Clubs on ebay - who decides fake or not?

[dazza99]

Hey guys. Not sure If this Is the right thread or not to ask, but seeing as the ebay bargains thread is here, I'll give it a go.

When you buy (or sell) a set of irons on Ebay, if there is a dispute about authenticity of clubs, who decides if they are fake or genuine?

Is it up to the buyer to prove they are fake, the seller to prove they are genuine or someone to arbiter?

Is it just buyer beware? Or maybe "the buyer is always right" regardless?

In my case, there is no issue because it's all resolved amicably, but I wonder if one party holds firm to their claim and the other doesn't agree, what would ebay do? Always come down on side of buyer, or seller or what?

Interested to hear of any ebay disputes you've heard of.

(Btw - private ebay purchases, not ebay shops or dodgy online websites)

[Dotty]

Send photos to Titleist, Ping, Callaway, etc.

They are very protective of their intellectual property and don't hold back in coming down heavy on the counterfeiters.

[jezaa]

For titleist you can send to their office in Melbourne and they will tell you right away

[pt73]

Have a look in the Deal or No Deal subforum on Golfwrx for real instances but my gut feel is they'll take the buyer's word and the seller will have the job of proving they're not fake.

[keymaster]

I had an issue with fake clubs I bought off ebay last year.

The short version of the story is...
- Bought some Mizuno irons off ebay, posted to me from QLD
- I suspected they were fake. Club stamping seemed a bit off. Took them to the House of Chappy. Adjusting the loft/lie left marks on the club(which shouldn't have been the case for forged irons)
- Contacted the seller, who claimed they were real. But could not provide any evidence. Said he'll refund me my money if I sent him the clubs back first.
- I then raised a Paypal dispute for buying a fake item
- Paypal assessed the claim. Froze the seller's account. Told me to send the clubs back. Paypal refunded me from the seller's account.


From what i gather, Paypal will side with the buyer 90% of the time. Especially if seller can't provide any evidence.

I believe you have 90 days to make a claim, and will be covered by Paypal buyer's protection, as long as you didn't send the money as "family and friends"

Hope that helps.

[dazza99]

Have a look in the Deal or No Deal subforum on Golfwrx for real instances but my gut feel is they'll take the buyer's word and the seller will have the job of proving they're not fake.

I'll take a look there pt thanks. And your answer is more what I'm looking at ie. buyers and sellers. I've no issue where I need to prove a fake or anything. But was just wondering who the burden of proof falls to. Say a person sells (not buys) clubs that they "know" to be genuine (but no document to prove for example) only for the buyer to cry "fake" and want money back. I suppose they'd just have to agree, get clubs back, pay refund and move on?

[jocker]

An email back from manufacturer would be sufficient proof I imagine.

[pt73]

Keymaster's reply was spot on, eBay/Paypal will side with the buyer in almost every case.

I've read stuff on GolfWRX where the seller provided evidence to Paypal that the items weren't fake and they still sided with the buyer.

The common thread there is that it's easier to allow a return and just move on as it's very hard to have -ve feedback removed and it's most likely seller will lose the battle anyway.

[dazza99]

Yeah, I hadn't seen keymasters reply - he posted same time as me.

All good info guys. Thanks. Interesting about seller providing proof but still they sided with buyer.
Nice to know when shopping on ebay it's "seller beware" rather than "buyer beware" :)

[keymaster]

The only other thing to suggest is, always raise the dispute with Paypal. Even know eBay have some kinda protection policy. PayPal are the ones that control the money, so makes sense to dispute with them....

[Oldplayer]

I raised a paypal dispute for some fake pro v1's. It was quite a while ago but I was required to get an expert opinion. Got a document from my local green grass pro that they were fake. That was good enough for paypal and my money was refunded. The whole process took a bit of time and some back and forth correspondence. Interestingly paypal required that I destroy the fake pills. They didn't specify how.

[markTHEblake]

Adjusting the loft/lie left marks on the club(which shouldn't have been the case for forged irons)

marks on the club from loft/lie machines is normal is not an indicator of fakes.

[goughy]

We do a lot of purchasing on eBay and have had a number of disputes. Most of the time it's just cheap stuff from Asia (phone cases etc) where the item has turned up broken or the wrong one sent. Most of the time they sort it out themselves, but sometimes they just ignore you do a PayPal dispute raised and most of the time they ignore that too so the refund is made.

But had one earlier this year on a bigger ticket item, a weather station thing, one of the more known brands, and from an Aussie seller. Thing just didn't work, devices wouldn't talk to each other. Seller wouldn't respond so dispute with PayPal raised. They also ignored PayPal, so was found in our favour due to them not responding to PayPal, the few hundred was refunded to us but also PayPal specifically said to us that due to their non response we do not need to return the item to them. No further action was required by us.

It's still sitting half boxed up by the back door.

[braddles]

marks on the club from loft/lie machines is normal is not an indicator of fakes.

I was thinking the same thing. It is possible to avoid marks if you are careful and have a decent LL machine.

[keymaster]

I was thinking the same thing. It is possible to avoid marks if you are careful and have a decent LL machine.

Yeah, these weren't normal marks. They kinda looked like stress marks. Sorta like when you crinkle up aluminium foil. But all good anyways, got my refund. Never dealing with that guy again.