Long Rant: Has club technology really improved in the last 10 years?

[sfdoddsy]

I've been a member of a club for more than 25 years, so I take my golf semi-seriously.

I also have a touch of OCD.

So about ten years ago, when forums such as this first became popular and flipping on eBay became feasible, I dove in and for a year or so hoed compulsively. After numerous tryouts, I ended up with a bag that seemed to suit - TM R7 Superquad, Japanese version Callaway Great Big Bertha Irons, Adams Boxer hybrids, Ping iWedges, Bettinardi putter.

Cool at the time.

Then, for various reasons, I started to play less and less, and then a child came and I didn't play at all for four years. My Golflink Top 20 still has scores from 2008.

At the end of last year, I was granted permission to play again.

My first round back I shot my old handicap with my old clubs. So much for practice.

But naturally I decided that wasn't good enough. Surely there had been improvements in technology in ten years.

Spurred on once again by sites like this and the internet and the promise of fitting and launch monitors, I once again dove in.

I started with the driver. I went through quite a few, and quite a few more shafts before deciding the Callaway GBB was IT. Launch monitor sessions in golf shops and even a full on Trackman fitting at Pure Form gave me numbers to believe in.

Then I took aim at my irons. My JDM GBBs aren't full-on SGI clubs like their namesakes here, but I was entranced by the promise of face slots, cup faces, cavities, flexy things and tried Callaway XR Pros, XRs, Apex, Apex CF16, TM RS1 & 2, Srixon Z545, Wilson C200, Ping G30 and more.

The XR/XR Pro seemed just the ticket. Very long. Very forgiving. Not too bulky.

I hit the long irons so well I got rid of my hybrids. I was smug about carrying a 4 iron again. Technology rocked!

Then I took a set of Adams CMB forged 'better player' irons as a part-trade on a putter with a member here.

To be honest, I was just going flip them since (even though irons are the best part of my game) there was no way I was good enough to game such beasts.

To my surprise, I hit them very well. Good strikes were lovely, bad strikes were less so.

But I scurried back to my XRs because they were modern and forgiving and what we are supposed to play now.

Until I noticed that whilst good strikes with the XRs were also lovely (if less orgasmic), bad strikes were no better than bad strikes with the Adams.

Then I noticed that (after allowing for loft differences) the XRs actuallly went no further than the Adams. In fact, all of the clubs I tried (including my old GBBs) were about the same length for a given loft and all punished me the same for mishits.

Those with less offset were straighter (I'm a drawer), and the Adams looked and felt better, but the latest technology has made bugger-all difference to what happens on course.

So I took another look at the driver I thought was the new bees knees.

In reality, the GBB is no longer than the R7 was. But I'm in my mid-fifties and way out of shape so shouldn't really expect to hit as long as I used to. I was hoping technology might reverse the depredations of age, but not so.

I'm hitting lots of fairways so I'd like to think it is straighter, but I also recall periods where I couldn't miss with the R7 and its predecessors.

The recommended shaft and setting from Pureform makes zero difference on the course.

Then, to top off my skepticism, I started mucking around with fairway woods and hybrids. I've bought and played the latest and greatest TM, Callaway, Adams, and Cleveland clubs and been convinced each was a major improvement and the ticket to getting on in two on par fives, safely laying up on par fours that bend right, and generally getting back to single figures.

Until I pulled my old Adams Pro Gold from 2009 one last time before extracting its shaft and proceeded to hit it just as long and just as straight (actually, even straighter) as the newcomers.

So I'm flummoxed.

The latest driver is no longer and only marginally more accurate than my ancient (in golf years) driver.

The latest irons are no longer (allowing for modern lofts) and no more forgiving than either my old irons or a set of technology-free players irons (this could be because the CMBs are exceptional).

And the latest hybrid/fairways are neither longer nor straighter than a hybrid 12 generations old.

The only real improvement has been moving from my old blade Bettinardi to a mallet Ping putter. Although I did have six three putts yesterday so that is moot.

It could be that I just got lucky with my old clubs (and the Adams) and they suit me to a tee.

But I suspect not.

Fortunately, I buy everything used and have been able to sell the various clubs I've tried at no loss, but I'd be mighty peeved if I'd paid retail and got the results I have.

Sorry about the long rant, but has anyone had similar results?

Are we all deluded?

The really sad thing is that in spite of all the above, I have a new set of Mizunos on the way.

I'm sure they'll be the exception that proves the rule.

:)

[3Puttpete]

Why did you pick the XR/pro irons over the other new irons you tried?

[3oneday]

I reached this point too of late.

[Jazz18]

Yes, but whether or not it leads to better results is debatable.

[mrbluu]

I was about to report your thread for being un-OzGolf, but then u said u got new stuff replacing stuff that works so all is good!!! [emoji12]

[Coldtopper]

Do you west bigger sized pants that sit higher near your belly button then don't worry because you're getting older!

[Dotty]

The really sad thing is that in spite of all the above, I have a new set of Mizunos on the way.
And you'll end up doing what I did ... Swapped them for a set of Ping Zing 2.

[virge666]

in answer to the question - yeah they have improved. Quite a bit in 20 years. They are a lot lighter, more forgiving and much higher launching. Wedges are also miles better than they use to be.

What has really changed though is the ball... the ball makes the game so much easier now. Everyone seems to forget that when testing old clubs.

That being said, I play 10 year old Taylor irons, 6 year old R11s and wedges, 5 year old 4 wood. Skill overrides the clubs all day long.

[solarbear]

Actually I suspect clubs have gotten too light and too long and many clubs from 2005 are as good or better than todays when it comes to actually playing a round with them.

[jimandr]

I'm going to ask a supplementary question that is hinted at in sf's opening post.

Is there a declining swing speed point where technology has a lesser effect?

As a slow swing speed guy, I've never got much out of technology improvements, except some gain in height with irons compared to their loft. I recall Jason Day claiming he got an extra 10 out of his M1, but would I get the same?

I am fully aware that for some posters on this site it is the journey that is the fun part, and for those people, they will never change. It will be a new set every three months for the rest of their golfing lives. But I do wonder about the wisdom of new drivers every month when the CoR (or whatever the important stat is) is restricted.

My answer to sfdoddsy, as a non-believer, is that if you get enjoyment out of experimenting, then do it, but if the result is the most important thing, the cost and effort isn't worth it.

[oldracer]

I think the advancement in cavity back design, moi....cg etc etc has come a long way but that along with shaft and ball development would make a significant advantage over the older designs. Having only played again for the last 2 n a bit years, my current clubs are significantly better, IMO only, than the Callaway X18's I started with or the Ping i5's that quickly followed them. My game will probably not develop to where it could because of my predilection for clubs that I probably shouldn't play but dang they look good!!!!

[Oldplayer]

Nice post. Well argued and I also happen to agree with you. I have done my fair share of hoing/experimenting also and found that a lot of the modern claims of tech improvement are more about marketing and only incremental at best.
Also agree with Virge that the modern ball has made the game easier to play. In talking irons I am a big fan of the period from the late '90's to mid 2000's. The design and build quality was really excellent in this period. So many great sets made.
Drivers, fairways and hybrids have become a little more user friendly for players who struggle to hit the ball with any real consistency, but to better players they can be detrimental. As has been said, off the rack many are too light and launch too high, especially for higher spin players.
In other words a fairly decent player can play just as well with a bag full of clubs a decade or two old. In fact as you have found many can play better.

[Jerrymoo]

Is there a declining swing speed point where technology has a lesser effect?

I would say so, yes.

I see this with my Dad, and some of the older members at my club... if you don't have the swing speed, then nothing changes.

[dowdsy]

I game pretty much what you have GBB driver xr pro irons and also have a set of mp53s that I have hardly used and a full set of cgb max r7s, I am 50 and since buying my new GBB I have never driven the ball further in my life, I took my old r7 up the range the other day and could not get the same length from that, hit it well but guessing the shaft letting that club down. I would have to agree with you on the irons though, I can hit my mp53s just as far as my xr pros but mis hits are rubbish as are on the xr pro irons, are they just as rubbish? hard to tell with out a launch monitor. Seriously thinking of bagging the mizzys again. I think drivers fairway woods and hybrids have come a long way but at the end of the day its heaps of fun buying new golf junk just wish it was cheaper.

[Daves]

Is there a declining swing speed point where technology has a lesser effect?



Yes and No. It depends on the individual swing really. For example a super low spin driver won't be any help for you, but with the right loft combination, might help someone that hits their driver with lots of spin (balloons it). And the adjustable shaft position might help reduce their slice or launch angle problems.

On the other side of the fence, a lot of the modern techie irons, whilst adding distance through stronger lofts, have also added more forgiveness and higher launches, which will help most slower swingers.

The biggest difference for me is the greater tuneability of modern clubs, through adjustable hosels, shaft options, weight options etc.

As has been highlighted though, the biggest gain have been in the ball development, and those that use cheap rocks aren't really getting the benefit of the tech. That doesn't mean that you have to buy the super premo balls, but there is definitely a difference at the middle level and up.

[virge666]

As a slow swing speed guy, I've never got much out of technology improvements, except some gain in height with irons compared to their loft. I recall Jason Day claiming he got an extra 10 out of his M1, but would I get the same?


No, you never will. Either with JDay - because the claim is bullshit. Yes some shots are 10 yards more... but the average is much smaller. BUT - slow swing improvements are where the big gains are to be had. BUT you have to change your ball cause you need spin. An X18 vs a current GI hybrid or 5 iron are miles apart in performance. Add in low compression golf balls and you are much better of than you were. The super fast swingers also have had a massive improvement with Ball tech - if you are around the 115Mph swing speed the new ball helps enormously.

In the middle - it is a bit different - we have had a few good changes - I swing 108ish... and I notice a straighter ball flight and a bit longer.. but not much. Also I play old TM TP irons. sort of a blade / cav mix, a players cavilty if you like, and tech has not changed much here other than a bigger lighter blade.

Hybrids and wedges have improved enormously... 3 woods with bouncy faces, drivers with more forgiveness and better weight distribution.

Lighter and longer doesnt work - but Standard length and lighter does... truly.

My 2 cents.

[TheNuclearOne]

Without getting into the tech too much one place golf gear reigns supreme current day is in choices.

In driver shafts we have an endless choice. There are so many different profiles across so many different weights by so many different manufactuerers. Then we can throw in balance points, options have widens a bit there too. Not only is there something for everyone, there's multiple things for everyone.

Graphite shafts in irons have come a heckuva long way and give people so much extra choice (especially weight) and also the capacity to lessen or alleviate elbow drama's.

Wedges are now offered in so many different grinds to go along with the various lofts. There's also plenty of education to give us a kickstart as to what set makeup and grinds might suit us.

Putters, there's so many choices now, CB has come in, so many different mallets, grips etc.

Fitting has got so much better and it's compounded by having so many extra options.

I personally think some driver tech has come forward a bit, but there's just so may great drivers out there we are again just spoilt for choice.

I also think some of the iron tech has come forward a little. There's a touch more speed off the face of some models regardless of loft. Some companies have nutted out some damn good soles too.

In the fairway woods Tour Edge used to rule the roost for ballspeed (and Wishon but he didn't sell near as many units) but there now a scattering of models across some different companies that match TEE. Plenty of hybrids are hot too if that is what someone is after.

Balls are already discussed, and again endless choices.

There's some smoke and mirrors but there's some good gear too.



Choices abound.

[TourFit]

"I can hit my new BrandX 5 iron further than my old 4 iron :shock: It must be better, right?"

ME - "No, if you measure it for length and loft, you will basically have the same club"

But it's a club longer, it's a 5 iron, the other is a 4, it says so on the sole!"

ME - ](*,)

[Hard_Pan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOO5S4vxi0o

[sfdoddsy]

Why did you pick the XR/pro irons over the other new irons you tried?

I tried them because I've been a bit of a Callaway fan in the past, and they epitomise the latest technology.

Very nice clubs, but every iron I've tried (except the z545) has been a nice club.

It's the lack of difference that bugs me.

If you take the nebulous notion of 'feel' and my equally nebulous hangups over offset out of the equation, none of the irons I've tried performed any better or worse until you get to the long irons.

And even there, whilst the XRs were easier to hit than the CMBs, they were no longer. And the new Mizunos are just as easy (or hard) to hit and go just as long.

My club has a 192m par 3.

A few months back I hit a sweetly struck XR Pro 4 iron to the middle of it. I thought I rocked.

Yesterday I hit a sweetly struck Mizuno 3 iron to the middle of it. I thought I rocked again.

No difference (except the Mizuno felt/sounded/looked cooler).

In between I have sprayed numerous clubs left and short.

[sfdoddsy]

As a slow swing speed guy, I've never got much out of technology improvements, except some gain in height with irons compared to their loft. I recall Jason Day claiming he got an extra 10 out of his M1, but would I get the same?



If Jason Day got an extra 10 yards out of his M1, that means he was badly fit for his previous driver. Due to regulations and physics, there is a finite limit to how far a perfectly struck drive at the perfect angle with perfect spin will go.

http://www.golfwrx.com/62891/the-practical-facts-about-spin-and-shaft-design/

[Daves]

From my experience it is all about the fitting and builds. Get the club built to suit your swing, and it will perform noticeably better than any random selection new latest and greatest. There is more choice than ever on offer these days in this regard.

[3Puttpete]

If Jason Day got an extra 10 yards out of his M1, that means he was badly fit for his previous driver. Due to regulations and physics, there is a finite limit to how far a perfectly struck drive at the perfect angle with perfect spin will go. http://www.golfwrx.com/62891/the-practical-facts-about-spin-and-shaft-design/ or he swings faster

[Moe Norman]

I believe technology has improved in drivers, but I don't notice any improvement from any other modern gear.

I just ditched my G15/i15 combo set of irons to go back to i3's as I think I like them better.

I've never really fallen in love with a 3 wood for more than a few months, no matter how new or old the technology.

I use a very old putter.

BUT - my Ping G30 driver has single handedly changed my game completely. I'm not sure I'd even bother playing again if it weren't for this beautiful piece of technology!

[rick3003]

For me the biggest improvement is iron shafts.... I never thought I would stray from DG's. I have gained not only a full club in length but dispersion is much tighter since I switched to Modus.

[Johnny Canuck]

For me the biggest improvement is iron shafts.... I never thought I would stray from DG's. I have gained not only a full club in length but dispersion is much tighter since I switched to Modus.

I feel the same about my Steelfibers.

[Jazz18]

I believe technology has improved in drivers, but I don't notice any improvement from any other modern gear.

I just ditched my G15/i15 combo set of irons to go back to i3's as I think I like them better.

I've never really fallen in love with a 3 wood for more than a few months, no matter how new or old the technology.

I use a very old putter.

BUT - my Ping G30 driver has single handedly changed my game completely. I'm not sure I'd even bother playing again if it weren't for this beautiful piece of technology!

As with all clubs, new or old, it all comes down to personal preference I guess. I can't stand the G30 driver and wouldn't dream of putting it in my bag. It goes shorter and more wayward than any of the other drivers I've got, and that includes things like an R9 Supertri from years ago. Horses for courses I guess. Play what suits and that may not mean new!

[Hatchman]

I'm not convinced there has been big improvements in that time.
Rules on club manufacture and max COR doesn't leave much area for equipment manufactures to make great leaps.
The making of clubs out side those rules for non comp play maybe.

Last year my 3 best rounds for the whole calendar year were with x2 sets of mid 1980's blades. I gamed my 712 AP2's as often as I gamed those.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sfdoddsy]

I was about to report your thread for being un-OzGolf, but then u said u got new stuff replacing stuff that works so all is good!!! [emoji12]

I think I've proved I belong.

The Mizunos have already been sold.

And I took yet another set of irons which I know before trying them will be no better or worse as a part trade (in this case Wilson M3 Tours simply because I like black heads).

It's a sickness.



[Progolfgear]

I was having this very discussion with some guys on Wednesday out on the course.

When everyone talks about golf club technology, generally driver is the first club that comes to mind which is what our conversation was based on.

We pretty much concluded that the end of any real club technology progress occured a couple of years after the max COR and CC rules came into play.

[Scifisicko]

Day switched to the M1 at the BMW last year (end of the season). His PGA driving average for 2014 was 300 yards, in 2015 it jumped to 313, so far in 2016 he is back to 301. Maybe he should have stuck with the R15.

Blubba also claimed the G30 was 10 yards longer than the G25, his PGA driving stats dont support that it is any longer than the G10 or G25.

I thought that the Ti Cup face on a 3W was a significant advance, but I recently spent a week using an old v steel and fk me, the ball came off just as hot. I was also very happy with the R7 supertri.

[TheNuclearOne]

Day switched to the M1 at the BMW last year (end of the season). His PGA driving average for 2014 was 300 yards, in 2015 it jumped to 313, so far in 2016 he is back to 301. Maybe he should have stuck with the R15.

Blubba also claimed the G30 was 10 yards longer than the G25, his PGA driving stats dont support that it is any longer than the G10 or G25.


They aren't paid a fortune to play old models and say the new ones aren't any better/longer ;)

[sfdoddsy]

Day switched to the M1 at the BMW last year (end of the season). His PGA driving average for 2014 was 300 yards, in 2015 it jumped to 313, so far in 2016 he is back to 301. Maybe he should have stuck with the R15.

Blubba also claimed the G30 was 10 yards longer than the G25, his PGA driving stats dont support that it is any longer than the G10 or G25.

I thought that the Ti Cup face on a 3W was a significant advance, but I recently spent a week using an old v steel and fk me, the ball came off just as hot. I was also very happy with the R7 supertri.

This makes interesting reading:

http://pluggedingolf.com/are-new-drivers-really-better-golf-myths-unplugged/

Small sample size, but no real difference between a 10 year old driver and a new one.

Slightly OT, but that site also some interesting articles about other things we all debate.

I was particularly interested in the ones about whether you are better off hitting driver off the tee or laying up (No), whether hybrids actually are better than long irons (probably not) and whether 'distance' irons are longer than traditional irons once you take lofts into account (no).

There's also a very interesting article here: http://www.golfwrx.com/231525/iron-shaft-shootout-top-rated-steel-and-graphite-iron-shafts-get-put-to-the-test/

Basically they found that on average all of the iron shafts they tested launched about the same, and spun about the same. There were some differences for individuals, but (again on average) famed low launch low spin shafts like the S300 and C Taper produced identical results to supposed high launch high spin shafts.

[mrbluu]

Thought this was quite interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btrv7wq9xh4

[benno_r]

Thought this was quite interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btrv7wq9xh4
I wouldn't imagine blade tech had changed for the last 20yrs.

Shovel tech is where the big changes have occured.