Anyone suggest a shaft with these numbers?

[Speirsy11]

So, I went to my friendly local clubfitter today because I've found myself losing a lot of distance since finally (after 2+ years) feeling like my swing changes are set. I'm hitting these spinny shots with driver and it's costing me yardage but until tonght I had no idea how much........

Numbers are average of 20 shots hit with my driver, 10.5* Bridgestone J33R 460 with Protopype 60-X @ 45" 299CPM.......

124mph ss
177mph ball speed
11* launch

and the kicker...........

4400RPM backspin.

So, what shaft can lower my spin rate without dropping my launch (or even raising it)? I like the head I'm using and have no desire to embark on more swing changes (I'm hitting everything else great).......The clubfitter guy figures I'm giving up 30 yards......I imagine realworld it would be closer to 15-20.......

Any suggestions are appreciated......

[kwantfm]

BiMatrx Prototype (supposedly)

[Speirsy11]

BiMatrix Prototype (supposedly)

Oh yeah.......I forgot that it was even out........And who says Tiger missing the cut doesn't affect product visibility :)

Good suggestion...Thanks

[Jono]

Rob,

I don't know whether this would apply in your case, but I had a launchy session at Powergolf recently. I hit three Hibores, exactly the same head (9.5 degree) but with different shafts. One had V2 Stiff, another had NV Stiff, and the last one had Fuji Vista Tour 70. All had approximately the same launch angle (around 13 degrees), but the Vista Tour had significantly less spin than the other two. From memory, the V2 and the NV had around 3500 to 4000 rpm's whereas the Vista Tour had around 2500.

If you haven't tried it already, it might be worthwhile trying the Vista Tour, perhaps in the X flex for you.

BTW, whilst you were on the launch monitor, did you try altering your ball position and tee height to see if that affected the spin rate?

[terryand]

I think you need to bring the CPM down about 15-20, 299 would be like swinging a crowbar.

I guessing you wouldn't swing it any harder or faster than John Senden and he has his YS-6's around the 270 CPM mark.

Just a thought,but I guess if you didn't use those numbers you would be run out of Bombsquad ;) :mrgreen:

Terry.

[BrisVegas]

BTW, whilst you were on the launch monitor, did you try altering your ball position and tee height to see if that affected the spin rate?

That was my first thought too. Could even go to a 8.5 or 9.5 driver, but play it forward in the stance on a taller tee. Should give a similar launch angle but reduce the backspin considerably.

You've already said you are longer than most of the pros you play with, so length probably isn't a serious issue for you. The only reason for you to change anything is to control trajectory a little better.

[ben]

Spirsey,

The only way you're going to do that is by dropping loft or a stronger tip shaft (tho a stronger tip shaft won't significantly effect the spin rate). The shaft can only effect the spin by bending less forward at impact. You could also use a head that has a closer to the face COG, but again that will only change it slightly.

Terry,

Not quite true. The Harmon HTD can cycle out at around 300 (raw) in X flex, but it has a very weak tip and feel's very active and "plays soft". This comes back down to the butt frequency not being a measure of shaft flex or feel.

[terryand]

Ben,thank you once again for your boundless amounts of knowledge and putting me straight, but you are talking about one shaft. As a general rule of thumb, anything over 300cpm's should be holding up the tomato vine.

Hell not even Peter Rs would be up near that number :-s

Terry.

[ben]

Any time terry.

[peter_rs]

Your right Terry.

My XXX LD shafts are on 295. & I have given up them because I'm lazy at the moment. The X's I use are on the 269 mark.

I would recommend the tour vista, bi-matrix, Gramans or Graf Blue LD.

If you want try a DGSL driver shaft at 110 grams in X . I did't lose any distance when I tried one but the spin rate did drop.

[Ona]

hit it closer to the crown, get some vertical gear effect happening. also like the ball position suggestion. or just slow your ridiculously high ss down a bit and buy the 510tp tour accra sc75 combo off me, it dont want to spin.

[Jono]

hit it closer to the crown, get some vertical gear effect happening. also like the ball position suggestion. or just slow your ridiculously high ss down a bit and buy the 510tp tour accra sc75 combo off me, it dont want to spin.

I know some people are sold on this, but I'm not so sure. There probably is some vertical gear effect happening, but how much influence would it have in cutting down backspin?

My last launchy session showed that the shots higher up on the face increased spin rate along with the trajectory. Probably better to hit it in the middle of the face, perhaps fraction of an inch above center, and try to cut down the spin by using less lofted driver with the right shaft for your swing.

[kwantfm]

Increase in spin rate on upper face hits is probably a function of clubface roll... it might well be that the upper part of the face has an effect loft 2-3% greater than the centre on a club with significant roll...

My recollection of the R510 TP is that it had little roll.

[ben]

Vertical gear effect doesn't generally come into it as the shaft will prevent the head rotating around the heads horizonal COG Axis (Vertical gear effect being the ball striking above or below the COG on the face and causing the head to rotate backward). Unlike toe/heel gear effect which will happen as the club will be able to rotate around the heads COG axis.

Terrance is correct about the roll radius, depending on what it is actually measured at will depend on what kind of extra loft (and spin) will change the launch conditions.

Rob, the other thing you may want to do is get your angle of attack measured. This can also effect the spin rates you get.

[Speirsy11]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.......

I'm not going to start laying with ball position as it has an effect on direction when I do it. I already tee it high and hit on the up swing I just can't seem to drop the spin rate....The head I have is a lower spin head than the 510TP (I know because I've had 3 of them).

I've decided to go with a FT-3 LCG head and an Ozik XX......We'll see how it goes......

[Jono]

What was that driver you hit when you played at Bayview? The one you hit on the first (par 5) to within 110 meters of the green, and on the 3rd (another par 5) to within 150 meters of the green? 540XD? What shaft did you have in that?

Man, you killed that driver ... I don't know what the spin rate would have been, but I can't imagine it would have been too far from ideal. 8)

[Speirsy11]

What was that driver you hit when you played at Bayview? The one you hit on the first (par 5) to within 110 meters of the green, and on the 3rd (another par 5) to within 150 meters of the green? 540XD? What shaft did you have in that?

Man, you killed that driver ... I don't know what the spin rate would have been, but I can't imagine it would have been too far from ideal. 8)

That was a 540DF with a Harmon (HTD) X in it.......Didn't ever put it on a machine but I'd say it was in the 300CPM range.....It went like crazy but was not forgiving enough for me under the gun......Hopefully this new one will be....

[kwantfm]

Speirsy,

Hope you got a special price on the FT-3/TP-7 combo. Sounds like about US 2k for most people.

Cheers,
T

[Ona]

strange that you hit it on the upswing, make contact above the centre of the face yet have a launch angle less than 1* higher than the head loft...

since the thread is basically finito I dont mind threadjacking. In his most recent e-tech Wishon admitted that the Vertical Gear effect plays a larger role than he previously thought. Apparently there is Trackman data showing a 800rpm or something decrease in spin when contact is made above centre, despite there being vertical roll. Dont know what ss that was with, but fair chance it was lower than the gorilla here, so the numbers would proly be even greater. Still not enough on it's own tho, assuming he doesn't already make use of it.

[Speirsy11]

strange that you hit it on the upswing, make contact above the centre of the face yet have a launch angle less than 1* higher than the head loft...

since the thread is basically finito I dont mind threadjacking. In his most recent e-tech Wishon admitted that the Vertical Gear effect plays a larger role than he previously thought. Apparently there is Trackman data showing a 800rpm or something decrease in spin when contact is made above centre, despite there being vertical roll. Dont know what ss that was with, but fair chance it was lower than the gorilla here, so the numbers would proly be even greater. Still not enough on it's own tho, assuming he doesn't already make use of it.

Actually, I tend to hit it a little low on theface, hence the high spin and low launch.

[Ona]

well the new club should fix that up nicely ;)

[glen]

I have similar specs to you Speirsy and was fitted by the Titleist science van. I will pass on to you what they told me. A lot of launch monitors dont measure spin rates,they calculate it from ball speed and launch angle. There's actually measures spin. They use pro v1 and prov1x balls with marks on the side thatthe machine can detect for spin rates.

My swing speed was 123 mph with a ball speed of 181 mph with a spin rate of 3340rpm. This was with my 983K with YS6.

We tried many different combinations as they had all of their drivers in all lofts and shafts and the only way to get the spin rate down was to go to the lower spin rate head of the 905S. The other shafts and 905T were spinning nearly as much.

In the end I was fitted with a 905S 9.5* with Graffalloy blue which brought my spin rate down to 2850 rpm. Which according to the launch monitor equates to an extra 15 yards.

On the course I would say this is about right.

Hope this helps as I learnt a lot from them,they say this is the machine they use to fit their tour pros.

[BrisVegas]

Glad you got sorted out with something that works, Glen. The 905S is the lowest spinning head Titleist offers at the moment... Makes sense that it would suit you.

[Speirsy11]

well the new club should fix that up nicely ;)

Actually, it should. The lower COG in the FT-3 will be closer to the bottom of the face, making my miss less severe compared to the Bridgestone that I'm currently using. This will help drop the spin rate as well as up the launch. The shaft is a high launch shaft, compared to the protopype which is one of the lowest launching shafts on the market; this will also raise the launch angle, but without increasing spin. All those differences should help derease the spin number while at the same time increasing my launch angle.

But hey, you already knew that didn't you.

[Speirsy11]

I have similar specs to you Speirsy and was fitted by the Titleist science van. I will pass on to you what they told me. A lot of launch monitors dont measure spin rates,they calculate it from ball speed and launch angle. There's actually measures spin. They use pro v1 and prov1x balls with marks on the side thatthe machine can detect for spin rates.

My swing speed was 123 mph with a ball speed of 181 mph with a spin rate of 3340rpm. This was with my 983K with YS6.

We tried many different combinations as they had all of their drivers in all lofts and shafts and the only way to get the spin rate down was to go to the lower spin rate head of the 905S. The other shafts and 905T were spinning nearly as much.

In the end I was fitted with a 905S 9.5* with Graffalloy blue which brought my spin rate down to 2850 rpm. Which according to the launch monitor equates to an extra 15 yards.

On the course I would say this is about right.

Hope this helps as I learnt a lot from them,they say this is the machine they use to fit their tour pros.

The LM that I was on is the same as the one Ben uses. It, aparently, does measure spin accurately as it is the same model used by Callaway and True Temper prior to the trackman stuff becoming available.

That 905s head is a great one, I had one prior to getting the Bridgestone. I found it to be awesome when I was winging well, but not great when I wasn't so I went to the 460 heads to get mor forgiveness. I've tried that Blue shaft in a few heads and really am not a fan though. Guys who love it REALLY ove it, but I'm just not one of them.

[peter_rs]

As glen said the most accurate LM for spin is the vector (vision based that tracks the rotation of the ball via a line). The laser based system are close but can give mis leading results. Speirsy Drummond have a vector in every store that is FREE may be worth a look.

[Speirsy11]

As glen said the most accurate LM for spin is the vector (vision based that tracks the rotation of the ball via a line). The laser based system are close but can give mis leading results. Speirsy Drummond have a vector in every store that is FREE may be worth a look.

Actually, Trackman is far and away the best one since it is a doppler system. Drummond is of no use to me since I live in small town WA now, not Sydney. Also, I've been on a Vector in the past and my spin numbers were essentially the same (a little lower, but this was before the swing changes). I don't doubt the numbers at all, I am confident that they are 100% accurate. Ben will surely have more info, but the system I was on is very accurate for spin numbers, if anything they are known to be a little under the actual number.

[Ona]

Actually, it should. The lower COG in the FT-3 will be closer to the bottom of the face, making my miss less severe compared to the Bridgestone that I'm currently using. This will help drop the spin rate as well as up the launch. The shaft is a high launch shaft, compared to the protopype which is one of the lowest launching shafts on the market; this will also raise the launch angle, but without increasing spin. All those differences should help derease the spin number while at the same time increasing my launch angle.

But hey, you already knew that didn't you.

oooo, put the claws away kitty.

Can you explain to me how the shaft launches higher yet without extra spin, I haven't read the marketing speil yet :confused: Maybe you should try the Hi-bore, wasn't there a review by some other big hitter saying it has really low spin? Anyway, if I had a swing like yours I wouldn't want to change it either. Still, it would be ho nice to just ho hit it higher on the ho face :twisted:

lol, just stirring ya a little. Hope the new stick works a treat :-D

[glen]

speirsy,i would be interested to know how you get on with the new set up as i would like to try a 460cc driver but didnt know which set up would give me the low spin rates i need. it is difficult as i dont have access to the latest launch monitors

[Jarro]

Peter_rs, .. you say Drummonds have a launchy you can use for FREE ?

[peter_rs]

They have TWO in the city(brisbane).

When ever you talk to a guy there about a new driver, they ask you to hop on the LM with your current driver and see whats going on, then make recommendations on head or shaft changes. I have been in there twice just looking for a change and the guys have talked me out of it after seeing LM results with my current combo vs other gear instore.

When ever I'm bored I go down there and play with different combo's. It helps to know the guys or pretend you are looking a buying.