Par 3s - how long is too long

[Courty]

Following on from discussion in the Awesome Short Par 3s thread, and to avoid thread-jacking it, let's talk about the longer variants and whether they can actually be any good.

[Courty]

My own opinion is that anything over 200 is too long. I would think that the majority of amateurs couldn't carry to the putting surface, and I don't think running a ball up is not how they're generally intended to be played.

Take the 5th at Cairns GC for example. 210m, often downwind but not always. Two bunkers guarding the front with a 6m opening between them makes hitting the putting surface very difficult. I think it should either be shortened to 180 (max), or have the bunkers removed/ reshaped to make the front more accessible.

[benno_r]

Coral Cove Hole 2. 203m from the tips.

You hit over the volcanic rock beach to a green back stopped by a large bank. Anything left is dead, anything right or short will find land and feed towards the green. Only down side is if you take it on, there are 3-4m high trees you must clear to make the green.

Awesome hole, but I'd agree it's too long. Those who attended qld champs last year might comment.

[Dotty]

For club golfers, nothing more than The Heritage St Johns.

I could just reach all the greens with a driver, and the 8th needed some smart play to thread between the bunkers. (I also did two silly shots trying to get on the 11th, rather than playing it safely.)

As opposed to Newcastle with a 232m and another 200m par 3, which are a gimme for most club players, - just aim at the pin and anything over 100m is ultra-safe.

[markTHEblake]

The 3rd at St Lucia in Brisbane is a 230m par 3 with Brisbane river on the left to catch anyone trying to chase it. Was a nice smooth 3W back in the day of persimmon and balata (83/84) when it was still Indroopilly and hosted all the state kids events

I remember being amused that this hole was only 3m shorter than the 1st at Victoria which was a par 4.

[mrbluu]

I would sat 185m from the plates (unless there is a large elevation change) to the middle of the green is a good enough test of iron play for most golfers.

[Courty]

I would sat 185m from the plates (unless there is a large elevation change) to the middle of the green is a good enough test of iron play for most golfers.

Agreed. The only exception to length is a big drop in elevation so the hole plays shorter than its true length.

[Jarro]

My own opinion is that anything over 200 is too long. I would think that the majority of amateurs couldn't carry to the putting surface, and I don't think running a ball up is not how they're generally intended to be played.

Take the 5th at Cairns GC for example. 210m, often downwind but not always. Two bunkers guarding the front with a 6m opening between them makes hitting the putting surface very difficult. I think it should either be shortened to 180 (max), or have the bunkers removed/ reshaped to make the front more accessible.
Agree with this.

200 meters for a par 3 is too long.

[Daves]

Reddie Bay 13th is an interesting subject. The green is way too small for a par 3 that long (198m off the blacks, 180m off the blues) . Most of the oldies play Driver, though is usually isn't much more than a 3 or 4i for the average golfer. I have hit as little as 6i when a strong SE wind is following. There is nothing in front, though the water hole next the the ladies tee gets far more traffic than it should. So you can run a shot up onto the green, and if you finish just short is it a straight forward chip up. Right side is Moreton Bay for the entire length. Over the back is pretty much dead, thick Kikuyu makes a chip back to a green with lots of back to front slope, difficult at best. A small pot bunker on the left back edge guilds the lily as well, not quite sure why it is there? The Green needs to be rebuilt, and probably moved to the left a bit. Knocking 10/20 metres off it wouldn't hurt either. It could be argued that the green is too close to the 17th and 14th Tees.

The positive for it being a tough, long par 3 is that it is the start of our "Amen Corner" run of holes, that will sort a round out pretty quickly if your err.

[PeteyD]

Green is so wrong for the hole on 13. No chance of stopping it coming on sideways. Always play short and chip up these days, maybe get a good hard bounce and get on.

5 at Kooralbyn Valley was an awesome long par 3. Pity the conditioning was poor when this was taken.

http://www.ozgolf.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=373&d=1174566198

[KristianJ]

With the exception of the 2nd at Mount Broughton I can't think of any 200ish m par 3s that I found enjoyable...

[Steve57]

Green is so wrong for the hole on 13. No chance of stopping it coming on sideways. Always play short and chip up these days, maybe get a good hard bounce and get on.

5 at Kooralbyn Valley was an awesome long par 3.
Agree with all of the above.
It's been a while since I played there but the 8th at Woodlands also used to be too long for a par 3.
It was 240 yards when I first started caddying there in the early 70's but a quick check of their website tells me it is now only 197 metres.
It was always driver and hope you got a good bounce!

[sms316]

Agree with this.200 meters for a par 3 is too long.Which is about 118 smoot. Are you over one smoot Jarro?

[Courty]

I also recall one at LaTrobe that was 230-odd meters. I don't claim to be a long hitter, but I'm definitely not short and I still needed driver to get there.

[wazandnic]

From the other thread:




The worse ones I've seen is Eastlake and Gungalin Lakes. I think GL takes the cake for the dumb tiered green!!!

Agree Eastlake 17 was ridiculous. 208m. Small sloping green on the side of a hill, no landing area around and anything hitting green generally rolled through. Luckily it's been changed into a 150m Par 3 that now brings the lake more into play and nearly belongs in the other thread. Possibly best par 3 on the course now although the green is nothing like any of the other greens on the course with lots of dips and swails and slopes?!

[mrbluu]

From the other thread:



Agree Eastlake 17 was ridiculous. 208m. Small sloping green on the side of a hill, no landing area around and anything hitting green generally rolled through. Luckily it's been changed into a 150m Par 3 that now brings the lake more into play and nearly belongs in the other thread. Possibly best par 3 on the course now although the green is nothing like any of the other greens on the course with lots of dips and swails and slopes?!
Maybe someone has been reading my posts ;)

[wazandnic]

When i told them you would never be back they decided to try and change some things! ;)

[WBennett]

230m is too long for a 3.

A back tee/back pin length of 200 is fine, if you then think that the hole is a par 3.5 and its indexed appropriately. How long is RMW 16th? I figure if there are a couple of 260-300m 4's to balance out the long 3's, then they are almost par 3.5s as well.

However, some caveats. A 200m water carry 3 is stupid. A 175m water carry 3 (like Heritage 11), with a bailout area short from maybe 80-100m carry is fine.

For a good long 3, the key is having A) a safe bailout area which still allows a 3 to be made B) a big enough green which is receptive to long clubs in c) a safe runway for those who can't carry it to roll onto the green.

If the green is 30-40m deep, then a hole with a card length of 185 can play 165 to 205. And I am cool with that.

[BUSHY]

My own opinion is that anything over 200 is too long. I would think that the majority of amateurs couldn't carry to the putting surface, and I don't think running a ball up is not how they're generally intended to be played.

Take the 5th at Cairns GC for example. 210m, often downwind but not always. Two bunkers guarding the front with a 6m opening between them makes hitting the putting surface very difficult. I think it should either be shortened to 180 (max), or have the bunkers removed/ reshaped to make the front more accessible.

6m...? That's being generous.

[PeteyD]

Stupid long par 3s, that one at Brisbane is pretty stupid.

[BUSHY]

However, some caveats. A 200m water carry 3 is stupid.

So the 16th at Cypress Point is out?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160223/40c44755dba3d23dd089b245c0e58f5e.jpg

[Courty]

Someone refresh my memory of the 17th at Pacific Harbour. I remember having to nut a 3 wood to get there, but was that because it was stoopid long, or stoopid windy (or both)?

[WBennett]

So the 16th at Cypress Point is out?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160223/40c44755dba3d23dd089b245c0e58f5e.jpg

There is bail out left. Its ok

40215

[LeftyHoges]

I also recall one at LaTrobe that was 230-odd meters. I don't claim to be a long hitter, but I'm definitely not short and I still needed driver to get there.

To be fair, I think that was a temp hole, and they made it long to keep some length in the course. I only hit 3 wood though and was on the front edge.

Man up pansy boy!

[PerryGroves]

I played a lot of my junior golf at CastleCove in Sydney, 9 holes. Three of the Par 3s in those days were over 230m including the 5th which was a dog leg and you had to do them twice. Was a difficult place to have a low handicap.

Longest hole for the pros I can remember was at Merion, pretty sure Phil had a spit one day when he flushed a 3 wood into the breeze and didn't get there.

Think the answer depends on prevailing winds and topography but 210m seems more than enough IMO
http://youtu.be/XV44ARPJx9I

[LeftyHoges]

There is bail out left. Its ok

40215
I know exactly where I'd be....

Half bailing out into this area.

40216

[PeteyD]

I'd hit the trees.

[BUSHY]

I know exactly where I'd be....

Half bailing out into this area.

40216

With your second ball?

[benno_r]

Someone refresh my memory of the 17th at Pacific Harbour. I remember having to nut a 3 wood to get there, but was that because it was stoopid long, or stoopid windy (or both)?

Yep, but I think it is the 8th now.

Bunker into water all right, and a series of pots on the left, generally into the wind makes this a very tough hole. Last time I played there was playing 185m into a very strong wind.

[PeteyD]

Yea it is a shit long par 3.

[Courty]

Yep, but I think it is the 8th now.

Bunker into water all right, and a series of pots on the left, generally into the wind makes this a very tough hole. Last time I played there was playing 185m into a very strong wind.

Ah, you're probably right. I may have the number confused as i think we started on 10 the day I played there.

[Courty]

To be fair, I think that was a temp hole, and they made it long to keep some length in the course. I only hit 3 wood though and was on the front edge.

Man up pansy boy!

Hey, it was a choke-down three-quarter punch. ;)

I didn't realize it was a temp hole, though.

[hippo10]

As with most things in golf course architecture there is not definitive answer to how long is too long, and the appropriateness of a hole has to be considered as a part of the course as a whole. Cypress 16 is a great example. It's a 200m carry from the tips which is long for most players but there aren't a lot of long carries required in the rest of the course. I don't think it's too much to ask of a player to make a big carry once in a round but too often and it becomes tiresome. The 16th at Cypress is also justified by the terrific thrill of playing over the ocean, the receptiveness of the green to a long shot and the easily accessible bailout area. In fact part of it's great allure is that there is a relatively easy way to make 4 and possibly a 3 (bailing out left) but the setting tempts players into the hero shot.

Another point to make is that providing adequate teeing options and allowing players of different skill to play from the suitable tee is crucial to achieving challenging but appropriate holes for the different levels of golfer.

The 5th at Cairns (that Courty mentioned in the OP) could be a good par 3 with a couple of minor tweaks. At the moment it really suffers from the entrance to the green being too narrow (~11m) and too soft. If the approach area was harder and provided the opportunity to run a shot onto the green I think it would be vastly improved. Ideally you'd achieve this by moving/removing the front right bunker. The green being sloped from back to front is relatively well suited to a long approach. The tee box should also be extended forward to provide some more options depending on pins/weather/playing ability.

[FuzzyJuzzy]

I would sat 185m from the plates (unless there is a large elevation change) to the middle of the green is a good enough test of iron play for most golfers.I agree. So long as it's an iron from the tee, then that's fine with me. If you're required to hit and hold a green with a fairway wood or hybrid on a par 3, that's when it gets a bit rich for me.But what if there's a bail out option? Does that justify somewhat a long 3? The 14th (think it's the 14th) at Macquarie Links is maybe 200m from the plates, with water front and left, but there's a fair swag of open grass right of the green if you don't take it on. And from memory if you can't carry the water, you have the option of bunting it around the water. Not saying this justifies the length or makes it an awesome hole, but it does give you options.

[FuzzyJuzzy]

From the other thread:



Agree Eastlake 17 was ridiculous. 208m. Small sloping green on the side of a hill, no landing area around and anything hitting green generally rolled through. Luckily it's been changed into a 150m Par 3 that now brings the lake more into play and nearly belongs in the other thread. Possibly best par 3 on the course now although the green is nothing like any of the other greens on the course with lots of dips and swails and slopes?!

I quite enjoyed the 17th at Eastlake Waz (never played it in its former incarnation). I thought the par 3 before it was decent too. When I played it, the tee on the 9th was well forward (115m to green) due to some work being done, but from the plates it looked like that'd be a tricky green to hit/hold...

[FuzzyJuzzy]

So the 16th at Cypress Point is out?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160223/40c44755dba3d23dd089b245c0e58f5e.jpg

The 15th and 16th at Cypress Point are gorgeous golf holes. The 16th is like the 6th at NSW on 'roids with a chaser of deer antler spray.
Surely the 16th hole is heaps shorter from the members tees...

[FuzzyJuzzy]

I played a lot of my junior golf at CastleCove in Sydney, 9 holes. Three of the Par 3s in those days were over 230m including the 5th which was a dog leg and you had to do them twice. Was a difficult place to have a low handicap.

Longest hole for the pros I can remember was at Merion, pretty sure Phil had a spit one day when he flushed a 3 wood into the breeze and didn't get there.

Think the answer depends on prevailing winds and topography but 210m seems more than enough IMO
http://youtu.be/XV44ARPJx9I

I remember those par 3s at Merion when the US Open was there in 2013. They looked awesome, but hard as hell.

[Hatchman]

Can't think of any 200m+ par 3's that I thought were good holes.
I think anything longer than 200m is too long and any carry required more than 170-180m is too much also.
Courty's example of 200m with bunkers guarding the front is just plan stupid.

I think Barossa Valley's 17th is 230m and it play every bit of that. Too long and let's the whole back nine down. With the tall river reds on both the LHS and RHS it would be be a good 180m par 3.

[WBennett]

I agree. So long as it's an iron from the tee, then that's fine with me. If you're required to hit and hold a green with a fairway wood or hybrid on a par 3, that's when it gets a bit rich for me.But what if there's a bail out option? Dotty hit driver on all 4 par 3s at Heritage.I hit 6i 6i 5i 7iI quite like a long 3 that asks an exacting shot with a long club.

[Matt 3 Jab]

Newcastle's 3rd is a great hole, long, but a great hole!

Tununda's 1st hole is a cracker par 3, was happy to make a 2 there :mrgreen:

On a serious note, the 180ish holes with a good amount of bunkering does me

[BUSHY]

The 15th and 16th at Cypress Point are gorgeous golf holes. The 16th is like the 6th at NSW on 'roids with a chaser of deer antler spray.
Surely the 16th hole is heaps shorter from the members tees...

There's shorter tee's but I doubt the members would be playing less than 200y.
Would be interesting using hickory and an old Haskell ball...?

[Hatchman]

Newcastle's 3rd is a great hole, long, but a great hole!

Tununda's 1st hole is a cracker par 3, was happy to make a 2 there :mrgreen:

On a serious note, the 180ish holes with a good amount of bunkering does me

Easy par 3 for a flusha ��

[Dotty]

Dotty hit driver on all 4 par 3s at Heritage.
And found the putting surface on three of them.

Trying to fade a driver on 11 wasn't the smart play. Twice.

[liptout]

I don't care how long a par 3 is, I hate all of them!!

But if given a choice, if prefer a longer one cause then I've got an excuse when I bogey it!! Or double it!!

[G.K]

Trying to fade a driver on 11 wasn't the smart play. Twice.

It would be interesting to know how many of us hit that green with their first tee shot. Seems many groups struggled on that hole. I think our group donated 5 balls to the water. I hit 5 iron twice. Topped the first into the piss, hit my second into the cliff at the back of the green. Could not have hit two more different shots with the same club. I was kicking myself when I got up to the green and realised just how big the bail out area to the left was.

[WBennett]

It would be interesting to know how many of us hit that green with their first tee shot. Seems many groups struggled on that hole. I think our group donated 5 balls to the water. I hit 5 iron twice. Topped the first into the piss, hit my second into the cliff at the back of the green. Could not have hit two more different shots with the same club. I was kicking myself when I got up to the green and realised just how big the bail out area to the left was.12 foot. Easy :)

[G.K]

12 foot. Easy :)

Such a flusher! ;)

I'd take a punt and say you were probably about one of 10. Not sure why. Wasn't really an overly hard hole looking back at it. Just remember lots of folks talking about struggling on that hole afterwards. It must have just been the water carry that messed with the mental capabilities of lesser mortals such as myself and switched me into retardation mode.

[davepuppies]

Balgowlahs 3rd hole is 210 metres from the plates, and has a lateral hazard all the way down the left, trees up the first 1/2 of the right, with a opening/ fairway of approx 10 metres.

Hazard continues around back of green ( about 1 metre from green to hazard up side, and back)

A par is a huge victory here!

[KristianJ]

10th at Long Reef just came to mind. At least 200m of uphill trial and tribulation...

[davepuppies]

10th at Long Reef just came to mind. At least 200m of uphill trial and tribulation...

And usually into a headwind!

[G.K]

Balgowlahs 3rd hole is 210 metres from the plates, and has a lateral hazard all the way down the left, trees up the first 1/2 of the right, with a opening/ fairway of approx 10 metres.

Hazard continues around back of green ( about 1 metre from green to hazard up side, and back)

A par is a huge victory here!

It's been years since I've played Balgowlah. Had totally forgot the 3rd was a par 3. I suppose the length on that hole is kind of counted for in the short length of the 2nd and is it the 8th up the hill next to the houses? Have had some fun times knocking it around there in the past.


10th at Long Reef just came to mind. At least 200m of uphill trial and tribulation...

Played there a few times over Xmas, didn't hit the green once.

[jimandr]

Coral Cove Hole 2. 203m from the tips.

You hit over the volcanic rock beach to a green back stopped by a large bank. Anything left is dead, anything right or short will find land and feed towards the green. Only down side is if you take it on, there are 3-4m high trees you must clear to make the green.

Awesome hole, but I'd agree it's too long. Those who attended qld champs last year might comment.

To be fair Benno (R) the tee we played from isn't the regular members tee. If it was, and I played the course regularly, I'd play 7 iron, pitch and call it a par 4. You may recall I was worried about being able to my driver high enough to get over the trees, and even then I wasn't thinking about hitting the green. On the other hand PeterRS and Lager hit great shots to birdie range, so they probably think it is great.

Arundel Hills was a worse example of stupid par 3's from the plates. I particularly enjoyed the 220m uphill 3 when my good drive was still 30m short, but all of them were 180+, and if I recall correctly at least two of them were allegedly easy index holes.

Really, for the purpose of this discussion we should think about the regular members tees rather than the plates. Sometimes the black marker plates are further back than the medal tees, so we get a false perspective of the hole if the black marker day is the only time we ever play the hole.

But, I'm with the consensus view that anything over 200m is too long, and even holes at 180 or 190 need a run-up area rather than a long carry. Even then, I'm of the view that holes like 10 at Long Reef or even 12 at Royal Adelaide aren't good holes. Tough and long, but not much fun, frankly.

[Courty]

Was it the 6th at the Dunes that was quite a bit downhill? Not sure of the length, but it's the only example I can think of (other than Kooralbyn) where a par 3 plays considerably shorter than its actual length.

[Lagerlover]

Coral Cove Hole 2. 203m from the tips.

You hit over the volcanic rock beach to a green back stopped by a large bank. Anything left is dead, anything right or short will find land and feed towards the green. Only down side is if you take it on, there are 3-4m high trees you must clear to make the green.

Awesome hole, but I'd agree it's too long. Those who attended qld champs last year might comment.

pin high to 5m.. great hole !!

as jim mentioned though, trees in front of greens are silly.

[Shadesy]

Was it the 6th at the Dunes that was quite a bit downhill? Not sure of the length, but it's the only example I can think of (other than Kooralbyn) where a par 3 plays considerably shorter than its actual length. yep was a 6i

Nemo it a great shot into 11 Heritage. I aimed middle and pulled it, easy chip to that pin 3/3. Too many par 3's of the same length.

I don't mind a a 200m par 3, as long as it fits into the course.

Starting (hole 1) WA golf club with a 220m par 3 into it , into a 2 tiered green....

[benno_r]

pin high to 5m.. great hole !!

as jim mentioned though, trees in front of greens are silly.

Agreed, I think I am remembering it from a few years ago when those trees were 1ft high. Hit it close one day by landing it 15m short right and it fed around to 6ft. Definitely gave it options.

Might head up there with a chainsaw soon.

[Charger]

I like them long, as I hit my long irons well and love to flush one in. But the greens must be receptive to those kinda shots. Here in Toowoomba we have lost two great ones, the (old) 8th at City, was a well struck 3 iron that was straight down the hill and you hit between 2 tall trees. But the elevation meant balls stopped on the green. Middle Ridge (new 2nd) has been culled from 210 back to 170. Its still hard, but I look back at the old tee and fondly remember seeing gun golfers flushing two irons into that green.

Im a fan. Golf should be hard, and a test of all your shots.

[hippo10]

Why should a par 3 be short enough that you can hit it with an iron?

[WBennett]

Why should a par 3 be short enough that you can hit it with an iron? I agree. In a perfect world you wouldnt use the same club twice in a round on par 3s.

[BenM]

It would be interesting to know how many of us hit that green with their first tee shot.

I think all of us in our group hit it, even me (though it did trickle onto the back fringe) and I was chopping it.

[BUSHY]

Why should a par 3 be short enough that you can hit it with an iron?

I kind of agree but the USGA has a lot to answer for with this kind of thing. Too many courses try and squeeze a long 3 in just for the sake of it mainly due to their fascination with 200+ par3's.

No need for cookie cutter design. X short par 4's, long par 3's etc.

The Old Course has 2 par 3's, both are under 160 and both require 3wood to gap wedge depending on the wind. The only difference is that they're both very interesting no matter the conditions. That's where the distinction should be made. If you want it to play long, design the hole and especially the green complex to play with long irons and woods.

[G.K]

I think all of us in our group hit it, even me (though it did trickle onto the back fringe) and I was chopping it.

Ok then, our group must have just been a bunch of massive choppers then (me included). Shaz was the only one who actually had a putt on that green. I only had one shot on the green side of the water trying to hack my ball out of the crap back left and promptly gave up after my ball went into more crap and disappeared.

[BenM]

Ok then, our group must have just been a bunch of massive choppers then (me included). Shaz was the only one who actually had a putt on that green. I only had one shot on the green side of the water trying to hack my ball out of the crap back left and promptly gave up after my ball went into more crap and disappeared.

We were just lucky - only one flusher in our group. Also, the course marshal was sitting by the tee waiting to give us the hurry up, we wanted to impress.

[LeftyHoges]

We were just lucky - only one flusher in our group. Also, the course marshal was sitting by the tee waiting to give us the hurry up, we wanted to impress.

That's a really nice thing to say about Noren. You're a good bloke Ben.

[LarryLong]

It would be interesting to know how many of us hit that green with their first tee shot. Seems many groups struggled on that hole. I think our group donated 5 balls to the water. I hit 5 iron twice. Topped the first into the piss, hit my second into the cliff at the back of the green. Could not have hit two more different shots with the same club. I was kicking myself when I got up to the green and realised just how big the bail out area to the left was.

Come on G, even I hit that green. :D Mind you, I hit a terrible thin shot and remained fully clenched right up until the moment the ball landed safely in the centre of the green.

I think Courty hit it momentarily as well - before his ball bounced backwards into the water, that is. :)

As for the length question, I'm happy to play the occasional super-long par 3 for the sake of novelty. I don't mind as long as it is indexed appropriately and choppers like me get a shot. I tend to think that a long approach should mean a more receptive green and no bunkers at the front (and a bail-out option for old blokes who have a good short game), but that's in an ideal world. My home course as a kid had a 180m par 3, and I must say there is something very satisfying about hitting a long iron or wood into a breeze and hitting the green - even if it doesn't happen that often. As somebody else mentioned - if some of the other holes on the course give you a good birdie chance, it all balances out.

[PeteyD]

It would be interesting to know how many of us hit that green with their first tee shot. Seems many groups struggled on that hole. I think our group donated 5 balls to the water. I hit 5 iron twice. Topped the first into the piss, hit my second into the cliff at the back of the green. Could not have hit two more different shots with the same club. I was kicking myself when I got up to the green and realised just how big the bail out area to the left was.


I think all of us in our group hit it, even me (though it did trickle onto the back fringe) and I was chopping it.


Ok then, our group must have just been a bunch of massive choppers then (me included). Shaz was the only one who actually had a putt on that green. I only had one shot on the green side of the water trying to hack my ball out of the crap back left and promptly gave up after my ball went into more crap and disappeared.

Our group was a model for how to not play golf. I blame the early tee time and heavy air ;)

[markTHEblake]

. Here in Toowoomba we have lost two great ones, the (old) 8th at City, was a well struck 3 iron that was straight down the hill and you hit between 2 tall trees. Interesting. Where was this hole?

[razaar]

IMO a par-3 is too long for a player if he/she can't carry the ball to the green and stop it. Elevation, wind, surface slope and obstacles in front of the green are factors that influence length. Some medium to short length par 3's on the coast become short par4s in strong winds.

[timah!]

IMO a par-3 is too long for a player if he/she can't carry the ball to the green and stop it. Elevation, wind, surface slope and obstacles in front of the green are factors that influence length. Some medium to short length par 3's on the coast become short par4s in strong winds.

What's the longest club you can carry Raz? It'd be very different for you compared to me...

[razaar]

What's the longest club you can carry Raz? It'd be very different for you compared to me...Driver 200 metres carry on level topography with a slight wind helping, 4-wood 180 metres same conditions, Tim.

[timah!]

Driver 200 metres carry on level topography with a slight wind helping, 4-wood 180 metres same conditions, Tim.

Great. So neither of those you'll be likely to stop on a green. So next? And who should a course designer consider?

[hippo10]

IMO a par-3 is too long for a player if he/she can't carry the ball to the green and stop it.
Why should it be necessary that you are able to carry the ball to the green? Is there something wrong with a par 3 that's designed to accept a running shot?

[razaar]

Great. So neither of those you'll be likely to stop on a green. So next? And who should a course designer consider?I guess different tee boxes caters for everybody. In Australia we are handicapped on competition. If other clubs are like Wanny, the Sat comp is off the back tees. The only long par 3's I have see have elevated tees which will hold a well struck driver shot of my length. I have yet to see a long par3 that I couldn't hit with a solid strike, they exist but I haven't seen one. The 17th at Pacific Harbour comes close in a stiff northly wind.

[JADO75]

That's why old farts should hit from the short tees on long par 3's

[Dotty]

That's why old farts should hit from the short tees on long par 3's
Or just write their name on the NTP marker for hitting a driver closer than the pups can hit their four irons. ;)

[JADO75]

I love seeing you old fella's (no disrespect) get filthy that you don't don't get any Tour Sauce (backspin) from your driver on par 3's haha

[Charger]

Interesting. Where was this hole?

Roughly about here. Please excuse my awesome graphics. It disappeared in about the late 90's a few course reno's ago. As you can tell it was straight down that rather big hill.

40228

[rubin]

On the members course, and from the normal members tees, there isn't a par 3 under 160. The longest one avgs at about 185m and is over 220m off the tips, but he pin position hasn't changed in (I'm told) 6 weeks.

When I asked why, it's because too many members had a whinge that it was too hard/not getting be a shot.

The green runs on a 45*angle away from the tee, and if he pin is at the back, the tee shot is approaching 250m off the tips.

[Hux]

Ah, you're probably right. I may have the number confused as i think we started on 10 the day I played there.

They reversed the nines but reversed them back. So you were both right. It was 17 then went to 8 now its back to 17.
It is just over 200 off the blacks.
When Bribie was water logged in 2011 we had temporary memberships, playing monthly medal there and I hit a 3 wood into a roaring easterly and came up short.
It is a pointless hole for a course that will never really host a professional event.

[razaar]

I love seeing you old fella's (no disrespect) get filthy that you don't don't get any Tour Sauce (backspin) from your driver on par 3's hahaCan't remember having to hit a driver on a par 3 but I can still carry the ball with little run if I had to. That's one of the benefits of a shut to open release and technique. Some older players have skills. ☺

[Johnny Canuck]

I like longer holes, but always thought this was a touch silly, especially into the wind.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160226/af32ccbd639da9a089165162ac96f5a6.jpg

250 is yards, 225m over a swamp.

[coalesce]

I always thought the 13th hole at Luton Hoo in the UK was way too long. This virtual course flyover doesn't do it justice: http://www.lutonhoo.co.uk/hole-13

It's 271 yards I think off the normal tees, and there's a tree stump not shown on the flyover that is blocking the run-up shot if you're slightly left. That and the narrow (although to be fair, long) green makes it hard to hit!

[wazamac]

[QUOTE= I think Barossa Valley's 17th is 230m and it play every bit of that. Too long and let's the whole back nine down. With the tall river reds on both the LHS and RHS it would be be a good 180m par 3.[/QUOTE]

Agree. I really enjoyed the game and course up until this hole. 180m is plenty. Most of the time my Driver wouldn't run past 200m after I worm burned it.

[FuzzyJuzzy]

I like longer holes, but always thought this was a touch silly, especially into the wind. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160226/af32ccbd639da9a089165162ac96f5a6.jpg250 is yards, 225m over a swamp.That's bloody beastly!!

[Johnny Canuck]

That's bloody beastly!!

It's not the hardest par 3 on the course, unbelievably. The par 3 prior to it takes that title

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160226/e18e4fd08af034f2c1d395d7730a42fc.jpg

[TheNuclearOne]

I remember a pretty long one at Twin Waters in a Holden Scramble final. I killed a 3 wood into a light breeze and was barely mid green, if that. I agree aflat 200m is too long.

[rubin]

It's not the hardest par 3 on the course, unbelievably. The par 3 prior to it takes that title

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160226/e18e4fd08af034f2c1d395d7730a42fc.jpg

Are they flat or downhill? (Or worse, uphill)

[Johnny Canuck]

Pretty much flat, from memory.

[rubin]

250 pretty much 95% carry is bs for a par 3 for amateurs. The 215 over water is pushing it

[mrbluu]

Adding Penrith's 11th to the shit long par 3 list. Played it on Sat and was 205m to the flag to a narrow green, angled at 30* to the tee box.

They would be better off shorten that hole to about 150m and moving the green closer to the hazard to the left to bring it into play and then putting some bunkers front right. Now that would be a good hole.

[Nomad]

I shouldn't have to haul out a driver to reach the green on any par 3. I sometimes play on the par 3/4 9 hole course One Mile Country Club at Joyner just north of Brisbane and two long holes are designated par 4.
Apart from the rough tees this is a pleasant little course and cheap.

[Steve57]

Played Hills International yesterday, 13th hole 226m to the pin.
Water left, bunkers short middle and right of green.

[AndyP]

I've never heard of One Mile Country Club.

[Lagerlover]

Played Hills International yesterday, 13th hole 226m to the pin.
Water left, bunkers short middle and right of green.

Nice. Even better when the wind's up.

[Steve57]

Nice. Even better when the wind's up.

Yes I can imagine it would be driver at times!

[3Puttpete]

Played Hills International yesterday, 13th hole 226m to the pin.
Water left, bunkers short middle and right of green.

Index?

[Steve57]

Index?

Don't know. We were playing pennant!

[3Puttpete]

Don't know. We were playing pennant!

5 for a half. Nice

[Steve57]

5 for a half. Nice

That sounds about right as there are certainly harder holes on the course.

[Shreko]

Index 6 of the blue markers, Plays 229 off blues, also include 8th slightly uphill @ 191mt bunkers left and right and 16th @ 220mts with bunkers left and right
all from the blue markers,

Only smidge under 7k long for the whole course off the blues, the back markers are even further

[Lagerlover]

Index?

How the **** would I know !!!

[3Puttpete]

How the **** would I know !!!

Wasn't asking you.

I was hoping a member might know

[Shadesy]

Index 6 of the blue markers, Plays 229 off blues, also include 8th slightly uphill @ 191mt bunkers left and right and 16th @ 220mts with bunkers left and right all from the blue markers, Only smidge under 7k long for the whole course off the blues, the back markers are even further

Sounds stupid

[Nomad]

I've never heard of One Mile Country Club.
http://www.iseekgolf.com/courses/australia/qld/brisbane/one-mile-country-club

[Lagerlover]

I've never heard of One Mile Country Club. Full of dirty perves having sex with each other apparently.

[razaar]

Popped into Pacific Harbour GC to lend support to our Pennant team. I noticed that a few players (low markers) used driver on the par-3 17th 210 metres (into a stiff NE'ly).