The OzGolf Club Condition Rating

[petethepilot]

Hi All,
I have been a member here for quite a while. I have come around to the opinion that the need exists
for a consistent scale for rating the condition of clubs that are sold/swapped etc on this site.
What I believe is an 8/10 is probably somewhat different to another members opinion of an 8/10.
I am not saying I am right, but if we can get together a standard, transactions should proceed with less angst
in the future. I also think that people should be encouraged to post photo's of the equipment where possible.

This is only a start and I post it here for the moderators to make the final decision on the standard
(and hopefully post it permanently here in the Pro Shop). I certainly don't want to be the judge and guru,
just get the idea under way. I am aware that the definitions I have posted here will be quite a deal more conservative than some peoples opinion but I have attempted to use the full breadth of a 1 to 10 rating rather than squash it up the top
(e.g. like wine ratings!).

Here goes,

10/10

New/unhit/perfect condition/ probably still in plastic or box

9/10

Used but Pristine/ less than 5 games old/ no marks anywhere/ grips new

8/10

Light Brush marks only on sole
No marks on Crown or Face
No bag chatter
Grips like new.
Shafts/ferrules like new (no marks/glue etc)

7/10

Minor face wear
Brush marks on sole
Minor bag chatter
No Dings/ Sky marks
Grips used but very good condition (definitely more than 1 season remaining in them)

6/10

Moderate Face wear from normal use
Brush marks/ Bag Chatter present
Minor marks on club though not visible at address
Grips in good shape (Clubs up to a year or so old)

5/10

Medium face wear consistent with range ball use or multi season play.
Possible crown marks
Extensive bag chatter
No serious dings
Grips useable but will need replacing in the near future.

4/10

Heavy Face wear
Grooves worn
Sky marks/Dings possibly present
Grips worn and may be less than optimum in wet conditions!
Many seasons use but still playable.

3/10

Grooves are there for looks
Grips need replacing
Major Dings present
Crown dinged/sky marked
Rust in spots/chrome flaking
Many seasons use or misuse!

2/10

You would give it to your kids or for hitting toads

1/10

Tomato stakes!

The rating can be slightly flexible as it is hard to cover all situations!
For example;
Some clubs will be 9/10 (virtually new) but have been dropped out of a cart on its second round and has a mark on the sole.
I believe one could advertise this club as a 9(6*) (the * being with a 6 Rating mark on sole - not visible).
ie. Most of the club is perfect but the drop mark seriously reduces it rating in some respects.
This means a buyer has a pretty fair guide to the club and would probably want a photo of said mark on sole.

Please contribute as this will only work if we all embrace it.

thanks,

Pete

[D22marshall]

Well said 10/10

[Peppas]

Still need pics but yes, a rough guide is always helpful!

[Lagerlover]

Like that PTP.

Well done.

[rick3003]

Yep good one PTP

[wizard_of_oz]

Good idea but no need to reinvent the wheel, I think we could just go off 3balls rating which has a description and example of photos on condition?

[Anfield]

Well done
I know I'll be referencing the "ptp rating" system on future sales

[timah!]

Or, quite simply, ads without photos will be removed. It's already been alluded to in the pro-shop rules, why not just enforce that and take away any subjectivity.
This isn't new, and a lot of people have been asking for a better standard or pro-shop guidelines for a long long time.
(Yes, I realise the perci factor etc...)

But requiring photos means:
1) The goods are actually in hand
2) The actual condition of the goods
3) Therefore achieving transparency.

Rating will always be subjective, I don't agree that bag chatter renders a club a '7', but photos will always tell the truest story regarding condition.

[3oneday]

Why?

[benno_r]

Leave everything as it is.

If you are too lazy to do your own due diligence, bad luck. If someone doesn't want to do photos, don't buy.

It's free market economy 101 here people.

[Yossarian]

Leave everything as it is.

If you are too lazy to do your own due diligence, bad luck. If someone doesn't want to do photos, don't buy.

It's free market economy 101 here people.
Amen.

[Ferrins]

So Vic Park want $395 for a 7/10 Scotty GoLo.

[Steve57]

Leave everything as it is.

If you are too lazy to do your own due diligence, bad luck. If someone doesn't want to do photos, don't buy.

It's free market economy 101 here people.
Agreed!

[petethepilot]

Leave everything as it is.

If you are too lazy to do your own due diligence, bad luck. If someone doesn't want to do photos, don't buy.

It's free market economy 101 here people.

So Benno, whats due diligence when most posters don't do photo's!
At least 2 out of my last 10 trades (no names) have sold me stuff that was way different in quality
to the 8.5/10 (or whatever) rating they had put on their gear!
Do I create a power of hurt and nasty PM's back and forth?
What 2 people expect isn't going to be the same, thats why you have a rating system.
Why not have a description to assist the transaction. It surely can't hurt unless you
talk your product up!

I for one hardly ever buy here now (except iron shafts and small stuff) unless I fully trust the seller (like Perci/Nudgee).

[Yossarian]

I would ask for photos and then as I am an established poster I would ask the seller, if they are new, to accept COD or unlucky for them.

I don't mind your system but not everyone will use it and I doubt the mods are going to go through and delete threads that don't have it.

[freddy a]

Leave everything as it is.

If you are too lazy to do your own due diligence, bad luck. If someone doesn't want to do photos, don't buy.

It's free market economy 101 here people.

I agree with benno here if you decide to buy without pics from a per son who you haven't bought before then stiff shit.
It's not hard asking the seller to email or even mms pics then you as the buyer can decide whether the condition is up to your OWN PERSONAL STANDARDS.
I will buy sight unseen from people I know and never had a bad deal simply because I have a good track record with them, and people have bought of me before without pics because I have built up a good relationship with them, these guys who do this with me will know who they are.
Simple rules if you haven't bought stuff of the seller and you don't ask for pics before you pay then it's your fault as you the buyer decided to take the risk.

[petethepilot]

I don't demand people use it, but it would be nice to refer to if the seller offers info in the listing
relevant to the items condition, rather than a generic "its in good nick, 9/10" on some random sellers opinion!

[Peppas]

So Benno, whats due diligence when most posters don't do photo's!
At least 2 out of my last 10 trades (no names) have sold me stuff that was way different in quality
to the 8.5/10 (or whatever) rating they had put on their gear!
Do I create a power of hurt and nasty PM's back and forth?
What 2 people expect isn't going to be the same, thats why you have a rating system.
Why not have a description to assist the transaction. It surely can't hurt unless you
talk your product up!

I for one hardly ever buy here now (except iron shafts and small stuff) unless I fully trust the seller (like Perci/Nudgee).

Can we have a name and shame thread? :)

[freddy a]

The rating system is also flawed as you are relying on the seller for his own personal opinion on the product, it might work for 3balls with their rating system as probably only half a doz guys rate the clubs and they can talk amongst themselves to get an opinion on a product that's borderline.
It's not going to work on this forum as there is plenty more sellers and they cant see each other at the warehouse and discuss in house face to face with product in hand on what the condition of the club is.

[mrbluu]

So Benno, whats due diligence when most posters don't do photo's!
At least 2 out of my last 10 trades (no names) have sold me stuff that was way different in quality
to the 8.5/10 (or whatever) rating they had put on their gear!
Do I create a power of hurt and nasty PM's back and forth?
What 2 people expect isn't going to be the same, thats why you have a rating system.
Why not have a description to assist the transaction. It surely can't hurt unless you
talk your product up!

I for one hardly ever buy here now (except iron shafts and small stuff) unless I fully trust the seller (like Perci/Nudgee).

I agree with Benno Pete.


For someone I don't know or I'm sure of the condition, I ask for photos, they can send via sms, email or messaging apps or post it in the thread. For ppl like you, perci or others I've dealt with I'm happy to go with their word.

[benno_r]

I don't demand people use it, but it would be nice to refer to if the seller offers info in the listing
relevant to the items condition, rather than a generic "its in good nick, 9/10" on some random sellers opinion!

We should be taking a lesson from buyee sellers. Anything not in Plastic is an instant 8/10. hahaha

But you are right in that regard, one man's good nick, is another man's steaming pile of donkey cr*p.

[Ferrins]

0/10 Air club - excelboy's driver

[Ferrins]

Remember when you were young Pete and your mate said her mate is a knockout 9/10! 😀

[freddy a]

Then you see her and think to yourself wow she is MING-in!

[Collis]

I will try to never give a rating and if I do i talk it down.
I always ask if I can send pics via mms or email.

I have trouble uploading pics via mobile.

[benno_r]

So Benno, whats due diligence when most posters don't do photo's!
At least 2 out of my last 10 trades (no names) have sold me stuff that was way different in quality
to the 8.5/10 (or whatever) rating they had put on their gear!
Do I create a power of hurt and nasty PM's back and forth?
What 2 people expect isn't going to be the same, thats why you have a rating system.
Why not have a description to assist the transaction. It surely can't hurt unless you
talk your product up!

I for one hardly ever buy here now (except iron shafts and small stuff) unless I fully trust the seller (like Perci/Nudgee).

Gday Pete,

Sounds like you got shafted (pardon the pun). I feel your pain, I made a deal without pics, and I was disappointed with the results as well.

In all honesty, the due diligence with no pics, is either walk away, or take a punt. If it's Perci or a few others, I'll take the punt - it's like backing a sure thing. Otherwise, buying without pics is always a roll of the dice at best.

Hope your issue has a good resolution.

Cheers,
Ben

[Lagerlover]

Next we can talk about packaging and lead time.


But that will rear its head over the next few weeks no doubt.

[rodders]

Perhaps in order to provide full disclosure, an accurate description should include clubs tendencies such as:

" known to three putt on regular basis " or " inexplicably sends drives high and right" .

If so, I have a few to sell.

[timah!]

Perhaps in order to provide full disclosure, an accurate description should include clubs tendencies such as:

" known to three putt on regular basis " or " inexplicably sends drives high and right" .

If so, I have a few to sell.

Shaft feels good when gripped tightly?

[keymaster]

Pretty good idea, but yes, very subjective to what individuals think.

Also for me. Face wear isn't always a direct correlation to the condition of the club. ie. Face could be 9/10, but because the owner plays on concrete, the rest of the club is 1/10.

[benno_r]

Pretty good idea, but yes, very subjective to what individuals think.

Also for me. Face wear isn't always a direct correlation to the condition of the club. ie. Face could be 9/10, but because the owner plays on concrete, the rest of the club is 1/10.

And of course the face wear to hosel wear ratio mightn't be consistent. For some.

[Daves]

Next we can talk about packaging and lead time.


But that will rear its head over the next few weeks no doubt.

Dog/bone.

[FuzzyJuzzy]

Plenty of good points in here Gents. Surely rule #1 is if someone flat out refuses to show you pics, there's something dodgy going on. I wouldn't try to sell (or buy) anything without first showing pics.

[Johnny Canuck]

Some of the sites I frequent in my nightly JDM searches (TourSpec comes to mind), insist on photos and it works quite well. Why not here?

[timah!]

Some of the sites I frequent in my nightly JDM searches (TourSpec comes to mind), insist on photos and it works quite well. Why not here?

TCC has a mandatory photo with username and date as a requirement for all sales. Again, works very well.

[D22marshall]

Name and shame

[petethepilot]

Guys are obsessive about fakes there plus TSG level condition requirements are way way above those on Ozgolf!
Here you are more likely to get poor condition than fake imho.

[Lagerlover]

Name and shame

+2

[Johnny Canuck]

+2

Agreed.

Give the guy a chance to make things right and if they don't, warn others.

For example: don't accept drinks from Rubin, especially when he has his Bill Cosby sweater on.

[davepuppies]

I wouldn't buy without pics, unless it were perci , PTP or nudgee as I have bought off all three without pics and very happy, and have heard constant feedback to reinforce this.

People I haven't bought from, I wouldn't without a pic.

[Yossarian]

Buying without a pic. Not even once.

[Blackhelmo]

I'm reasonably new to this site and have no concept of tips or JDM or the other technical,talk that is kicked about in the pro shop. I have advertised a couple of items in the classifieds, with no pics and found that any interested party have sent a PM,,asking for pics, that I'm happy to provide. So for my ads I have per used ebay, 3balls and rockbottom to try and source the same product in similar condition. I use the prices on these sites as an indicator to sell my goods. Is this what the majority on here do?? Or is it that you are all so familiar with golf products you know what is overpriced, a great deal, or a steal.

[LarryLong]

I think dodgy sellers will be dodgy, despite our best efforts. Good sellers don't need stuff like this.

I would advise all buyers to ask for pics, and failing that, ask specific questions about the clubs if you don't know the seller well. If I ever bought golf clubs site unseen I would just ask for a sentence about each of the following. A number scale is prone to differences of opinion, no matter how well it is constructed.

-Face
-Grooves
-Sole
-Finish
-Shaft
-Grips
-Karma
-Any exceptions (if it's a set)
-Hosel wear

[petethepilot]

The purpose of this was not to name and shame! I am perfectly capable of standing up
if I have been sufficiently wronged. In all my dealings, I don't feel I have been wronged.
If there was a problem, it was that I assumed my definition of mint/near new/whatever is different
To someone elses! This was a suggestion to define what is good/very good etc!

Please constructively comment!

Pete

[Boonie]

I'm with Pete here and like his ratings.

I'm also all for the mods requiring pics for every sale item. In 2015 if you can't do pics then don't sell, it's not hard.

If you want to be just a site then do what you want, but if you want to be a community then do it properly and set some guidelines.

I've bought on 2 or 3 overseas forums with good rules/guidelines, and never once been disappointed. My experience here has been a lot more hit and miss.

It's like a Masterchef chef challenge here. 8/10 is the minimum score

[wizard_of_oz]

There's loads of threads with no pictures in them, just check a few FS threads on the first page alone. Nature of the proshop is that many items get changed hands, sometimes people don't even hit the damn thing! I don't have a problem as all my dealings with the community so far has been good, all have conducted themselves with integrity so I'm fine to rely on their description of the condition unless it's something particular that I wish to assess from photos (eg drivers with no marks on the crown are important to me as it's distracting when I look down at it).

[Sydney Hacker]

I don't sell much on here at all, but have found the process to post pics to be a pain in the arse. Much prefer to just sms pics to whoever is interested, but you always have to be prepared to send pics.

[3oneday]

Clearly PTP has had a couple of issues of late, this is the 2nd thread in a month?

Anyone thought that the quality is relative to the constant lowballing? Why go to the effort of taking pics when you end up with a ridiculous price? Just my opinion, i'm not fussed either way, I don't buy off anyone who's been here less than a couple of years.

[Sydney Hacker]

Clearly PTP has had a couple of issues of late, this is the 2nd thread in a month?Anyone thought that the quality is relative to the constant lowballing? Why go to the effort of taking pics when you end up with a ridiculous price? Just my opinion, i'm not fussed either way, I don't buy off anyone who's been here less than a couple of years. Hang on, you buy off here as well as sell? ☺

[petethepilot]

If you use the condition rating, pics are required less.
If you tell me a club is 8/10 and I get it and it has marks on it...I will call you out!
You should have no excuse for stuffing up your description.
If you don't use it, 8/10 to you may be accurate to you as you could be part of the 10%
here that treat their gear like crap... And then on-sell it.

[petethepilot]

Whether this rating system will be posted up for reference will end up being a moderator decision.
Whether sellers/buyers choose to use it will be up to themselves!

My original question was were any alterations necessary to the ratings descriptions to allow accurate
Desriptions of a clubs condition.

[benno_r]

Whether this rating system will be posted up for reference will end up being a moderator decision.
Whether sellers/buyers choose to use it will be up to themselves!

My original question was were any alterations necessary to the ratings descriptions to allow accurate
Desriptions of a clubs condition.

No issue here if we have a standardised rating system.

As long as it isn't mandatory (along with pics). If people want to buy off people without a rating or pics, that's their risk.

[PeteyD]

I Iike the concept of a standardised rating system.

[Ferrins]

I rarely look at the pics as it uses up my data and when I do it shites me to go through 1/2 a dozen images on a multiple listing.

[mrbluu]

I rarely look at the pics as it uses up my data and when I do it shites me to go through 1/2 a dozen images on a multiple listing.
Don't you just buy everything from cashies???

[Ferrins]

I have bought over $5000 of proshop goods on here, actually more like $10000. Those who frown on Cash Converters are more than happy to grab a bargain that I pass on. Maybe the listings on here should have a chronological history added. If I had known 75 people had already owned the courty Lagosi then I would not have bought it.
I also started a thread listing AAA sellers on here and was abused for that but in this thread we have a growing list of favourites.

[3oneday]

I have the same list for buyers ;)

[Ferrins]

It doesn't really effect me now as my bag is set.

[Peppas]

Cool can we have more selling now?

[benno_r]

Cool can we have more selling now?

Sell you a Miz FliHi 4i. Head only. Not Xtreme.

[Peppas]

Sell you a Miz FliHi 4i. Head only. Not Xtreme.

Sorry, I got something called a 4i I use sometimes.

[mrbluu]

I have bought over $5000 of proshop goods on here, actually more like $10000. Those who frown on Cash Converters are more than happy to grab a bargain that I pass on. Maybe the listings on here should have a chronological history added. If I had known 75 people had already owned the courty Lagosi then I would not have bought it.
I also started a thread listing AAA sellers on here and was abused for that but in this thread we have a growing list of favourites.
I was kidding mate....

[Jazz18]

I know the mods/site probably don't want to get too bogged down in the detail with this kind of thing but what would be wrong with some sort of feedback rating for sales for each user like on fleabay. I'm no expert with these kinds of things but wouldn't that be the best way to know if you are going to get a good experience or not? Ratings of clubs are very subjective no matter the system and I don't think it would prove to be a fail safe. Photos or knowing the seller is the only way you can know what you are getting. If you don't ask for photos and it's not what you had hoped, ask for photos next time. Insisting on photos for listings will greatly reduce the number of sales in the pro shop I'd imagine and I don't see the sense in that when a lot of sales are made successfully without them in the thread. Every single one of my sales since I came on this forum have been without photos in the pro shop thread and I don't think any of my buyers would unhappy with the condition of the clubs I sold them. Some have asked for photos, some haven't. If people don't buy from me because I don't put up photos for now in the thread and don't want to ask, that's my loss, no body else's.

[PeteyD]

OK, after some discussion in mod land, we are considering the following:

To inlclude the rating system in the Pro Shop recommendations. It will be noted that it is not compulsory to use it (as it will not be necessary to put in photos), but if you put an ?/10 rating in, it needs to match the PTP Ratings as adopted.

The mods will not police this. Remember the pro shop is supposed to be there to help mates trade clubs. If someone gets it wrong it will be ok to point that out politely, but does not need to degenerate into major shit fights.

The first step is a general consensus on the ratings as provided by PTP. Perhaps some photos to help would be an idea.

[timah!]

Isn't the general consensus that it's not particularly required?

[PeteyD]

I think a guideline for ratings is a good idea, to try and get some standardisation.

[timah!]

So photos are too hard, but a ratings guide will work well?

Excellent
Good
Average
Fair
Poor

Realistic and defineable terms.

[markTHEblake]

The mods will not police this
Other forums do. JUST SAYIN' :-)
PTP would be quite happy to do the moderating.

The JDM junkie site requires a handwritten note with your username on it, in the photos.

[Hutchy]

Rating and pics work if they work for you, name and date is what I will do along with a couple of pics with out of 10 score

If something is not as described and the buyer is unhappy then a return policy should be in place, that solves everything.

if the seller posts pics and a standardised rating the buyer will be v clear on what he is receiving.

Buyer can also ask for pics by PM so they will have a record when the item is received.

[Ferrins]

I have just offered 3 Bob Rotella books. Do I need to disclose that I farted while reading them?

[mrbluu]

I have just offered 3 Bob Rotella books. Do I need to disclose that I farted while reading them?
Only if u followed through....

[Tongueboy]

As long as you did not shit yourself.

[Ned]

I have just offered 3 Bob Rotella books. Do I need to disclose that I farted while reading them?


Only if u followed through....


As long as you did not shit yourself.

Any pages now missing?

[Ferrins]

Any pages now missing?

I would never!

[petethepilot]

So apathy reigns!
Well, you deserve what you get then!
In future, i intend to require photo's before buying anything and will
call out any stuff which doesn't meet my standards….but wtf 'Whats Standard'?

PTP

[Jazz18]

I can't speak for everyone, but I think it's up to me to take my own precautions to make sure I am getting what I want/expect. Short of seeing the goods in front of you, photos are the only way to get a decent idea of what your buying and even that is not fool proof. It doesn't matter to me how anyone else rates their club for sale. It is just too subjective, no matter what the rating system is. There is always a risk of buying on the internet no matter how vigilant you are. That's just the way it is. If we want a no risk environment, we will have to buy everything in our local stores and I'm sure no one would be hoing for long if it came to that (well maybe Benno and Dean would ;))

[3oneday]

So apathy reigns!
Well, you deserve what you get then!
In future, i intend to require photo's before buying anything and will
call out any stuff which doesn't meet my standards….but wtf 'Whats Standard'?

PTP being ok to buy off Perci but insisting on pics from everyone else is confusing for me, why all the angst?

This place is really becoming all a bit hard of late.

[BenM]

I don't think apathy reigns at all, we all want to see people get what they are expecting, but at the end of the day everyone's expectations are different which is why the buyer needs to ask the seller whatever questions they need to before buying.

I'm quite happy to see a standardised rating system and ask people to use it.

I'm not sure about whether we want to force people to use it and force people to supply pics. We have good sellers here that do just fine without both. We have to strike a balance between making things too difficult for the good sellers vs making it too easy for the not so good.

[petethepilot]

You know it is pretty time consuming to look at that list and decide where you item for sale sits.
Hell, I lost 10 secs of my life both times I have done it lately!

I really don't care any more as I doubt I will buy much here other than shafts/grips etc.

[Ferrins]

I am enjoying the grips you sold me Pete and it was handy to see the picture of exactly what grip I was getting.

[Hutchy]

I think a return policy within 12 hours of receipt of item if it has not been used and it is not as described and the buyer doesn't want.

Is the only way.

[mrbluu]

The proshop is not broke so we don't need to fix it.....

[Yossarian]

I think a return policy within 12 hours of receipt of item if it has not been used and it is not as described and the buyer doesn't want.Is the only way. Right. And we send who around to various houses to enforce this? The cops?

[BenM]

You know it is pretty time consuming to look at that list and decide where you item for sale sits.
Hell, I lost 10 secs of my life both times I have done it lately!

I really don't care any more as I doubt I will buy much here other than shafts/grips etc.

I agree it doesn't take long. So why don't people do it now?

Answer: they're lazy.

Second question - if they rate something incorrectly by that list, how has it helped the buyer exactly? They still have something they're not happy with and will have to work it out with the seller.

Third question - if we enforce the use of that rating system would we have more people selling gear here, or less? And who wins/loses from that?

My personal opinion is that we need a seller feedback system - that would be a far better option than trying to enforce things on sellers, at least for now. Once that is established then it's very easy to say that people with no/low ratings need to meet more stringent requirements whether it be photos, condition ratings, or whatever.

The only problem is that installing that stuff into a paid for forum may require cost and upgrades so I don't know where we sit on that front.

[Steve57]

The proshop is not broke so we don't need to fix it.....
+1
It is far safer than EBay and as with all online purchases it is a case of buyer beware.
No rating system required in my opinion, if you want to buy something make all the enquiries of the seller that you need before deciding.
Case closed!

[Bitter]

+1
It is far safer than EBay and as with all online purchases it is a case of buyer beware.
No rating system required in my opinion, if you want to buy something make all the enquiries of the seller that you need before deciding.
Case closed!

+ 1 also, I would like to think if the buyer had an issue they would let me know or vice versa and I would happily do a return/refund.

[Jazz18]

I agree it doesn't take long. So why don't people do it now?

Answer: they're lazy.

Second question - if they rate something incorrectly by that list, how has it helped the buyer exactly? They still have something they're not happy with and will have to work it out with the seller.

Third question - if we enforce the use of that rating system would we have more people selling gear here, or less? And who wins/loses from that?

My personal opinion is that we need a seller feedback system - that would be a far better option than trying to enforce things on sellers, at least for now. Once that is established then it's very easy to say that people with no/low ratings need to meet more stringent requirements whether it be photos, condition ratings, or whatever.

The only problem is that installing that stuff into a paid for forum may require cost and upgrades so I don't know where we sit on that front.

+1000000! A feedback system would be the best way to build up a reputation in the pro shop that people are happy to buy off you. Then the individual can decide how to"advertise" their items and benefit (or not) from which ever method they choose. Wouldn't take long to figure out who the good sellers are and who are the ones to avoid. But as BenM says, cost may be an issue.

[coalesce]

If you need feedback and/or an official return policy, why wouldn't you just use eBay in the first place? If you are an active member of the OzGolf community you don't need something additional for feedback. Personally I'm firmly in the buyer beware camp. Ask all the questions you like of a seller, but I don't see the need to make things mandatory. I'm pretty sure OzGolf is meant to be more than just the pro shop...

[Jazz18]

If you need feedback and/or an official return policy, why wouldn't you just use eBay in the first place? If you are an active member of the OzGolf community you don't need something additional for feedback. Personally I'm firmly in the buyer beware camp. Ask all the questions you like of a seller, but I don't see the need to make things mandatory. I'm pretty sure OzGolf is meant to be more than just the pro shop...

I don't have any issues with how the pro shop works now but I just think a feedback system would be more effective than mandatory ratings or photos if there was to be any changes, thats all.