Ball position for driver

[Stuart]

I have been playing around with an el cheapo launch monitor (Sureshot) that just measures swing and ball speed. My swing speed is normally around 100-105 mph, but I was trying a few different things in the nets just to see how various swing changes could affect my swing speed. What I found interesting was that if I put the ball way forward in my stance (i.e. level with my left big toe), I actually increased my swing speed by about 3-4mph and ball speed by about 6-7mph. I normally play the ball at least two inches further back in the stance. My feeling (and feelings are always dangerous) was that I was managing to stay behind the ball better at impact with the ball that far forward, and that this was greatly helping the quality of strike.

I tried it on course this afternoon, and I certainly hit the ball further than normal. It was going much higher than usual (and I already hit a fairly high ball) and it easily cleared the fairway trees and consistently finished about 20 metres further into the left scrub than normal (most straight pulls, and occasional pull hook).

I assume (and this is probably wrong of course) that the higher and WAY left ball flight is due to hitting more 'up' on the ball and also because of the change of impact point on the swing path. As soon as I moved the ball back in my stance, the flight straightened back out, but equally I feel that I lost that additional bit of distance. Is this the trade-off that I just need to accept?

[Captain Nemo]

Have you ever had a lesson?

[Johnny Canuck]

I have been playing around with an el cheapo launch monitor (Sureshot) that just measures swing and ball speed. My swing speed is normally around 100-105 mph, but I was trying a few different things in the nets just to see how various swing changes could affect my swing speed. What I found interesting was that if I put the ball way forward in my stance (i.e. level with my left big toe), I actually increased my swing speed by about 3-4mph and ball speed by about 6-7mph. I normally play the ball at least two inches further back in the stance. My feeling (and feelings are always dangerous) was that I was managing to stay behind the ball better at impact with the ball that far forward, and that this was greatly helping the quality of strike.

I tried it on course this afternoon, and I certainly hit the ball further than normal. It was going much higher than usual (and I already hit a fairly high ball) and it easily cleared the fairway trees and consistently finished about 20 metres further into the left scrub than normal (most straight pulls, and occasional pull hook).

I assume (and this is probably wrong of course) that the higher and WAY left ball flight is due to hitting more 'up' on the ball and also because of the change of impact point on the swing path. As soon as I moved the ball back in my stance, the flight straightened back out, but equally I feel that I lost that additional bit of distance. Is this the trade-off that I just need to accept?

I had a lesson a while back from one of the top guys out here.

He got me playing my driver with the ball well in front of my front foot in an effort to get me to hit up on the ball.

When I had it off my left instep, I was attacking between -5&-7° and losing a shitload of distance.

Practice hitting with the ball well in front, but make sure you extend long through the ball to compensate (as you properly should). Eventually, you can start to ease it back as you develop a proper swing path.

I gained back about 20-25m with my driver overnight.

[Captain Nemo]

Jump on YouTube and check side on vision of the top pros and see where their ball position is...

[Johnny Canuck]

Jump on YouTube and check side on vision of the top pros and see where their ball position is...

It's not as simple as that. I had perfect position, but was still hitting down with the driver.

You need to train yourself to hit up on the ball with a driver.

If you throw it way out front, you have no choice but to stay behind the ball at impact.

[LoveGolf2012]

It's not as simple as that. I had perfect position, but was still hitting down with the driver.

You need to train yourself to hit up on the ball with a driver.

If you throw it way out front, you have no choice but to stay behind the ball at impact.

So who judges if it's 'Perfect Position' ?

You,your coach?

[Johnny Canuck]

So who judges if it's 'Perfect Position' ?

You,your coach?

I was referring to the old standard, on the inside of the left foot, which has generally considered the proper placement for a driver.

Nemo said to check YouTube, at which point you'd find most guys playing their driver at that position.

[Johnny Canuck]

In reading the first post again, it sounds like he's got it there. Playing it back, as he was, would have lead to him hitting down on it, generating too much spin.

[LoveGolf2012]

I was referring to the old standard, on the inside of the left foot, which has generally considered the proper placement for a driver.

Nemo said to check YouTube, at which point you'd find most guys playing their driver at that position.

Golf is so individualistic, it's a tough one even to answer, as we both know!I hate when I see anyone copying another, no matter the player/s, I personally think that leads to more problems than ever!

[Johnny Canuck]

Golf is so individualistic, it's a tough one even to answer, as we both know!I hate when I see anyone copying another, no matter the player/s, I personally think that leads to more problems than ever!

I agree to a point, but what he has done makes perfect sense. He's moved the ball forward and has gained distance.

I'm not telling him to do anything different, only a drill to continue on with what he has already done. Taking it to the extreme in practice will help teach the necessary movements for a good swing path and stop him hitting it left, which is by product of him moving it forward, but not adjusting his swing path accordingly.

[LoveGolf2012]

I agree to a point, but what he has done makes perfect sense. He's moved the ball forward and has gained distance.

I'm not telling him to do anything different, only a drill to continue on with what he has already done. Taking it to the extreme in practice will help teach the necessary movements for a good swing path and stop him hitting it left, which is by product of him moving it forward, but not adjusting his swing path accordingly.

[emoji106] I agree

[Daves]

It is a very individual thing as JC has said. If it works, adjust your aim accordingly, and use the forward position as needed. As Stuart has identified, the swing path contact point is different when the ball is forward and for me typically results in a straight pull, if I don't adjust my aim and swing line. If I set it up right, it enables me to hit a higher flighted baby fade that has plenty of distance. A good option for me when I want to work the ball opposite to my normal draw shot shape.

[Stuart]

Thanks to everyone for the input and ideas - I'll try the suggestion from JC over the next few days and see what happens.

One of the things I didn't mention was that I doubt I am going to gain much distance overall in the longer term if I don't lower the ball flight a fair bit. The ball is certainly flying noticeably further (mostly into the left-fairway trees admittedly), but due to the excess height, there is zero runout. The course is damp at the moment, and therefore my 'normal' drives aren't getting any run either, but in the long run this will change. I am therefore going to experiment with going back to an old favourite 7.5 degree driver (rather than the current 9 degree) and just see what happens in terms of ball flight.

My overall game sucks, but just mucking about with this stuff sometimes is fun :)

[Steve]

I find that the best position for the ball whilst hit a driver is for the ball to be placed on a tee.

[Stuart]

Not according to Laura Davies. IBF also went through a phase of hitting it off the deck. Although he probably isn't a great example ...

[wazamac]

My ball position is level with my left foot.
If I need to slice around a bend that we have on our course then I move the ball back a little bit in my stance so the club is a little open at impact.
Seems to work for me. The only thing is that I have a tendency to fall back on the shot occasionally. Trying to train myself to get my body through the swing, when I do get it through, it is amazing at the difference in distance.

[Hard_Pan]

Noone has mentioned the position of the hands at address. What I mean is I see plenty of guys place the ball forward when they tee off and then move their hands forwards as well. Not sure if they think (consciously or sub-consciously), they have to maintain the same shaft angle (roughly right angle to the target), as they might have with their irons say.

[Anthony]

Noone has mentioned the position of the hands at address. What I mean is I see plenty of guys place the ball forward when they tee off and then move their hands forwards as well. Not sure if they think (consciously or sub-consciously), they have to maintain the same shaft angle (roughly right angle to the target), as they might have with their irons say.

I use to do that, I would play the ball off the inside of my front foot but I would lean the shaft forward and deloft the driver which resulted in me having a downward angle of attack and a low launch angle. During my lessons my instructor had me move the ball a little bit back, around 2 inches off the inside of my foot. At setup he told me to keep the grip inline with my sternum so the the shaft was leaning back slightly. Then he got me to feel like I straightening out my right arm in the down swing and that the clubhead was passing my hands at impact when hitting driver. In reality the clubhead doesn't pass my hands but that feeling helped me has helped me hit up on the ball with driver at about +3º and also launch the ball higher at 14º. That has also helped bring my spin off the driver down a lot. I gained about 20m from that but I'm also hitting the ball much more consistently because the mechanics are better.

[Stuart]

Trying to train myself to get my body through the swing, when I do get it through, it is amazing at the difference in distance.

This is the bit I found most interesting for me. By putting the ball forward in my stance, I have actually picked up swing speed (and ball speed), which wasn't what I was expecting at all. I just now need to get the trajectory down.

I tried JC's drill of putting the ball even further forward (a inch or two in front of my left foot). My first shot actually cleared the practice net, which sounds impressive if we were talking the practice net at the end of a 300 metre driving range. Unfortunately, I am talking about an almost enclosed net. I basically missed the ball altogether, topping it so badly that it literally bounced straight up and somehow landed about ten metres on the other side of the net. Never seen anyone do that before (and hopefully never will again).

I was a bit gun-shy after that, but kept going, and I think I am getting the hang of it. I also tried Daves' suggestion of just adjusting my aim on course; I hit a few straight bombs with my old Cleveland Classic 7.5 degree driver yesterday by pulling my right foot back an inch after addressing the ball. That was enough to mentally get me thinking of swinging out to the right (which ended up going straight).

[gameboy]

moving it forward was one of the key tips i got from my first lesson in ages. worked a treat - i did have to loft down a bit on the driver to get the correct ball flight

[sfdoddsy]

I can imagine that placing the ball more forward might encourage you to accelerate through the ball and thus improve swing speed. Hitting it on an upward AOA also maximises ball speed, raises launch and lowers spin. If you plug in the numbers on the Flightscope Optimiser site, you'll find the best numbers are invariably found close to the TaylorMade 17* 1700 spin ideal. And the only way to get near that is to hit up on the ball.

The problem with teeing it high and forward to achieve this is the risk of pulling it left, or skying it.

I have a strongly positive AOA, but also a tendency to come over the top a bit. If I don't concentrate on coming straight back and staying inside, I get the same lefts as the OP.

I can mitigate this miss by adjusting the driver to have a more open face, but then of course the risk is a push.

[okitoki]

I have been having a lot of difficulties with my driver since I started playing a few months ago.
Started off being inconsistent... slice, hook, top, under... you name it...
After 1 quick lesson, pointed out I was "over swinging" with my left arm bending on backswing, moving my left foot up, and also dipping my head down and back....its surprising I was able to hit the ball at all...

After consciously making these corrections, I can hit the ball more solid and consistent than before... irons are doing ok... but my driver always gets me into trouble.... slower club head speed now (~85-90mph) and a slight fade, or a big slice if I go for it harder..

Last weekend I remember a lesson I had a long time ago... basic stuff like start the alignment of the driver with your feet close, place driver head and ball directly in front of the middle of your feet, align to target before open feet to swing stance.

By comparing that with my current stance, which was align club face with left foot behind driver head, then open leg, I seem to be opening my club face ...

New stance process seems to be working for me, as I dont have the big slice anymore...just some random pulled shots which could be just my alignment or my old fear of the big slice coming in. ball hit is also more solid... not sure of swing./ball speed difference yet. Will find out tonight trying my M1 again

[wazamac]

I can imagine that placing the ball more forward might encourage you to accelerate through the ball and thus improve swing speed. Hitting it on an upward AOA also maximises ball speed, raises launch and lowers spin. If you plug in the numbers on the Flightscope Optimiser site, you'll find the best numbers are invariably found close to the TaylorMade 17* 1700 spin ideal. And the only way to get near that is to hit up on the ball.

The problem with teeing it high and forward to achieve this is the risk of pulling it left, or skying it.

I have a strongly positive AOA, but also a tendency to come over the top a bit. If I don't concentrate on coming straight back and staying inside, I get the same lefts as the OP.

I can mitigate this miss by adjusting the driver to have a more open face, but then of course the risk is a push.

I more have the the problem of cutting across the ball sometimes. Also hitting it low on the face. I think this is due to sometimes having it to far forward and on too much upward motion by the time it gets to the ball.

That........ plus I'm crap.

[okitoki]

moving it forward was one of the key tips i got from my first lesson in ages. worked a treat - i did have to loft down a bit on the driver to get the correct ball flight

Wow... ok, I tried this last night at the driving range.
with lining up the ball to the front of my left foot... weird sensation.... but it seem to have more consistency of getting rid of my slice now... I can even use my M1 again with the stock stiff shaft

using the cheap swing radar and showing my swing speed did increase slightly from 91mph to 95mph...

[walks]

I gave this a go as I was a big slicer and basically put my driver back in the bag and left it there and tee off with a 3w with ok results.

This worked for me, no slice and great distance. Looking forward to ripping out my driver again and hitting over the fairway bunkers rather than laying up with a 3w [emoji106]