Holden Scramble

[Grunt]

Hi all

Who is playing in the Holden Scramble this year & Who is interested in forming a team to play in it?
Us OzGolfers could build some pretty formidable teams. maybe we could form a couple and play in the same day with the hope that we take the day out.

[3oneday]

Sounds good, lets put our name down for Camden and all not turn up !!!

:lol: I'm mildy interested, depends on where and when I guess.

Pete

[Grunt]

I have had a look and there are heaps of days that the clubs have their event open to members of any AGU Club.
The only one I know a definite date is Macarthur Grange on the Sunday 13th August. There won't be many players as the club did not plan very well. The B & C grade pennants teams are playing their final match away @ Richmond.
Might be a good day for a guy from Bathurst to stack a team up to take a win ;). Also with the lack of numbers we might be able to form up a number of teams.

[Pinglauncher]

Haven't played in a "Scramble" for a few years so would not mind another go. Similar to 3oneday, depends on where and when and being able to fit in with work etc.

[Ducky]

Before we organise anything, we need to come up with a handicap strategy.

:p

[Grunt]

yeah I agree Ducky, I have been noted by some mates as a great ambrose player as my game like a 25+ handicapper does not count but my game like a 10 marker is like gold.

[AndyP]

The Holden Scramble is starting to get a little expensive. Why would I want to pay over $30 to play my home course?

[connico]

i might want to join you guys for this, might put my competitive running and then my handicap will come down!!

[Matt 3 Jab]

a good team would be connico, a big hitter and someone who can really putt.
need a good all round solid player for when the higher handicappers spray their shots, and then on the green, the best putter goes last to see the line.
id be out due to not playing, but have played them before and done ok.

[goughy]

Just watch out for the groups of 3 old men. Although pairing 2 groups together (6 per time) will have hopefully weeded a lot of it out.


And you all know what I'm talking about!

[Grunt]

Yeah in the last couple I have played the scores have got more realistic, but I have seen some pretty high handicap ladies playing that looked like their handicaps were higher than they should have been.
Mates of mine played with the group that won it last year in regional qualifying. They noted that the lady in that group was of ability way higher than her handicap suggested. They later won the National Final.

[Jarro]

so Tezza, Kee ... are we gonna play in this again this year ???????

[terryand]

so Tezza, Kee ... are we gonna play in this again this year ???????

i'm up for it again :smt023

Terry.

[Jarro]

i'm up for it again :smt023

Terry.

what course ??

[terryand]

definitely try nudgee again, but being a Tuesday might not suit Kee.

Terry.

[PeteyD]

What is the Scramble and how does it work?

[Grunt]

3 man ambrose pete, it is a national event where in the final round the players play with a PGA pro.

[PeteyD]

I might be up for that if Kee can't make it and you guys would put up with me.

[burger]

I'd be interested in this too guys . . . . .

Played in one and enjoyed it.

stu

[AndyP]

definitely try nudgee again, but being a Tuesday might not suit Kee.
Jarro, can you get some details of this year's event please? Last year's was a little down on the year before's but was still fun.

[Jarro]

i'll find some info and post it as soon as i can AndyP

[jimandr]

The Holden Scramble details are on the Australian PGA website. Every event is listed by date, and whether it is open or restricted to members.

It is easiest to get there by googling it.

I'm not a very good Ambrose partner, and I've never won as part of a team. I don't hit the ball far enough, close enough to the hole, or hole enough putts. Consistency is often not a valuable quality.

The Macarthur Grange game is scheduled for my birthday. Can I find a better way to spend it than with OzGolfers sledging each other on a course I don't like very much? Probably not. What time is tee time? And is it a shotgun start (they usually are)?

[Grunt]

There are no advertised tee times Jim, it is Macarthur Grange. Last year they decided to do it this way as they thought they would lose too much money from customers that were not interested in playing in the event. They forget that if this day was advertised properly they would get heaps involved as alot of clubs nowadays esspecialy if their events are on weekends are locked out to members only.
If we play in this event(date) we would need to have 2 groups organised and then put in a time that we wish to play. We could get more but I am not confident. If we only get one group we would have to book a prefered tee time and then wait for teh club to get back to us to see if they have another group willing to play at that time or another tee time that they have a group playing in the event.
So if we could get 6 of us, it could be a great day as we would all play together and have a good laugh celebrating your birthday and maybe one of us will qualify for the regionals.

[Coffs_Hacker]

there is also the www.holdenscramble.com.au website too

[Grunt]

Spoke with Macarthur Grange Pro Shop today about Scramble date. It is a open tee. One social golf club on the course in the morning. Plan for the event is it is late i nte Scramble calendar and hope to attract guys that have had a go at qualifing and failed wanting to have another go.

So who is interested in making the 13th August the OzGolf Scramble day? I will make a calendar entry for it. If we can get players that are interested to list then we can sort out teams.

Lets all have a great day of Ambrose golf.

[Grunt]

Here is the link for the calendar.

Holden Scramble (http://www.ozgolf.net/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=62&day=2006-8-13&c=1)

Would be great to get 4 teams but I know that is hard to do here. To get 12 players is sometimes hard, if not impossible here in NSW.

[connico]

ill play!!!

[TS]

Jono, Connico & I had decided to form one team for the Holden Scramble at Macarthur Grange. It should be interesting. We have the offical second worst putter in ozgolf (Jono). The self claim worst putter in ozgolf (Connico). I guess I am the only real golfer in the group. So watch out for The Dragons from the East.

[PeteyD]

Anyone want to form a team for up here in Brissy?

[AndyP]

Petey, if you can find a single capper to join us, then we might make a good team. Nudgee is the most likely place where I will play this thing.

[PeteyD]

With Jarro etc playing nudgee it would be nice to have another team there! Now to find some single capper willing to play !!

[Jarro]

yeah, you guys get your team together, and we'll try and play together at Nudgee.

Kee, are you still in for this with me and Tezza ?

[Choppa]

I don't mind the old Scramble, so if there's a vacant spot around I am keen.

[BrisVegas]

Sorry if this has already been answered, but isn't the Nudgee event on Tuesday the 5th Sept???

Why do they put these things on mid-week?? Sheeesh.

[PeteyD]

There are ones on weekends as well. goldCoastCountry 9th, Redcliffe 10th etc

[AndyP]

Sorry if this has already been answered, but isn't the Nudgee event on Tuesday the 5th Sept???

Why do they put these things on mid-week?? Sheeesh.
I get the feeling that I might have a migraine that day. We could have Choppa in our team, he's practically a single capper.

[PeteyD]

True. Sounds like a goer to me!

[dc68]

If you guys get a weekend spot and need a single marker I will play.

[Choppa]

Yeah weekend spot for me too......Redcliffe could be good?

[BrisVegas]

Yeah weekend spot for me too......Redcliffe could be good?

About time you played on your side of town...

I'm a chance for a game at Redcliffe, if anyone wants a fair-middling 8 hcap. I go great in ambroses though!

[PeteyD]

Haven't played Redcliffe before. That might be a go!

[Jarro]

Redcliffe would be good. I love that course :)

[Choppa]

So what do we have here.....

Choppa
Vegas
PeteyD
Jarro

Any other takers?

[Jarro]

Tezza was keen for Nudgee, but i'm sure he'd like to play at Redcliffe too ;)

[PeteyD]

dc68 is keen too I think

[AndyP]

Maybe. Scrambles are a bit of a rip off though, so I'd probably only play one.

[Choppa]

You know you wanna play with us at Redcliffe Andy.....

[terryand]

Tezza was keen for Nudgee, but i'm sure he'd like to play at Redcliffe too ;)

Hell, why not and Windy is in October if we miss both of these :-s

Terry.

[Jarro]

we have to do Windaroo Tezza :smt045

[Choppa]

Few more.....

Choppa
Vegas
PeteyD
Jarro
Tezza
DC68??
AndyP (you know you want to)

[Grunt]

Jono, Connico & I had decided to form one team for the Holden Scramble at Macarthur Grange. It should be interesting. We have the offical second worst putter in ozgolf (Jono). The self claim worst putter in ozgolf (Connico). I guess I am the only real golfer in the group. So watch out for The Dragons from the East.

So going by the Calendar entries saying they are keen the other team is myself, Jimandr & Burger. Our handicap will be quite good with Burgers and myselves dragging it up.
Anyone else interested? What time does everyone want to play? I will register our interest once we have a time agreed.

[Grunt]

I will also get some entry sheets if they have to be in beforehand, and also find out prices for the day.

[TS]

Grant. I am happy to play anytime that you want. Knowing Jim & Jono, they both don't like getting up early, I would suggest 10am.

[Jono]

Grant. I am happy to play anytime that you want. Knowing Jim & Jono, they both don't like getting up early, I would suggest 10am.

Doesn't matter. I'll only be playing 3 holes anyway ... ;) :lol:

[TS]

Doesn't matter. I'll only be playing 3 holes anyway ... ;) :lol:

I had already taken that into account. At least I know Connico got balls, anyone that will walk into a lake with their new shoes are ok. 2 of us will carry the team.

[jimandr]

So going by the Calendar entries saying they are keen the other team is myself, Jimandr & Burger. Our handicap will be quite good with Burgers and myselves dragging it up.
Anyone else interested? What time does everyone want to play? I will register our interest once we have a time agreed.


TS, Jono and Connico should form a good team on paper.

It had to happen eventually, a 'continent of origin' challenge.

[Virgal_Tracy]

If Burger is out or we can get another couple of players I'm in, otherwise I'll sit on the sidelines and wait to hear all of the banter from the game

[dc68]

Few more.....

Choppa
Vegas
PeteyD
Jarro
Tezza
DC68??
AndyP (you know you want to)

I am in as long as it is a weekend and not too pricey.

[BrisVegas]

Isn't there only allowed to be just 1 x single-figure player in each team?? Not a big deal, just means we need a few more "choppers"!

[Choppa]

I just thought we would get a few names down first then work out teams. If we have left overs then we gotta work some shite out I guess.

Is Kee in??

[andylo]

I am in if I am in DC's group

Choppa
Vegas
PeteyD
Jarro
Tezza
DC68??
Alo
AndyP (you know you want to)

[dc68]

Are you stalking me Andy?:-s

[andylo]

its more like stalking your beautiful iron striking.

[AndyP]

That's creepy.

dc, be afraid, be very afraid.

[Kee]

Sorry for the late reply. Haven't been on OzGolf lately. Yep, count me in for the scramble. Tezza, Jarro, if the spot is still open in your team, I'll be happy to try to contribute 3 shots to the day (that's the rules right?).

[Ducky]

I'm too lazy to research this. What are the dates?

Edit: nevermind, I am looking at the website now.

Okay, it looks like the Bathurst GC is on September 3rd.

[Choppa]

So far so good

Choppa
Vegas
PeteyD

Jarro
Tezza
Kee

DC68??
Alo
AndyP (you know you want to)

[AndyP]

Date and cost for Redcliffe?

[dc68]

I am in.

[PeteyD]

Entry fee is $30. This does not include green fees etc that the host club might want to charge.

[Grunt]

For the guy interested in playing at Macarthur Grange the cost is $49 including cart hire. For some reason the site says cart hire is compulsory.

[TS]

For the guy interested in playing at Macarthur Grange the cost is $49 including cart hire. For some reason the site says cart hire is compulsory.

That is fine, Grant. Do we need to fill in the form or are you going to make the booking for us?

[Grunt]

I will make the booking for us. What time does everyone want to tee off?

I guess seeing as it will be Jim's Birthday he should get to play when he like too.

[TS]

I will make the booking for us. What time does everyone want to tee off?

I guess seeing as it will be Jim's Birthday he should get to play when he like too.

Knowing Jim, I think around 6:30am would be perfect.

You & Jim can pick a time, we should be fine. With Jono track record of being late, Connico & I will most likely to playing the first 3 holes by ourselves. And Jono will walk off after playing 2 holes. It is a good thing Connico & I have big shoulders.

TS

[Choppa]

Date and cost for Redcliffe?

I think it's the 10th of September, so you have plenty of time to save those penny's.

[Grunt]

Hey can we compete amoungst ourselves in this? I know we may not be playing at the same courses but we could work something out with the ACR's of them all couldn't we. Could be a fun little side bet?

[Jarro]

wouldn't be fun Grant 'cos i'd kick your butt :p



hehehehehe

[Grunt]

Game On, Challenge Accepted!!!

[Jarro]

cool, how are we gonna work this out ???

[Jono]

cool, how are we gonna work this out ???

Simple, really ...

The handicap for the team is worked out by adding the 3 handicaps and the dividing by 6, correct?

When you add the 3 handicaps, you can factor in the ACR. So if your course plays to par, then it basically the 3 handicaps as they are. So let's say you have player A with handicap 8, player B off 12, and player C off 22. The Combined handicap would be (8+12+22)/6 = 7.

Now, let's say your course plays 2 strokes easier than par. Then you have to take away 2 from each handicap. So the combined handicap of above three players would become (6+10+20)/6 = 6.

If your course plays 2 strokes harder than par, then the combined handicap would become (10+14+24)/6 = 8.

[Grunt]

I guess we will have to work out the result after accounting the ACR for the courses involved. Macarthur Grange is 69. So if your course is 73 and we assume 72 is par.

We get 10 under
You get 8 under

We would add 3 shot to our score giving us 7 under
and take 1 off yours to get 9 under.

Would that work?

[Grunt]

Then CCR will not be calculated Jono, we will have to go off the ACR only.

[Jono]

Then CCR will not be calculated Jono, we will have to go off the ACR only.

Correct. You can only go by the ACR as the CCR will not be calculated.

Not a perfect system, but better than nothing.

[Jono]

I guess we will have to work out the result after accounting the ACR for the courses involved. Macarthur Grange is 69. So if your course is 73 and we assume 72 is par.

We get 10 under
You get 8 under

We would add 3 shot to our score giving us 7 under
and take 1 off yours to get 9 under.

Would that work?

No. That would not work.

You have to factor in the difference in the ACR in EACH player's handicap and adjust the "effective handicap" accordingly.

If a 10 marker plays on a par 72 course with ACR of 70, he "effectively" becomes a 8 marker. Conversely, if he plays on a course with par of 72 but ACR of 73, then he effectively becomes an 11 marker on that course. So the handicap adjustment has to be done to EACH player, BEFORE you divide the total by 6.

Whether it's fair or not, it's the mathematically correct way.

[Jarro]

lost me :smt104

[TS]

lost me :smt104

What Jono it trying to say is that we won and you lose.

[Grunt]

Jono I do not believe you are correct there with your calculations. If it were the way you play it peoples handicap would change at every course they play at, every time. It never does so does it. Handicaps are all worked out to close to 72 as possible and ACR's make everyones handicaps the same, a 10 marker at a ACR 67 course is a 10 marker at a ACR 75 course, he/she has to score differently to manage playing to a ACR 72 that the handicap is based on.
The shot differences are not as great as full shots, maybe the A graders are like that but the higher markers would not be the same.

[Jono]

lost me :smt104

Say we have three different courses, all with par 72. Let's call these course 1, course 2 and course 3. Course 1 has ACR of 70, Course 2 has ACR of 72 and Course 3 has ACR of 74.

Now let's take the 3 players with handicaps 8, 12, and 22.

On Course 1 (ACR 70), the "effective" handicap of player A is not 8, but 6. Yes? And effective handicap of player B is not 12, but 10. Player C's effective handicap is 20. So their combined effective handicap for this course would be (6+10+20)/6 which is 6.

If these same 3 players played on Course 2 (ACR 72), then their combined handicap would simply be (8+12+22)/6 which is 7.

Using the same logic, the combined handicap for these players on course 3 (ACR 74) would be (10+14+24)/6 which is 8.

Note how all three courses have par of 72. What really matter is the ACR compared to the par for the course.

[Grunt]

Forget, I came up with this idea to have some fun.
It is too complicated to satify everyone. If we were serious we would have to take into account heaps of factors like;

Course Elevation (elevated climate enhanced athletes)
Weather
What type of ball each player uses
What colour Undies players are wearing, if any at all
The color of the Tees that we tee off from
The possiblilities are endlessI guess I am not mathematical enough to work out a simple side bet.

[Jono]

Jono I do not believe you are correct there with your calculations. If it were the way you play it peoples handicap would change at every course they play at, every time. It never does so does it. Handicaps are all worked out to close to 72 as possible and ACR's make everyones handicaps the same, a 10 marker at a ACR 67 course is a 10 marker at a ACR 75 course, he/she has to score differently to manage playing to a ACR 72 that the handicap is based on.
The shot differences are not as great as full shots, maybe the A graders are like that but the higher markers would not be the same.

Grant. My maths is correct.

If we are going to compare two scramble scores from two different courses, this is the way it should be done. I'm not saying it's fair.

You can have two courses with ACR of 72 (and par of 72) and whilst in theory, these two courses should be of same difficulty, one course might set up easier for the ambrose format (say with short par 5's and 4's with eagle opportunities). You are never going to get a completely fair handicapping system in ambrose, but what I suggested works mathematically.

[AndyP]

Interesting theory, Mr Oh. But here's some food for thought.

Maybe the difference in shots between Par and the ACR should come off the group ambrose handicap not the individuals. As opposed to the individuals playing a full round on the course, they are actually playing each shot from the position of the best shot of the group.

Hmmmmmm....

[Jono]

Interesting theory, Mr Oh. But here's some food for thought.

Maybe the difference in shots between Par and the ACR should come off the group ambrose handicap not the individuals. As opposed to the individuals playing a full round on the course, they are actually playing each shot from the position of the best shot of the group.

Hmmmmmm....

If the total handicap was sum of the three handicaps divided by 3, then what you say will work.

However, in the Ambrose situation, the total handicap is sum of the 3 handicaps divided by 6 ... If you do as you suggest, and apply the difference between par and ACR to the group's score, then you are magnifying the difficulty (or easiness) of the course. (by a factor of 2).

As I said in the earlier post, there's no such thing as a fair handicapping system in what is essentially a mulligan golf ... But, if you go by the handicapping system where you divide by 6 (and not the number of players which is 3), then you have to account for the course difficulty to the individual's handicap BEFORE you add them up and divide by 6.

[AndyP]

So where x = Par - ACR and a, b & c are the players handicaps,

hcap = [(a-x) + (b-x) + (c-x)]/6
or simplified to hcap = [a+b+c]/6 - x/2

that is, you work out your OZgolf Scramble handicap by taking your normal ambrose handicap and subtracting half of the difference between par and ACR.

Is everyone clear? Excellent. Good luck.

[Jono]

So where x = Par - ACR and a, b & c are the players handicaps,

hcap = [(a-x) + (b-x) + (c-x)]/6
or simplified to hcap = [a+b+c]/6 - x/2

that is, you work out your OZgolf Scramble handicap by taking your normal ambrose handicap and subtracting half of the difference between par and ACR.

Is everyone clear? Excellent. Good luck.

At last ... an Ozgolfer who was awake during year 7 algebra ... ;)

:lol:

[terryand]

At last ... an Ozgolfer who was awake during year 7 algebra ... ;)

:lol:

Isn't this what grows on the bottom of your pool if you don't turn the filter on :-s

Terry.