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View Full Version : Sunshine Coast courses on the move??



AndyP
20th April 2006, 09:22 PM
Nambour and Horton Park Golf Clubs could both be changing locations.

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Nambour seeks approval for courses on caneland

12.04.2006

NAMBOUR Golf Club is investigating the possible sale of its course to developers and construction of two new courses on caneland at either Bli Bli or Woombye.
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/localnews/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3680246&thesection=localnews&thesubsection=

The club has been very open with the members about the possible move, so I knew about this quite some time ago.
Glen Cogill (Redcliffe Pro), who said he was a member there, told me that there was a similar proposal many years ago that got rejected because of the water levels. Apparently a creek used to run through the course (it's pretty obvious when the rain buckets down).
Will be plenty of time before anything happens, I would imagine, and it seems unlikely that I will still be a member then.

---------------------------

Members want to keep Horton Park in town

12.04.2006

HORTON Park Golf Club members say they are teed off about the fact the committee is entertaining the prospect of selling the course to developers.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/localnews/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3680247&thesection=localnews&thesubsection=

I didn't actually know about the Horton Park proposal, but the land would be worth a lot considering it's position in the middle of the Maroochydore commercial area.

Moe Norman
20th April 2006, 09:50 PM
i just enquired about joining Caloundra due to mt recent unit purchase and they want $1k noms and $750 subs, even for a holiday member!

I'll stick to Pelican Waters at $50 a game thanks!

AndyP
21st April 2006, 05:46 AM
Beerwah is pretty cheap for membership, I think, as is Woodford, but a bit more of a drive.

As is Nambour, at the moment. I mentioned Ross Watson's name to the manager when we were discussing the course proposal a couple of months. The design stage is a long way off, but he did mention Wayne Grady.
One of the proposed sites is in the Big Pineapple area (Woombye).

goughy
21st April 2006, 06:36 AM
Tell them to put it int he cane fields next to bli bli rd, about 2 mins before the castle. That way it'll be right opposite the inlaws. Straight from the 18th into their pool. What a life.

Moe Norman
21st April 2006, 06:44 AM
i wanted a course within 10 minutes drive of my unit. that limits me to Pelican and Caloundra.

My father in law is a member of Pelican so I get members guest rate of $50. Considering Caloundra is around $40 I'm best to just play Pelican alot until I get bored of it. If only they put a bridge from Bribie across to Golden Beach. I'd have Pac Harbour and Bribie GC on my doorstep.

BrisVegas
21st April 2006, 07:02 AM
get a boat Thommo and tear down the passage when you wanna play Pacific Harbour...

AndyP
21st April 2006, 07:27 AM
Marsh recently got locked in for the Horton Park gig.
Locked in? Are they that far along?


No idea yet with nambour but I think Dave Burrup might be doing initial planning works.
That sounds about right, g69. I seem to recall a proposed redevelopment of the current site with Burrup on it too.

amanda
21st April 2006, 02:03 PM
I lot of the older members aren't happy but the club is financially coughing up blood. In fact they said they could be gone in 5 years time. These developers aren't the bad guys that a lot of people make out. The golf clubs get their golf courses revamped and improved and in Mt Coolums case a brand new clubhouse too and money in the bank.
To me its a no brainer.
That must be a trait common to older members of clubs everywhere - we have the same objections at New Brighton!

Moe Norman
21st April 2006, 03:06 PM
get a boat Thommo and tear down the passage when you wanna play Pacific Harbour... believe me, the tinny has been considered.

problem is I'm trying to convince the father in law to buy it, but he prefers I play with him at Pelican so he isn't paying green fees at bribie or PH on top of the $3k or whatever it is for subs at Pelican!

but I'm working on some other schemes to ;)

markTHEblake
21st April 2006, 06:44 PM
Horton Park has had redevelopment rumours such as that for years and that article doesnt seem to include any new information. The land is supposedly valued at $70-80M which would provide more than enough to relocate and rebuild. Another rumour was to buy Twin Waters for $20M.

Several newsletters on the clubs website and on the noticeboard in the past refute that the Executive have ever had any serious discussions with developers.

There was also the railway plans that never eventuated that would have taken a chunk off one end of the course, around the 2nd green.

However its plainly obvious that developers are very interested in the site and likely have expressed interest to the club. Its clearly the prime development land in maroochydore.

One restraint to HP is that all the land Clubhouse side of the creek is held in trust donated by Old man Horton to be used for "recreation" only. therefore the club can never sell it. I am not sure however how the club has managed to sell a small portion of the practice fairway which has cashed them up with some serious dollars right now.

Its interesting to note that in 1982 when the club was on the virge of bankruptcy becuase they purchased land using foriegn currency loan (where the 14th & 15th is now) , i was at a SGM where the club voted on selling out to a developer who would rebuild the course on existing land plus a significant plot of adjoining land. The required 2/3's majority fell 1 vote short. The young members of the club were very dissapointed with that result, and blamed the old farts for there narrow mindedness.

However the club batted on and is now most likely the richest golf club on the sunshine coast sitting on the most valuable block of dirt. So all those years ago in hindsight the correct decision was made.

Maybe those old farts back then were right, and now the guys who voted for it back then will be the old farts who want to stay put now.

You cant put a price on location - my vote, if i was still a member there would be to stay put. They can get enough money from a couple of subdivions to fund purchase of more swamp out the back. And what the hell would a golf club do with a $50M surplus anyway :-)

As for Nambour, would they get enough money for their land - its not as if its all that usable?

AndyP
21st April 2006, 06:51 PM
One restraint to HP is that all the land Clubhouse side of the creek is held in trust donated by Old man Horton to be used for "recreation" only. therefore the club can never sell it. Similar to Vic Park, yet council seems to keep chipping away at bits of that.

You have to wonder if clubs give up their location too easy, and are sacrificing membership who prefer something closer rather than driving out bush.


As for Nambour, would they get enough money for their land - its not as if its all that usable? The offer is new clubhouse, 36 holes and practice facilities, so I guess it's not about getting money.
But I agree, the land isn't that usable, and you wouldn't imagine Nambour as being a hot spot on the Coast.

Golfgirl
3rd May 2006, 12:15 PM
I have heard this rumour about Horton Park, and made a few phone calls subsequently, and as far as I am aware there is nothing but rumour in it....

MTB is right - the land was donated for "recreation only" use, and I think that as it is the only green belt in the CBD, it will be difficult for it to be sold off for development.

The story does make an appearance every few years, and I guess I would never say "never", but it does seem unlikely in the short term. I, personally, hope to see the course stay indefintely - I think it is a gem of a club course in a great spot.

markTHEblake
1st June 2006, 09:33 PM
didn't i just see on the news that there is a proposal to put a bloody great road through the guts of Horton Park golf course ??????

Pure political speculation by the looks of the story below, there is also another story about some serious money being thrown at them right now, and nothing to do with the $7M they just got for a bit of practice fairway.

http://news.google.com.au/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=%22horton+park%22+golf+club&btnG=Search+News

AndyP
4th July 2006, 02:23 PM
Nambour Course Relocation Update



Government has legislated that a buffer zone of 500 metres should exist between any residential development and a hard rock quarry. Such a 500 metre buffer zone from the Parkland quarry owned by Neill Mansell extends to well into our golf course from the north west, and takes out quite a significant parcel of land. This then erodes the economic attractiveness of our land to any potential developer.

Currently Club Management is negotiating with the quarry owners over a number of potential outcomes which may provide some solutions to yet another hurdle in this process.


For those that have played there, the quarry zone talked about is in between the 12th and 13th.

It's looking more and more unlikely that Nambour will be moving.

andylo
4th July 2006, 02:58 PM
isn't it is a good thing?

AndyP
4th July 2006, 03:13 PM
18 hole course that has no room for expansion, limited practice facilities and an old clubhouse
OR
36 hole course designed from scratch, full practice facilities and a brand new clubhouse, that will cost the club nothing.

You tell me.

andylo
4th July 2006, 03:14 PM
but which one closer to me :p

AndyP
18th August 2006, 11:17 AM
Horton Park's potential move is definitely more than a rumour now. It's going to a vote on Sept 5.
Plenty of stories via the link Blakey supplied above.

http://news.google.com.au/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=%22horton+park%22+golf+club&btnG=Search+News

The move would be 8km away from the Maroochydore CBD, where it is currently located, to Eudlo Flats, and include 36 holes, driving range, and three practice holes.
There's also been talk of a free golf membership for the next five years and $500 to $5000 in incentives when they move for each current member.

I've also heard talk of free shuttle buses from the current site to the new site for at least two years.

This looks very tempting for the members.

AndyP
18th August 2006, 11:32 AM
I've just confirmed the location of Eudlo Flats for myself, and it's out the back of Kunda Park, which is in between Maroochydore and the Big Pineapple.

This was also the proposed sort of area for Nambour's move. I wouldn't think that both could move there as 72 holes in the same area may be a little too much.

AndyP
18th August 2006, 02:52 PM
Just reading a story....I believe HP sold a bit of land in 2004 for 7 Mil and got developed. Now they want to pack up and move the course. I bet those new residents must be happy.
Yep, and the developers of that property are threatening to sue because they advertised it as golf course frontage, etc.

BrisVegas
18th August 2006, 02:54 PM
geez, hope they don't move Brookwater!

markTHEblake
18th August 2006, 08:36 PM
Might of mentioned this before, but this is deja vu 1982. the same vote was put to the club to allow a developer to rebuild the golf course (a Peter Thomson job) - half on existing land and half on adjacent land. 2/3's majority failed by one vote, and it was the old members who came out of the woodwork to vote that down, and the younger generation was shocked and angry.

It wouldnt surprise me if the same generation who supported that vote are this time against it.

If i was stil a member I dont know what i would do. As a young kid i would ride my bike to the golf club in the AM, practice, ride to school, and back to the club to practice again till dark. Once the course is out in the sticks no kids will be riding their bikes to golf anymore.

But times have changed, in my day there, everyone I knew lived within 2-3 k's of the course, Now I know members who are living 30 or more kms a way. I dont think too many kids ride their bikes to golf anymore.

If i was living withing minutes of the course - I'd definitely vote No.

AndyP
18th August 2006, 08:53 PM
Blakey, I used to ride my bike to Horton Park for the short time that I was a junior member there too. I'd strap the handle of the golf buggy to the rack on the back of the bike and away I'd go. Wasn't the safest thing, and I had my fair share of stacks from it too.
In hindsight, I wish I had of taken up junior golf instead of just using it as an avenue for cheap social golf.

markTHEblake
9th September 2006, 01:19 PM
Horton Park is goooooo.......going.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=%22horton+park%22&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d

Members accepted the land swap plus cash deal. Amazing that they have gone from almost bankrupt to perhaps the richest club in the state.

goughy
9th September 2006, 01:53 PM
If it goes ahead. And if they get sued then they could become poor real fast.

AndyP
9th September 2006, 09:27 PM
Doesn't look like it is all done and dusted yet.

AndyP
9th November 2006, 09:45 AM
This is Nambours newsletter for this month, although it's not necessarily new news.


Mt Coolum Golf Club members will soon be asked to vote on a proposed $12 million redevelopment. To be undertaken by Horizon Living, this redevelopment will see 287 units, 41 detached dwellings and a community centre built on 6.3 hectares of land currently used by their 10th and 11th holes.


In return, Horizon will provide Mt Coolum with a new clubhouse and oversee the construction of seven new holes on 8.5 hectares of land.

"Negotiations have been ongoing with Horizon over the last 20 months." The total project would take three to five years to complete, with the Development Application process to take around 15 months from lodgement date.




Horton Park Golf Cub members have voted overwhelmingly to relocate the course to Kunda Park, about eight kilometres away. The special meeting was attended by 717 of the club’s 997 eligible voting members, with a clear 76% of attending members voting in favour of the relocation. Conditions insisted on were:






any relocation would cost the club nothing;

the new course would consist of a minimum of 36 holes;

the new course be located within a 10 kilometre radius of the existing club;

a seamless transition would take place between the two facilities; and

advice from Ernst & Young that the Babcock & Brown offer was the best alternative.


B & B made an additional offer to the club to provide

$63 million to the club to purchase land and complete the new development. As an additional benefit to club members, B & B offered to pay all membership fees for full members during the period from the date of the vote to the date of relocation.

Additionally, a start-up member credit account would be provided at the new facility based on $500 per member, per year of membership to a maximum of $5000 per member.




The main sticking point with Nambour's potential movement is that there is an active quarry across the road, and there can be no residential developments within 500m. I think it will be quite a while before anything happens.

AndyP
8th May 2007, 01:58 PM
Mt Coolum update from their site (http://www.mtcoolumgolf.com/) on 30/4.

"Yesterday the Club held a SGM to vote on the Development of the Club. Over 400 members attended the meeting with the result of over 80% voting in favour of the motion. Great outcome and is the start of some exciting times at Mount Coolum Golf Club."

Article:
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/localnews/storydisplay.cfm?storyid=3732360&thesection=localnews&thesubsection=&thesecondsubsection=

What's the latest news you have, g69? When would the work be going ahead?

I'm actually looking to play the course on the Saturday of the Queen's Birthday weekend for the Mt Coolum Open. I'll make a call and maybe start a thread for it soon.

AndyP
15th June 2007, 02:13 PM
Mt Coolum Plans

http://www.rosswatson.com.au/coolum/Masterplan_060706.pdf

No existing holes kept. It looks like there are some nasty ones in there.

markTHEblake
23rd July 2007, 09:25 PM
Had a good look a the plans for the new Horton Park GC yesterday, it is impressive and it will be the best golf facility in Qld, no question about that.

36 holes, plus huge driving range and 3 full length practice holes. I think the only thing that comes close is Indooroopilly. No Housing or any land provisioned for future development.

The exact location is in the centre of this map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Maroochydore+QLD,+Australia&ie=UTF8&cd=1&mpnum=0&ll=-26.662685,153.027406&spn=0.02769,0.03253&t=h&z=15&om=1), the land in between Ti Tree rd, Maroochydore rd, Currajong rd, and rafting Ground rd. Obviously ex-sugar cane farmland.

There will be some water but not a lot (compared to other new golf courses) most of the water is adjacent to Maroochydore road.

A new 4 lane rd will be built alongside Maroochydore Rd.

Was interesting to talk to some of my old freinds there, opinion differs widely. Whilst most want it (75% voted for it), and most realise that its simply progress, and the fact is the council wants to kick them out anyway. The main objection appears to be how will the club be able to cover the running costs for 39 holes. Sure they will be flush with funds but any business owner knows your expenses need to be covered by cash flow not capital.

I think that the clubhouse will end up a white elephant. Nobody will ever by there. Like most qld golf clubs there is no longer any social atmosphere, golfers simply dont wait around after golf anymore, and i think it will be worse out there, even though its only 8kms out of town.

The club still has a legal action (or probably legal action) by the owners of the apartments that were built on the practice fairway with awesome golf course views, as there was some undertaking (apparently) by the club when they sold the land for about $8M that the golf course wasnt for sale.

IMHO I think the club could have sold off half the land, kept a clubhouse and 9 hole golf course there, and still have the money to build 36 holes elswhere. After all about 60 or 70% of the land has to be retained as open space by the new owner anyway. This way the club still retains its local identity, and access as a social venue.

markTHEblake
23rd July 2007, 09:43 PM
An interesting scenario had developed at HP recently. On the 16th hole 180m par 3 had to be shortened to 120m because of complaints of golf balls hitting a house. This means two consecutive Par 3's totalling about 225m altogether.

This house was adjacent to the service gate and it had to be a shank to hit it plus make it through all the trees. A Ridiculous complaint really as that hole has been unchanged for 36 years.

The club had the option of installing a huge fence at some astronomical 6 figure cost, or shortening the hole.

Instead they did the next best thing, rented the house themselves, and let one of the members live there, and he is a sort of caretaker for the club.

I guess stuff like that is easy when you got $7m in the bank.

AndyP
24th December 2007, 08:37 PM
Chancellor Park Pitch 'n Putt is gone. I don't know how long for, but I spent 15mins driving around looking for it, before working out it no longer existed. It was in a pretty ordinary location, but it's surprising that there is no pitch 'n putt course on the Sunshine Coast that I know of now, although there are quite a few par 3 courses. I never got around to playing it.

I ended up taking Mitch to mini-putt. The design was poor and the risk/reward elements were very ordinary. ;)

Rusty
30th December 2007, 10:45 PM
trust that the first lesson you're giving him is in course management

AndyP
30th December 2007, 11:22 PM
Always fun first, Rusty. ;)

AndyP
2nd December 2009, 12:02 PM
HP are still waiting and may not get as much as they initially thought.
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2009/11/05/golf-club-move-delayed-one-year/

g69, did the Mt Coolum changes fall through?

I doubt anything has changed on the Nambour front either.

markTHEblake
2nd December 2009, 08:50 PM
I think its obvious they wont get the original value, but in a few years it might not matter. They are only going to joint venture with a developer, so they get to share in the overall profit, rather than sell out like many others have for $1 and a free golf course.

Example is Darwin GC. they got a great golf course and no cash, and from memory a little over 10 years later was struggling, and nothing has changed since.

AndyP
22nd December 2009, 09:08 PM
Nambour aren't exactly stopping progress for any potential move. There seems to be quite a bit of works around the place.

http://www.nambourgolfclub.com.au/contents/4794t

I might go and check it out on Saturday, unless I get a better offer. Some of it looks good, while other bits look like they could be stupid. The 6th hole in particular. Lengthening it to 130m is good. The tunnel shot that the camera shows is ridiculous, and would potentially take the newly built bunker out of play.

Rusty
22nd December 2009, 09:53 PM
no chance for a fade on that 6th hole now. 18 must be a bit that way too, especially with those palm trees down the left.

AndyP
12th July 2010, 09:30 PM
An update on the Horton Park GC potential move. Will it ever happen? It has been happening for some time now.
I also though that the land was more towards Diddillibah, not Forest Glen.

http://69.164.206.89/assets/0007/6203/Relocation_Update_June_2010.pdf

markTHEblake
12th July 2010, 10:29 PM
I thought the site that they had options on was here (http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Currajong+Road,+Kunda+Park,+Queensland&sll=-26.65699,153.030624&sspn=0.013711,0.016994&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Currajong+Rd,+Kunda+Park+Queensland+4556&ll=-26.658083,153.03247&spn=0.013711,0.016994&t=h&z=16) at the end of Currajong rd, and the main part of the course is to the east side of the river in that map. I'd assume the development plan is still on display in the clubhouse and we can look at it this weekend.

I do recall that the option to purchase this land was expiring long before B&B dropped the bundle, so who knows if they still have an option to buy it. My guess though, is that the land is low lying canefields, and has next to zero use for anything but, so unlikely to be sold to someone else.

sms316
11th November 2010, 09:19 AM
Received a letter from the owner of Pelican Waters yesterday about a possible colaboration with Horton Park. This letter doesn't really say too much, but I can't see why Pelican Waters would go out of their way to associate themselves with Horton Park. It is a totally different demographic.

My first thought as a member is what exactly do the members at Pelican get out of this and the answer is not much at all, given that Horton is just a basic run of the mill golf course. I couldn't imagine that too many members at Pelican would want to go out of their way to play at Horton. Of course the owner sees it as a new way to increase revenue, probably via some kind of partial reciprocal agreement. The old tightarses at HP won't go out of their way to shell out over $50 for green fees in a hurry.

And then there is the fact that I don't want to see too many of the pricks either. ;)

The last I heard about the move for Horton was that the Kunda Park deal was in deep shit. The club had to forego it's right to the land in that the current owners were free to sell to whoever they wanted as HP couldn't guarantee a sale within an acceptable timeframe.

If they move anywhere in the future I would put money on them finally getting a deal for the sale of their current site and then them making an offer to Twin Waters which they cannot refuse. Having said that they need to get the deal over the line with the members and with so many of them putting self interest ahead of the betterment of the club I just can't see it happening.

Moe Norman
11th November 2010, 09:24 AM
How is it a totally different demographic?

you're a member of Pelican, which isn't painting a pretty picture of the demographics!

sms316
11th November 2010, 09:27 AM
How is it a totally different demographic?

you're a member of Pelican, which isn't painting a pretty picture of the demographics!

You don't see too many whining pensioners at Pelican.

Sydney Hacker
11th November 2010, 09:34 AM
You don't see too many whining pensioners at Pelican.

Just whining younger people ?

Moe Norman
11th November 2010, 10:34 AM
Nope, don't see many member at Pelican at all.

which is probably why they're looking for new revenue sources

sms316
11th November 2010, 10:39 AM
Nope, don't see many member at Pelican at all.

which is probably why they're looking for new revenue sources

I think when I joined there was around 400 members. Now over 500 and aiming for 577. Comp fields are certainly fuller.

The condition of the course day in day out is fantastic, which I gather was not the case in the past. They'll have over 600 next year I guess.

AndyP
11th November 2010, 11:29 AM
Who aims for 577? Why not 582?

Horton post updates of their relocation status on their website. It doesn't look like it is going anywhere in a hurry, with developers hoping for financial help from Govt (refused) or Council.

Moe Norman
11th November 2010, 11:42 AM
I think when I joined there was around 400 members. Now over 500 and aiming for 577. Comp fields are certainly fuller.

The condition of the course day in day out is fantastic, which I gather was not the case in the past. They'll have over 600 next year I guess.

have they altered costs somehow, whats with the influx?

my FIL has been a member since the day it opened and has never played a single comp there!

BrisVegas
11th November 2010, 11:55 AM
Having now played Horton Park, I can see that it would be better used for housing/commercial redevelopment.

sms316
11th November 2010, 01:10 PM
have they altered costs somehow, whats with the influx?

my FIL has been a member since the day it opened and has never played a single comp there!
Not sure exactly for the reasoning of influx. I'm sure part of it is people like me who have moved to the area and have decided that it is the best alternative. They also do quite a lot of local promotion in local magazines etc. From what I gather, Caloundra GC is hopelesssly over-subscribed to the point of it being difficult to get a game on a Saturday.

I don't think you can underestimate the value of the quality of staff they have their either. The GM is one of the best I have come across. The greens staff do a magnificent job and the bar staff, well... they speak for themselves. Any person who goes there walks away happy now.

It is $1750 for a walking membership and $2450 for full which includes carts and unlimited range balls. No joining fee.

The 577 is some kind of marketing wank. No idea what that is supposed to mean.

Moe Norman
11th November 2010, 01:34 PM
No joining fee, there is the kicker.

I'm pretty sure the FIL paid $10k+ joining fee about 10 years ago....

PeteyD
11th November 2010, 01:37 PM
One more than 576.

markTHEblake
11th November 2010, 05:49 PM
Received a letter from the owner of Pelican Waters yesterday about a possible colaboration with Horton Park. This letter doesn't really say too much

It would be interesting to find out what actually the collaboration would be, not sure what would be a mutual benefit. Even post GFC Horton Park is going to end up with so much money that they could buy Twin Waters with their spare change, in fact they probably have enough cash to buy it now.


The last I heard about the move for Horton was that the Kunda Park deal was in deep shit. The club had to forego it's right to the land in that the current owners were free to sell to whoever they wanted as HP couldn't guarantee a sale within an acceptable timeframe.I cant see anyone lining up to buy that swamp, my guess is that the owners only real hope is for HP. Recent newspaper articles have also indicated the land to the west of the bridge over the river betwen the road and Bli Bli a potential site, as well as any other sugar cane farm in the area (the mill has closed right?)


If they move anywhere in the future I would put money on them finally getting a deal for the sale of their current site and then them making an offer to Twin Waters which they cannot refuse. Having said that they need to get the deal over the line with the members and with so many of them putting self interest ahead of the betterment of the club I just can't see it happening.The same blokes probably voted for the development of the course land in 1982 (which failed by one vote) although that still had the course on the same site almost, just all on the other side of the creek. IN any case the members wishes are moot, the indications are that the govt will take the land off them eventually.

AndyP
11th November 2010, 07:35 PM
Seven Local News (with Rob Brough) reported on the Twin Waters-Horton Park subject tonight.

markTHEblake
11th November 2010, 08:34 PM
Probably cos it was in the paper today
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2010/11/11/golf-club-offers-28m-for-course-horton-park/

I am surprised that they would pay $28M for that golf course, given that over the last 10 years several golf courses of similar type were sold from anything between $3M and $7M

AndyP
11th November 2010, 08:49 PM
I am surprised that they would pay $28M for that golf course, given that over the last 10 years several golf courses of similar type were sold from anything between $3M and $7M

In June 2005 Twin Waters Golf Club was sold by Lend Lease to the current owner for $7.9M.
It is ratepayer's money in the first place, so spend, spend, spend.

markTHEblake
11th November 2010, 09:08 PM
It doesnt matter if its ratepayers money once its in HP's hands its their money, they have the right to get fair value.

No matter which way you look at it, surely the HP land is worth far more than Twin Waters plus $10M, which they would spend on the upgrades, and still only have 18 holes for all those members. $28M seems so unrealistic,. has any course in Australia been sold for anything like that before?

AndyP
11th November 2010, 09:14 PM
Do they really need 36 holes anyway? Shouldn't we be cutting down on the number of golf courses?

sms316
12th November 2010, 08:27 AM
It doesnt matter if its ratepayers money once its in HP's hands its their money, they have the right to get fair value.

No matter which way you look at it, surely the HP land is worth far more than Twin Waters plus $10M, which they would spend on the upgrades, and still only have 18 holes for all those members. $28M seems so unrealistic,. has any course in Australia been sold for anything like that before?
If HP get anything like what they are looking for it will dwarf $28M. They will be in a position to make Twin Waters an offer that they can't refuse and still have plenty left over.

Remember that the cost for the Kunda Park development would be over $300M.

markTHEblake
12th November 2010, 05:42 PM
Remember that the cost for the Kunda Park development would be over $300M.

Serious? I suppose the developer was footing that bill entirely, because HP was not going to get even half that for the sale of the land.

sms316
12th November 2010, 05:46 PM
Serious? I suppose the developer was footing that bill entirely, because HP was not going to get even half that for the sale of the land.

Cost of roads, construction of course, supply of amenities etc. $300M easily. Not going to get that at the moment so that is why it is on the back burner.

markTHEblake
15th November 2010, 10:19 PM
Here is the latest on the Horton Park saga, if I was a member still I would be beside myself
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2010/11/15/golf-clubs-officials-say-council-under-govt-pressu/

Basically they beleive that if they do not cave in to the Councils offer and pay the exhorbitant asking price for Twin Waters they will cease to exist.

And SMS there is the clarification for you on the 'potential' business arrangement with Pelican Waters.

Moe Norman
15th November 2010, 10:46 PM
I wouldn't have though that the Houghton Park site would be worth much more than $39m. Thats probably about market price really, how big is the site exactly?

Not going to get huge yields in there even with a bit of density, it's still Maroochydoore at the end of the day

markTHEblake
15th November 2010, 11:57 PM
I wouldn't have though that the Houghton Park site would be worth much more than $39m. Thats probably about market price really, how big is the site exactly?

I have go no idea what the land is worth, but as vacant land its worth one amount, but the development potential is a lot more. The owners deserve to share in that value. It would be interesting to see what the projected profit share of 20% would add up too, albeit speculative.

The thing that is disturbing me the most is the purchase price of $28m for Twin Waters, That is a joke considering that they are also are considering buying Pelican Waters for about 1/4 of that. The article refers that such a purchase would be made using using 'investment funds'. Well that is obviously the $7M that they have in the bank from the sale of a small piece of land, next to the practice fairway, (which can only be spent by a members vote)

sms316
23rd November 2010, 11:19 AM
I have go no idea what the land is worth, but as vacant land its worth one amount, but the development potential is a lot more. The owners deserve to share in that value. It would be interesting to see what the projected profit share of 20% would add up too, albeit speculative.

The thing that is disturbing me the most is the purchase price of $28m for Twin Waters, That is a joke considering that they are also are considering buying Pelican Waters for about 1/4 of that. The article refers that such a purchase would be made using using 'investment funds'. Well that is obviously the $7M that they have in the bank from the sale of a small piece of land, next to the practice fairway, (which can only be spent by a members vote)

My mail is that Horton Park aren't buying Pelican Waters, but rather a member is pissed off about TW so he is looking at buying PW himself.

Mal Robertson and Sean Somers (the professionals at HP) will be the big losers here. The professional at TW has a 15 year lease there so it is hard to see how Mal & Sean can get anything out of the deal.


Motion for the special AGM is here;

http://i55.tinypic.com/b4ycns.jpg

just
23rd November 2010, 11:25 AM
My mail is that Horton Park aren't buying Pelican Waters, but rather a member is pissed off about TW so he is looking at buying PW himself.

Mal Robertson and Sean Somers (the professionals at HP) will be the big losers here. The professional at TW has a 15 year lease there so it is hard to see how Mal & Sean can get anything out of the deal.


Motion for the special AGM is here;
It's pretty simple, they can write clauses into the contract to give the current pro the arse before sale completion and it's then up to the seller to work out how to get rid of them (eg. compensation). Not saying they would but they could. That's the simplified version.

Moe Norman
23rd November 2010, 12:02 PM
I have go no idea what the land is worth, but as vacant land its worth one amount, but the development potential is a lot more. The owners deserve to share in that value. It would be interesting to see what the projected profit share of 20% would add up too, albeit speculative.



Excuse me? Share in profits and value? On what planet?

If they want to share the profits/value, they can sign a development agreement and not sell the land. Or they can develop it themselves.

Since when should a vendor get anything other than the land value in a property development transaction?

The developer takes all the risk, makes all the funding arrangements, does all the selling, is open to market fluctuations, funding issues, approval delays, construction delays/cost variations.

The price of the land already takes into account potential returns, thats why land with a DA is worth more than land without a DA. I can't believe they potentially take a profit share, and if they do, it should reduce the land value significantly or just make it $0 and go into JV/Development Fee arrangements.

markTHEblake
23rd November 2010, 06:09 PM
I'll admit I am a complete nuffie on the topic Thommo! I agree you are right , but that is why they are getting $39M instead of $13M (the unimproved value) by reading between the lines. It is a really good deal for the club until we get to the bit that a 'foreigner' is going to shaft the club out of whatever good deal they had.

To think that HPGC was in a position to realistically purchase TW outright over the last decade or so for cash or near enough, and now they get it but lose the entire value of what they once had.

I would like to have seen the council show some balls and let the club tell TW to shove it up there arse, and resume/purchase that old sugar cane patch over the bridge, and let HPGC build their own, they would have development potential there as well to keep them going in the future.

How much does it cost to build a 18 hole golf course these days? (not including any residential infrastructure). I recall that Emerald Lakes was built on a fairly low budget, admittadly there was already a golf course there which would have helped. I seem to recall a figure of $20M being thrown about and one of the designers saying nowhere near that much

troyboy
24th November 2010, 10:56 AM
i hope horton park dont buy twin waters.
twin waters is awesome as it is now. if they buy the club they will bring all their members and ruin twin waters. as there will be way too many people there and traffic will be horrible and they will jack up green fees too i would suspect.

markTHEblake
24th November 2010, 09:57 PM
Thanks, but Twin Waters was already way overpriced. But dont worry about the green fees, you wont be able to get on anymore, the course will be full!

troyboy
24th November 2010, 11:05 PM
$32 for 9 holes is pretty good for a course of that quality. thing i love atm about twin waters it is quiet. if horton park come in the course is done for the public. the only choice to play is mt coolum and there will be no driving range around either.

Sydney Hacker
25th November 2010, 07:21 AM
$32 for 9 holes is pretty good for a course of that quality. thing i love atm about twin waters it is quiet. if horton park come in the course is done for the public. the only choice to play is mt coolum and there will be no driving range around either.

Or join Horton Park Golf Club.

sms316
25th November 2010, 07:45 AM
Or join Horton Park Golf Club.

They've actually closed membership for the moment. Will be interesting to see if they choose to start a waiting list or continue to over-populate the membership and course. It would probably be the latter due to the constitution saying that any membership price rise can only happen after approval by the members. While the members don't want to pay a reasonable fee, they will always have to have too many members.

It is a physical impossibility to play a comp at HP in under 4:20. They play 6 minute intervals on a 2 tee start for 2:10 on each side.

Moe Norman
25th November 2010, 09:08 AM
I'll admit I am a complete nuffie on the topic Thommo! I agree you are right , but that is why they are getting $39M instead of $13M (the unimproved value) by reading between the lines. It is a really good deal for the club until we get to the bit that a 'foreigner' is going to shaft the club out of whatever good deal they had.

The price will reflect what a developer is willing to pay for it, taking into account the return they will get. When someone says it's a $300m development, the profit sure as hell isn't $300m!

No idea how big the site is and what sort of density they can achieve, but $39m does sound like a good price. In sold 4,061m2 on Alice St in Brisbane last year for $37m, but the site had unlimited height restrictions...



How much does it cost to build a 18 hole golf course these days? (not including any residential infrastructure). I recall that Emerald Lakes was built on a fairly low budget, admittadly there was already a golf course there which would have helped. I seem to recall a figure of $20M being thrown about and one of the designers saying nowhere near that much

No idea. What is stopping HP using their own cash to build a new track though?

sms316
25th November 2010, 04:41 PM
No idea. What is stopping HP using their own cash to build a new track though?

$300M or so was the figure I heard. When you factor in roads, electricity, sewerage on top of earthworks it adds up very quicky.

markTHEblake
25th November 2010, 05:28 PM
No idea how big the site is and what sort of density they can achieve, but $39m does sound like a good price.

The site is 6000m course, plus open space that was once another 4 holes, if that gives you an idea.


No idea. What is stopping HP using their own cash to build a new track though?
No idea, would seem urgency is dictating the transaction, it almost sounds like if they accept the deal it would be a matter of only weeks. Gee if it was me i would be lobbying a plan to take the $39M and go it alone, plus they already have $7M in the bank. Who cares if they are out of a golf course for a year with that money in your kick, and there is plenty of land around (old sugar cane farms)


$300M or so was the figure I heard. When you factor in roads, electricity, sewerage on top of earthworks it adds up very quicky.

I think you must be referring to the development of the old site and not a new course, that would be impossible for anyone to pay.

A little birdie told me a new course can be built for $10M easily, and then add whatever you like for the clubhouse (assuming the site is not stupid and requiress massive earthworks)

markTHEblake
26th November 2010, 08:08 AM
The vote failed, by about a handful of votes. the main objection was the money going to twin waters.

sms316
26th November 2010, 08:20 AM
The vote failed, by about a handful of votes. the main objection was the money going to twin waters.

Ha! I wonder how many voted against it on the basis of having to drive an extra 5 minutes to golf?

Short-sighted dickheads.

sms316
26th November 2010, 08:31 AM
I was working on a deal with Mt Coolum a couple of years ago. They were going to sell of a chunk of land for retirement living and build 6 or 7 new holes to the south to compensate.
The developer was on board but the greenies knocked back the deal as the new land needed some tree clearing (which was fundamentally a shit swamp with regrowth from the 70's).
When the deal went bad someone half heartedly said they should sell the whole course to a developer and go buy TW.

I reckon Mt Coolum and Horton should put their heads together and share the 36 hole new place. I don't think 36 holes is a great alternative for just one club but if the two join forces it can make make a lot more sense.

I can imagine that Mt Coolum site being worth a fair chunk of change.

Not the silliest idea. I could imagine the deal being all but done and then failing because all of the old coots couldn't agree on a name for the new site.

markTHEblake
26th November 2010, 08:35 AM
SMS it was a crap deal and you know it! If the deal was seperated into two votes, with the sale to council and the purchase of Twin waters considerded seperately the sale may have been accepted. A side issue to that is the council does not have the money.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2010/11/26/golf-course-council-land-buy-maroochydore/

Old mate says that Pelican Waters is for sale for $9M and there is some discussion that could be bought with the money they have in the bank right now. The thinking is that will be a nice backup should things not go their way later.


I reckon Mt Coolum and Horton should put their heads together and share the 36 hole new place. I don't think 36 holes is a great alternative for just one club but if the two join forces it can make make a lot more sense.Good point, one of the members said some time ago he did not think the club could sustain the costs of 36 holes.

markTHEblake
26th November 2010, 09:18 AM
Tell me again why the 36 hole deal on the new land got shot down..or is it still an option ?
Babcock and Brown was the developer, the GFC sent them broke.
Lend Lease took over but that deal did not eventuate.
The options to purchase the original site have long expired, however unlikely the owner would be able to sell to any other development anyway, so i think it remains an option for them. The local council has flat refused to allow any sugar cane land be developed for housing.

If the members chose to sell the land last night they were obligated to pay 2.5M to one of the above and 1M to the other.

markTHEblake
26th November 2010, 09:49 AM
So council are kicking the club off their land. Is that correct, they have to move on at some point ?
That is the implied threat from the council. Their seems to be an immediate desire for them to put a road through the course (not sure why)


Yet they cannot buy cane land for golf. What the hell else land is up there to buy ?
as the council is desperate to develop the site, am sure they will allow cane land to be converted to golf as part of the overall deal, as it is still open space.

PeteyD
26th November 2010, 10:02 AM
The road will be an improvement.

sms316
26th November 2010, 10:18 AM
Big day for Horton Park yesterday with one of their club sponsors getting arrested.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2010/11/25/man-handcuffed-after-work-spat/

markTHEblake
26th November 2010, 10:24 AM
The road is still there. (between 9 and 10 and across 11) :-)
The golfers used to play accross the road.
this pic shows the original 9, the location of current car park & driving range is at the bottom of the pic, 18th is on the left.
Also all the land clubhouse side of the creek was donated in trust for the purpose of public use for sport. This is possibly a reason why the council will have to leave most of this area as open space, otherwise there will be more court battles i guess.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7833/screenshot20101126at261.png

troyboy
26th November 2010, 11:45 AM
hpgc should buy pelican waters or build a new course.


i hope they dont go anywhere near twin waters or mt coolum.

troyboy
26th November 2010, 11:59 AM
that wouldnt work that great.

i still think hpgc should build there own course or buy pelican waters.

markTHEblake
26th November 2010, 02:27 PM
i hope they dont go anywhere near twin waters or mt coolum.

I think i know you, used to be a member at headland right?

sms316
26th November 2010, 02:35 PM
For a moment I thought it was Trent Crystal, but there isn't enough spelling errors.

troyboy
26th November 2010, 03:07 PM
never been a member

was about to get a membership at twin waters a few months back but i heard of hpgc buying it and decided against it.

plus if hpgc get around mt coolum or twin waters good luck getting on.


the big piece of land near the bridge is perfect for a course imo. or buy pelican waters at less then 10 mil. im shocked is so cheap, with money left over they can split between members. if they want to go atleast they have the money to get membership somewhere else.

btw. traffic is bad near twin waters as it is atm. imagine a extra 1000+ members to the course. yikes.

troyboy
26th November 2010, 04:06 PM
why do Maroochydore need a new cbd i dont know. kawana island i thought was supposed to be the new cbd or something.

sms316
26th November 2010, 07:02 PM
why do Maroochydore need a new cbd i dont know. kawana island i thought was supposed to be the new cbd or something.

It doesn't have one now. Sunshine Plaza is all that Maroochydore really has so it makes sense to build around it.

markTHEblake
26th November 2010, 08:11 PM
never been a member
Well you sound a lot like one.

troyboy
26th November 2010, 08:43 PM
It doesn't have one now. Sunshine Plaza is all that Maroochydore really has so it makes sense to build around it.


across the road from officeworks they are supposed to be adding good guys and harvey norman. from what i've heard.

AndyP
26th November 2010, 09:49 PM
Harvey Norman has had a site on the road leading in from the motorway for some time.

Maroochydore had a CBD in Ocean St / Duporth Ave. It died. What has changed to suggest that a CBD is needed now?


Tapatalk has a smooth, rich flavour; and the new design wings have stopped leakage.

sms316
27th November 2010, 05:55 AM
Harvey Norman has had a site on the road leading in from the motorway for some time.

Maroochydore had a CBD in Ocean St / Duporth Ave. It died. What has changed to suggest that a CBD is needed now?


Not sure exactly. Caloundra doesn't have one. I've only been to Noosa once, and I don't think it had one. Perhaps Maroochydore are setting themsleves to be the "capital" of the Sunshine Coast. It makes sense I guess. The airport is there, and given the population growth in the area it is inevitible that larger business come in and people treat the area as a city and not a regional area.

sms316
30th November 2010, 07:22 PM
A couple of stories from today's Sunny Coast Daily.

An advertorial posing as a story;

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2010/11/30/build-horton-park-course-designer-golf-members/

And some hard-hitting journalism.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2010/11/30/fairways-or-foul/

sms316
1st December 2010, 01:54 PM
Looks like some of the locusts will be coming to Pelican.

http://i56.tinypic.com/28v4rd2.jpg

sms316
1st December 2010, 02:01 PM
And a letter from the Directors to the HP members.

http://i55.tinypic.com/300wcb7.jpg

troyboy
1st December 2010, 06:05 PM
so they still want twin waters. Fantastic not

feel sorry for the current members of twin waters.

sms316
3rd December 2010, 08:15 PM
Notice to HPGC Members.


RELOCATION NEWS – 3 DECEMBER 2010
MEETING WITH COUNCIL
Members of the Board and Relocation Team met with Council Officers and advisors today. Whilst these meetings will be ongoing we can advise that the results of this meeting were:-
1. The resumption process is continuing and the Notice of Intention to Resume has been signed. (We will post it on the notice board when it is received).
2. Council is expected to resume sufficient land for one road and all proposed green space.
3. Council will give favourable consideration to leaving their offer on the table until after our proposed SGM on 20 February.
4. There is no room to move on the final relocation date 31 August 2011.
5. All other elements of their offer remain unchanged notwithstanding our efforts to negotiate improvements.
6. As much as we want a better offer the community feedback is that Council has gone far enough.
We will continue with dialogue.
PELICAN WATERS
Members may have seen items in the in the media and an advertisement today by Pelican Waters in which they are encouraging our members to join their club. In addition they have offered the HPGC Board the opportunity to bulk buy up to 500 memberships for our members.
The Board has not agreed to this proposal.
Members should be aware that HPGC cannot purchase memberships at other clubs for its members as this would be deemed as a distribution of part of our funds which is prohibited by our Rules and also at law.
The cost of membership at Pelican is $2200 per annum (including a $350 food and beverage levy). Given that our equivalent fee is $790.50 we are at a loss to understand how Pelican Waters management believe our membership would support underwriting the difference in cost for a select 500 members even if we were legally able to do so.
We have invited Pelican Waters management to provide us with a proposal to purchase their course and are awaiting their response.
In the meantime we can confirm that the current owners purchased the course for circa $15m.
Members are, of course, free to make their own decision with regard to joining Pelican Waters. However the Board continues to believe that Twin Waters is a better course, is in closer proximity to our membership base and that, post relocation, would provide memberships at a fee which will be competitive with all local clubs and significantly below that being offered by Pelican Waters.
Tony Nicholson
Director Relocation

Moe Norman
3rd December 2010, 09:24 PM
haha, twin waters a better course?

PeteyD
4th December 2010, 04:55 AM
I think they mean a better option. Surely not a better course!

sms316
4th December 2010, 06:04 AM
I hope they keep thinking that TW is better.

sms316
7th March 2011, 07:29 AM
Horton Park's relocation vote is on this Sunday.

http://www.hortonparkgolfclub.com/contents/71-home

It appears that they have cracked the shits with Pelican Waters management over some kind of confidentiality agreement. Hopefully that is the final nail in the coffin for the Pelican option and the club settles for Twin.

http://69.164.206.89/assets/0009/7723/Relocation_Update_24_February_2011.pdf

markTHEblake
7th March 2011, 07:51 AM
Seems to be no option now but accepting the councils offer but I hope the members vote to tell Twin Waters to stick the asking price up their arse.

I think the previous SGM did not seperate those two motions and thats possibly why it fell over the first time. I'd rather have no golf course for two years than pay more than double for TW. If they choose that option they may well see TW dramatically reduce their ransom over time.

sms316
7th March 2011, 08:43 AM
Seems to be no option now but accepting the councils offer but I hope the members vote to tell Twin Waters to stick the asking price up their arse.

I think the previous SGM did not seperate those two motions and thats possibly why it fell over the first time. I'd rather have no golf course for two years than pay more than double for TW. If they choose that option they may well see TW dramatically reduce their ransom over time.

They are getting over the odds for HP anyway on the basis of the asking price at TW.

The members only have themselves to blame for the predicament they are in. If they didn't vote purely on the basis of self interest (being able to stagger home drunk after golf) they would be sorted out by now.

markTHEblake
7th March 2011, 07:39 PM
They are getting over the odds for HP anyway on the basis of the asking price at TW.
How do you arrive at that consideration? The councils offer is on the basis of UCV, not as a going concern golf club.


The members only have themselves to blame for the predicament they are in.The members voted to relocate 6-8 years ago, had the GFC not occurred the Council would not be taking these steps, so the members cant be blamed for this.


If they didn't vote purely on the basis of self interest (being able to stagger home drunk after golf) they would be sorted out by now.They had already voted overwhelmingly once before to relocate the course elsewhere so obviously being able to stagger home drunk after golf is not the issue they were concerned with at the first SGM.

The first SGM was called because of the verbal or implied forced resumption from the council, so the predicament they are in now is exactly the same as before. The difference now is a fixed end date. It also remains questionable whether the council will be able to get the money.

djw13
9th March 2011, 04:23 PM
I hope they keep thinking that TW is better.

Agreed! I am happy with Pelican as it is. They have managed to fund the current renovations without selling out to HPGC and if money was so tight I am sure they would have scaled back to the works.

markTHEblake
9th March 2011, 07:00 PM
I'm tipping both motions will fail, and the club to tell the council to stick the resumption plans up their backsides, and build their own golf course somewhere else, and sell their existing land independantly.

The Mayor has actually said that if the club has a definite plan in place then he might consider holding back. A group independant of the club board has plans drawn up, but for whatever reason the board seems to be refusing to look at those options.

Moe Norman
9th March 2011, 09:15 PM
if they sell it independently, they won't get anywhere near as much as they will from a resumption

markTHEblake
13th March 2011, 04:43 PM
Awesome - thats the result I hoped for. Will be interesting to see now what the time frames are, as obviously the council cant move in until they pay the first installment of the money, which they do not have.

markTHEblake
13th March 2011, 05:09 PM
Just spoke to old mate who has been there almost 50 years, he is very happy with the result, and the NO vote to purchase Twin Waters was overwhelming. It looks like they will be focusing now on a plan (http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/03/05/caneland-course-may-suit-golfers/) done up by a bloke who did the project management Northlakes, new holes at Coolum to get 27 holes at a place called Godfreys land, just across the Maroochy river on the left side of the motorway. They are hoping the council will give an extension once they have a proposal in place.


11009

AndyP
13th March 2011, 06:39 PM
The comments at the bottom of the article are interesting.

sms316
14th April 2011, 07:25 AM
The vote is on again. Wednesday 20th April this time.

http://www.hortonparkgolfclub.com/layouts/mp_standard/Template.aspx?page=home

Are they just going to keep voting until it passes?

markTHEblake
14th April 2011, 11:42 AM
Exactly. They petitioned for another vote approx 2 weeks after the last one,seems that was canned as being unconstitutional,,so this one must be Ok.

sms316
20th April 2011, 11:18 AM
Days of our Lives continues at HPGC. The vote is/was due to go ahead tonight, but an injunction was sought this morning at 10am to stop it. Not sure at this stage which way it went.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/04/20/bitter-horton-park-row-heads-to-court/

In another interesting side note, for the last two days (that I have seen, but it may well be more) Clayton/Ogilvy have taken out a half page advertisement telling members to vote "no" as they can build something far better than Twin Waters. Have to say that it looked rather desperate to me.

markTHEblake
20th April 2011, 11:56 AM
which site is Clayton trying to put up?i dont think he did the rough plan I linked to a few posts ago.

goughy
20th April 2011, 12:11 PM
Of course with my smaller supply of marketing funds it would be 3 lines in the classifieds.

And it would be stuck in the 'Guys seeking Guys' section!! ;)

sms316
20th April 2011, 02:40 PM
which site is Clayton trying to put up?i dont think he did the rough plan I linked to a few posts ago.

Diddillibah.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/03/27/golf-ace-geoff-ogilvy-build-new-horton-park-course/

The ad does mention a website along the lines of www.diddillibahgolf.com (http://www.diddillibahgolf.com) or something to that effect.

AndyP
20th April 2011, 02:53 PM
SMS...do you think I should put my own ad in ?
Of course with my smaller supply of marketing funds it would be 3 lines in the classifieds.
It's the Sunshine Coast Daily, it should only cost you a couple of bucks.

sms316
20th April 2011, 02:55 PM
And it would be stuck in the 'Guys seeking Guys' section!! ;)

Seeking Dick? or Dick seeking?

markTHEblake
20th April 2011, 07:42 PM
Diddillibah.

ah that one. I have only heard about two sites the other is just the other side if the river. Seems that the kunda park land is long forgotten about.

Here is a website which has full details of the push for the site just across the bridge. This is an independantly produced plan, though it remains a surprise why the 'relocation manager' seems not interested in presenting this to the members as an option.

http://www.c-products.com.au/ecoponents/horton_park.html

sms316
21st April 2011, 07:49 AM
The no vote wins again, by 8 votes this time.

Hopefully every other club in the area takes the piss and puts up their nomination fees for the next few years.

AndyP
21st April 2011, 08:02 AM
The no vote wins again, by 8 votes this time.
Ooooh, so close. Surely that's close enough to call for another meeting and re-vote. :roll:

markTHEblake
21st April 2011, 06:19 PM
Now that is done and dusted what they should do is offer $10m each for Pelican Waters and *Twin Waters, they will have about 27M left, and build one new course and call them Horton 1, 2 and 3.

Easy.

* and tell that schmuck that is all he is gonna get, take it or leave it. There will not be anyone else offering more for that track.

markTHEblake
22nd April 2011, 11:40 AM
Last paragraph here says just that. I wouldnt even think they would need to flog it later. The maroochydore end of the sunshine coast is saturated with golf courses, Caloundra much less so so its a great spot.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/04/21/club-members-vote-no/

they have will have about $48M in the bank, they have about $9m now.

sms316
22nd April 2011, 06:08 PM
Now that is done and dusted what they should do is offer $10m each for Pelican Waters and *Twin Waters, they will have about 27M left, and build one new course and call them Horton 1, 2 and 3.

Easy.

* and tell that schmuck that is all he is gonna get, take it or leave it. There will not be anyone else offering more for that track.
Can't see them going for Pelican. There are too many splinter groups who will refuse to travel to a course 30 minutes away.

Well, I hope they don't anyway.

sms316
3rd May 2011, 02:59 PM
Poor old Horton Park can't take a trick after a break and enter on Monday morning.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/05/03/golf-club-thief-takes-life-members-gold-badges/

Interesting that they say that only the gold badges were flogged. My mail is (according to a source other than Grunt's mate) is that the thief also knocked off a bunch of keys to members' personal cart sheds, and a bottle of Bundy. I have also heard that the thief was wearing golf shoes at the time. :lol:

sms316
3rd May 2011, 03:04 PM
More relocation stuff here...

http://www.hortonparkgolfclub.com/layouts/mp_standard/Template.aspx?page=View+Article&article=223-362257321&ComeFromCat=128

sms316
6th June 2011, 02:15 PM
The Horton Park GC shitfight continues. Yet another special GM has been called.

http://www.hortonparkgolfclub.com/clubs/1392/uploads/Notice%20of%20Meeting%20June%2019th%202011.pdf

The request for the SGM is interesting. Relocation Director Tony Nicholson is firmly in their line of fire.

http://i51.tinypic.com/j7astd.jpg

Hux
6th June 2011, 05:00 PM
Can they just hurry up and get resumed so they have to make a decision of some sort.

markTHEblake
6th June 2011, 05:18 PM
It is a bit mysterious why they are obligated to Lend Lease for so much who did stuff all , relative to B&B who did all the groundwork. The overall amount is not a surprise given the length of time that it was under planning. Covering the membership payments would take up a large chunk of that.

It also highlights a flaw in the subjects initial negotiation of the contract, that the B&B/LL costs (or a penalty) were covered when they were the ones who backed out of the deal. Unless I suppose that is normal in that game.

markTHEblake
20th June 2011, 12:23 PM
The results of the SGM yesterday. This is an interesting outcome, given the most recent concessions made by the council which suggests that they may be shifting towards a less agressive stance.
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/06/20/horton-park-golf-club-members-council-coast/

markTHEblake
20th June 2011, 05:35 PM
HPGC has now commenced proceedings to object to the councils compulsory acquisition. Bring on The Castle
there is a highly detailed document here, very interesting reading.

http://www.hortonparkgolfclub.com/clubs/1392/uploads/Horton%20park%20Golf%20Club%20objection%20to%20com pulsory%20acquisition%2020%20June%202011%20with%20 Lend%20Lease%20attachment.pdf

sms316
21st June 2011, 07:22 AM
Funny how their legal advise all along suggested that they didn't have a snowflakes chance in hell. The members really are digging a big hole for the club, and will no doubt blame everyone except for themselves when they lose it all.

AndyP
21st June 2011, 07:34 AM
HPGC has now commenced proceedings to object to the councils compulsory acquisition. Bring on The Castle
there is a highly detailed document here, very interesting reading.

http://www.hortonparkgolfclub.com/clubs/1392/uploads/Horton%20park%20Golf%20Club%20objection%20to%20com pulsory%20acquisition%2020%20June%202011%20with%20 Lend%20Lease%20attachment.pdf
I didn't bother reading all of it, but it doesn't come across as a very professional document.

Sydney Hacker
21st June 2011, 07:35 AM
I didn't bother reading all of it, but it doesn't come across as a very professional document.

That was my thoughts too, the way that document reads the club has done itself no favours at all.

just
21st June 2011, 07:47 AM
Not only is it poorly written, it looks a little loony with the conspiracy stuff.
Are they open for membership? Are they taking on new members?

Daves
21st June 2011, 09:25 AM
I didn't get past skimming the first half page. Once I saw the fraud/conspiracy stuff I switched off. Not smart, and suggests that there is no legal adviser involved, or if there is god help them!

markTHEblake
21st June 2011, 11:18 AM
its not an official nor legal objection. its just a letter to council outlining the stance they will take.

the reasons why council wanted to urgently put a road through the middle of the golf course seemed suspicious, as there is no need for it. that letter points out why, and if true that does put the council on the back foot. ( which is to allow the sunshine plaza to redevelop and council makes them pay for that road)

just
21st June 2011, 12:21 PM
You can make all the excuses you like, it's loony, borderline libel (and may have stepped over the border) and uneccessary. None of this would put the council on the back foot just give them more ammunition.

Yossarian
21st June 2011, 12:25 PM
Wow! Someone thinks they are a lawyer or has taken a semester of admin law. Crazy stuff.

Yossarian
21st June 2011, 12:28 PM
My favourite point


155. But one thing is for sure.

AndyP
21st June 2011, 12:30 PM
It's a documented rant.

just
21st June 2011, 12:34 PM
My favourite point

That's just to give you a breather from the insane rambling before and after it. You get a chance to ponder the "one thing".

Yossarian
21st June 2011, 12:35 PM
I love it.

just
21st June 2011, 12:48 PM
The longer you look the more gems you find:
88. The socialist undertones are disturbing.

Marx is alive and well on the Sunshine Coast. Or at least Groucho Marx is, because he clearly wrote this comedy.

kpac
21st June 2011, 12:52 PM
You'd think any legal nous would ensure the letter, however amateur, would at least present as professional. Unfortunately the amount of letters that i've seen out of legal practices written as poorly or worse is alarming. QA is a valid skill of a company. This one may as well have been hand written and faxed.

On-topic. There's a host of meetings/negotiations and mootings occurring at the moment. If they don't sharpen up they'll surely fk themselves. Golf clubs are brilliant at business negotiations.

AndyP
21st June 2011, 12:55 PM
They didn't need 200 sentences, when one would have done the job.


195. The Councillors can stop this nonsense right now.
Back in your box, Council.

sms316
21st June 2011, 03:53 PM
Back in your box, Council.

Council rocks!

markTHEblake
22nd June 2011, 07:56 PM
Funny how their legal advise all along suggested that they didn't have a snowflakes chance in hell.

I recall that being said also, and obviously all the members knew this, and they were all advised that if sundays motion carried, the only option available was to object the councils intent to resume. It does seem strange the popular vote was to basically reject the councils $39M offer because $3M was to go to Lend Lease, so there must be more to that, than we know.

As you probably have more inside info than me, what do you think the members should have done.


You can make all the excuses you like, it's loony, borderline libel (and may have stepped over the border) and uneccessary. Whatever it is doesn't bother me, was interested in the looney libel. What I am interested in is the various facts that are made clear regarding the history of the deal. Obviously the opnions are clubs one sided view, and the councils would differ, but there are some basic issues that I thought would merit discussion. I doubt anybody wants to see a club fold like this.

1. Lend Lease pulled out of the devlopment because their view was that it was not profitable. Yet Council, who is not an experienced developer is embracing it. Be interested to hear Thommos view on that (Iheard an unconfirmed report that council has increased the height limits in the area after Lend lease pulled out. Lend Lease wanted higher limits)

2. A council acting as developer means they are approving their own proposals. Would be interested to hear what Briswesty has to say about that.

3. The council acted very abruptly, urgently and agressively with the need to put an unnecessary road through the middle of the golf course. Why? If you know the area it serves no purpose unless the site is already developed. Would be interesed to hear Dennis Denuto's learned opinion on that.

http://media.apnonline.com.au/img/media/images/2011/05/16/SCN_17-05-2011_EGN_04_maroochyproperty001NEW_t325.jpg
the open space in this pic is roughly the existing 1,9, 12-16.
The clubhouse is roughly where the red 6 is


On-topic. There's a host of meetings/negotiations and mootings occurring at the moment.

I imagine there is, and thanks for getting back to the topic. Mike Orloff from Golf Industry Central said recently somewhere that the interest in this situation is coming from all over the world, because the situation is unprecedented, that particularly in a struggling market there is a huge amount of money that will/was being spent be a golf course not funded by a development.

just
22nd June 2011, 08:24 PM
Why you pick my post out of a host of similar ones is getting boring, next time have a go at someone else. Anyway why not:

1. Lend Lease pulled out of the devlopment because their view was that it was not profitable. Yet Council, who is not an experienced developer is embracing it. Be interested to hear Thommos view on that (Iheard an unconfirmed report that council has increased the height limits in the area after Lend lease pulled out. Lend Lease wanted higher limits)
The clubs view of why Lend Lease pulled and may not be actually backed up by anything, other than the fact they pulled out. If council do intend to develop it I'm sure they will put it out to tender to the private sector and there is nothing to say they won't.


2. A council acting as developer means they are approving their own proposals. Would be interested to hear what Briswesty has to say about that.
Why would you listen to anything Westy would have to say, he's similar to the public servants who know nothing about development/town planning etc ( I could get the direct quotes but I just don't have the heart to read it again) who have led the council up the garden path by following a fraudulent strategy. BTW firmly toungue in cheek Westy.
To address the point, they would more than likely not develop it themselves and it would still need to go through state government approvals, I dare say.

There is very little in that document that is fact, most of it is hearsay and supposition, unsubstantiated and badly written hearsay and supposition. Ultimately though, if the HPGC is a valuable public asset then they have done themselves and the public a great diservice with that letter. It's such a shame that they would undermine themselves in that way.

sms316
4th August 2011, 06:31 PM
HPGC Pro Am is on Thur 18/8. Who wants to be part of a Sunshine Coast Council team?

markTHEblake
4th August 2011, 07:53 PM
I dont know how i missed this :-)


Why you pick my post out of a host of similar ones is getting boring,

I honestly do not remember as it was some time ago, It might be your writing style that is attractive if it seems to happen too often, or looking at the evidence in this example, I would suggest that it was because;
- you made a post directly after mine
- you addressed the post directly at me with "You can make all the excuses you like"
- nobody else who made similar comments addressed them to me.

So it would seem that you were specifically engaging in a conversation directly with me, so my reply to your post was not an unreasonable one.


next time have a go at someone else. However I did not have a go at you.


Why would you listen to anything Westy would have to sayBecause his experience in the local government industry is a lot more relevant to the issue than say a parking inspectors.


most of it is hearsay and supposition..Yes I know, hearsay is not necessarily false but that is irrelevant anyway as that letter does not have any legal standing, so it does not really matter what anyone thinks of its content. The main consideration is the NO on the first page . I got a clarification on the exact position the club is in a few weeks ago:

The council sent an intention to resume notice, that alone does not allow the council to walk in and change the locks so to speak. The club has therefore responded to with a flat NO and advise that they will oppose any resumption actions.

What happens next: If the council wants to proceed they will have to go to court. They will win because thats the law, and they will reimburse the golf club the independant valuation of the land taken, somewhere around $4M to $7M. Then the golf club will file a case for 'disruption' compensation which is a matter that could take 10 years.

The land that they want to resume is the entire 14th and 15th Holes for 'open space needs", (what the hell for?) and a road that goes through the guts of the course running north/south , thus disecting the 2nd, 5th, 6th, 8th, 12th, 13th and will make the course unplayable as it would require a complete re-routing of the course.

Yossarian
4th August 2011, 09:03 PM
Any new correspondence from the club blakey?

markTHEblake
4th August 2011, 09:10 PM
This is pretty much it from the July Newsletter (http://www.ozgolf.net/www.hortonparkgolfclub.com).


The past 12 months have been difficult for all involved with Horton Park, mem-
bers, staff, pro shop and the board alike in not knowing where our future lies.
Recently members voted not to approve payments to LL and B&B and as a result
the Board advised the SCRC that it would not sign the infrastructure agreement in
its current form. Following that decision, on the 20th June, the Club lodged a
formal objection to the SCRC notice of intention to resume parts of our land.
There is no specific time frame for the SCRC to respond to that objection.
Following the above the Board has taken a position of “business as usual” and
have instigated the following,
Prepared an operating budget for the next 12 months
Instructed KHA to progress to stage 2 of the selection process for an
alternative golf course site.
Stage 1 of the selection reduced the number of tenders from 13 to 7.
Stage 2 will include the site selection being reduced significantly and
negotiating options on the preferred sites.
Opened up applications to new members.
Although the information contained above does not provide us with any
certainty, there does appear to be a ray of hope in reaching an amicable
outcome with council which I am sure will provide a win/win for all concerned.
It is now important that we put the past behind us and unite as one to achieve
an outcome acceptable to all concerned.

just
4th August 2011, 09:10 PM
Because his experience in the local government industry is a lot more relevant to the issue than say a parking inspectors.
Possibly, and I was making the point that he is part of the public service machine that is so readily slagged off in that letter that you seem to put a great deal of stock in. However the basis of your original question to westy was wrong anyway, they would have to go through state govt development approvals, they wouldn't be approving their own development.


that letter does not have any legal standing
How so? It's on club letterhead signed by a club official. Either way it's still dumb. No wait, don't bother answering I won't be reading it, or do, whatever takes your fancy.


what the hell for?
Who cares, any club this dumb deserves to be bulldozed. Thankfully I won't be wasting my time on this thread or Horton Park Golf Park course and hopefully the first time I see it is when I drive through it on the new road to the new Caloundra CBD.

markTHEblake
4th August 2011, 09:42 PM
Possibly, and I was making the point that he is part of the public service machine
Which is why I was interested in hearing what he has to say.


in that letter that you seem to put a great deal of stock in
I never said that. I said it was interesting, that does not mean it is being revered.


How so? It's on club letterhead signed by a club official.

its not enforceable, it is simply an objection to the resumption, but i have already said that like three times now.


Either way it's still dumb
i never said it wasn't. I do not know why you keep repeating that.



No wait, don't bother answering I won't be reading it, or do, whatever takes your fancy.Why do you respond to my posts if you don't like me answering back?.


Who caresI care, a lot.

MegaWatty
4th August 2011, 09:44 PM
I'm changing the thread name.

markTHEblake
26th August 2011, 06:09 AM
Seems that the council is going to let the club stay until they build a new course.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/08/26/on-course-for-a-result-horton-park-golf-club/

sms316
26th August 2011, 04:44 PM
So now the club can screw the Council around for another 10 years?

AndyP
26th August 2011, 04:56 PM
Any new letters from the club that we can have a laugh at?

markTHEblake
26th August 2011, 05:27 PM
nah, apparently the first one has beaten the council into submission.

markTHEblake
30th August 2011, 06:02 AM
Council has agreed to give the club time to relocate and has upped the conpensation to $42m

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/08/30/42m-and-two-years-on-table-for-golfers/

BrisVegas
1st September 2011, 08:04 AM
$42 million !!!! WTF? How the **** is that piece of dirt worth $42m!!?!?!?

So, what are the old codgers gonna do with the cash? $10m for new course, $30m for new retirement vilage / clubhouse. $2m new EZGo carts for every member. :roll:

TheAwesom1
1st September 2011, 08:21 AM
I would be very happy if they build the new couse on the piece of land at Bli Bli

markTHEblake
1st September 2011, 09:29 AM
$42 million !!!! WTF? How the **** is that piece of dirt worth $42m!!?!?!? :
They sold off a handful of acres 10 years ago for $7m that amount to a par 3 and a another tee and green. If Using that for comparison they are being robbed!

AndyP
1st September 2011, 12:47 PM
They sold off a handful of acres 10 years ago for $7m that amount to a par 3 and a another tee and green. If Using that for comparison they are being robbed!
I wouldn't be using the land that was closest to the shopping precinct for comparison.

sms316
1st September 2011, 09:05 PM
Here is my mail on the course.
- Council offered $42 mil.
- 2 years to build after council approval
- a motion has been put forward by some members to revisit the TW deal..can you believe that.
Yep.

Never seen a club with so many factions ever. Not even close. This could go on for years while the club needs 67% to carry a motion.

PeteyD
1st September 2011, 09:21 PM
No wonder golf clubs are struggling.

markTHEblake
1st September 2011, 09:26 PM
So, what are the old codgers gonna do with the cash? $10m for new course, $30m for new retirement vilage / clubhouse. $2m new EZGo carts for every member. :roll:
Your figures need slight correcting.

$10M for the new land
$3M to payoff Lend Lease and Babcock & Brown
$20 to build a new course and clubhouse (obvously they cant build an old course and old clubhouse)
$? Legal fees, Development costs.

With some research we would probably find out that the council has agreed to pay $42M because it is the reasonable cost to cover the relocation, in other words compensation for the compulsory land acquisition. That was how they previously calculated the $39M for the previous deal to take over Twin Waters. The club stood to realise no profit out of that deal, so unlikely this one will be either.

(Sorry to seem like I am having another crack at your post, for not getting a bite first time. I cant multiquote from my phone easily)




Never a club with so many factions ever. Not even close. This could go on for years while the club needs 67% to carry a motion.

You have never seen a club with such a huge amount of money being thrown at it, combined with a very precarious and difficult situation, and there are over 1000 members so of course there will be factions.

kpac
1st September 2011, 10:46 PM
not a big fan on "change" are you mtb...

markTHEblake
1st September 2011, 11:11 PM
sorry, don't get you. I have never said I want the club to stay where they are.

kpac
2nd September 2011, 06:00 AM
certainly sounds like that the side of the fence you sit.

BrisVegas
2nd September 2011, 08:13 AM
What's the bet they end up getting a big name architect in and they build a "championship" layout that none of the members can handle....

kpac
2nd September 2011, 09:03 AM
It's a short price vegas. And who do you blame, the Architect or the committee that engages them? The big name architect can hardly drop all their signature complexities to benefit the clubs old vet members / average golfing punters, and when you've got 42mill in the kitty, the committee will vote for a clubhouse that operational costs are 50-fold what the current one are, simply because there will be inclusions they see as 'necessary'. G69 could knock them up a good members course, without all the hype and difficulty of a norman course, and i could knock them up a clubhouse which functions well and is cost effective. Are they going to engage either of us? from my discussions thus far, we're playing second fiddle to the 'big names'. In which case, it's no-ones fault but their own when the course, the financials, and the longevity of the club fail.

BrisVegas
2nd September 2011, 09:07 AM
Spot on kpac. Big architects prob wouldn't be interested in designing a middle of the road, "playable" members course either. Where's the sizzle in that?

I haven't played it, but have heard that Noosa Springs isn't a bad track for a members course.

AndyP
2nd September 2011, 09:12 AM
Spot on kpac. Big architects prob wouldn't be interested in designing a middle of the road, "playable" members course either. Where's the sizzle in that?
Do playable members courses still get designed? I guess you don't hear about them much, if they are.


I haven't played it, but have heard that Noosa Springs isn't a bad track for a members course.I've played it once, and thought it was resorty and very punishing for bad shots.

BrisVegas
2nd September 2011, 09:18 AM
I've played it once, and thought it was resorty and very punishing for bad shots.

I guess it's all relative. The guy I was talking to about it was a member at Brookwater and Noosa Springs. Older bloke. He liked playing Noosa Springs more because it was easier.

It'd be a tough balancing act to create a course that gets attention and is also appropriate for the membership.

What does "resorty" mean? In good condition?

What do you think of North Lakes? Is it "resorty" or "membery"? :lol:

AndyP
2nd September 2011, 09:46 AM
North Lakes is resorty to me. I can't pinpoint what is resorty in my head, but lots of fairway bunkers is one indicator, I suppose, and a few other things. I guess 'resorty' isn't the way to describe them. Maybe it is just a newer course that has these aspects and I associate a members course with something older and established, which you obviously won't get when you are starting from scratch.

BrisVegas
2nd September 2011, 09:58 AM
cart paths = resorty?

AndyP
2nd September 2011, 10:01 AM
cart paths = resorty?
In my head, yes. Big separated tee blocks too.

markTHEblake
2nd September 2011, 10:11 AM
certainly sounds like that the side of the fence you sit.

I wish people would quote me when generalisations like that are made :-) cos I got no idea where you get that idea from. Certainly there is no doubt I did not support the option they had to buy the Twin Waters course for the price being asked, but we have always known that they had to relocate for at least 10 years. Its never been a question of if, but when and where.

FWIW I also supported the relocation proposal put to the club in 1983 that missed by 1 vote, and even though I was at the vote, being a junior i couldnt :-)


What's the bet they end up getting a big name architect in and they build a "championship" layout that none of the members can handle....

Pretty sure Graham Marsh has got the gig. Thats being mentioned several times in the various articles linked to earlier in this thread. Marsh certainly designed Emerald Lakes to be a playable golf course, though I cant think of any others that he has done.

markTHEblake
2nd September 2011, 10:21 AM
And who do you blame, the Architect or the committee that engages them?.

Neither. they have hired external consultants to make all those arrangements and put the recommended proposal to vote by the members. That alone gives them a pretty good foundation to get it right.

I agree with you that in general, golf clubs are not always capable of managing such large projects on their own, and this example is unprecedented in terms of the situation and amount of money involved. It seems to me they are going about it the right way, by putting the difficult decisions to the consultants - such as choosing the site.

sms316
2nd September 2011, 11:53 AM
What's the bet they end up getting a big name architect in and they build a "championship" layout that none of the members can handle....


It's a short price vegas. And who do you blame, the Architect or the committee that engages them? The big name architect can hardly drop all their signature complexities to benefit the clubs old vet members / average golfing punters, and when you've got 42mill in the kitty, the committee will vote for a clubhouse that operational costs are 50-fold what the current one are, simply because there will be inclusions they see as 'necessary'. G69 could knock them up a good members course, without all the hype and difficulty of a norman course, and i could knock them up a clubhouse which functions well and is cost effective. Are they going to engage either of us? from my discussions thus far, we're playing second fiddle to the 'big names'. In which case, it's no-ones fault but their own when the course, the financials, and the longevity of the club fail.

G69 knows exactly what the committee want from a course architect. I'd post it on here, but I don't want to potentially give any of his competitors any information.

sms316
21st September 2011, 06:33 AM
Ok lets move.
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/09/21/horton-park-golfers-vote-move/

HORTON Park Golf Club is at the start of an exciting new era after 75% of members voted last night in favour of accepting Sunshine Coast Council's $42 million compensation offer for its CBD course.

Did they vote to take the cash? Or to take the cash and purchase the new site? Getting them to vote for purchasing a new venue is the real challenge.

markTHEblake
21st September 2011, 07:11 AM
Reading the article will answer that question.

Awesome outcome for the club.

just
21st September 2011, 07:16 AM
The club must be disappointed only getting half of the supposed value of the land:

Horton Park has had redevelopment rumours such as that for years and that article doesnt seem to include any new information. The land is supposedly valued at $70-80M which would provide more than enough to relocate and rebuild.

markTHEblake
21st September 2011, 07:16 AM
Serious? The club has said publicly they have retained Marsh.

peter_rs
21st September 2011, 08:12 AM
He said the decision would enable planning to begin immediately for construction of a new course on land east of Bli Bli, bordered by the David Low Way and Finland Road.

I wonder how much the land will cost.

Daves
21st September 2011, 08:18 AM
I wonder how much the land will cost.
Ummm..


Mr Davies said the club would now look to finalise arrangements with the new site, which will cost just over $10 million, .......

peter_rs
21st September 2011, 09:08 AM
I assumed that covered all the fee, environmental studies, rezoning etc. It sounded cheap for the area high lighted in the picture.

markTHEblake
21st September 2011, 11:46 AM
The club must be disappointed only getting half of the supposed value of the land: They were going to gross about that upfront for the JV with B&B project not including the profit share. Then of course the council imposed development restrictions on the site thus devaluing the project and thus the site.Then of course they have not been paid value for the land its a compensation for disruption caused by the partial land resumption. So based on what you know already as you have obviously been reading back through five years of discussion it is not really possible to determine that they have been paid less than what it is worth.Clearly five years ago it was worth $63M to B & B but there are no buyers now.

markTHEblake
21st September 2011, 11:50 AM
I assumed that covered all the fee, environmental studies, rezoning etc. It sounded cheap for the area high lighted in the picture.Its a sugar cane farm. And the council will not allow any farms to be developed. So all that land has little sale value since the sugar mill closed.They probably paid more than what it was worth as a farm. It did not really matter what they paid as the council was paying for it.

kpac
21st September 2011, 12:34 PM
Its a sugar cane farm. And the council will not allow any farms to be developed. So all that land has little sale value since the sugar mill closed.They probably paid more than what it was worth as a farm. It did not really matter what they paid as the council was paying for it.

Exactly. The only reason they get 10m is due to the fact it was free money. The club has been given plenty to move, now they need to spend it. That land would struggle to get 5M on the open market. (even that's too generous!)

markTHEblake
21st September 2011, 12:47 PM
Someone with a long term outlook and lots of cash would by buying some of that prime sugar can land, especially along the riverfront and leasing back to the farmers who might be struggling. Because sure as eggs with urban crawl that land is going to be needed for development, maybe not for 50 years but the time will come (as long as rising sea levels dont get it first- ha!)

And given the restrictions in that area it would be interesting if in the long term future HP were pemitted to do a residential development instead of the extra 9 holes.

kpac
21st September 2011, 01:29 PM
urban crawl
sprawl. although the concept of a city crawling to somewhere else is far more interesting.

sms316
25th October 2011, 04:26 PM
Noosa Springs is up for sale. Bowdo CC?

http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/leisure/another-queensland-golf-course-for-sale/2011102351992

Grunt
25th October 2011, 05:10 PM
Saw the ad for Noosa Springs in the Fin Review over the weekend

AndyP
25th October 2011, 08:35 PM
Clive Palmer again?