Golf cheats!!!!

[Barnesy01]

Played on Saturday with a notorious Golf Cheat at our club. Had to pull him up, obviously said that he didn't do it.
Refused to sign his card, he got DQ'd.
Thoughts on what the club should do, 2 Month Comp suspension?

Things he does, (whilst we're not watching)
lifts the ball with club out of the rough,
moves the ball from a bad lie,
marker on the green in front of ball, then places ball in front of marker,
drags marker towards hole with putter,

Anyone else played with Cheats, and how do you pull them up?

[Dotty]

Get it mentioned at the presentation. Many years ago, a member was once identified as the only bloke who could tee off with a white ball, putt out with a yellow ball and still make par.

And tell him to google 'Vijay Singh Asian Tour Ban'.

[solarman]

Barnsey, I know who you are talking about and that is just the tip of the iceberg with what he does.
You aren't the first who hasn't signed his card.

[Ferrins]

Ask his brother if he is a d^ khead?

[Dotty]

Ask his brother if he is a d^ khead?
And his opinion of Scott Laycock?

[solarman]

I have a special club I use called a Leather Wedge.
Gets me out of trouble all the time. :) Especially when playing with Haysey and Courty. I go "look over there".

[Dcanto]

Barnsey, I know who you are talking about and that is just the tip of the iceberg with what he does.You aren't the first who hasn't signed his card. I'm intrigued by who this player might be. Do they play at other clubs or do they just ply their trade at PP?

[solarman]

But you can't cheat at Gordonvale Golf Club. Its all open ground, unless you can get your buggy to obscure someone's view :)

[Slothman]

Anyone else played with Cheats, and how do you pull them up?

Call them on it. You don't even have to point it out at the time. Always give them a chance to "fess up".

Next tee with everyone around I have been known to correct a guy and give my reason why.

Me: What do I put you down for?
Cheat: 5 for 2
M: You sure its not a 7 for a wipe due to that drop you did from behind the tree when you thought no-one was watching?
C: ummmmm

Had one guy always report back 1-2 under what he shot. Same thing wait for the tee box "nah man, I am writing you down for a 9 as they are the ones I saw and counted..not a 6."

If you need to do more than that. Ignore them, don't sign and report the reason for not signing. Chances are if they keep doing that kind of stuff your opinion of them won't phase them, so why should it phase you?

[solarman]

[QUOTE=Slothman;1315441]Call them on it. You don't even have to point it out at the time. Always give them a chance to "fess up".

Next tee with everyone around I have been known to correct a guy and give my reason why.

Me: What do I put you down for?
Cheat: 5 for 2
M: You sure its not a 7 for a wipe due to that drop you did from behind the tree when you thought no-one was watching?
C: ummmmm

Had one guy always report back 1-2 under what he shot. Same thing wait for the tee box "nah man, I am writing you down for a 9 as they are the ones I saw and counted..not a 6."

If you need to do more than that. Ignore them, don't sign and report the reason for not signing. Chances are if they keep doing that kind of stuff your opinion of them won't phase them, so why should it phase you?[/QUOTE

yep, that's about it.

[Dcanto]

But you can't cheat at Gordonvale Golf Club. Its all open ground, unless you can get your buggy to obscure someone's view :) Sounds like you know all the tricks. ;)

[Johnny Canuck]

Played on Saturday with a notorious Golf Cheat at our club. Had to pull him up, obviously said that he didn't do it.
Refused to sign his card, he got DQ'd.
Thoughts on what the club should do, 2 Month Comp suspension?

Things he does, (whilst we're not watching)
lifts the ball with club out of the rough,
moves the ball from a bad lie,
marker on the green in front of ball, then places ball in front of marker,
drags marker towards hole with putter,

Anyone else played with Cheats, and how do you pull them up?

It needs to go in writing to the committee.

I was recently sitting in on a match committee and had a cheater brought before us.

He copped 6 months and was in danger of getting even more if we got what we had wanted.

[goughy]

It always seems these guys are well known for it at their clubs too.

[WBennett]

Sounds like you know all the tricks. ;)

'Wednesday rules'

[Ferrins]

Get the guy into tennis where a lifetime of cheating begins by your third competitive match.

[Barnesy01]

I'm intrigued by who this player might be. Do they play at other clubs or do they just ply their trade at PP? Mainly PP, other courses are generally with the Vets.

[Barnesy01]

I have a special club I use called a Leather Wedge.Gets me out of trouble all the time. :) Especially when playing with Haysey and Courty. I go "look over there". That's why they're called Foot Joys

[davidw88]

There was a fella at our club cheating and everyone knew he did and a group wrote to the committee and the manager sent him a letter but put on it who had seen him cheating which was a bit stupid I thought. He wasn't banned but haven't seen him since.

[oldracer]

There was a fella at our club cheating and everyone knew he did and a group wrote to the committee and the manager sent him a letter but put on it who had seen him cheating which was a bit stupid I thought. He wasn't banned but haven't seen him since.possibly served the purpose tho Dave

[Hard_Pan]

A foursome of cheaters caused a popular annual corporate golf day I used to enjoy to be forever abandoned because of their antics. Each of them have since cancelled their golf memberships which suggests they were only ever 'in it' to win this one tournament year in, year out. Pathetic.

[3oneday]

Isn't that called Holden Scramble?

[Hard_Pan]

No. I think this particular event was cancelled before the Holden Scrambles began.

[davidw88]

possibly served the purpose tho Dave

Yeah, he was a b grader and in our annual open tournament was just off the gross leader in A grade by a shot or 2 in the first round.

[YonexMan]

Whenever I've had a difference of opinion on rulings or if I think something suspect is going in, I've just phoned up the pro shop. The pro is always able to hand down the correct rule. In regards to suspect scoring, the club won't tolerate it. They have someone driving around the course in a golf cart keeping a general eye on players making sure that the rules are being enforced as well as keeping the pace of play flowing.

[Timbo]

I've heard stories at my club about a guy that drove by himself in a cart, and would regularly take off ahead of everybody in the group and pick up his ball and place it on a nice lie. Whenever he was questioned, he stated that he needed to check that it was his ball (even when there was no doubt).

He was the Club Captain.

[Kaniss]

Got a mate like this, compulsive cheater. It's so bad infact we have started using clickers to count his shots. in addition we shout his shots at him so he knows we are counting.

[Hatchman]

Got a mate like this, compulsive cheater. It's so bad infact we have started using clickers to count his shots. in addition we shout his shots at him so he knows we are counting.

If he's a mate and a blatant cheat how can you trust him with anything?
Dishonest on the course, dishonest off it IMHO.

[mrbluu]

I've heard stories at my club about a guy that drove by himself in a cart, and would regularly take off ahead of everybody in the group and pick up his ball and place it on a nice lie. Whenever he was questioned, he stated that he needed to check that it was his ball (even when there was no doubt).

He was the Club Captain.


Got a mate like this, compulsive cheater. It's so bad infact we have started using clickers to count his shots. in addition we shout his shots at him so he knows we are counting.

Sounds like a top bloke, is he playing the holden scramble with Timbo's Club Captain??

[Timbo]

He can't - the Club Captain is dead now.
Cheats never prosper.

[wazamac]

He can't - the Club Captain is dead now.
Cheats never propagate.

FTFY

[WBennett]

What about handicap manipulators? I've had a look at local results, and noticed a few names pop up regularly. One guy around Canberra is amazingly ordinary at his home track, then plays a local open and amazingly shoot 36-42 points - EVERY TIME.

Then he loses his form and goes back out for the next few weeks until the next Open event.

[LeftyHoges]

What about handicap manipulators? I've had a look at local results, and noticed a few names pop up regularly. One guy around Canberra is amazingly ordinary at his home track, then plays a local open and amazingly shoot 36-42 points - EVERY TIME.

Then he loses his form and goes back out for the next few weeks until the next Open event.

Does he have games entered in his GL when there's no official comp on, then go out on the weekend in 36 hole events and just murder it every time?

[backintheswing]

What about handicap manipulators? I've had a look at local results, and noticed a few names pop up regularly. One guy around Canberra is amazingly ordinary at his home track, then plays a local open and amazingly shoot 36-42 points - EVERY TIME.

Then he loses his form and goes back out for the next few weeks until the next Open event.

Does he post in the tractor thread on here? Sounds like any number of ozgolfers

[Hatchman]

What about handicap manipulators? I've had a look at local results, and noticed a few names pop up regularly. One guy around Canberra is amazingly ordinary at his home track, then plays a local open and amazingly shoot 36-42 points - EVERY TIME.

Then he loses his form and goes back out for the next few weeks until the next Open event.

Is his home track a hard course?
Back when I was at Balaklava members would regularly feature in the winners at association club open events in any grade.
None of the guys were handicap farmers. It was just our course was a lot longer and harder to play than all the others in the area. Small tiny raised greens with wet surrounds meant it was 100% carry.
When we went away we found most courses at least 2-4 shots easier to play than we could at home.
Balaklava used to have a reputation with the vets as being too tough so they ended up playing it of the reds in veterans and midweek comps.

That or hes just an outright handicap cheater?

[markTHEblake]

Played on Saturday with a notorious Golf Cheat at our club. Had to pull him up, obviously said that he didn't do it.
Refused to sign his card, he got DQ'd.
Despite the circumstances, the marker refusing to sign a scorecard is not cause for Disqualification alone.

Case Example: Professional A witnesses Professional B magically find his ball where it wasnt before (like the old drop ball down trouser leg trick).
A gives the scorecard to B and says he is disgusted and will not sign it. Player B complains to PGA about harassment/slander and denies any wrong doing
PGA decides its one players word against the other and impose no penalty on B.
A still refuses to sign card, so PGA committee sign it as marker. Score stands.
(Player A good friend of mine, and I have related this story before here. Player B was reported to have repeated this 2 or more times again, no longer plays tournaments soon after)

Thus for any action to be taken against this player you need to have multiple witnesses if the player does not admit it. Hey, you got camera phones now, surely its not that hard!
Sadly its incidences like this that can destroy friendships within clubs depending on circumstances. One of the things to consider, is that if everyone knows the guy does it, why hasnt anyone else done something about it already.

[YonexMan]

Yep. It's amazing how friendships can be "lost" over a game of golf.

Several years back, my son and I were playing comp at one of the local clubs. The 2 other players in the group - one was a good friend of mine that I had known for years. My mate had been playing golf for several years whilst, my son and I had only been playing for 2 years. But it was apparent that my friend hated the fact that my son was beating him by a fair margin.

My son had tee'd his ball up and was taking a practice swing - away from the ball - about 2 feet away and had not addressed the ball.

During his second practice swing, the tee tilted over (soft ground) and then ball fell off. Straight away my friend says that was a stroke and that he could not re-tee and had to play the ball as it lies on the ground as his second shot.

I disagreed as did the 4th person in our group. My son had not addressed the ball and was taking a practice swing several feet away from the ball.

Discussion ensued.. so I phoned the Pro-shop. Pro said that as my son had not addressed the ball and it was only a practice swing - no where near the ball, then he could re-tee without penalty.

well.. for the rest of the game - my mate never said a word to anyone, walked off the course, refusing to sign or submit a card and has never talked to me since and refuses to acknowledge me even if we walk by each other in the street or shops in town.

Not really a case of cheating - but as they say - golf seems to bring out the true character of a person...

[WBennett]

Is his home track a hard course?
SNIP
That or hes just an outright handicap cheater?

Slope adjusts for relative difficulty. I go with Option B

Who ALWAYS plays better away from home?

[Hatchman]

Slope adjusts for relative difficulty. I go with Option B

Who ALWAYS plays better away from home?

That's the theory of the slope system but it doesn't work like that in reality.
I've played many a course that has slope ratings with 1-2+- of my home course which doesn't change the playing handicap unless on near the bump line that are easily 2-3 shots harder to play for me than my home course.

Do you have a Golflink number for the farmer to have a look at?

[wazamac]

Yep. It's amazing how friendships can be "lost" over a game of golf.

Several years back, my son and I were playing comp at one of the local clubs. The 2 other players in the group - one was a good friend of mine that I had known for years. My mate had been playing golf for several years whilst, my son and I had only been playing for 2 years. But it was apparent that my friend hated the fact that my son was beating him by a fair margin.

My son had tee'd his ball up and was taking a practice swing - away from the ball - about 2 feet away and had not addressed the ball.

During his second practice swing, the tee tilted over (soft ground) and then ball fell off. Straight away my friend says that was a stroke and that he could not re-tee and had to play the ball as it lies on the ground as his second shot.

I disagreed as did the 4th person in our group. My son had not addressed the ball and was taking a practice swing several feet away from the ball.

Discussion ensued.. so I phoned the Pro-shop. Pro said that as my son had not addressed the ball and it was only a practice swing - no where near the ball, then he could re-tee without penalty.

well.. for the rest of the game - my mate never said a word to anyone, walked off the course, refusing to sign or submit a card and has never talked to me since and refuses to acknowledge me even if we walk by each other in the street or shops in town.

Not really a case of cheating - but as they say - golf seems to bring out the true character of a person...

Correct call. Ball is not yet in play.Had a simalar incident couple of months ago with a playing partner. We didn't know so imposed the penalty and when we got back in and asked the question, changed the cards and then signed.

[LeftyHoges]

Yep. It's amazing how friendships can be "lost" over a game of golf.

Several years back, my son and I were playing comp at one of the local clubs. The 2 other players in the group - one was a good friend of mine that I had known for years. My mate had been playing golf for several years whilst, my son and I had only been playing for 2 years. But it was apparent that my friend hated the fact that my son was beating him by a fair margin.

My son had tee'd his ball up and was taking a practice swing - away from the ball - about 2 feet away and had not addressed the ball.

During his second practice swing, the tee tilted over (soft ground) and then ball fell off. Straight away my friend says that was a stroke and that he could not re-tee and had to play the ball as it lies on the ground as his second shot.

I disagreed as did the 4th person in our group. My son had not addressed the ball and was taking a practice swing several feet away from the ball.

Discussion ensued.. so I phoned the Pro-shop. Pro said that as my son had not addressed the ball and it was only a practice swing - no where near the ball, then he could re-tee without penalty.

well.. for the rest of the game - my mate never said a word to anyone, walked off the course, refusing to sign or submit a card and has never talked to me since and refuses to acknowledge me even if we walk by each other in the street or shops in town.

Not really a case of cheating - but as they say - golf seems to bring out the true character of a person...

I lost my first ever golf comp I entered because of this rule (or my and playing partners lack of knowledge of it). Not bitter at all about it. :lol:

[YonexMan]

I originally didn't know about this rule either. But a few weeks before the incident involving my son, I was playing at another course with 2 A-Graders at the time and same thing happened to me. I took a practice swing that was 3 feet at least, away from the ball and the ball fell off the tee. I just walked over to then get a fairway wood - thinking I wasn't allowed to re-tee and then both the A-Graders I was playing the comp said no. I could re-tee without penalty as I had not addressed the ball. They said it would be a different story if I was out on the fairway as the ball is then in play.

The biggest issue we have at my club is the lack of knowledge in regards to the local rules.

we have vertical wooden slats in some of the bunkers at the club and some bunkers the vertical wall is in fact a brick wall.

Local rule for those bunkers is that - if it is determined that if you take a proper swing at the ball (in the bunker) and there is a high likelihood of hitting the wood or brick walls with the club, you are permitted to mark lift and drop the ball further back from the original spot, still in the bunker without penalty. This is for the safety of the golfer as well as to not damage equipment.

I've had a few comp games where I've talked about the local rule as I happened to get into the situation where it was needed and then needed to phone the Pro Shop before full blown arguments and accusations were made

[Coopers Country]

Even if you have addressed the ball , you have to have intended to hit the ball don't you ? Isn't this how Kevin Na was getting away with air swings above the ball?
It is a rule we all should know as it is a very common occurance , maybe we should have a rule of the week on OzGolf as there are some very knowledgeable people on rules on here ?

[wazamac]

I wish we had a local rule for the ironstone we have in patches in the rough. It seems every time my ball will be sitting on the rocks and a foot all around will be grass.
Always end up topping the ball cause I'm concious of gouging the club.

[YonexMan]

I wish we had a local rule for the ironstone we have in patches in the rough. It seems every time my ball will be sitting on the rocks and a foot all around will be grass.
Always end up topping the ball cause I'm concious of gouging the club.

strange you don't have a rule for that. Longyard GC has a rule for that and so does Quirindi GC where I have played as well. But, strangely - last week, my son and I drove to Gunnedah for him to have a practice round there and we met up with the previous Club Pro, Shane. During the practice round we had with him, he mentioned that Gunnedah GC does not allow a lift and drop/place local rule if you are on rocks. They apparently talked about it, but never did anything about it.

I can understand what you mean about topping the ball. I like my mizuno irons to stay the way they are and not have gouges taken out of them.

Which is why I try to avoid the bunkers at the Longyard GC as they are filled with small pieces of shale rock. I've already put a nice gouge in a mizuno wedge that was only a few months old..

[Coopers Country]

You don't need a local rule for that one wazza , you can get rock relief under the rules of golf , I might be wrong though

[milo-man20]

I had a situation on the weekend where i had addressed my putt and the ball moved without me touching the ball due to the green coring (it rolled into a core hole).

After consultation, we came to the decision that even though i had addressed the ball it was obvious that i did not cause the ball to move and i should play it from it's new position without penalty.

Anyone else have a similar situation/thoughts?

[backintheswing]

I had a situation on the weekend where i had addressed my putt and the ball moved without me touching the ball due to the green coring (it rolled into a core hole).

After consultation, we came to the decision that even though i had addressed the ball it was obvious that i did not cause the ball to move and i should play it from it's new position without penalty.

Anyone else have a similar situation/thoughts?

Totally wrong decision. If you have addressed the ball and grounded the putter, and then the ball moved, there is really no other reason for it moving other than you caused it. You must replace it to the original position and incur a one shot penalty. If you do not replace it, it is a breach of rule 18 and a 2 shot penalty is incurred.

[milo-man20]

Nah they have changed the rule to read that if the player is deemed not to have caused the ball to move, i.e. wind, then there is no penalty and the player plays the ball from the new position.

[jimandr]

This little discussion should be in the Rules thread, but it doesn't matter.

You might all be wrong.

Cored greens (usually the freshly cored variety) may be covered by a local rule. Committees are able to make a rule that permits you to move a ball out of a core hole. Surely that same local rule would apply to a ball that falls into a core hole after being at rest.

Assuming that local rule was in place, then the outcome is still a no penalty, but you would have to replace the ball.

[backintheswing]

This little discussion should be in the Rules thread, but it doesn't matter.

You might all be wrong.

Cored greens (usually the freshly cored variety) may be covered by a local rule. Committees are able to make a rule that permits you to move a ball out of a core hole. Surely that same local rule would apply to a ball that falls into a core hole after being at rest.

Assuming that local rule was in place, then the outcome is still a no penalty, but you would have to replace the ball.

Yes it should be moved to the golf rules thread. As a mod, can you do that please Jim.

I really want to get opinions on not replacing the ball, as as far as I know, it must be replaced in most circumstances.

Once you have moved it Jim I will post again, thanks.

[3Puttpete]

Even if you have addressed the ball , you have to have intended to hit the ball don't you ? Isn't this how Kevin Na was getting away with air swings above the ball?
It is a rule we all should know as it is a very common occurance , maybe we should have a rule of the week on OzGolf as there are some very knowledgeable people on rules on here ?

Correct. Players often address the ball too closely and knock the ball off the tee.

The rule here is somebody has to say "one" before its re-teed.

[highballin]

Totally wrong decision. If you have addressed the ball and grounded the putter, and then the ball moved, there is really no other reason for it moving other than you caused it. You must replace it to the original position and incur a one shot penalty. If you do not replace it, it is a breach of rule 18 and a 2 shot penalty is incurred.

http://www.englandgolf.org/page.aspx?sitesectionid=594

[Steve57]

http://www.englandgolf.org/page.aspx?sitesectionid=594
There is no longer a Rule 18-2b.
See the Ask the Rules guru thread.

[LeftyHoges]

Correct. Players often address the ball too closely and knock the ball off the tee.

The rule here is somebody has to say "one" before its re-teed.

I say it ironically now.

But they still laugh.

No one gets me.

[3Puttpete]

I say it ironically now.

But they still laugh.

No one gets me.

They laugh because you're nowhere near a golf course

[LeftyHoges]

They laugh because you're nowhere near a golf course

Ha ha! Just some random dude walking down the street yelling "ONE!" at everyone.

I like it.

[goughy]

I hope you also point down at their imaginary ball when you call out...

[markTHEblake]

thinking I wasn't allowed to re-tee and then both the A-Graders I was playing the comp said no. I could re-tee without penalty as I had not addressed the ball. They said it would be a different story if I was out on the fairway as the ball is then in play.


correct that there is no penalty, but incorrect explanation, it mattered ZERO that you had not addressed the ball. There is no penalty because you have not made a Stroke, AND the ball is not in Play.
http://www.randa.org/Rules-of-Golf/MainRules/11-Teeing-Ground/SubRules/3-Ball-Falling-off-Tee
http://www.randa.org/RulesEquipment/Rules/Rules-Of-Golf-Definitions/#stroke




Nah they have changed the rule to read that if the player is deemed not to have caused the ball to move, i.e. wind, then there is no penalty and the player plays the ball from the new position.
You are right, but the benefit of doubt always goes against the player. If there is no conclusive evidence what moved the ball, the player will be penalised.
The reason they changed the rule, because under the old definition, a player can only address the ball once. even if he steps away, goes to line up the putt again and then wind blows and moves the he was still penalised because he had already addressed the ball. After the rule change, he would not be penalised in that instance.

There is pretty much no way a referee will let a player off if the club was grounded and he has addressed the ball. Refer Dustin Johnson. he was never going to get off that.
> not my opinion, this is explanation from state level referee.

[Slothman]

Whoops...removed to rules thread.