The Australian

[Jazz18]

Had a game there yesterday and of course it's only a couple of weeks out from The Australian Open being held there. Course was mint. Greens were ridiculously smooth but not tournament speed yet. Very impressed with the course. We didn't play from the tips so not extremely difficult but from some of the championship tees, it would be very tough. The greens are very tricky. Looking forward to watching the Aussie Open even more now.

[Captain Nemo]

Haven't played it since the revamp, but yeh extremely impressive golf course.....

[LoveGolf2012]

Would you rate it as good or better than the best sand belt Melbourne courses L?

[Captain Nemo]

Different style, but obviously one of the best in Sydney.

[pt73]

I played it two years ago (after the changes) which IMHO have made it harder with some new fairway bunkers (10 and 18 especially) and the redesigned 6th hole is much more of a test.

[westy]

Its certainly a course that polarises opinion. No doubt it looks amazing, if you like that artificial American style. Purists however would argue its all just eye candy and not that good course. That is certainly my view

[WBennett]

If only Jack still posted here, he has an opinion on the place

[westy]

I'm sure the members love it, but as Clayton said, you may as well call it "The American"

[pt73]

Well that's his opinion and some members at courses where he's done work aren't too happy with the outcome, the West Course at The Grange and Royal Adelaide for example.

[westy]

There isn't a course on the planet where all the members have been happy with the work done. It is the most thankless task.

I would certainly rate his work way above that of who ever did the reno at the Australian. It wasn't Nicklaus of course, he just came out to open it.

The Australian appeals to people who like big shiny things. The Lakes appeals to people who like golf.

The two will never meet, and there is no right or wrong, its just opinion and its good I guess that Sydney offers various options for those with differing tastes.

[Icestorm959]

Hmm... never played - looks great while watching the Aus Open though!

How does one go about getting a game on this course? Anyone have a contact willing to host an ozgolfer on a quiet day? :wink:

[Captain Nemo]

Good luck mate, members invite obviously.
I played with a patient I looked after who is a member there.
It was a comp as well, may have been a Sunday?

[westy]

Yes afraid the Oz is a tough nut to crack. NO peasants allowed

[thecollective]

I scored well on it - so therefore its a really good course

[Dotty]

Hmm... never played - looks great while watching the Aus Open though!

How does one go about getting a game on this course? Anyone have a contact willing to host an ozgolfer on a quiet day? :wink:
I played it twice.

Each Sydney club that donates to Legacy gets a group of 4 players on there (or RSGC) on the Friday before Remembrance Day. I just happened to win B grade on our annual Legacy Saturday, so I got a start (along with outright, A grade and C grade winners).

I also got to play on a Sunday, when our club hosted a Vardon event, and each other club around Sydney gave up a timeslot, so our members could get a game. (This used to be common practice.)

The third way is to volunteer to marshal at the Australian Open, and volunteers get a game on the Monday or Tuesday after the event.

[Icestorm959]

I played it twice.

Each Sydney club that donates to Legacy gets a group of 4 players on there (or RSGC) on the Friday before Remembrance Day. I just happened to win B grade on our annual Legacy Saturday, so I got a start (along with outright, A grade and C grade winners).

I also got to play on a Sunday, when our club hosted a Vardon event, and each other club around Sydney gave up a timeslot, so our members could get a game. (This used to be common practice.)

The third way is to volunteer to marshal at the Australian Open, and volunteers get a game on the Monday or Tuesday after the event.

Sounds good, looks like the volunteering path is probably the easiest!

[FuzzyJuzzy]

I volunteered in 2012 and 2013; missed out last year, and didn't bother nominating this year. It's a killer gig, freebies-wise.
I love The Lakes and NSW GC, Royal Sydney is okay. The Australian looks awesome...but possibly lacking in character compared to The Lakes. Not played The Aussie yet though. I'll be heading out for R2 next Friday.

[westy]

The biggest criticism I guess is that it doesn't suit the land. Its lovely sand dune country, and yet they build a silly American course. It should be sandbelt, or perhaps a Royal Adelaide style. White sands and ponds are just stupid

[Jazz18]

The biggest criticism I guess is that it doesn't suit the land. Its lovely sand dune country, and yet they build a silly American course. It should be sandbelt, or perhaps a Royal Adelaide style. White sands and ponds are just stupid

Why are they stupid? Why should it be sandbelt? It's a great track. Really fun to play and if you play it from the right tees, not too difficult and very playable. That's good design as far as I'm concerned.

[Scifisicko]

Agree with everything written by everyone in the thread. The abundance of water and where it is placed is both a great challenge and incongrous with the landscape. I prefer minimalist design that reflects the personality of the landscape and it doesn't do that. It is still a lot of fun to play and I doubt any of us would turn down an invite to play it the day after the open off the back tees. I like Clayton's general philosophy of taking hazards out of the air and putting them on the ground and am yet to play a course he hasn't improved.

[westy]

Um... because it is built on sand??



Why are they stupid? Why should it be sandbelt? It's a great track. Really fun to play and if you play it from the right tees, not too difficult and very playable. That's good design as far as I'm concerned.

[thecollective]

Jack himself has noted that he disagreed with the design concept of the Australian - but Kerry Packer insisted that he wanted a version of Muirfield Village.

There is a excellent doco that explains it all - Jack is very honest and humble about the whole design.

TC

[Jazz18]

Um... because it is built on sand??

Is that a rule or something?


Jack himself has noted that he disagreed with the design concept of the Australian - but Kerry Packer insisted that he wanted a version of Muirfield Village.

There is a excellent doco that explains it all - Jack is very honest and humble about the whole design.

TC

Fair enough. Jack may not think it suits the land but he still designed it. If it was really that much of an issue for him, he could have walked away from the project, no?

[thecollective]

Is that a rule or something?

Jazz: There is no rule; however normally the type of soil should determine the type of golf course that you build.

Its a bit like if I start producing chardonnay in the Barossa Valley - no rule to say I can't but the grape quality will not be as good as it does not suit the climate.

TC

[Jazz18]

Jazz: There is no rule; however normally the type of soil should determine the type of golf course that you build.

Its a bit like if I start producing chardonnay in the Barossa Valley - no rule to say I can't but the grape quality will not be as good as it does not suit the climate.

TC

It was sarcasm TC. Anyone who goes and plays the Australian and comes off thinking it should be "sandbelt" or whatever, needs a reality check or is spoiled for choice. Who cares if it doesn't fit the soil type etc etc. It's just a great golf course. Why can't it be left at that? Cheers

[Yossarian]

A great course in your opinion. Why do you want to kill all discussion?

[Captain Nemo]

Um... because it is built on sand??
Westy,
Are you a course designer or greens keeper?
All your posts on Ozgolf are course orientated, just would like to know.

[PerryGroves]

Is that a rule or something?


Jazz: There is no rule; however normally the type of soil should determine the type of golf course that you build.


It was sarcasm TC. Anyone who goes and plays the Australian and comes off thinking it should be "sandbelt" or whatever, needs a reality check or is spoiled for choice. Who cares if it doesn't fit the soil type etc etc. It's just a great golf course. Why can't it be left at that? Cheers

Sarcasm or not, purely from an economic standpoint, changing the base composition of the course is an expensive proposition and I would surmise so is the ongoing maintainence. If there is one club in Australia who don't give a shit about costs it's The Australian so I guess they can have whatever they want.

I have played there a fair bit both pre and post renovation, the members seem happy with what they have, certainly there is some tremendous paving and guttering on the new paths and you need sunnies to hit out of the bunkers on a summers day, so this is all good :)

I like it but I don't love it.

[Captain Nemo]

Well said PG.
;)

[thecollective]

It was sarcasm TC. Anyone who goes and plays the Australian and comes off thinking it should be "sandbelt" or whatever, needs a reality check or is spoiled for choice. Who cares if it doesn't fit the soil type etc etc. It's just a great golf course. Why can't it be left at that? Cheers

Its not so much about what it should be but rather taking a piece of land and making it the best possible course it could be by utilising the natural features and contours. Some of the best courses do this well - Merion for example has a massive old quarry running through the last few holes, St Andrews has a tee shot over a hotel.

The Australian is certainly a premier course and there is reason why it hosts the Australian Open; but IMO it is not a memorable course and holds no distinctiveness other than its superior conditioning that to be honest any tier 1 club could achieve with an unlimited budget.

TC

[Jazz18]

Its not so much about what it should be but rather taking a piece of land and making it the best possible course it could be by utilising the natural features and contours. Some of the best courses do this well - Merion for example has a massive old quarry running through the last few holes, St Andrews has a tee shot over a hotel.

The Australian is certainly a premier course and there is reason why it hosts the Australian Open; but IMO it is not a memorable course and holds no distinctiveness other than its superior conditioning that to be honest any tier 1 club could achieve with an unlimited budget.

TC

So, if you think it could have been done better, what would you suggest?

[Coldtopper]

Haven't played for a while but one of the best tracks going! I really like the layout the Oz and always keeps you interested. I bet the knockers have never been allowed to play it......

[Scifisicko]

It rates pretty high....35 on the Golf Australia rankings. Only 9 sand belt courses above it.

Ooops 29 not 35. Even better.

[Coldtopper]

It rates pretty high....35 on the Golf Australia rankings. Only 9 sand belt courses above it.

Ooops 29 not 35. Even better. Golf Australia rankings are made up by shitty courses with large marketing budgets. Anyway hope they get the rains and 20+ under wins...

[mrbluu]

Golf Australia rankings are made up by shitty courses with large marketing budgets. Anyway hope they get the rains and 20+ under wins...
What's your personal top 20 in Australia ct and most importantly with spanner concur ;)

[Scifisicko]

Golf Australia rankings are made up by shitty courses with large marketing budgets. Anyway hope they get the rains and 20+ under wins... Are you saying they bought their ranking?

[westy]

Define "great golf course"
Is it pretty? - yes
Is it green? - yes
Is it exclusive? - yes
Does it have a bar in the locker room? Yes
Are there lots of Ferraris in the car park? Yes
Does it sit gently upon the land? - no
Does it make use of the lovey undulating sand dunes? - no
Is it a thoughtful and endlessly interesting strategic golf course? - no
Is it a one dimensional American course requiring the golfer to simply kick it through the goal posts between bunkers and ponds? Yes
Does this land offer the potential, given the sand, and the money available, to be one of the great courses of the world? - Yes
Is it, given the sand and the money available, one of the great courses of the world? - No
Does it provide a quintessentially Australian backdrop to our national championship? No

What is the score so far?

[3oneday]

Do they get their tits out like they do at Royal Sydney?

[Captain Nemo]

Do they get their tits out like they do at Royal Sydney?

Ah, no.

[3oneday]

Boo

[pt73]

One of my mates is a member at RSGC and told me they were a great set as he's seen the CCTV.

[Jazz18]

Define "great golf course"
Is it pretty? - yes
Is it green? - yes
Is it exclusive? - yes
Does it have a bar in the locker room? Yes
Are there lots of Ferraris in the car park? Yes
Does it sit gently upon the land? - no
Does it make use of the lovey undulating sand dunes? - no
Is it a thoughtful and endlessly interesting strategic golf course? - no
Is it a one dimensional American course requiring the golfer to simply kick it through the goal posts between bunkers and ponds? Yes
Does this land offer the potential, given the sand, and the money available, to be one of the great courses of the world? - Yes
Is it, given the sand and the money available, one of the great courses of the world? - No
Does it provide a quintessentially Australian backdrop to our national championship? No

What is the score so far?

The Australian isn't for everyone to enjoy. It's not a public park or a Government project that has to cover off all those aspects you are saying it should. It's for the members. They have the money to do what they want with the land they have and did it. It doesn't have to be all the things you want it to be.

I'm curious, if this golf course was in America, would it be a great golf course or are you saying that all golf courses in America are crap too?

[PerryGroves]

The Australian isn't for everyone to enjoy. It's not a public park or a Government project that has to cover off all those aspects you are saying it should. It's for the members. They have the money to do what they want with the land they have and did it. It doesn't have to be all the things you want it to be.

I'm curious, if this golf course was in America, would it be a great golf course or are you saying that all golf courses in America are crap too?

I'm not sure what point you are trying to argue Jazz. The Australian is not a great golf course.....period, for all the reasons Westy outlined.
If it were in America it still wouldn't be, the comment was merely that it is like an American course. There are 20 significantly better golf courses than The Australian within a 2 hour drive of NYC.

[Jazz18]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to argue Jazz. The Australian is not a great golf course.....period, for all the reasons Westy outlined.
If it were in America it still wouldn't be, the comment was merely that it is like an American course. There are 20 significantly better golf courses than The Australian within a 2 hour drive of NYC.

Ok, so you agree with Westy. I don't.

I think it's a great golf course. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[meh]

Ok, so you agree with Westy. I don't.

I think it's a great golf course. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

You think it's a great course yet you haven't said why. Other than one reason you gave and that hardly makes it a great course.

[thecollective]

I watched the golf show last night with Paul Gow and Brendon Julian having a round at the Australian. After looking at the course I stand by my views.

Tee shot on 18; you have a tight tree lined fairway with a circle of bunkers to get over - you have one option to hit it like an arrow over the top or layup - no left, no right just like an arrow in a hunger games movie. You then have an option to carry the water - your vision of the lake is somewhat impeded by a cluster of trees neatly lined up so once again its hunger games time - arrow golf unless you can hit some kind of miracle fade.

This sounds like fun for many but for me there is no strategy - it is so one dimensional and boring.

[Jazz18]

You think it's a great course yet you haven't said why. Other than one reason you gave and that hardly makes it a great course.

It's just my opinion. I'm not out to prove that it is. While I was perplexed at the opinions of some initially, I like it, they don't and that's ok.


I watched the golf show last night with Paul Gow and Brendon Julian having a round at the Australian. After looking at the course I stand by my views.

Tee shot on 18; you have a tight tree lined fairway with a circle of bunkers to get over - you have one option to hit it like an arrow over the top or layup - no left, no right just like an arrow in a hunger games movie. You then have an option to carry the water - your vision of the lake is somewhat impeded by a cluster of trees neatly lined up so once again its hunger games time - arrow golf unless you can hit some kind of miracle fade.

This sounds like fun for many but for me there is no strategy - it is so one dimensional and boring.

Have you actually played or walked the course?

[Yossarian]

You clearly are out to prove that it is. But you are also refusing to prove that it is. Very odd thread.

[mrbluu]

It's just my opinion. I'm not out to prove that it is. While I was perplexed at the opinions of some initially, I like it, they don't and that's ok.

It's fine to have an opinion, but only if u agree with other ppl [emoji13]

[Peppas]

Can someone organise an Ozgolf day here? I want to play it now.

[Jazz18]

It's fine to have an opinion, but only if u agree with other ppl [emoji13]

:)

[Jazz18]

Can someone organise an Ozgolf day here? I want to play it now.

I'll duck into their front office next week and check, but I don't like our chances Peps!

[thecollective]

Jazz: I have played the course once with a bunch of other corporate hackers, we managed to get through 12 holes before the rain set in. This was 4.5 years ago. I do not hold an intimate knowledge of the course but from what I saw and have seen (both on the tv and in golf books) is disappointing. The same feeling occurred when I played the Glades and Lakelands. However I enjoyed Palm Meadows and found it quite fun considering the typical resort style layout that is normally not my cup of tea. Many could shoot me down for thinking that!

You clearly hold a passion for the Australian and no one should doubt or question that. The great thing about golf is that we are all unique and different; what makes the Australian so appealing is its sharp contouring, immaculate conditioning and its aerial shot making that it demands of the golfer. To many that is appealing and exciting - good on them for enjoying that aspect of the great game! When you say its an amazing course though cite clearly the reasons why you think so - this will make the topic interesting and we can all comment on the aspects that make up a great golf course.

For me watching a British / Scottish / Irish Open and/or Dunhill Links cannot be beaten, simply because the golf and strategy that is asked brings an entirely different approach to the game. Watching Tom Watson run his hybrid through the 18th green @ Turnberry was one of the most heart-breaking moments in golf; many thought it was unfair but others know that this is the magic of links golf.

Just my 5 cents of dribble to consider :D

TC

[Peppas]

I'll duck into their front office next week and check, but I don't like our chances Peps!

If you could work your magic that'd be great :)

[Jazz18]

I might go into the halfway house while I'm there and grab one of the gourmet chicken sandwiches because I think they're great too. Best chicken sandwich I've ever had. Do I have to give my reasons why the sandwich is great?

[Peppas]

I might go into the halfway house while I'm there and grab one of the gourmet chicken sandwiches because I think they're great too. Best chicken sandwich I've ever had. Do I have to give my reasons why the sandwich is great?

Get me on there and you can say whatever you like about the chicken.

[thecollective]

I might go into the halfway house while I'm there and grab one of the gourmet chicken sandwiches because I think they're great too. Best chicken sandwich I've ever had. Do I have to give my reasons why the sandwich is great?

so Defensive? why?

[Jazz18]

Get me on there and you can say whatever you like about the chicken.

LOL! :)

[Jazz18]

so Defensive? why?

Not defensive, just being flippant.

[Peppas]

LOL! :)

No seriously, I am looking for a game this Saturday, thanks pal :)

[Jazz18]

No seriously, I am looking for a game this Saturday, thanks pal :)

No chance bud, I was taking the piss. I'm not that well connected mate :)

[mrbluu]

The same feeling occurred when I played the Glades and Lakelands. However I enjoyed Palm Meadows and found it quite fun considering the typical resort style layout that is normally not my cup of tea.

This explains a lot.

[Peppas]

No chance bud, I was taking the piss. I'm not that well connected mate :)

Here I was thinking you owed me one after nearly killing me with a golf ball :)

[Jazz18]

Here I was thinking you owed me one after nearly killing me with a golf ball :)

And that was one of my better shots for the day. I could actually find my ball! :)

[Jazz18]

.

[WBennett]

Can someone organise an Ozgolf day here? I want to play it now.

There is one starting tomorrow, we are booked in at 7:08 off the 10th. The Peppas Fan club will be there to cheer you on.

[mrbluu]

I might go into the halfway house while I'm there and grab one of the gourmet chicken sandwiches because I think they're great too. Best chicken sandwich I've ever had. Do I have to give my reasons why the sandwich is great?
I will never be a decent course until they serve an awesome pork roll!!!

[Dotty]

No seriously, I am looking for a game this Saturday, thanks pal :)
Phone Jamie Packer and ask whether he needs an extra kidney.

[Jazz18]

I will never be a decent course until they serve an awesome pork roll!!!

Maybe they do. I didn't ask. How remiss of me!

[Yossarian]

Jazz: I have played the course once with a bunch of other corporate hackers, we managed to get through 12 holes before the rain set in. This was 4.5 years ago. I do not hold an intimate knowledge of the course but from what I saw and have seen (both on the tv and in golf books) is disappointing. The same feeling occurred when I played the Glades and Lakelands. However I enjoyed Palm Meadows and found it quite fun considering the typical resort style layout that is normally not my cup of tea. Many could shoot me down for thinking that!

You clearly hold a passion for the Australian and no one should doubt or question that. The great thing about golf is that we are all unique and different; what makes the Australian so appealing is its sharp contouring, immaculate conditioning and its aerial shot making that it demands of the golfer. To many that is appealing and exciting - good on them for enjoying that aspect of the great game! When you say its an amazing course though cite clearly the reasons why you think so - this will make the topic interesting and we can all comment on the aspects that make up a great golf course.

For me watching a British / Scottish / Irish Open and/or Dunhill Links cannot be beaten, simply because the golf and strategy that is asked brings an entirely different approach to the game. Watching Tom Watson run his hybrid through the 18th green @ Turnberry was one of the most heart-breaking moments in golf; many thought it was unfair but others know that this is the magic of links golf.

Just my 5 cents of dribble to consider :D

TC

At least you tried to have a sensible discussion.

[thecollective]

At least you tried to have a sensible discussion.

lesson learnt - will stick to champs discussion, toilet humour and other general banter for ozgolf

GCA does not belong here

TC

[jimandr]

There is one starting tomorrow, we are booked in at 7:08 off the 10th. The Peppas Fan club will be there to cheer you on.

This was almost the cleverest post in Ozgolf history.

We actually have an Ozgolf member playing in the 7.15am group off the 10th tomorrow. But he never seems to invite fellow Ozgolfers to join him, even for a practice round.

Get it right, wbennett!

[Jazz18]

This was almost the cleverest post in Ozgolf history.

We actually have an Ozgolf member playing in the 7.15am group off the 10th tomorrow. But he never seems to invite fellow Ozgolfers to join him, even for a practice round.

Get it right, wbennett!

Cool, Bowditch?

[golfbound]

I played in the pro am for this event a few years ago was awesome to play but was put off by the people following lol

[PerryGroves]

I might go into the halfway house while I'm there and grab one of the gourmet chicken sandwiches because I think they're great too. Best chicken sandwich I've ever had. Do I have to give my reasons why the sandwich is great?

It would help if you could explain the difference between the sandwich at The Australian and a generic one.

For mine, forums are about being able to explain/at times argue/back up your opinions. Saying x is better than y is a pretty dull discussion.

[Jazz18]

It would help if you could explain the difference between the sandwich at The Australian and a generic one.

For mine, forums are about being able to explain/at times argue/back up your opinions. Saying x is better than y is a pretty dull discussion.

Fair enough PG. I thought I had in a few comments throughout the thread. But the comments back were that it should be something else or it's a silly American course or ponds and white sand were stupid or that people who like the Australian only appeals to people who like big shiny things. In the end I had no other response but to agree to disagree.

[PerryGroves]

Fair cop mate, pros will be effusive in their praise on the weekend.

Despite its "shortcomings" I will still be gassing on in the clubhouse on Sunday.

[Stuartd147]

Walked the course today....magnificent condition.=P~ It will be tough if that wind stays up. They have the fairways cut close around the bunkers too, go near them and the ball will just feed in to them. I walked up to the 7th ladies tee box and checked out the grass, if they cut it a few mm shorter it would be better than our greens!!!!!!!!!!

It was the first time I have seen Nicolas Colsaerts hit a ball...all I can say is wow. He launches his drives so high and long, they just stay hanging up in the air for ages.

Cant wait for the open to start on the tele tomorrow.

[Matt 3 Jab]

Late to this, but having played the course a few times with pennants in / about 2005ish, i enjoyed it. Was amazing condition, and the greens firm and true.

I liked it better than the lakes, but having said that i liked Victoria GC and Woodlands better than the lakes.

The Aussie has a tough finish but you can score well if you are flushing it, which for me is good enough. The wind was really whipping up when i played it, and made the stretch down 12-15 tough.

Not enough of a course critic to outline its points, but its nice. Maybe not unique, but nice.

Have a contact there, trying to play it again soon

[Jazz18]

Late to this, but having played the course a few times with pennants in / about 2005ish, i enjoyed it. Was amazing condition, and the greens firm and true.

I liked it better than the lakes, but having said that i liked Victoria GC and Woodlands better than the lakes.

The Aussie has a tough finish but you can score well if you are flushing it, which for me is good enough. The wind was really whipping up when i played it, and made the stretch down 12-15 tough.

Not enough of a course critic to outline its points, but its nice. Maybe not unique, but nice.

Have a contact there, trying to play it again soon

Who did you play for Matt?

[Matt 3 Jab]

New Brighton mate, the 18-23 pennants

[westy]

The Oz is a fantastic tournament course. THat however does not make it a fantastic course
Condition, access, good parking, good viewing, and a tough challenge. The oz is one of the best,
But still not a great course

[Captain Nemo]

Westy give us your Aus top 10 courses, in order please, love to see.,

[Coldtopper]

The Oz is a fantastic tournament course. THat however does not make it a fantastic course
Condition, access, good parking, good viewing, and a tough challenge. The oz is one of the best,
But still not a great course They dont do people called Westy at the Australian for a reason.

[jimandr]

Most ranking lists put The Australian somewhere between 10 and 20, behind all the good sand belt, NSW, Ellerston, Royal Adelaide, the two Barbougles and one or two others.

That still makes it pretty good, even if it is not absolutely top drawer.

But does it really matter?

[3oneday]

Only if there's boobs.

[mrbluu]

Only if there's boobs.

BYO??

[westy]

I think perhaps you confuse conditioning with quality of design?
Strip away the poshness, the history, the prestige the quality of the fairways, and actually look at the design.

If you took it out of Sydney and put in on the gold coast, where it would fit right in, it might just make top 50 in the country

[meh]

I don't think Westy is saying it is not a good course. It's definitely not a great course and if you think it is you probably haven't played at a great course.

[WBennett]

I think perhaps you confuse conditioning with quality of design?
Strip away the poshness, the history, the prestige the quality of the fairways, and actually look at the design.

If you took it out of Sydney and put in on the gold coast, where it would fit right in, it might just make top 50 in the country

If you were to stick it in the Yarra Valley, would it be better architecturally than the Heritage (either course), Gardiners Run and Yering Meadows?

[Moe Norman]

Yes, it would be.

[WBennett]

I haven't played any of them Thommo, so was just happy to ask a question.

I have no gripe with the course, other than it could have been anywhere in the world, and in no way uniquely Australian as the sandbelt is...

[benno_r]

Everyone keeps saying the Sandbelt is the quintessential Aussie course.

Considering there are 24 courses in the sandbelt (according to Wiki), out of 1500ish in Australia (a whopping 1.6%), I'd argue the AustralianGC is more representative of Australian golf than any course on the sandbelt.

[Yossarian]

Everyone keeps saying the Sandbelt is the quintessential Aussie course.

Considering there are 24 courses in the sandbelt (according to Wiki), out of 1500ish in Australia (a whopping 1.6%), I'd argue the AustralianGC is more representative of Australian golf than any course on the sandbelt.

But there is only 1 Australian and 24 courses on the sandbelt....

[benno_r]

But there is only 1 Australian and 24 courses on the sandbelt....

Yes, but there would be more than 24 courses getting around that are built in a similar style to the Australian.

[3Puttpete]

But there is only 1 Australian and 24 courses on the sandbelt....

I am, you are


That's 2

[JADO75]

Maybe the sandbelt courses are uniquely Australian for that area of Australia but not necessarily a representation for Australia?

[Yossarian]

Yes, but there would be more than 24 courses getting around that are built in a similar style to the Australian.

Would any of them have the resources and prestige/wank factor?

[Yossarian]

I am, you are


That's 2

Terrible, but I did laugh.

[benno_r]

Would any of them have the resources and prestige/wank factor?

Probably not 24. But wank factor matters little in course layout.

[Dotty]

Would any of them have the resources and prestige/wank factor?
Hundreds of committees try to implement the prestige/wank factor.

But they don't have The Australian's resources to pull it off.

[3oneday]

Only if there's boobs.


BYO??


I think perhaps you confuse conditioning with quality of design?sounds about right 8)

[Yossarian]

Probably not 24. But wank factor matters little in course layout.

So what about the layout is uniquely Australian? Besides the name...

[benno_r]

So what about the layout is uniquely Australian? Besides the name...

Boring, predictable, cookie cutter etc etc. Like a lot of golf in Australia it seems a bit formulaic, and less than ideal use of good land.

I don't really know if we have a "uniquely Australian" layout. I have only been to 2 sandbelt courses, and while they were good, they didn't live up to the hype for me. Like I said before, representing only 1.6% of the golfing landscape I might say they are uniquely Melbourne.

[westy]

this is the old Australian. Better or worse?

[Hatchman]

So what about the layout is uniquely Australian? Besides the name...

If you want uniquely Australian I think Kalgoorlie is your course.

[westy]

Probably only 8-10 clubs that have real wank value. And they don't have to try.

[Moe Norman]

I haven't played any of them Thommo, so was just happy to ask a question.

I have no gripe with the course, other than it could have been anywhere in the world, and in no way uniquely Australian as the sandbelt is...

Being architecturally stronger than he Heritage (either course), Gardiners Run and Yering Meadows isn't a particularly big enormous feather in the cap.

The Australian is a good golf course, its just not what it could (or should) be. Everyone has different taste, but I would prefer a game at Spring Valley than the Australian, or Woodlands or even Ranfurlie. Others would think I am completely mad.

It's still a good golf course, worthy of plenty of play. It's just got alot of 'Trump' about it, as opposed to native vegetation and a generally natural feel in keeping with its location.

[WBennett]

this is the old Australian. Better or worse?

Can we get a google map screen capture from roughly the same direction? Someone here would be smart enough to do it.

There is now housing between Randwick and the course, and a bloody great freeway through as well. I like the sandhills to the east

[3Puttpete]

this is the old Australian. Better or worse?


Can we get a google map screen capture from roughly the same direction? Someone here would be smart enough to do it.

There is now housing between Randwick and the course, and a bloody great freeway through as well. I like the sandhills to the east

In which direction is the SCG in those pics?

[wazamac]

Can we get a google map screen capture from roughly the same direction? Someone here would be smart enough to do it.

There is now housing between Randwick and the course, and a bloody great freeway through as well. I like the sandhills to the east


38742
Looking North

38743
Looking North East

[3Puttpete]

Looks like either the golf course or the racecourse moved

[WBennett]

Looks like either the golf course or the racecourse moved

Are those 1930s photos looking north or south?
There is no way the racetrack would have moved and reclaimed houses

[WBennett]

From the history - 1967

The committee felt the redesigned course should retain its "links" quality rather than move towards the American tendency towards "target" golf, so Mr Sloane Morpeth was invited to submit his suggestions.

Looking at photos, Randwick has not moved since the 20's. The Aus also had a 9 hole short course which seems to have been the north eastern side.

[WBennett]

And some more maps and history

http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/discover_collections/society_art/races/randwick/maps.html

[wazamac]

38744
Looking South

[westy]

You are looking from the wrong direction. The old pics are from the north. That racetrack is not Randwick, its the old Victoria Park racecourse that was in Zetland but closed in the 40s.

Do you think it looks better with no trees?

[3Puttpete]

You are looking from the wrong direction. The old pics are from the north. That racetrack is not Randwick, its the old Victoria Park racecourse that was in Zetland but closed in the 40s.

Do you think it looks better with no trees?

Thank you!

[jocker]

There is now housing between Randwick and the course, and a bloody great freeway through as well. I like the sandhills to the east

I heard that the members at The Australian had the proposed freeway re-routed to go through The Lakes. Old money trumps new money....

[jocker]

You are looking from the wrong direction. The old pics are from the north. That racetrack is not Randwick, its the old Victoria Park racecourse that was in Zetland but closed in the 40s.

Do you think it looks better with no trees?

It does look pretty darn good in my view. I think this is the right question now Westy - not whether it is a good course (it is), but whether it would be better if it did revert back to something that worked with the existing landscape, rather than against it.

I prefer The Lakes next door.

[Moe Norman]

Nearly all golf courses look better without trees.

[PerryGroves]

You are looking from the wrong direction. The old pics are from the north. That racetrack is not Randwick, its the old Victoria Park racecourse that was in Zetland but closed in the 40s.

Do you think it looks better with no trees?

Like the photo Westy, I had no idea there was a racetrack in Zetland.

Not sure if you are from Sydney, there is a Facebook page called "Lost Sydney" with a heap of great (well maybe good) photos from times past.

[Langswm]

Boring, predictable, cookie cutter etc etc. Like a lot of golf in Australia it seems a bit formulaic, and less than ideal use of good land.I don't really know if we have a "uniquely Australian" layout. I have only been to 2 sandbelt courses, and while they were good, they didn't live up to the hype for me. Like I said before, representing only 1.6% of the golfing landscape I might say they are uniquely Melbourne.You're kidding mate! Melb sandbelt courses are equal to anything else in the world...and I have played plenty of the best courses that Ireland, Scotland and England has to offer.

[benno_r]

You're kidding mate! Melb sandbelt courses are equal to anything else in the world...and I have played plenty of the best courses that Ireland, Scotland and England has to offer.

What does this have to do with the 98.4% of courses in Australia (ie, not sandbelt), of which a great percentage are formulaic?

I have played 2 sandbelt tracks, and I would not rate either of them in the top 10 courses I have played in the world. I am sure if I played in England and Scotland like you, they then wouldn't make my top 20.

[meh]

What does this have to do with the 98.4% of courses in Australia (ie, not sandbelt), of which a great percentage are formulaic?

I have played 2 sandbelt tracks, and I would not rate either of them in the top 10 courses I have played in the world. I am sure if I played in England and Scotland like you, they then wouldn't make my top 20.

Which ones did you play and what is your top 10 if they aren't in it?

Also, can you comment on my post in the customisation thread :)

[benno_r]

Which ones did you play and what is your top 10 if they aren't in it?

Also, can you comment on my post in the customisation thread :)

I played Woodlands and Victoria. Here are 10 courses I have played that I rate higher than both (in no particular order):

Barnbougle Dunes
Barnbougle Lost Farm
Titirangi
Kinloch
Cape Kidnappers
NSW GC
Royal Adelaide
Glenelg GC
St Andrews Beach
Capricorn Resort - Resort Course

Note: I don't rate course by architecture, I rate it by fun and my likely hood to travel there to play again. Almost all of these tracks I would go out of my way to play. Woodlands or Victoria not so much.

Note 2: Doesn't mean they are crap, means they are not my top 10.

[mrbluu]

I can't believe Cabra is not in the top 3!!

[backintheswing]

Where's Hamilton Island

[benno_r]

I can't believe Cabra is not in the top 3!!


Where's Hamilton Island
Anywhere I shoot 100+ is obviously a shit course.

[Moe Norman]

Apart from Glenelg and Capricorn, I'd suggest most of the golfing population would have the courses you list ahead of Vic and Woodlands including me. I personally found Kinloch to be ridiculous, but thats just personal opinion. Beautiful natural site with 18 unnatural holes, biggest claim to fame is how hard it is, not how fun it is.

Sorry for the nitpicking, but Woodlands isn't a sandbelt track anyway

[mrbluu]

Anywhere I shoot 100+ is obviously a shit course.
Sure, but I would have thought the pork rolls would have made up for that ;)

[Scifisicko]

Bit surprised St Andrews beach made your top 10. Its the very definition of a minimalist course. Pretty much clear the tea tree and plant some grass.

At least one of the good things about the design of the Austalian is you can see the pin from anywhere on the fairway. SAB is the opposite. More than half the time you cant even see the green.

[benno_r]

I guess in a round about we are getting back to my original point, which is that the sandbelt is not the quintessential "Australian" course, and the contrived and often "waste of a good space" course is more prevalent in this country.

Hence my original comment that the Australian GC is probably a better representation of Australian golf (along with Royal Pines), even though we wish that wasn't the case.


I personally found Kinloch to be ridiculous, but thats just personal opinion. Beautiful natural site with 18 unnatural holes, biggest claim to fame is how hard it is, not how fun it is.

And yes, Kinloch could have been better, but I had a great time, shot my Handicap (17 at the time).


Bit surprised St Andrews beach made your top 10. Its the very definition of a minimalist course. Pretty much clear the tea tree and plant some grass.

At least one of the good things about the design of the Austalian is you can see the pin from anywhere on the fairway. SAB is the opposite. More than half the time you cant even see the green.

I have nothing against any real kind of course, except any with bulk trees along the fairway (looking at you Yowani). But hot damn if I didn't have bulk fun at StAB.

[Moe Norman]

I think the comment that the Sandbelt is quintessential Australian golf is not suggesting it's representative of all Australian golf courses, but more that it presents quintessential Australian characteristics with a focus on natural/local vegetation etc.

So many golf courses waste space (and time and money) 'beautifying' their golf course with garden beds and other unneccessary and unnatural plantings, as well as having pop up sand traps, instead of bunkers. Bunkers being things cut into the ground, as opposed to what some courses call bunkers, despite them sitting higher than the playing surface!

[PeteyD]

And trees. Too many frigging trees.

[petethepilot]

Been to the poster children of Sandbelt golf? RM and Kingston Heath have the vegetation extremely parred back.
Big open spaces abound. Places like Commonwealth and Yarra have too many trees imho.
Woodlands btw would be classed as Definitely sand belt although probably in the 2nd/3rd tier of them.
It suffers atm from excessive crap underneath the tea tree and patchy condition.
A wayward ball should be findable on a sandbelt only difficult to advance forward.

The complexity of the bunkering, the firmness of the fairways
and the general strategy is what sets the top tier Sandbelt courses from the rest.

The only really decent course in QLD is RQ and the next best course prior to the Vic border is Newcastle GC.

Just my thoughts!

[thecollective]

The next best course prior to the Vic border is Newcastle GC.

PTP: bit harsh on old La Perouse! did you have a falling out with her?

Did she not live up to your expectations? her gorse bushes collect too many of your astray drifting balls?

Sacrebleu!

[petethepilot]

NSW has greatness and idiocy combined!

3,5,9,15,17,18 are all comprimised!

Could be great but it isn't. IMHO.

Btw, I have shot a low of 69 there and a high of 92!
The weather is everything but shots like the tee shot on 5 and 15 are outright stupid!

[wazamac]

"I don't rate course by architecture, I rate it by fun and my likely hood to travel there to play again.

+1
I haven't played a lot of courses around Australia, but the courses I like are the ones I have had the most fun on, no matter the score.

[meh]

No way is Newcastle better than NSW.

[Scifisicko]

Interestingly both designed by the same guy. Pete what don't you like about the 5th at NSW? Im always excited coming off 4 to play 5&6. One of the good things about nsw is its par 5s point all over the compass, compared to say Kingston heath where they all point south and are all 3 shotters into the sea breeze (while most of the long par 4s are driver short iron).

[petethepilot]

Have you played 5 into a southerly?

I also anticipate the 5th tee shot but the more you play it the more you realise how contrived it is.
Either over the hill/short iron (my least was a wedge) or a crazy shot from the hollow, tee side of the hill.
I have watched in person, Ozzie Moore purposely try and hit a driver on the head so that the ball will hug the ground.

That in itself is not the problem, its the unfindable bunda on the right over the hill that makes it stupid.
Into the wind one has very little capability to control the ball once it crests the hill and no real way of knowing where it goes!
Clean it out and make it scruffy but findable and the hole would improve immensely.

The view is amazing but as a hole it is bordering on ridiculous!

6 is also eye candy but is it really all world? Haven't played it since it was changed!
Haven't heard anybody justify the awfulness of 3, 15, 18 and 17 in a cross wind is a lottery!

Too many comprimised shots for me to get off on NSW. Great experience but not a great course imho.

[petethepilot]

Love the 11th 13 14 and 16 though!

[thecollective]

"I don't rate course by architecture, I rate it by fun and my likely hood to travel there to play again.

+1
I haven't played a lot of courses around Australia, but the courses I like are the ones I have had the most fun on, no matter the score.

+2

Fun for me is strategy - that is why RA is so much fun, it plays so differently depending on the conditions. Tree lined arrow golf is not fun - its one dimensional and boring. There is only one way to play the hole, so after a while it becomes predictable.

My current club is fighting this battle - the owner wants more trees down but a number of members - many with handicaps above 20 have contacted the council to block the move

[westy]

I think we have to be fair and acknowledge that most courses in the world have bunkers raised up, because they are not built on sand. Only a sand based course can have bunkers cut down as the sandy soil allows then to drain. on a clay course they would just fill up with water

Augusta National seems to do ok with bunkers raised up


I think the comment that the Sandbelt is quintessential Australian golf is not suggesting it's representative of all Australian golf courses, but more that it presents quintessential Australian characteristics with a focus on natural/local vegetation etc.

So many golf courses waste space (and time and money) 'beautifying' their golf course with garden beds and other unneccessary and unnatural plantings, as well as having pop up sand traps, instead of bunkers. Bunkers being things cut into the ground, as opposed to what some courses call bunkers, despite them sitting higher than the playing surface!

[Moe Norman]

There are raised bunkers, then there are RAISED bunkers. A bit of subtlety never hurt anyone!

Augusta's bunkers are hideous and not in keeping with the original design, big white bathtubs these days.

As for rating a course, not by architecture, but for fun - I don't understand this? Doesn't the architecture of the course determine how much fun you have?

[thecollective]

Doesn't the architecture of the course determine how much fun you have?

Correct, you have basically said it another way; good GCA creates strategy and multiple ways of playing a single hole, that makes a course fun because it can be played a number of different ways by a number of different skill levels.

St Andrews is the ultimate poster child of good GCA; easy to play but hard to master.

[WBennett]

As for rating a course, not by architecture, but for fun - I don't understand this? Doesn't the architecture of the course determine how much fun you have?

Kangaroo Valley GC will never win any architectural awards, but I have a blast every time I play there.

Its full of heroic carries, massive drops and steep climbs. Its fun.

[Moe Norman]

maybe it should then, sounds fun.

[Sydney Hacker]

Kangaroo Valley GC will never win any architectural awards, but I have a blast every time I play there. Its full of heroic carries, massive drops and steep climbs. Its fun. Always enjoyed playing Kangaroo Valley, it would make a good spot for an Ozgolf weekend with the cabins etc.

[gameboy]

sorry, lost track of the thread. did we work out if the aus is good or not? :)

[Coldtopper]

sorry, lost track of the thread. did we work out if the aus is good or not? :) A guy called Westy isn't rating it so it must be a shit hole!

[sms316]

sorry, lost track of the thread. did we work out if the aus is good or not? :)There are 30 courses ranked ahead of it so it can't be that special.

[PerryGroves]

sorry, lost track of the thread. did we work out if the aus is good or not? :)

It's not as bad as the sand belt Mafia would have you believe, equally it's nowhere near as good as what punters who like carpet type lies would have you believe.

[westy]

Now come on, I didn't say it wasn't good, I said it wasn't as good as the quality of its site would suggest it should be. I just don't think it suits the land

[Jazz18]

Now come on, I didn't say it wasn't good, I said it wasn't as good as the quality of its site would suggest it should be. I just don't think it suits the land

While all your posts didn't pile it on, I think if you have a look back through your posts here, you will see why someone might get the impression that you don't think it's good.

[Yossarian]

Someone that can't read maybe.

[westy]

I'm not alone

[fredstar]

My brother is a member and I have played it quite a bit recently. It's a great course.