Tank's journey to playing par 5s better to break 80

[Tank33]

I feel like my game is there for me to break 80 on a consistent basis, however, I will always find a way to shoot in the 80s.

I keep the usual stats for my games and I think they reveal I need to play par 5s much better than I have.

My scoring averages for par 3 holes is 3.75, par 4 holes - 4.95 and par 5s - 5.98.

When my home course, Cumberland, has 5 par 5 holes, it makes it even worse.

I am starting this thread to record what I do and if you guys chime in here and there, it'd be nice.

I believe my scoring averages for par 5s should be sub 5.5. If you keep good stats and your average score is sub 80, could you post what your average scores for your par 5 holes?

I will briefly describe the par 5 holes at Cumberland and how I usually play them so you can have a rough idea what I am going through.

2nd 491m index 3

My avg. - 6.37 FH - 45.7% GIR - 21% Putts - 1.9 and I par this hole 23% of the time. I used to drive to the water on the right almost every time I teed up there so I backed down to 3w for a while. The 2nd shots are the usually the best part of my game playing this hole. If I don't find the trouble with my drive, it will be my 3rd shot that wrecks the score on this hole.

4th 510m index 13

My avg. - 6.07 FH - 53.1% GIR - 25.9% Putts - 2.0 and I par this hole 25% of the time.
The second easiest par 5, yet I struggled a lot on this hole even when I started 2 or 3 pars, I bogeyed this hole most of the time.

9th 467m index 17

My avg. - 5.58 FH - 42.0% GIR - 40.7% Putts - 1.7 and I par this hole 54% of the time. Nothing much to describe.. It used to be a guaranteed par all the time but I doubled it 4 times out of last 7 and I can't even remember what I did. lol.

12th 494m index 5

My avg. - 6.00 FH - 45.7% GIR - 22.2% Putts - 1.8 and I par this hole 33% of the time. This hole is now played as a par 4 because of the damaged net protecting the adjacent houses.

18th 494m index 11

My avg. - 5.86 FH - 44.4% GIR - 30.9% Putts - 1.8 and I par this hole 37% of the time. I have been scoring well on this hole recently. Par or better 16 times out of the last 20.

If you see something obvious, let me know. I hope this proves beneficial in the long run.

[coalesce]

There doesn't seem much difference between your par 4 and 5 stats, so I'm interested as to why you have picked out par 5s as the issue?

[PeteyD]

Your percentage on 3s is worse 0.75/3 = 0.25. 096/5 = 0.19. Not sure why you have picked on the par 5s. Are your putting numbers similar on other holes?

[yoyo]

Maybe your long approach clubs are not quite right for you and/or the layout of these holes.

Or perhaps you need to think about playing 3W off the tee for position and better 3rd shot. Guess it just depends whether you feel more comfortable standing over a W,9 or 8 for your 3rd onto the dancefloor.

[goughy]

The best I played par 5's, when I was playing again for a short while, was to take nothing longer than 5i for my second. It was painful to do, but it just worked for me.

[TS]

I don't want to sound harsh. But Par 5 are the easiest to get par on most golf courses. If you are averaging 5.98 for par 5s. You are not going to break 80 consistently.

[mrbluu]

The par 5's at can mberland are pretty easy, are u buying enough new clubs to help play them well???

[LarryLong]

I'm not trying to be a troll, but if you're averaging 1 over on both the 4s and 5s, that would have to make breaking 80 very difficult. Just from a purely statistical point of view, if you're going to be breaking 80 consistently you would want to get all of your averages down around the par + 0.5 mark - not just par 5s. Stating the obvious, I know.

I'm not great with stats benchmarks, but the fairway and GIR stats look a little on the low side too for somebody who is going to break 80. I'm assuming that unless you have an awesome short game that gets you up and down, you really need to address the GIR numbers on 3 of those holes at least.

So, the trick is to understand what shot for you is most reliable for getting the ball onto the green - for some it is a full shot from 80 to 100, others do better to get close and chip/bump and run. This may differ on some holes too if the approaches are different.

Then, plan your par 5s out, working backwards from the approach shot you want to play, and then work out what to hit off the tee to be perfectly safe most times (Need to hit more fairways or you're screwed already) and ensure you can play the 2nd shot to maximise your chance of getting to your optimal approach spot in two. On some holes it might be a driver and something short. On others it might be two four hybrids, or even a seven iron to avoid crap followed by a 3 wood to a wider area of fairway. Depends on the hole. Par fives generally aren't so long that you can't go short on at least one shot if you have to.

That to me seems like a completely logical Vulcan way of approaching par 5s if you really want to score better. I don't do it that way because I'm crap, but if I was any good and wanted to improve, that's what I'd do.

[Tank33]

There doesn't seem much difference between your par 4 and 5 stats, so I'm interested as to why you have picked out par 5s as the issue?

Well, I believe all good players would be playing par 5s much better than par 4s.
Wouldn't most of the lower markers think par 5s as a good birdie chance hole?
I'm sure their avg on par 5s would be lower than that of par 4s.

[Tank33]

Your percentage on 3s is worse 0.75/3 = 0.25. 096/5 = 0.19. Not sure why you have picked on the par 5s. Are your putting numbers similar on other holes?

You got it all wrong. 3.75 meaning per hole avg. 0.75 over par on par 3s and 0.96 over par on par 5s.
Your assumption on having 3 par 3 holes is also wrong. To make up 72, if I have 5 par 5s, I am bound to have 5 par 3s.

[Tank33]

I don't want to sound harsh. But Par 5 are the easiest to get par on most golf courses. If you are averaging 5.98 for par 5s. You are not going to break 80 consistently.

I realised that and that's the reason I started this thread, isn't it?

[Tank33]

The par 5's at can mberland are pretty easy, are u buying enough new clubs to help play them well???

Yet out of your 3 rounds playing off 5, 6 or 7 at Cumberland, you shoot 93, 83, and 80. Who do you think need more new clubs? :P

[jimandr]

Tank

For us to provide advice (and to be good golfing voyeurs) we need more information.

Firstly, we need to know how far you hit it. To break 80 you need to be thinking about hitting 9 in two, or at the very least getting close enough to chip, therefore assuring yourself of par, and possibly getting birdie there. 4 and 18 are also fairly straightforward par 5's, so you should be leaving yourself short shots into those holes.

So we need to know if you can reach those greens, and then we can advise you whether a strategic layup is advisable or not.

Then we need to know how often you hit the fairway when you try to lay up. Then we can advise whether you should be laying up to a distance, or not.

Most lowish handicaps make their scores on par 5's because they can reach in two or get close enough to get the occasional birdie. But that isn't the only way to play 5's. Certainly my method is to stay out of trouble on my 2nd, and trust my approach game to be good enough to get pars. I'm still hitting a shorter club (usually), than I would into most par 4's, so I still expect to score better on the 5's.

How we play par 5's is quite an interesting topic when you think a bit more deeply about it.

[Tank33]

I will give you some examples why I think I am losing on par 5s.





1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
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12
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OUT
IN
Total


4
5
3
5
3
4
4
4
5
4
3
5
3
4
4
3
4
5
37
35
72

























4
6
3
5
4
5
4
6
6
5
3
6
4
5
5
3
4
5
43
40
83


4
6
3
5
3
5
5
3
7
5
4
6
2
6
5
3
5
5
41
41
82


4
5
4
5
3
5
4
4
5
7
4
6
3
4
6
3
4
5
39
42
81


4
6
3
5
3
5
5
6
5
5
4
6
3
4
6
4
4
5
42
41
83


4
8
4
4
3
4
5
4
5
4
4
5
4
4
5
4
4
5
41
39
80


5
5
3
5
3
5
6
4
5
4
5
5
3
5
5
3
4
6
41
40
81


5
5
4
6
3
5
4
4
5
4
4
6
4
5
4
3
5
5
41
40
81

[mrbluu]

Yet out of your 3 rounds playing off 5, 6 or 7 at Cumberland, you shoot 93, 83, and 80. Who do you think need more new clubs? [emoji14]
So that got a new putter, 3 wood, 2 hybrids and a set of irons....happy ;)

[Tank33]

Tank

For us to provide advice (and to be good golfing voyeurs) we need more information.

Firstly, we need to know how far you hit it. To break 80 you need to be thinking about hitting 9 in two, or at the very least getting close enough to chip, therefore assuring yourself of par, and possibly getting birdie there. 4 and 18 are also fairly straightforward par 5's, so you should be leaving yourself short shots into those holes.

So we need to know if you can reach those greens, and then we can advise you whether a strategic layup is advisable or not.

Then we need to know how often you hit the fairway when you try to lay up. Then we can advise whether you should be laying up to a distance, or not.

Most lowish handicaps make their scores on par 5's because they can reach in two or get close enough to get the occasional birdie. But that isn't the only way to play 5's. Certainly my method is to stay out of trouble on my 2nd, and trust my approach game to be good enough to get pars. I'm still hitting a shorter club (usually), than I would into most par 4's, so I still expect to score better on the 5's.

How we play par 5's is quite an interesting topic when you think a bit more deeply about it.

I understand I won't be playing them much better tomorrow just because I posted this stuff up here today. That's why I titled it a journey and I expected it to be a long one.

However, having realised that I need to score much much better on those par 5s to shoot better scores and going public about it on this thread will be a good reference point for where I am and where I will be in after a certain period of time.

I will describe what I did on those holes from now on.. and then you will learn a lot about my game.

9th is definitely reachable. I'd be hitting anything from 3w to 4i depending on where my drive ended up. However, I usually lay up to about 100m out to avoid bunker and water with my 2nd shot.

I have reached 18th in 2 just a couple of times.

Having the distance to reach them in two is a huge bonus but I don't think I need to even try to reach them in two to score better.

The other day I hit two good shots (a good drive and a good 3w) to be out 40m out on the 2nd. Yet I chipped to about 6m to the pin and 3 putted for a bogey.

I think I will have to concentrate on finding more fairways on those holes even if I hit the drives shorter for a start.

[Tank33]

So that got a new putter, 3 wood, 2 hybrids and a set of irons....happy ;)

The shaft I got off you feels pretty good.. I think I am definitely finding more fairways with it. I will see if it help to bring up the FH % up a bit in the future.

I had to extend it from your length though. With the extension, it SWs D2. I also weighed my JS head and it was only weighing 192g with that weight port thing weighing pretty much 0g on the scale. I have ordered a heavier weight port and once I get the weight I plan to CB it to about D0 SW.

[PeteyD]

You got it all wrong. 3.75 meaning per hole avg. 0.75 over par on par 3s and 0.96 over par on par 5s.
Your assumption on having 3 par 3 holes is also wrong. To make up 72, if I have 5 par 5s, I am bound to have 5 par 3s.

You have totally misunderstood what I am trying to say, but that's ok. I think you need to practice putting more and get that down. 1.7 putts per hole average is not good enough to break 80 unless you are hitting a lot of greens.

Anyway concentrating on one part of your game could work for you. I always thought good players had lower averages on par 5's cos they are really long par 4s for them.

[Rodent]

I had a 7 over 77 at The Coast yesterday. GIR 33.3% with 27 putts (1.5 per hole). I was one under par for the par 5's (Birdie/Par/Par). If you are averaging hitting just 28.14% GIR on par 5's, your putts per hole should be quite low. Your average putts per par 5 is 1.84. That's ok if you're hitting 90% GIR but at 28.14%, that's way too many putts imho.
To do well consistently on Par 5's, I think you need to practice your favourite lay up distance, a wedge from 100m for example so that you can increase your GIR and get it closer to the hole. I work at getting to my layup spot with the least risk. I'm not afraid of taking short clubs off the tee. Improving chipping and putting will naturally help on all holes.
You can hit it like a dog and still score ok if you can chip and putt. Pretty obvious stuff.

[markTHEblake]

The scores you are having on Par 5's is no more relevant to breaking 80 than the rest of the course.
The answers to your problem is;
- stop over analysing. I have no doubt that now Par 5's are psyching you out so you are playing them worse
- practice chipping and putting
- get a short game lesson
- get a lesson
- practice more
- stop asking choppers for advice

[yoyo]

Have you considered using a different glove for the Par 5's ?

[Captain Nemo]

Too many stats herefor me to chime in. 😣

[Steve]

Hello, just from s hacker, from what you have listed against these holes, I think you need to fix your 100 ish in shot not your par 5s as such. But what would I know .

[3oneday]

I found the par 5's at Cumberland quite difficult, especially if my short game was ordinary on the day. Even 9.

You need to hit driver on 3 of them except 9 and 18, to give you the best chance if hitting in reg.

On your 2nd shots, I'd try to Stay left on 2, left on 4, left on 9, aim at the bunker on 12 and low side of 18. That's the only way to get a clear look and what I think is the best angle into the greens, also pointing you away from trouble.

Play them with a plan, see if it helps.

[Ferrins]

Get a 18 hole playing lesson with your PGA pro. Would cost less than a new driver and help you a lot more.

[Tank33]

I had a 7 over 77 at The Coast yesterday. GIR 33.3% with 27 putts (1.5 per hole). I was one under par for the par 5's (Birdie/Par/Par). If you are averaging hitting just 28.14% GIR on par 5's, your putts per hole should be quite low. Your average putts per par 5 is 1.84. That's ok if you're hitting 90% GIR but at 28.14%, that's way too many putts imho.
To do well consistently on Par 5's, I think you need to practice your favourite lay up distance, a wedge from 100m for example so that you can increase your GIR and get it closer to the hole. I work at getting to my layup spot with the least risk. I'm not afraid of taking short clubs off the tee. Improving chipping and putting will naturally help on all holes.
You can hit it like a dog and still score ok if you can chip and putt. Pretty obvious stuff.

Averages are averages. If you averages 90% GIR, you are doing way better than tour pros.
The stats provided by Golfshot and Golfplan indicate, a 9 marker averages 42% FH, 36% GIR, 18% UD, 28% SS and 1.87 Putts, and my averages are 53% FH, 31% GIR, 19% UD, 25% SS and 1.77 Putts.
So I am doing ok except for the GIR overall.

But on par 5 holes, I average 46.2% FH, 28.1% GIR and 1.84 Putts which indicate that I play those par 5s worse than other holes.
Thing you have to understand about averages is they would have a big range between min and max. My GIR stats range from 0 to 67%, for example.

I definitely need to work on hitting irons from about 100m in.

[Tank33]

The scores you are having on Par 5's is no more relevant to breaking 80 than the rest of the course.
The answers to your problem is;
- stop over analysing. I have no doubt that now Par 5's are psyching you out so you are playing them worse
- practice chipping and putting
- get a short game lesson
- get a lesson
- practice more
- stop asking choppers for advice

I cannot argue with any of the above. You are 10000% correct on each and every points.

[Tank33]

Too many stats herefor me to chime in. 

I agree. I never sort of analysed them this way before. I just had them by keeping my scorecards on the golfshot. I think I opened the can of worms. Maybe I will put the lid back on. lol.

[Tank33]

Hello, just from s hacker, from what you have listed against these holes, I think you need to fix your 100 ish in shot not your par 5s as such. But what would I know .

I couldn't agree more.

[Tank33]

I found the par 5's at Cumberland quite difficult, especially if my short game was ordinary on the day. Even 9.

You need to hit driver on 3 of them except 9 and 18, to give you the best chance if hitting in reg.

On your 2nd shots, I'd try to Stay left on 2, left on 4, left on 9, aim at the bunker on 12 and low side of 18. That's the only way to get a clear look and what I think is the best angle into the greens, also pointing you away from trouble.

Play them with a plan, see if it helps.

Thank you for the consolation. It's nice to have a good neighbour. lol.
I totally agree with the plans which is what I am trying to do all the time.
But just for some strange reasons, all the shots I hit them ok on other holes, I tend to stuff them up on par 5 holes more often, especially the 3rd shot (usually a shot iron shots).
All mental shit more than anything, I should free myself from thinking negative on those holes and be confident. I just need a few rounds with good scores on these holes to be on the positive side.

[Tank33]

Get a 18 hole playing lesson with your PGA pro. Would cost less than a new driver and help you a lot more.

Yeah I have been thinking about it for a long time.. I got enough coins saved up in my pro shop account for it too.