minute lessons and doesn't even watch the clock. He was a major reason for me curing the yips showing me an old conventional grip that removes the fingers from the front handle I think the very fact that a top coach had harmed your swing shows that there is a lot of room for improvement in the coaching industry as a whole. I’m beginning to realise that it’s up to me to learn what I can from each coach and piece my game together. I don’t think any one coach will get me to where I want to go. I’m going to have ongoing lessons/playing lessons with the young pro at our club but not as frequently as I did in 2018. I’m also going to catch up with Ray at Precision Golf time to time and I’ll be seeking out someone for the mobility/fitness side of things.

scratchoz
3rd January 2019, 05:06 PM
I can't speak for anyone else but my experience this year is totally different to what you have described Jono.

I had lost the edge that I once had and was not prepared to accept that I was just part of getting older.

I approached the four teaching pro's at my club and discussed what I was hoping to achieve with them after having played a competition round with all of them individually in the 4-6 weeks prior. After this I was able to make a choice that best worked for me and we began the journey together. Six months don the track, 6 lessons later and plenty of video feedback from swings I had made on course my GA has dropped by over 4 shots to 3.1 and the key numbers that I had been tracking have all improved. My goal is to get back to somewhere between 0 and 0.5 by the middle of this year and I am 100% comfortable with the coach/mentor/advisor that I have picked to work with and their ability to get me there. I also accept that more than 75% of the work is on me to do the practice, work on the drills and think right on the course.

Good luck to everyone in their search to find the right coach for you and make 2019 the year!!!

Ferrins
7th January 2019, 08:33 AM
In terms of elite coaching the only place I have been satisfied with is the MGA in Melbourne

I invested in a top coach in SA who did more harm than good to my golf swing, took me 2 years to shake out of it

Now I get ad-hoc lessons from my pro shop manager Phil, who is an ex. SA Amateur Classic winner. charges $150 for 5 x 30 minute lessons and doesn't even watch the clock. He was a major reason for me curing the yips showing me an old conventional grip that removes the fingers from the front handle

Was this yips cured before you missed that 6 inch putt at Brookwater?😏

thecollective
7th January 2019, 09:08 AM
Was this yips cured before you missed that 6 inch putt at Brookwater?

Was a work in progress at that point. I didn't putt well that day

In all fairness that putt was a real Scott Hoch, had a lot of break and I was complacent about it, was all me though nothing else

Ferrins
3rd February 2019, 10:11 AM
After all this rant, I think I found the right coach for me. 😉

Nah, this is the coach you seek!😀

Minor_Threat
3rd February 2019, 01:41 PM
Nah, this is the coach you seek!😀That's bloody hilarious 😂

Ferrins
3rd February 2019, 02:09 PM
He would give the shirt off his own back.

Hatchman
4th February 2019, 12:52 PM
Was there more in add about stealing your clubs after and hocking them on Gumtree to pay for Meth????

Srix965
22nd March 2019, 05:17 PM
I've never had lessons from a pro... Don't intend to either. Most of my family are low handicap golfers and all of them only concentrate on a few basic things so I sort of follow those couple things. Even pros have there swings changed a fair bit due to different coaches or injuries whatever. My swing is no where near perfect, but I can repeat it and work it to shape my shots. I know this advise doesn't help much but rather than worry about a bunch of things I'd say work on bigger flaws and just aim for concistency

bongoey
2nd April 2019, 05:24 PM
Jono how have you got on with your coach? Would be interested to hear your progress.

I've had a couple of lessons from Michael Sund at Yarra Bend; hcp has dropped and he's a good bloke too! I've heard good things about the other coaches down there as well.

Jono
3rd April 2019, 08:30 PM
.

Jono
3rd April 2019, 08:32 PM
I’m seeing two coaches atm.

1) club teaching pro for playing lessons followed by a supervised practice session. I do this about once every 4-8 weeks. He’s really helped me focus more on playing golf on the course rather than the golf swing, particularly choice of shots around the greens.

2) Ray Hawkins at Precision golf. He’s got wealth of experience and has the tools as well (flightscope, my swing catalyst and pressure sensors). He’s helped me with technique and helped me develop a more consistent swing.

GA is 7.0 atm but I feel like I can go lower. I’m certainly enjoying playing more than I used to.

BUSHY
5th April 2019, 09:15 AM
I just got an email from Gankas Golf. His new platform is close to being released and appears to be a monthly/annual subscription type service with the traditional tiers of Bronze, Silver, Gold.

If you check out the link below it shows a community, an app for tracking your stats and the basic outline of the subscription tiers.

I’ve been waiting for this so keen to find out more.

https://georgegankas.golf

Jono
8th April 2019, 12:47 PM
I just got an email from Gankas Golf. His new platform is close to being released and appears to be a monthly/annual subscription type service with the traditional tiers of Bronze, Silver, Gold. If you check out the link below it shows a community, an app for tracking your stats and the basic outline of the subscription tiers. I’ve been waiting for this so keen to find out more. https://georgegankas.golf I had a quick look. Seems like a “DIY” type deal rather than getting any online lessons from George.

BUSHY
8th April 2019, 01:23 PM
I had a quick look. Seems like a “DIY” type deal rather than getting any online lessons from George.

He offers online lessons already and the link is at the bottom of the page, although he has a bit of a waiting list I think.

I’m keen to see how they’re priced, his lessons are $200USD.

I guess from what I’ve seen online and watching his videos if you’re looking for a ‘quick fix’ (which I know you aren’t) this isn’t the way to do it. What he says makes a lot of sense to me and I’ve used it to good effect.

Some info below.

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1730890/george-gankas-online-lessons

Toolish
10th April 2019, 07:44 PM
I’m seeing two coaches atm.

1) club teaching pro for playing lessons followed by a supervised practice session. I do this about once every 4-8 weeks. He’s really helped me focus more on playing golf on the course rather than the golf swing, particularly choice of shots around the greens.

2) Ray Hawkins at Precision golf. He’s got wealth of experience and has the tools as well (flightscope, my swing catalyst and pressure sensors). He’s helped me with technique and helped me develop a more consistent swing.

GA is 7.0 atm but I feel like I can go lower. I’m certainly enjoying playing more than I used to.

Jono, are your two coaches communicating with each other? Cant imagine anything worse than two coaches going in opposing directions.

I have an acquaintance who is a pro, he gets frustrated from the other side, most people want a quick and easy fix and won't invest long term in the progress.

Personally I prefer to work on my own thing with occasional input from a local pro. There are no local pros that I trust with my game. Have looked online at lessons but at the moment I think I know my next step, once that is done (probably 6 months away) I may invest online to work out next steps.

That said the Gankas thing intrigues me, I steepen the shaft in the downswing and swing nearly the opposite of what he seems to prefer and would like a bit of that in my game.

BayBum
11th April 2019, 11:33 AM
I'm a 747 man myself but I do love to felt the elbow fly when I really need to nut one.

serrz
18th May 2019, 12:20 PM
Are there any coaches in Sydney / Oz that teach what Gankas teaches?

Captain Nemo
18th May 2019, 12:37 PM
Are there any coaches in Sydney / Oz that teach what Gankas teaches?

Doubt it Dave, but I’m sure a few follow him on insta etc....

serrz
18th May 2019, 12:52 PM
Doubt it Dave, but I’m sure a few follow him on insta etc....

Mate, gripped down today and it definitely helped! 5 birds (offset by 3 wipes). Need a Gankas coach to get some more distance!

Captain Nemo
18th May 2019, 01:11 PM
Mate, gripped down today and it definitely helped! 5 birds (offset by 3 wipes). Need a Gankas coach to get some more distance!

:wink:

Jono
4th October 2019, 10:22 AM
Just a quick update ...

I had to sit down and rethink about what I was trying to achieve with my golf after what was in my mind a disappointing club champs in May.

I was so score focused that the game was no longer enjoyable. 4 consecutive rounds of stroke play pretty much broke me mentally.

When I thought about what made golf fun (apart from the social side), it wasn’t the score. The case of “its not how, it’s how many” is not why I got hooked on this game. I want to improve my ability to hit shots, be it a long straight drive, crisply hit iron shot, a spinning chip shot or a putt that rolls true where I aimed.

I have changed coaches and my ball striking has improved a lot. I’m not focusing on the score at all on the course and the game is starting to become fun again. I’m swinging more freely and stopped doing band aid moves to stop hooking it or whatever. I think the scores will eventually follow.

I’ve been carrying a half set bag sometimes and full set other times. Can’t wait for daylight saving and to start getting some twilight 9 holes in with 5-6 clubs ... 😊

JoeS
4th October 2019, 06:54 PM
Just a quick update ...

I had to sit down and rethink about what I was trying to achieve with my golf after what was in my mind a disappointing club champs in May.

I was so score focused that the game was no longer enjoyable. 4 consecutive rounds of stroke play pretty much broke me mentally.

When I thought about what made golf fun (apart from the social side), it wasn’t the score. The case of “its not how, it’s how many” is not why I got hooked on this game. I want to improve my ability to hit shots, be it a long straight drive, crisply hit iron shot, a spinning chip shot or a putt that rolls true where I aimed.

I have changed coaches and my ball striking has improved a lot. I’m not focusing on the score at all on the course and the game is starting to become fun again. I’m swinging more freely and stopped doing band aid moves to stop hooking it or whatever. I think the scores will eventually follow.

I’ve been carrying a half set bag sometimes and full set other times. Can’t wait for daylight saving and to start getting some twilight 9 holes in with 5-6 clubs ... [emoji4]Good to hear your back on the right path,nothing more frustrating than golf.I think that the majority of golfers playing club champs have a vision of shooting low rounds and being in contention,bit the reality is only a very few from each club realise the dream.I was so focused on getting better that nothing happened.I didn't do anything that made a difference,and that lead to frustration.Eventually ball striking went south,pennants became a chore and I lost the competitive spirit.So then I jist went out and played golf,dont worry about the scores,just enjoy the banter in the group and the 19th.Still nothing changed much in regards to scoring,but I was starting to enjoy it again.Got a short game lesson and tips a month ago,I had now found something I wanted to improve.So now I am enjoying golf as a social event rather than worrying about the scoring,with a focus on improving something in the game

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