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Moe Norman
6th April 2006, 12:32 AM
It's a tad long but oh well.


Pacific Harbour



Much like Hope Island, Pacific Harbour is a course based loosely on British links in a tropical Queensland climate. This is not the only similarity, as TWP managed at Hope Island, Ross Watson has also created an excellent new layout on a less than desirable plot of land with plenty of interest around the greens. In fact, I’ll admit I ventured out to Pacific Harbour expecting little more than another average resort course much like it’s near neighbour at North Lakes, but was pleasantly surprised by the imagination shown by the designer in creating an interesting and testing layout for players of all skill levels.


The Front Nine

The first thing you notice standing on the first tee is the generous width of the fairways, a feature commonly underrated, particularly in modern golf design. Currently the course does suffer visually from surrounding property works but this not a fault or feature of the course but rather an observation that will be common in the short-term. The bunkers are generous in size, not depth, but do provide ample penalty for the stray shot. The bunkering is a unique style in this region with natural rough edges and shapes that appear random.

The First Tee
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6049/1stteebmedium2et.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1stteebmedium2et.jpg)

The 1st Green
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1739/1stgreenmedium8su.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1stgreenmedium8su.jpg)

The front nine starts abrubtly with a 501 metre Par 5 played into the prevailing wind. A good driving hole with a generous landing zone short or beyond the ample fairway bunkers. This hole will generally be a 3 shotter for most, but does provide opportunity and reward for the longer hitter with most of the greenside trouble being on the wings. The 1st green is the first indication of the significant contouring in the greens that makes for thoughtful approaches and test the golfers putting proficiency or lack thereof.

The Par 4 second is a relatively short hole at 325m but trouble awaits the less than accurate tee shot with a bunker to the right about 235m from the tee and water on the left for a lengthy stretch. However, more trouble lies ahead. If the first green is an indication of things to come with relation to contoured greens, the 2nd underlines the point. As the saying goes – “it appears a pair of elephants was buried underneath”.
This hole was perhaps an opportunity missed to create an exceptional short Par 4, something the course lacks. With an opportunity to reach the green in one, the driver would be the club of choice for a higher percentage of players from this tee than one would find in it’s current guise.

The 2nd Tee
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5158/2ndteemedium8eu.th.jpg (http://img96.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2ndteemedium8eu.jpg)

2nd Greenside
http://img421.imageshack.us/img421/7021/2ndgreensidemedium6nl.th.jpg (http://img421.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2ndgreensidemedium6nl.jpg)

The third is another straightaway 500m Par 5 played with a prevailing left to right crosswind. Whilst the fairway is surrounded by trouble it is of generous width and allows the player a variety of options from the tee. The 3 tiered green is perhaps raised as much as 10 feet off the ground with bunkers protecting the front middle and the left with water all the way up the right to catch the misdirected second shot or a poorly executed approach to a pin cut top right. This hole is let down by some quirky bunkering to the right of the layup zone where there are approximately 10 small bunkers dotted amongst some unnatural land fill. There is also some unfortunate piping to the right, however a member of the Watson team confirmed this was a late addition due to drainage issues

3rd Tee
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/498/3rdteemedium1ca.th.jpg (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3rdteemedium1ca.jpg)



The 4th is the first Par 3 of the day and measures a difficult 189m from the plates and requires a well struck long iron to a green protected by bunkers at the wings, but allows a generous bailout short and right for the less proficient golfer. The green is perhaps 3 clubs in depth and provides several options for exciting pin placements.

4th Tee
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/9819/4thteemedium2um.th.jpg (http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4thteemedium2um.jpg)

The 5th is an expansive 392m Par with a large bunker on the right about 260m out that tempts the good player to take the aggressive line over the top to leave themselves a short iron in from the best angle of approach. This is a relatively simple design strategy that Watson has integrated with successful textbook precision on this hole.

5th Green
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3092/5thgreenmedium0ut.th.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=5thgreenmedium0ut.jpg)

The 6th is an exceptional 380m Par 4 with a relatively simple tee shot to deceptively narrow fairway unprotected by bunkers. This fairway is heavily contoured and set up for a mid to short iron approach to a green not completely dissimilar to that found at the second. The real interest surrounds green, with several mounds and hollows that create an interesting approach and significant trouble for those that fail to execute the difficult approach. Unfortunately, the hole did not remain free from bunkers and four more similar to those on the 3rd hole can be found floating on a mound to the right of the green. Without these this hole may have been my favourite on the course, but nonetheless it remains one of the better holes on the course, if not the region.

The 6th Tee – the floating bunkers serve one purpose, a sighter from the tee.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/7254/6thteemedium6xn.th.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=6thteemedium6xn.jpg)

6th Fairway – great width
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/6715/6thfairwaymedium8ip.th.jpg (http://img50.imageshack.us/my.php?image=6thfairwaymedium8ip.jpg)

The interest around the 6th
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/763/6thaproachmedium7ux.th.jpg (http://img93.imageshack.us/my.php?image=6thaproachmedium7ux.jpg)


The 7th is perhaps touted as one of the ‘signature holes’ on the course and doesn’t let you down if you are expecting a fine test of shotmaking ability. It is a 140 Par 3 with water from the tee and splitting the green and protecting the right side and rear right of the green. There is a generous layup zone to the left leaving the less adventurous player with a comparatively simple chance for an up and down par. The green slopes from the right to left with three distinct tiers providing the player with a variety of options from the tee. The more interesting facet of this hole is the top right tier of the walled green that is protected by water, short, right and long. This has inevitably drawn comparisons with Pete Dye’s iconic 17th at Sawgrass, but thankfully for those with as much as a 6 iron in their hand, this version provides an opportunity to miss left!

The 7th Tee
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/3550/7thteemedium5hm.th.jpg (http://img93.imageshack.us/my.php?image=7thteemedium5hm.jpg)

7th Green
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/7493/7thgreenmedium1hi.th.jpg (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=7thgreenmedium1hi.jpg)


The 354m Par 4 8th plays deceptively short of it’s yardage and is a joy to play. Water up the right entices the player to take an aggressive line while bunkers on the left at the 210m and beyond zone ensure that those bailing left will approach the green with a mid iron or more. This hole does not take driver out of the good players hand but certainly poses the question to all levels of golfer “What should I hit here?” This was underlined by my group of 3 on the day with driver in the hands of a 2 marker, 3 wood in the hands of the 7 marker and 4 iron in the hands of the 12 marker. Interestingly each player made a very different 4.

8th Tee
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/7929/8thteemedium8mr.th.jpg (http://img112.imageshack.us/my.php?image=8thteemedium8mr.jpg)

8th Green
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/290/8thgreenmedium5hk.th.jpg (http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=8thgreenmedium5hk.jpg)

The 381m Par 4 9th is a good finish to an exceptional opening stanza. A moderate dog leg right with bunkers protecting the aggressive line over the corner, however, significant reward awaits those who successfully negotiate the carry with a short iron in to a horse shoe shaped green well protected by Watson’s abundant bunkering.

The 9th from 200m off the tee
http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/3465/9thfairwaytrapmedium5gd.th.jpg (http://img330.imageshack.us/my.php?image=9thfairwaytrapmedium5gd.jpg)

Moe Norman
6th April 2006, 12:41 AM
The Back 9

The 10th is a 368m Par 4 played into a prevailing wind. So while the 8th, 9th and 10th are of similar length, and glancing at the scorecard it may appear the could perhaps prove to be a bit tedious they are all unique holes played in differing winds and thus hardly comparable despite the similarities in the written word. The fairway is deceptively wide but is protected by more substantial fairway bunkering on each side. Depending on the conditions of the day the average player can be left with anything from a 4 to an 8 iron approach to one of the two smallest greens on the course with bunkers guarding the short right and mid left of the green. This green whilst small in size presents a variety of options for pin placements and a glimpse of imagination for those seeking an up and down save.

The Approach to 10
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8634/10thapproachmedium7zi.th.jpg (http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10thapproachmedium7zi.jpg)

10th Green
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1874/10thgreenmedium0mw.th.jpg (http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10thgreenmedium0mw.jpg)

The 11th is the longest of the 3 shot holes at 536 metres with the prevailing wind coming in from the left. The tee shot is visually intimidating as the player is asked to hit over water and wasteland to a large domed plateau of land with trouble on each side. There are some unfortunately designed bunkers on the right where perhaps someone got a little too artistic and the natural feel of the bunkering throughout the course gets a bit loss, but these still serve a significant strategic purpose from the tee. Only the longest hitters dare challenge the heavily guarded and raised green in two, with most mere mortals laying up short of a series of fairway traps 70 metres from a quirky green shared with the 14th. This feature is perhaps debateable in this instance but nevertheless will certainly raise discussion amongst architecture affictionado’s and the once a year golfer alike. Despite the quirky strip of green linking to 14 this is an interesting green complex that much like the 6th has again suffered from some unnecessary ‘island’ bunkering to the right. Had this bunker been part of the green, perhaps there may have been some merit to the double green, not dissimilar to that found on the Old Course at the National.

11th Tee
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7229/11thteemedium8qu.th.jpg (http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11thteemedium8qu.jpg)

Approach on 11
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2549/11thapproachmedium2qf.th.jpg (http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11thapproachmedium2qf.jpg)

The Double Green
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4143/11thsillyquirkmedium1qn.th.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11thsillyquirkmedium1qn.jpg)


The 333m Par 4 12th is perhaps the best hole or at least the best Par 4 on the golf course and is the beginning of an exceptional stretch of holes. Played with the prevailing wind, its not quite your classic short 4 where the player is tempted for a shot at the green, but is still an inspiring hole to play. The tee shot can be played with as little as a 5 iron or as much as a driver. A mid iron off the tee will keep you free from trouble but perhaps keep the same club in your hand for an approach to the smallest green on the property, whilst an accurate driver leaves a short approach that can perhaps become more difficult the closer you creep. This hole plays similarly to the world class Tom Doak designed Par 4 second on the Gunnamatta Course at St. Andrews Beach. Whilst not nearly as visually stimulating or even in the same class as the aforementioned hole, one must remember than the second on the Gunnamatta was created by one of the great modern designers on spectacular land in the cups country of the Mornington Peninsular whilst the 12th at Pacific Harbour has risen from a terribly uninspiring flat plot of dirt in suburban Queensland. The very fact that this hole reminds a golfer of such a hole is an achievement worth mentioning.

From right of the tee on 12
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1204/12thteemedium0kb.th.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12thteemedium0kb.jpg)

The 140m Par 3 13th is a wonderful little hole and provides a wonderful test of shotmaking for the better player and a stern challenge laced with excitement for all levels of golfers. Similar in length to the 7th this hole also shares other characteristics. The reverse of 7, where anything missed right is dead, the 13th provides a mirror image where a miss left, whilst not wet is perhaps a worse fate. The green is perhaps 30m wide and only 10m deep with a bunkers dead centre short, over the back and guarding the right of the green. This central bunkering provides a unique decision for the player not attacking the pin as the common shot would be to play for the centre of the green. This design places a premium on a players control of the trajectory and distance of the shot, more so than most.

13th Tee
http://img308.imageshack.us/img308/7296/13thteemedium2op.th.jpg (http://img308.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13thteemedium2op.jpg)

The 493m Par 5 14th is the shortest of the four 3 shot holes and as consequence also perhaps the best chance of reaching the green in 2. A wide fairway with limited trouble allows the golfer to load up on the tee shot with heroic thoughts of the above. However, the green is well guarded by a small creek splitting the fairway 30m short of the green. Missing the green right is dead with bunkers also protecting the mid left side of the green, however if approaching for 3 with a short iron, these are in play for the poorest of shots only.

50m Short of 14
http://img308.imageshack.us/img308/6105/14thapproachmedium5er.th.jpg (http://img308.imageshack.us/my.php?image=14thapproachmedium5er.jpg)

The 397m Par 4 15th is according to the Stroke Index, the most difficult hole on the property. There is a solitary bunker on the right encouraging an aggressive tee shot, however upon closer inspection flying this trap results in being in or very close to wasteland and a water hazard. Unfortunately, I didn’t have the benefit of prior warning. There has been substantial planting of trees lining the right of this fairway which adjoins the 11th and time will tell if this was wise, my prediction is a negative one. This green resembles one from the TWP stable of two tiered greens, higher at the rear with a large ridge splitting the surface in two, but fortunately upon close inspection the ridge was not as uniform as those that come from my namesake and as the feature is not overused by Watson it is an exciting and difficult feature of the hole.

The 15th Green
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7985/15thgreensidemedium4xz.th.jpg (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=15thgreensidemedium4xz.jpg)

The 349m Par 4 16th is one of the less exciting holes on the course, and provides an decent stroll from the 15th to the controversial 17th. It is a slight dogleg right wit considerable bunkering down the right side, that alas serves no strategic purpose as an aggressive tee shot provides no reward and anyone guilty of taking a similar line down 15 won’t be fooled again. The 16th also suffers from a greenside bunker reminiscent of the Tony Cashmore creations at Kingswood that to put it lightly could be done without.

The 16th Tee
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1111/16thteemedium0hn.th.jpg (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=16thteemedium0hn.jpg)

Moe Norman
6th April 2006, 12:44 AM
The Par 3 17th, measuring a brutal 208m to an elevated green can be viewed in many ways, but it is my opinion that the hole has many unnecessary features. Much like the controversial 17th at Hope Island there is no question this hole’s diffculty and while both provide an ample bailout option, the shot faced from the bailout zone in both cases is still a stern test. Another characteristic this hole shares with 17 at Hope Island is that it is significantly over bunkered. This may add to the aesthetics of the hole, but such aesthetics should not be detrimental to the golf to be played. There are approximately 8 bunkers closer to the tee box than the green and for a Par 3 this is not something I consider ideal. Having said all that, it is a momentous test of ones shotmaking ability with long iron in hand and the feeling of knocking it close will most certainly overcome any perceived negative design aspects. As the penultimate hole it also makes a considerable component of a terrific set of finishing holes.

The 17th
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1140/17thteemedium1bs.th.jpg (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17thteemedium1bs.jpg)

The 408m Par 4 18th is a superb closer to a fantastic golf course. Much like the 18th at nearby North Lakes it is of considerable length with trouble either side of the fairway. Fortunately, unlike 18 at North Lakes it is not the only hole of note on the property. Visually the tee shot is dominated by water down the right from tee to green, with waste bunkers saving the errant tee shot from the water in the 210-230m zone. With OB left, this hole demands a long and accurate ball from the tee. The green is at ground level and shares similar features to the 7th with water surrounding all but the left when the pin is cut to the right side of the green. Whilst not as heavily contoured as other greens on the course, this one has many subtle movements to infuriate the tired golfer and leave them planning a return trip if simply just to conquer the final two holes.

The 18th Tee
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/234/18thteemedium1pj.th.jpg (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=18thteemedium1pj.jpg)

18th Green from the17th Tee
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/5061/18thgreenmedium8kl.th.jpg (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=18thgreenmedium8kl.jpg)

The Course

A majority of greens at Pacific Harbour are elevated and thus create substantial interest with their internal movements as well as difficulties finding the pin when attempting a recovery, demanding a range of shots from the golfer rather than the mindless bump and run or the standard flop employed by many.

I played the course is relatively calm conditions with a slight prevailing breeze, and several holes may change in character depending on the conditions. However, I found the course to be an exceptional layout in calm conditions and suggest that a strong wind would only enhance by enjoyment.

The plot of land this course lies on is not much better than what Norman and Harrison found at Point Cook when they designed the underrated Sanctuary Lakes. Land described by Mike Clayton “about as unsuitable for golf as one could ever imagine. It was horrifically flat, the soil was terrible and the site about as miserable and windblown as a golfer could ever imagine.” Watson and his team have done a fine job in creating what would appear to the untrained eye as naturally contoured fairways and interesting green complexes and one can only imagine the amount of earth moved to successfully create such a course. One must only look at the surrounding land to realise what an endeavour it was. Only minor negatives can be found in the lack a driveable short 4, some of the bunkering, or simply the over bunkering in parts and the collective group of holes all of very similar length.

This course isn’t as picturesque as other local SEQ top end courses like Brookwater and The Grand and perhaps will suffer in comparison. However, purely from a design point of view the course is equal of anything in the area. Watson who has perhaps been criticised in the past for his work, particularly at Royal Sydney should be commended for his efforts here on a site that perhaps wasn’t ideal for golf but has been moulded admirably into a fine golf course and coupled with nearby Bribie Island, perhaps the best 36 hole destination in the area.





Oh and anything negative I think must have been 69'ers work and yes Jarro, Nudgee is a better course mate.

Jarro
6th April 2006, 03:45 AM
great review Moe 8)

i think you summed it up pretty well there. I was wrapped to be able to play this place while it was still relatively brand new, it'll be interesting to watch how it changes as the foliage grows. No doubt a lot of the plantings will, in time, make the layout an even tougher one :roll:

Nice work golfer69, that's a course for your mob to be really proud of :smt023

Moe Norman
6th April 2006, 04:14 PM
I was careful not to hamper on the negatives and chose not to include pictures of any of the small negaties I mentioned!

In fact I believe, there are less than 10 negative comments in the hole review. Thats doing pretty well. I can find 10 negatives on courses more highly regarded than Pacific Harbour, Brooky would be one of them. Hell 8 and 10 I wouldn't bother even including in my hole by hole analysis!


However, purely from a design point of view the course is equal of anything in the area. Watson who has perhaps been criticised in the past for his work, particularly at Royal Sydney should be commended for his efforts here on a site that perhaps wasn’t ideal for golf but has been moulded admirably into a fine golf course I'd say the final summation is pretty positive!

Moe Norman
6th April 2006, 05:38 PM
Try doing that at somewhere like Colonial when every hole feels the same. Or North Lakes, or Lakelands or The Glades....

Flowergirl
9th April 2006, 05:35 PM
This course was featured on the Golf Show last week. This is where we are playing the Club Champs isn't it? ( or am I being really blonde?)

Jarro
9th April 2006, 05:38 PM
that's right Reenie, Brett Ogle was crapping on with his usual stuff whilst standing on some of the tees there.

Did you happen to see when he was on the par3 17th ?? you got a great view of the hole right there.

Flowergirl
9th April 2006, 06:48 PM
Yep...really tried to have a good look. Johnny boy is worried about all the bunkers already!!
Looks like a good course. :) Can't wait.

Golfgirl
3rd May 2006, 12:19 PM
I just had a call from some mates who went for a hit - apparently the course is fantastic, but the service in the pro shop was terrible.... I hope that it is only teething problems because apparently they bungled so badly that the group missed their afternoon tee off time at another course.

And 69 - they thought the 17th was magnificent.

BrisWesty
3rd May 2006, 03:03 PM
Oops, the husband of one of my work colleagues works there. Hopefully he had nothing to do with it.

Jarro
3rd May 2006, 03:05 PM
Any chance of this being moved to the review section ?

Moe Norman
3rd May 2006, 03:18 PM
i've got it ready to go, but goughy is just working on a fix because there is currently a word limit on the articles.

I've edited it a fair bit to look like a proper review and taken out some of the stuff I put in to stir people up over on ISG - like the Doak comparison etc.

I've got about 5 ready to submit once it's done.

AndyP
3rd May 2006, 03:21 PM
goughy is just working on a fix
I'm sure he has handballed it straight to the missus.

Jarro
3rd May 2006, 03:21 PM
hey ... nice work Moe 8)

i'm looking forward to reading them :)

Moe Norman
3rd May 2006, 03:24 PM
i might get out and take some pics and do one on the Nudgee North mate.

Jarro
3rd May 2006, 03:27 PM
please don't, you might make me cry :cry:

I know it's not the best course on the planet, but the greens are great and i like it ... that's all that matters to me :mrgreen:

AndyP
3rd May 2006, 03:28 PM
i've got it ready to go, but goughy is just working on a fix because there is currently a word limit on the articles.
Can you try it now? I've extended the limit, so hopefully it is enough.

Moe Norman
3rd May 2006, 03:29 PM
i wouldn't go to town on it, it doesn't market itself as the next Pine Valley so shouldn't be reviewed as if it does.

It's one of the best, if not the best, courses of it's type in the region.

Moe Norman
3rd May 2006, 03:30 PM
AndyP - when I get home mate.

Jarro
3rd May 2006, 03:48 PM
i wouldn't go to town on it, it doesn't market itself as the next Pine Valley so shouldn't be reviewed as if it does.

It's one of the best, if not the best, courses of it's type in the region.

well, seeing as though you put it that way .... i'd appreciate an unbiased review of my course.

Jono played there recently too so he might like to add a few comments as well ;)

AndyP
3rd May 2006, 03:53 PM
It's one of the best, if not the best, courses of it's type in the region.
By region, do you mean suburb?

Moe Norman
3rd May 2006, 04:03 PM
I mean as far as value for members, conditioning versus budget etc etc it's one of the better ones in Brisbane.

sure it's not architecturally pure - but it doesn't pretend to be!

AndyP
5th May 2006, 01:57 PM
In case you didn't already know, Moe has now placed this review in the portal review area as our first course review.
http://www.ozgolf.net/modules.php?name=Reviews&file=viewarticle&id=3

Thanks Moe.

Moe Norman
5th May 2006, 07:42 PM
few more to come when i get a chance

AndyP
15th August 2006, 11:10 AM
As per discussion in scores thread:



14/08/2006, Pacific Harbour (Gold), Social Round
... you get punished more at PH, and the short game needed there isn't the same as anywhere else.
What do you mean? Are the green surrounds different to what you're used to? Was it the grass? Bunkers? It's interesting that you highlighted the short game when I thought for sure you'd say it was the length or the wind.More the greens themselves.

If you're not on them, you have to figure out how you are going to get to the hole through all the contours. Do you chip, flop, bump/run? Then you have to be able to execute it.

If you are on the green, but nowhere near the hole, two putts are a very good effort.

Playing off the golds (and unfortunately the markers were in front of the gold plates) distance was never a huge problem, I can't imagine it being too different from the blacks, but I would have missed a few more greens, or missed them by more than what I already was.


How tough is that 17th hole??!!! I stepped onto that tee thinking "hard 3 iron" but soon went back to the bag and grabbed 3 wood. I think into the wind, it's a 5 iron layup shot, then an easy pitch. Don't know what index it was, but surely it'd be a par 4 for mere mortals anyway! We played it into the wind. I hit 3wood first, but probably went to hard at it and pull hooked it OOB left. Second crack was with the driver (gripped down) and put it to about 3m. Downhill curling putt that could only be tapped though (missed). Fun! Index is 5 BTW.
I thought the green was tough, considering how hard it is to get there in the first place.

BrisVegas
15th August 2006, 11:21 AM
yeah, 17 played into the wind the day we played it too. It was about 205 from the tips and played more like 225... I think if the wind was any harder, it'd be more prudent to lay up with a 5 iron and be assured of a decent lie on the fairway for the attempted Up&Down rather than blaze away with driver and possibly end up wet, OOB or plugged in a bunker. FWIW, I ended up about 20 feet behind the flag and 3 putted it!

I agree with you on it not being too different from the blacks. There were probably a few bunkers that come into or out of play, but I don't think the length was overwhelming. Like you said, it's the greens that present the biggest challenge. I played some greenside shots that I rarely get to use on "boring" courses.

Moe Norman
15th August 2006, 05:30 PM
17 is just a layup into the trap in front of the ladies tee isn't it?

BrisVegas
15th August 2006, 06:40 PM
17 is just a layup into the trap in front of the ladies tee isn't it?

it's all about leaving yourself with a comfortable distance for the next shot, isn't it?? That'd have been a 6 iron from there right?:smt002

kpac
6th June 2008, 08:29 AM
Rightio - played this beast yesterday....
G69 - how involved were you in this one? what are your thoughts on the current product?
I say current as it still looks like the surrounds could grow in a little more (still immature vegetation in places..)

In particular questions;
Do you think it's set up too hard? I can't think of a more penal course that i've played. Taking into consideration this was only my second attempt of coarse. The first round was a raise of the bat, as it tore me apart proper. This time i went into it well aware of what i needed to do to play to handicap. I played from the back markers and missed out on playing to handicap by 5 shots. The pins were in easy-moderate locations and the black markers weren't at there further-most points. I played what i thought was better than handicap golf. Similar to how i've played at brookwater off the back and kooralbyn off the back (and both of those i've been able to be nett under the card...)
Anyway - i dont have a problem with it being tough just wanted to know if that was the intention....

2.
How do they survive, we were the only group on the course yesterday. no others at all zippo!???
how does that work?

PS" Love the course

kpac
6th June 2008, 08:32 AM
also not just after dickies comments - anyone else willing to contribute to this course review. Moe certainly approves (low marker) , i also like it (mid marker.... generous ;) ) others??

poidda
6th June 2008, 08:34 AM
How do they survive, we were the only group on the course yesterday. no others at all zippo!???
how does that work?


Yeha and they just put their prices up $30 as well. Go figure.

kpac
6th June 2008, 08:38 AM
Yeha and they just put their prices up $30 as well. Go figure.

might have been my sweet talking but the bloke in the shop offered us the afternoon rate regardless that we teed off well before. At $54 it's the best value course i can think of. Must be troons cheapest aswell.

But yeah putting prices up wont help as there's no-one there anyway.... First time i played, maybe a group every third hole, yesterday, no one. (I'm not complaining it was great!!) just cant figure out how they make any money!

PeteyD
6th June 2008, 08:41 AM
Where there any annoying ****en flies?

kpac
6th June 2008, 08:44 AM
nope - breeze may have got rid of them...

PeteyD
6th June 2008, 08:55 AM
They were there in a howling gale. Maybe they needed more wind!

Moe Norman
6th June 2008, 09:39 AM
kpac, why did you play off the back markers?

Of course its going to be too hard from back there.

kpac
6th June 2008, 09:51 AM
kpac, why did you play off the back markers?

Of course its going to be too hard from back there.

Yeah, i was aware someone would raise this question.. I played from the gold marks the first time and after talking to the bloke in the shop he indicated the tees were generous and the pins were moderate so i opted to give it a crack. I was also playing with a pro and didn't want to split the tee offs.....

Note: I know it's hard from back there, i don't have a problem with that (i chose to play it from the back, and accept the distance) I still enjoyed the course very much - but no one in my group played to the course rating of the day (74) that's why i posed the question...
Your write up is very good Moe, i agree in most part. And if the intention of the design was to be tough it has succeeded. Did you find it tough? I though the trouble that was located in the fairway off the tee was overly penal, yet i KNEW this, and accepted i'd probably be in 1/2 dozen fairway bunkers i wouldn't at a normal course. I had 13 shots to play with, the pro had none and found it tough to recover from these hazards.

kpac
6th June 2008, 09:57 AM
kpac, why did you play off the back markers?

Of course its going to be too hard from back there.

EG: 18th - 400m odd. Played it as par 5, had a 3m putt for par. Happily walk away with a 5. Don't have a problem with playing the index's

Length was by no means the difficulty... In comparison with barnbougle - the option to play to safety was not as generous. A lot of the time i would have had to tee off on 380m par 4 with hybrid to avoid f'way traps, whereas barney seemed to provide an option for a safe route if you're prepared to back a straight drive. I found PH requires arrow drives if you want to take this option...

kpac
6th June 2008, 10:03 AM
I rate it 2nd on list of courses i've played.
1/Barnbougle
2/Pacific Harbour
3/Kooralbyn
4/Brookwater
5/Arundel Hills

kpac
6th June 2008, 10:33 AM
I do have a decent short game and its really interesting around the greens. I think with flat simple greens that place would blend in like Twin Waters or Hyatt Coolum.

I think its the best Sunshine coast track....but not in 40 knott wind.

Totally agree, it's a short gamers track. I often gave myself a 6 footish put for the par as i'd play irons to up and down positions, with the receptive greens i think this is a great option.

You raise the point of winds - yesterday pretty calm i guess, gusting. With wind, a lot of bunkers and water, it's a beast of a track...

One thing i don't rate is, although there is great reward for "Taking on the f'way traps" i think it's over done. Not every hole should encourage the drive to fly the bunkers - it'd be a pleasent change to push some bunkers at the 270 - 300 mark and catch out those that have been teeing off with driver all day.

Moe Norman
6th June 2008, 10:43 AM
I don't think its overly hard, unless the wind really blows - and all courses are hard in a 3 club wind.... then again, those built where this is the norm, should take it into account.

I've played 3 times, each time from the back. For 31 points at the Champs, which was running second that day, another net 74 and a net 76. Given my consistency, these socres are fine.

I like the green surrounds maintenance wise as it gives short game options, can bump and run, play flops, use a texas wedge etc etc.

I don't rate the course that highly, but its better than many make out, and by local standards is well above average.

kpac
6th June 2008, 11:03 AM
I don't think its overly hard,

OK, what did you predominately play from the tee? I found the tee shots the hardest of any course i'd play.

I agree on the green surrounds - i like the space that granted for the short game option, i like the bump and run option to read the green, and the risk to flop to the spot. Enjoyable challenge and a lot of thought required.



Off the blacks all bunkers are located at the 200-205 to the front and 245-250 to the front mark (two sets per hole.) With carry options of 215-220 front one and 260 ish second set. You're long enough to fly the front ones and even take on the second ones, did you? As you seemed to score well, i'm just interested in how you played (what i believe to be) the hardest part of the course?

BrisVegas
6th June 2008, 11:27 AM
I rate it 2nd on list of courses i've played.
1/Barnbougle
2/Pacific Harbour
3/Kooralbyn
4/Brookwater
5/Arundel Hills

nice that a clay based course made your top 5! I'm yet to play Arundel, but sounds like it's worth a look.

PeteyD
6th June 2008, 11:53 AM
I'd rate Kooralbyn, when it is in top condition (probably never be there again sadly) over PH, but not in the condition it is in. Kooralbyn is more fun. PH seemed a grind, but both times I have played there in wind. Must get to PH again one day.

Arundel has some contentious holes with housing nearby? Or is that a development that is coming?

Moe Norman
6th June 2008, 02:13 PM
Which is better...Pacific Harbour or Brookwater ?personally, I prefer Pac Harbour


OK, what did you predominately play from the tee? I found the tee shots the hardest of any course i'd play.

I agree on the green surrounds - i like the space that granted for the short game option, i like the bump and run option to read the green, and the risk to flop to the spot. Enjoyable challenge and a lot of thought required.



Off the blacks all bunkers are located at the 200-205 to the front and 245-250 to the front mark (two sets per hole.) With carry options of 215-220 front one and 260 ish second set. You're long enough to fly the front ones and even take on the second ones, did you? As you seemed to score well, i'm just interested in how you played (what i believe to be) the hardest part of the course?
I don't recall where bunkers are yardage wise.

But from memory I hit the following off each tee.

1. Driver
2. 5 iron
3. Driver
4. 4iron
5. Driver, but laying up is definately an option
6. Driver
7. 7/8 Iron
8. 19* Hybrid
9. Driver

10. Driver and/or 3 wood
11. Driver (pretty woeful teeshot this one though, they got it wrong on that hole big time)
12. Pick a club, any club - really like this hole. I hit driver first time and i think 5 iron last time I played
13. 7/8 iron
14. Driver
15. Driver if you can hit it deadly straight, otherwise you need to lay back with hybrid and leave yourself a 200m approach (index 1 so fair enough)
16. I hate this hole, have no recollection of what I hit in subsequent games, but I hit driver first time I played. A hole best forgotten
17. I duffed just past the ladies the first time, I think its been driver straight into the wind the other time and maybe a 4 iron the other time
18. Driver

BrisVegas
6th June 2008, 02:35 PM
personally, I prefer Pac Harbour

yeah, me too. Maybe that would change if I played it more often though. There are some overly punishing/silly aspects to it, but enough very good and fun holes to make it very enjoyable.

Moe Norman
6th June 2008, 04:19 PM
I prefer it to Brookwater because although 16 is VERY average, it doesn't reach the lows of the 8-10 stretch at Brooky.

I also think its better holes are better than those at Brookwater. I struggle to even nominate a favourite hole at Brooky, possibly 5, 6 or 11 - but nothing really excites me. I really like 8 and 12 at Pac Harbour, and genuinely look forward to playing both holes.

The final kicker is I prefer golf on foot, and this isn't really an option at Brookwater

chrisal
9th June 2008, 03:15 PM
Having recently joined Pacific Harbour and played it about 10 times I can say I'm just starting to get to grips with the course. I do find it extremely tough but it's gradually making me a better golfer. On the subject of fairness I think it rate ok, the fairways don't have too much roll to penalise good shots and there are few (if any) blind shots. On the other hand the greens can be a little unfair when they are playing fast although I suspect this has more to do with some "creative" pin placements that were never intended to be used and a couple of the run-off areas around the greens could have been more generous (12 & 10 spring to mind).

The one aspect that can be totally devastating to the score card is the bunkering, I've had some ridiculous lie's (plugged to only a few dimples showing) and some of the bunker shots you face a just downright impossible (to the right of 10th green, from the back of 7 and 10), I would say that there is perhaps too much sand in some for them and it's extremely fine so you need a sand wedge with sh*loads of loft, big bounce and a wide sole to make it work, I’ve actually found them to be more playable when the sand is wet. If it weren't for the lost ball I’d actually prefer being in a water hazard than some of those bunkers! – stay out of the bunkers and it makes the whole round a lot easier.

I think the key to scoring is excellent decision making - if you can pick the correct club and the correct shot type then you have a chance to stay out of trouble and make pars. There are one or two birdies out there for the big hitters taking a risk/reward chance especially in the first 7 holes and you need to bring your best wedge game to tidy up those missed GIR’s.

If you’re playing anything over about 14 h’cap don’t even consider the black tee’s the first time you play it, it just puts too much pressure on your game and you’ll end up a gibbering wreck and about 18 balls lighter...

I've only played Brookwater once and it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges as the two are in such different styles, both places have the wow factor for different reasons but I would say that Pacific Harbour edges it for me because of the links golf aspect - it's certainly in my personal top 2 and the best features for me are the condition of the course and the fact that it's hardly ever busy.
I'm no business person but I would say they have enough members & corporate to run the place but I agree that it is lovely and quiet most of the time and the club house facilities are an unbelievable bonus, having a sauna and spa followed by a swim and gym session after the game is great.

From the Australian courses I've played (I really need to get out more!):-

1. Pacific Harbour
2. Brookwater
3. The Vines - WA
4. Coolum
5. Keperra

gazgolf1
21st September 2008, 01:27 PM
Played Pac Harbour today for the first time,thanks to Nudgee,Perc and Graham today for a round played in great weather and good spirits.
I was very impressed with the layout and 69r's mob should be congratulated for constructing such an imaginative and challenging track.
The course today was in great nick with the greens reasonably quick and firm,strange to hear the noise the ball makes when it hits the green.It makes you think the greens are too hard but well struck chips and pitches will stop.
I agree with Golfer 69's previous comment that there are too many fairway bunkers on the course but if you drive the ball straight you are rewarded with some short iron scoring opportunities.
Loved the greenside bunkering and the green contours.
I look forward to my next visit.

Jarro
21st September 2008, 05:06 PM
Have they employed any good looking cart girls yet Gaz ?

gazgolf1
21st September 2008, 05:12 PM
Have they employed any good looking cart girls yet Gaz ?

Funny story there,the drink cart girl who was heading for us misjudged a mound she was driving over nearly getting it airborne with the result being bacon and egg rolls all over the deck,poor buggar.
She was ok but there were a couple of skanky types serving drinks in the bar post game.
Actually we commented on seeing some great cans and we were drinking out of glass. :)

Jarro
21st September 2008, 05:18 PM
If you don't mind me asking ... how much did they sting you to play there ?

I have a few mates who are keen to play there, we might head up there in the next few weeks if it's not overly priced.

gazgolf1
21st September 2008, 05:29 PM
If you don't mind me asking ... how much did they sting you to play there ?

I have a few mates who are keen to play there, we might head up there in the next few weeks if it's not overly priced.

twas a freebie.

BrisVegas
25th September 2008, 11:17 AM
2,15,17

gazgolf1
25th September 2008, 05:53 PM
Gaz and others
Hypothetically, if there were 3 putting greeens that needed to be softened, which ones would they be ?

none, I thought they were fine.

Moe Norman
25th September 2008, 05:55 PM
gaz and others
hypothetically, if there were 3 putting greeens that needed to be softened, which ones would they be ?
3, 11, 17

goughy
25th September 2008, 06:09 PM
6, 7 and 18

AndyP
25th September 2008, 06:32 PM
3, 11, 17All prime numbers. Oooo, creepy!!!

henno
25th September 2008, 06:52 PM
all prime numbers. Oooo, creepy!!!

^^ maths geek!

chrisal
26th September 2008, 11:52 PM
If you don't mind me asking ... how much did they sting you to play there ?

I have a few mates who are keen to play there, we might head up there in the next few weeks if it's not overly priced.

Play after 1pm and I think it's 59 bucks otherwise about 89-100 with cart

chrisal
27th September 2008, 12:05 AM
the 17th is a qtr acre...oodles of room.

We had some fun on that green in the club champs - one poor girl was on in 2 and apparently ended up taking a 22, Putted down the slope and you couldn't stop it, ended up in the bunker - lather, rinse, repeat for double figures on a par 3! I took a 7 putt on the 8th that same weekend as the pin placement was daft - putting up to the top tier you had about 6 foot to stop the putt otherwise it was bye bye off the green on the other side, it kept ending up back at my feet! eventually got down but makes you look stupid. Thnakfully the grass is now growing and they've slowed up a bit! I think they are moving the club champs to May next year for slightly easier conditions 'cos I don't think anyone broke 80 in four rounds...

sms316
1st May 2013, 07:47 AM
Nice track.

The 17th is long and hard. Just like Lubin's boyfriend.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh170/smsmith1976/null-5.jpg

Hux
1st May 2013, 07:56 AM
Isn't that the 8th. They swapped the two nines for order?

sms316
1st May 2013, 07:58 AM
Isn't that the 8th. They swapped the two nines for order? Kind of. It is the 17th in comp play and the 8th in social.

razaar
1st May 2013, 08:38 AM
It was the 8th in the Pennant final on Sunday. The markers were set at 205 metres. That and the next are two awesome finishing holes. They should be 17 and 18.

Hux
1st May 2013, 08:48 AM
I only saw markers showing it as the 8th and my gps auto plotted it as the 8th.
As Raz says they are two great finishing holes - I am not sure why they re numbered.

razaar
1st May 2013, 09:05 AM
I suspect it has something to do with mower noise and whinging neighbours in the estate. The old first has houses quite close to the green.

sms316
1st May 2013, 09:10 AM
I suspect it has something to do with mower noise and whinging neighbours in the estate. The old first has houses quite close to the green. That is exactly the reason.

PeteyD
1st May 2013, 01:43 PM
That is pretty sad to lose that finish. That'd mean 18 ends kinda near the clubhouse but not.

highballin
8th February 2016, 07:57 PM
Played this course today. Wow favourite course I have played in QLD so far.

Was $40 with cart because the greens had been lightly cored.

Really enjoyed the challenge on every hole. At this price might play again tomorrow and see if I can rectify some rookie errors on a few holes.

PeteyD
9th February 2016, 05:24 PM
40 is exceptional for that course.

benno_r
9th February 2016, 05:26 PM
Agreed, the only thing I don't like about it is the fact it is 2.5hrs from home.

Sydney Hacker
9th February 2016, 05:40 PM
Agreed, the only thing I don't like about it is the fact it is 2.5hrs from home. Your in Maryborough, anywhere is 2.5 hours from home!

Daves
9th February 2016, 06:16 PM
You're.

My pleasure.

Sydney Hacker
9th February 2016, 06:18 PM
You're.

My pleasure.

Meh [emoji1]

backintheswing
9th February 2016, 06:21 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160209/46a0c13a1d99e23065b0f72af4f767c2.jpg

Peps didn't enjoy it too much the day we played.

highballin
9th February 2016, 06:50 PM
Haha Peps does like the wide open spaces:)

Lagerlover
9th February 2016, 07:13 PM
You're.My pleasure. Slightly inappropriate

Hatchman
16th February 2016, 10:56 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160209/46a0c13a1d99e23065b0f72af4f767c2.jpg

Peps didn't enjoy it too much the day we played.

Makes a change from being stuck up in the tree.

Nomad
15th March 2016, 04:36 PM
Thanks for the review Moe, when in Bribie I usually go to the course and use the driving range over the lake, the restaurant is good value and the pro's there have done on-the-spot club mods for me. The only thing I haven't done is play the course mainly because I thought the green fees were too steep compared to Woorim.

Peppas
15th March 2016, 07:14 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160209/46a0c13a1d99e23065b0f72af4f767c2.jpg

Peps didn't enjoy it too much the day we played.

Damn I look fat in that pic! Can't believe you saved it for a year...