Sub 4 hour round

[Fishman Dan]

My club has had enough with slow golf.

When we paid up on Saturday they handed out an 'expected time per hole' sheet, with the 18th to be completed in 4 hours. Fall 1 hole behind and you will be penalised a stroke, 2 strokes for a second warning, and DQ for any subsequent. They even had an old bloke marshalling.

Every time they announced the next group over the PA, they advised to keep up with the group in front or be penalised.

We finished in 3 hours 50!

Anyone elses club gone to these lengths? Seemed to work for us, although it was just a stableford round. I can see problems though:

- we didn't get a single call up on a Par 3 (board members in the group in front too!)
- all it takes is one ball lost under leaves and a 5 minute search (allowable in the rules!)
- Playing partners will become reluctant to help you find your ball in case you fall behind.

[Andrew]

At Newcastle GC we don’t have a real problem with slow play as the fields for comp days are not ‘jam packed’ & most of the tee boxes are close to the previous green.

Two things they insist on though:
1) In Par & Stableford competitions, only the player should search for the ball. The others should play on. (Exact wording from club programme)
2) Buggies should be walked across greens, not around them.

[connico]

but you cant make players lose a stroke if you fall behind, its an empty threat right?

[Choppa]

2) Buggies should be walked across greens, not around them.

Hang on a minute. I thought this was a cardinal sin?

[Fishman Dan]

Choppa - on our greens they'd leave tram-tracks, on harder greens it might not make any difference. Newcastle is a quality track so i'm guessing they wouldn't allow it if they couldn't cope.

Obviously where possible you want to leave your gear nearer the exit point for that hole.

[Grunt]

but you cant make players lose a stroke if you fall behind, its an empty threat right?

I am pretty sure if they put it in a local rule they can do what they like.

[Choppa]

Wow, I started playing when I was 10, and I don't think any "rule" of golf is any more ingrained in me, than is the one that says don't take your buggy onto the green. Isn't it strange what you remember the most.

[imoveableobstruction]

Wow, I started playing when I was 10, and I don't think any "rule" of golf is any more ingrained in me, than is the one that says don't take your buggy onto the green. Isn't it strange what you remember the most.

Chop , would you want to putt over one of my 110kg footprints or over a track made by my 20kg buggie and bag?

[AndyP]

but you cant make players lose a stroke if you fall behind, its an empty threat right?
No, pros get nabbed for it. A couple of ladies got penalised in the Aust Ladies Masters at Palm Meadows recently.

[Choppa]

Chop , would you want to putt over one of my 110kg footprints or over a track made by my 20kg buggie and bag?

Yeah, I am not saying I think it should be a rule of golf, I just think it's funny what you remember from when you first started playing when you don't think about it or question it. Especially when I look back at the goat track that I used to play.:???:

Another one is that you have to shout the bar if you wear you hat into the clubhouse. I learnt all the most important rules of golf as a junior.:)

[shazza_rs]

No, pros get nabbed for it. A couple of ladies got penalised in the Aust Ladies Masters at Palm Meadows recently.

don't you mean royal pines?

[AndyP]

don't you mean royal pines?
Sure do. Fortunately it doesn't affect the point of what I was saying.

[Coffs_Hacker]

I played recently at mollymook hills where they had a bundy clock to stamp your card after the game, anyone taking over 4.5 hrs gets moved to the back of the field when they want to play next.

[Courty]

My club has had enough with slow golf.

When we paid up on Saturday they handed out an 'expected time per hole' sheet, with the 18th to be completed in 4 hours. Fall 1 hole behind and you will be penalised a stroke, 2 strokes for a second warning, and DQ for any subsequent. They even had an old bloke marshalling.

Every time they announced the next group over the PA, they advised to keep up with the group in front or be penalised.

We finished in 3 hours 50!

Just curious Dan. How long is your course? At my course, under 4 hours for a 4-ball is near impossible. Even on a quiet day the best we could do is probably 4 1/2.

[andylo]

My club has had enough with slow golf.

When we paid up on Saturday they handed out an 'expected time per hole' sheet, with the 18th to be completed in 4 hours. Fall 1 hole behind and you will be penalised a stroke, 2 strokes for a second warning, and DQ for any subsequent. They even had an old bloke marshalling.

Every time they announced the next group over the PA, they advised to keep up with the group in front or be penalised.

We finished in 3 hours 50!

Anyone elses club gone to these lengths? Seemed to work for us, although it was just a stableford round. I can see problems though:

- we didn't get a single call up on a Par 3 (board members in the group in front too!)
- all it takes is one ball lost under leaves and a 5 minute search (allowable in the rules!)
- Playing partners will become reluctant to help you find your ball in case you fall behind.


Fishy can you get your club mail to mine regrading on what they do? I am sick of those 5-6 hrs comp round!

[Ona]

played in the midweek on Tuesday, the group infront of us were just over two holes behind by rounds end. never even considered calling us thru. Not a posh club so no marshall, woulda been nice to have some way to penalise the slow ****

[Courty]

Sory to go off on a tangent here, but if a penalty is assessed for slow play or some such thing, how is it recorded on the card? Do you just add it to the score for the current hole? Maybe they should follow the cricket and add a 'sundries' box. ;)

[Bruce]

Who gets penalised? The whole group? I'm interested in the Newcastle thing. If the guy looking for his ball gets abandoned by his playing partners he is likely to be slower to find it as he only has 1 set of eyes searching and his mates can't move on till he is finished. How does that speed things up? It actually increases the likelihood that he is gunna have to walk back and reload wasting more time. Or is that not how it ends up? Does Newcastle not have very penal rough?

How unpopular would you be if it was your lost ball that cost the whole group a shot each. And then what if you had 3 separate lost ball incidents in a group to different players. Player 1 generates the 1st penalty, player 2 the second and then player 3 ends up getting the group a DQ. That doesn't seem right to me.

[Courty]

Who gets penalised? The whole group?

I'm not 100% on this, but I understand it's the lowest marker in the group who cops the penalty. He (or she) is the one responsible for keeping the group moving.

[Fishman Dan]

How unpopular would you be if it was your lost ball that cost the whole group a shot each. And then what if you had 3 separate lost ball incidents in a group to different players. Player 1 generates the 1st penalty, player 2 the second and then player 3 ends up getting the group a DQ. That doesn't seem right to me.

Precisely the point Bruce. My take is that while on the course, you assist your playing partners find their ball, giving them every chance to score the best they can on the day - and enjoy their time on the course.

From my understanding, a penalty incurred would be for the entire group, so therefore if a ball cannot be found, it is in the entire groups interest to find it!

Perhaps scare tactics and may have worked last weekend, but if they keep up the threats someone is going to get ping'd soon and it's not going to be pretty. There are enough young turds at my course who never assist their partners already.

Courty - I guess 4 hours works on my course because we are a Par 65, but i think the concept is the same anywhere - it shouldn't take 5 hours for a round of golf.

[Courty]

Courty - I guess 4 hours works on my course because we are a Par 65, but i think the concept is the same anywhere - it shouldn't take 5 hours for a round of golf.

I agree. 5 hours is too much on any course, although it's far too common. On a par 65 it might be realistic, but on a par 72 course, I think 4 hours is unreasonable.

[Andrew]

Hang on a minute. I thought this was a cardinal sin?

Choppa,

Most of the Sandbelt courses in Melbourne insist on players walking their buggies across greens. I’ve even heard of a young golfer (at Metro, I believe) getting in trouble from an older member for walking around, instead of across a green. New South Wales GC allow this as well.

It actually makes sense, as long as the course is set up correctly. If the course is maintained ‘firm & fast’, then it is the best thing to do. Think about how many courses you play that have ‘patchy’ areas around the greens where players walk. Walking across the green spreads out some of that wear & normal wide wheel buggies aren’t heavy enough to damage a firm green.

I weigh almost 120kg, so my feet do more damage than a buggy would. I actually carry & my bag weighs about 15kg. When I walk across a green with my bag on my back there is 135kg of weight being transferred through my feet, yet many courses that are poorly set up don’t want buggies wheeled across the green. Quite silly, really.

It is rarely done on clay courses, because generally the greens are maintained much too soft. Hence, most clay courses suffer from too much wear immediately around the greens. Castle Hill is the only clay based course that allows people to walk across the greens with their buggies that I’m aware of. I’m sure there are more.

[Choppa]

So what's the rule then. Do you walk across the green unless told otherwise, or do you walk around it unless told otherwise?

[Courty]

So what's the rule then. Do you walk across the green unless told otherwise, or do you walk around it unless told otherwise?

Check the local rules (or ask at the pro shop) if you're unsure.

[Iain]

I don't walk across the middle of a green with my buggy, but I'll walk across either side. Most buggy's that people use, have the wide wheel's, so I can't imagine them leaving track marks across any greens.....

[Andrew]

So what's the rule then. Do you walk across the green unless told otherwise, or do you walk around it unless told otherwise?

Courty is right. Ask if you are unsure.

90% of courses will want you to walk around the green. That's why Newcastle has walking across greens as a local rule, because most people aren't use to it. Especially in NSW.

A majority of the courses I've played in Scotland prefer you to walk across greens. Of course, they are 'firm & fast' sand based courses.

[markTHEblake]

Emerald Lakes implemented a few changes last year to cope with 4.5 to 4.75 hour rounds.
made the gap between groups one minute longer. and still a 2 tee start but the front 9 has a 2 hour block and the back 9 has only 1.75 hrs.

the change meant most groups were finishing in 4 hrs
on wed i played what i thought was a slow round becuase we were not keeping up, and it took 4hrs 10min

[BrisVegas]

I weigh almost 120kg, so my feet do more damage than a buggy would.

This has made my night. Thanks Andrew, I feel skinnier already. :-D

[Andrew]

This has made my night. Thanks Andrew, I feel skinnier already. :-D

I'm not sure whether to take that as a compliment for making you feel good, or an insult for being called fat. Don't forget, I'm 8 foot 7 inches tall.;)

Before I started carrying my bag, I was speaking to this guy that carried. He reckoned that the bag started to get heavy towards the end of the round, so he never carried more than 6 golf balls in his bag, because he thought it made a difference. He looked about 70kg. I figured a 15kg bag would make a bigger difference to a 70kg guy than it would to a 120kg guy, so I thought I would make the change.

That was over a year ago & I find carrying takes far less effort than pulling a buggy.

[McMw]

social golf, 18 holes, 4 balls - I expect to get around in 4 to 4.15 hours...
I did get around in 4.45 couple of weeks ago - that's becoz of ONE GUY in the group infront...

played the comp yesterday - I was suprised to see we finished in 5 hours...
as a group, we weren't playing slow as we kept up with the group infront, and they were keeping up with the group infront of them...

we don't have a system here during the normal comps, but there is a system in place for the Opens...

[CobraSS]

I'm not 100% on this, but I understand it's the lowest marker in the group who cops the penalty. He (or she) is the one responsible for keeping the group moving.


no the whole group gets penalised, had to do it last weekend in fact, in the first rnd of the club champs at Woodford one group in the morning field fell 2 and half holes behind holding up play and causing the groups of the afternoon field from the 10th (two tee start) to have their tee times delayed by 20-25 minutes. We the match committee pinged all 4 players with a 2 shot penalty.

[AndyP]

We the match committee pinged all 4 players with a 2 shot penalty.
So where do they mark that on their card, Cobra? On the hole where you told them?

[amanda]

At New Brighton in the Wed ladies comp they regularly play 3hr 50-4hr rounds on a par 73.

Bankstown GC and Bayview GC have the bundy clock system - though I don't know if anyone actually checks the times stamped on the card.

As for looking for a lost ball - can't you call the group behind through while you're looking?

[Fishman Dan]

Admanda - how many starters in a Wednesday comp? Remembering on Saturday's there can be 120+ starters, and pretty much all groups of 4.

Playing partners may be reluctant to call through. As per previous comments, most of them tend to move off towards their own ball. I had a ball 'disappear' on a neighbouring fairway last weekend. One bloke gave a cursory glance, but apart from that i searched for my ball and in the end gave it up.

[amanda]

3 groups of 4 :)

But hey - in a huge field on Sunday, playing in a group of 4 we got around in 4 hrs 15 min :) (and we were playing in a stroke event)

[CobraSS]

So where do they mark that on their card, Cobra? On the hole where you told them?


just added it to their total score for the first rnd of the champs, they weren't present when we decided to penalise them, they were informed writting the following week.

[amanda]

but technically didn't they sign a score-card that was incorrect resulting in a DQ?

[CobraSS]

no they weren't aware they had incurred a penalty until after they had submitted their cards.

[Grunt]

I had a 3 hour round yesterday @ Botany.

[le_quiet_uno]

In a private golf course, things like 5 - 6 hour round of golf will never happen. As I played with a couple friend at Castle Hill GC, we managed to finish 18 holes in 3 hours and still have time to grab a bit and drinks.

Where as at Gordon GC, you will have to be extremely lucky to finish a round of 18 under 4 and half hours. In the past, we regularly getting 5 or 5 and half round but things have got better in the last few weeks. We have got club pros going around and get people to move on, especially the publics in front of members. I hope that we can crack the sub 4 and half hour round there sometime soon! :)

That's me 2 cents

[Fishman Dan]

Uh oh. You're a Gordon member too?! :D

As per the first post, it did speed up play the first week. Last weekend we had a group of 3 slowing us up, and Peter came around and gave them a razz on the 11th after they had lost the tee.

Note to those posting about mid-week rounds - i guess the focus of this was the busiest day on your course, and in a comp round. So we're talking anywhere from 60-120+ starters.

[le_quiet_uno]

Sure am Dan and proud of it too! LOL..

I must say Peter is doing a good job at getting everyone moving. He has also keep a constant reminder to everyone in the comp to keep up with the group in front to keep the constant flow. It's probably fine on a Saturday.

However, the public gets to go before the members and a lot of times when I play Sunday shot-gun start, we often caught up with the people in front of us after like 5 holes.. then it starts to drag on.. :S