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SirTop
27th December 2014, 10:35 AM
What do you do to stop slicing fairways or hybrids off the deck?

I'm slicing them badly off the dirt and at times topping the bloody things.

talbo
27th December 2014, 10:43 AM
Treat them more like an iron in regards to ball position. If you have a hybrid that is adjustable maybe play with the lie angle adjustment?

SirTop
27th December 2014, 10:59 AM
Treat them more like an iron in regards to ball position. If you have a hybrid that is adjustable maybe play with the lie angle adjustment?
Thanks, it's a TM RBZ tour 18.5 3hy, currently set to between standard and higher loft

I try hitting down on it like a 7 iron, and generally they fade or slice away.

I don't slice my irons at all.

markTHEblake
27th December 2014, 11:29 AM
What do you do to stop slicing fairways or hybrids off the deck? I had that problem for well over 10 years. Easily stopped it by hitting irons instead.

Had I have got a lesson instead, would have saved me so much headache

Steve
27th December 2014, 11:33 AM
Sweep not 7iron its a long iron

razaar
27th December 2014, 12:52 PM
Toppy
What I did when learning to play in a previous life to stop slicing the driver and fairway woods was to learn to swing past my body. To do this the spine stays very centered throughout the swing and the head stays back with the left side of the face staying to the right of the ball position until well past impact. The focus is to hit the inside quadrant of the ball while not allowing your spine to tilt towards the target. If there is tilt it should be away from the target, caused by the hips staying ahead of the shoulders.

SirTop
27th December 2014, 05:26 PM
Sweep not 7iron its a long iron

Everything I read is 7 iron shot not a sweep? I top 25% of my hybrid shots now annoyingly, so maybe sweeping will make this worst?

virge666
27th December 2014, 05:27 PM
What razaar said.

Let the club swing past the body

SirTop
27th December 2014, 05:42 PM
Toppy
What I did when learning to play in a previous life to stop slicing the driver and fairway woods was to learn to swing past my body. To do this the spine stays very centered throughout the swing and the head stays back with the left side of the face staying to the right of the ball position until well past impact. The focus is to hit the inside quadrant of the ball while not allowing your spine to tilt towards the target. If there is tilt it should be away from the target, caused by the hips staying ahead of the shoulders.
Thanks Razaar

So, I block the odd shot to the right too because my hips and body goes through way too fast and my hands lag way behind, resulting in an awful fade or block right.

Your suggestion could well be a good remedy in general

Visualising your comments about the face staying right of the ball position is a bit of a struggle though, maybe best seen on a video or in person but will try it out at the range next time.

razaar
27th December 2014, 06:35 PM
Toppy
Shouldn't be an issue if you swing around your spine without allowing the shoulders to catch up to the hips. Read my first post in the "flipping" thread on how to use the lower body to do that. My Christmas gift to you.:wink:

SirTop
27th December 2014, 07:11 PM
Toppy
Shouldn't be an issue if you swing around your spine without allowing the shoulders to catch up to the hips. Read my first post in the "flipping" thread on how to use the lower body to do that. My Christmas gift to you.:wink:
Good man thanks mate, will do
:)

dannycallaz
27th December 2014, 09:09 PM
Thanks, it's a TM RBZ tour 18.5 3hy, currently set to between standard and higher loft

I try hitting down on it like a 7 iron, and generally they fade or slice away.

I don't slice my irons at all.

My favourite club in the bag! Got this one dialled in for between 215-230.

What I have found is the old one two tempo suits best.

You definitely need a flatter swing to produce a nicely flighted long ball that lands softly and is a bloody good fairway finder when nothing else is behaving. Practice makes perfect with the hybrids to see where it fits in best

virge666
28th December 2014, 11:52 AM
Sweep not 7iron its a long iron

exactly.


Thanks, it's a TM RBZ tour 18.5 3hy, currently set to between standard and higher loft

I try hitting down on it like a 7 iron, and generally they fade or slice away.

I don't slice my irons at all.

Your getting steep on the ball with 18 degrees of loft... please stop that.

It has 18 degrees of loft which is less that a old 2 iron... if you have to hit down on it to get it airbourne... you have the wrong club.

it is a 4 wood. or a week 3 wood. shallow it out and get the ball in the air with the least amount of effort you can... if it doesnt go high enough get a 5W with 19 or 20 degrees and let the club do all the hard work.

razaar
28th December 2014, 12:32 PM
Virge, Good point about the steep downswing.
Toppy, use a side arm cricket throw over the stumps action in your downswing to flatten the swing plane and achieve a level swing path through the impact zone. All clubs with a flat sole are designed for this type of swing path.

SirTop
5th January 2015, 06:53 PM
Virge, Good point about the steep downswing.
Toppy, use a side arm cricket throw over the stumps action in your downswing to flatten the swing plane and achieve a level swing path through the impact zone. All clubs with a flat sole are designed for this type of swing path.

Thanks Razaar, Virge

Ok, I'll try that and the cricket analogy is what makes it easier to understand.

I tried my 4 wood off the deck at KGC on Sunday, awful fade off to the right and into the water.

Need to sort this out quick smart...

razaar
6th January 2015, 07:46 AM
Just be aware that with this downswing the clubface will be more open through the forward pitch of the right elbow which if not addressed will lead to an open clubface through impact. It will be an issue if your release is a flip - open clubface + flip = slice; square clubface + flip = straight to weak fade; closed clubface + flip = hook.
The golden rule is to address the clubface first. If you are slicing then the grip needs strengthening. Also the clubface needs to be closing instead of opening during the takeaway with the right elbow being forced in and down. During the backswing the right forearm is trying to close the clubface. That is how to address an open clubface.

yoyo
6th January 2015, 08:16 AM
Im gonna wait and see what Mike O has to say about it.

razaar
6th January 2015, 09:44 AM
Don't tell Mike O that he was wrong about his concept of the 1st person and 3rd person. He was keen to direct us away from the flipping thread. Maybe he was a flipper in college. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

jocker
6th January 2015, 05:58 PM
exactly.



Your getting steep on the ball with 18 degrees of loft... please stop that.

It has 18 degrees of loft which is less that a old 2 iron... if you have to hit down on it to get it airbourne... you have the wrong club.

it is a 4 wood. or a week 3 wood. shallow it out and get the ball in the air with the least amount of effort you can... if it doesnt go high enough get a 5W with 19 or 20 degrees and let the club do all the hard work.

If the ball is on the ground, surely you have to hit down on it to some degree, or else you will knife it. Do you mean "think about sweeping it because you will hit less down?". I for one find it really hard to change my swing between irons and driver to hit up on the driver - and would really struggle to refine that with different lofts/hybrids. Maybe that is why I am shite.

thecollective
6th January 2015, 06:19 PM
ST: take it out the bag and give it a rest for a while. Acquire a long iron or driving iron and hit that for a while. Once that turns sour you can go back to the hybrid.

Works wonders for me.

TC

SirTop
8th January 2015, 10:23 PM
Thanks guys for the suggestions, I've just got to get to the range and have a swing and a think about some of the ideas, time is the tricky thing.

I decided that it would be good to post a swing vid, because I should have mentioned way earlier, but I have a terrible too far inside swing, as you can see.

This leads to all sorts of inconsistencies, including pull hooks, blocks, the occasional strong fade or slice with irons or driver but mostly fairways/hybrids.

One day I shoot 43 points (last weds with Blu at Camden, the next I get 35 points the next day at KGC but hit ordinary contact and pull hook my mid to long irons.

Anyway, the clip below will give more insight into my swing I think.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ftAhlOtpuaA

razaar
10th January 2015, 10:58 PM
Toppy
This is my take on the swing in the video. I found it pretty hard to see much from the angle, but you can check these out your self.
From the takeaway it looks all upper body driven.
The arms look like they are outpacing the shoulders halfway into the backswing which tends to indicate that the arm plane is too inside.
The arm swing looks too long for mine with that club, more an arm swing length for a driver swing.
The transition and downswing look to be upper body driven with the clubhead outpacing the hands before the hands get to waist height causing a flip coming from the outside with a shut clubface.
The right elbow has been left behind, where it should be moving faster than the hands during the first part of the downswing.
The position of the left upper arm at the end of the follow through indicates a clubhead that is slowing down through impact. The upper arm would be parallel with the ground at the finish if the left forearm had been ahead of the shaft through impact.
That's my 5 cents.

oldracer
11th January 2015, 09:16 AM
I bought an Adams 19* Idea Black a while ago and it was a couldn't miss bat from the get go.....then for no apparent reason it started going left, obviously swing but I couldn't work it out. Work stopped me from practising and playing for the best part of a month until last friday night, a 4 ball ambrose and voila, it was back to it's best behaviour. I had been trying a few different things in my swing from a couple of lessons that translated to a steeper angle of attack. Went back to taking it back low, trying to get the "sweep" and it worked, for how long....who knows, until after the 10th of feb I hope

SirTop
11th January 2015, 11:34 AM
Toppy
This is my take on the swing in the video. I found it pretty hard to see much from the angle, but you can check these out your self.
From the takeaway it looks all upper body driven.
The arms look like they are outpacing the shoulders halfway into the backswing which tends to indicate that the arm plane is too inside.
The arm swing looks too long for mine with that club, more an arm swing length for a driver swing.
The transition and downswing look to be upper body driven with the clubhead outpacing the hands before the hands get to waist height causing a flip coming from the outside with a shut clubface.
The right elbow has been left behind, where it should be moving faster than the hands during the first part of the downswing.
The position of the left upper arm at the end of the follow through indicates a clubhead that is slowing down through impact. The upper arm would be parallel with the ground at the finish if the left forearm had been ahead of the shaft through impact.
That's my 5 cents.

Thanks Razaar

I might start a new thread for my swing, and swing plane issues because I went to the range today and took another video and overlayed lines.

Disc: I'll be going to see my coach again soon but still keen to get feedback here.

On top of what you've said (which all sounds stop on), I take the club way off plane.

Whenever I try to keep it on plane I misshit awfully off to the right.

It simply feels like I don't have enough room to bring the club head in line with the target at the ball contact point

I'm frustrated with it all because I played a good level of cricket and it just feels completely unnatural to me, and doesn't feel like I'm going to be able to adjust.

A pro at the range said my grip is way too strong too and my right hand has to be higher up on the left hand (joining the two more) which feels like I've got no power or stability whatsoever.

Correcting this also felt horrible and resulted in even more shots flying off to the right.

As I said before, I can get around in the low 80's (last 10 games have been 35 to 43 points) with average high 30's but it's still making me feel like I'm fighting a losing battle if I'm not correcting the underlying execution and mechanics, as you pointed out there's a lot of things to sort out.

I only started playing golf 20 months ago, but still I've got a fair bit of strength and sporting coordination which makes it all the more frustrating.

Chipping and wedge play are pretty solid now funnily enough but I recognise that they're a different swing to a point.

SirTop
11th January 2015, 05:29 PM
Rehearsed what I needed to do well (on plane at least) but then proceeded to pull the club behind the line right away


http://youtu.be/VBQwXouHaTc

davidw88
11th January 2015, 05:43 PM
Try to keep the cup in the left wrist you have at address in the takeaway which may help you from pulling the club head inside.

SirTop
11th January 2015, 05:49 PM
Try to keep the cup in the left wrist you have at address in the takeaway which may help you from pulling the club head inside.

Hi David, sorry, cup in left wrist?

davepuppies
11th January 2015, 06:10 PM
Handle ahead of clubhead in first part of takeaway, ie start with hands not whip away clubhead

SirTop
11th January 2015, 07:53 PM
Try to keep the cup in the left wrist you have at address in the takeaway which may help you from pulling the club head inside.

Ok thanks.

Been practising this in the lounge with my 7 year old son's PW (it's obviously very short).

I was watching Bubba Watson today and he really winds up behind the ball.

I've got a feeling I need to get back to standard length shafts, feels like I'm dragging a tree trunk back, which works ok for my inside swing, but feels difficult to pull the club head down on plane when trying to swing properly.

I've got a set of Wilson Staff FG Tour V2 irons on the way, with standard length C tapers so will test out the theory with these in the next few days :)

Steve
11th January 2015, 08:11 PM
Nice irons, I have the same

SirTop
11th January 2015, 08:12 PM
Nice irons, I have the same

Nice one, enjoying them obviously?

What shafts did you get.

benno_r
11th January 2015, 08:14 PM
Ok thanks.

Been practising this in the lounge with my 7 year old son's PW (it's obviously very short).

I was watching Bubba Watson today and he really winds up behind the ball.

I've got a feeling I need to get back to standard length shafts, feels like I'm dragging a tree trunk back, which works ok for my inside swing, but feels difficult to pull the club head down on plane when trying to swing properly.

I've got a set of Wilson Staff FG Tour V2 irons on the way, with standard length C tapers so will test out the theory with these in the next few days :)

ST,

The first thing Jack at Cool Clubs said about my 1" long irons, was "you setup with them too far away which promotes you moving the club heads by rolling the wrists". I too was getting it way inside, which in turn led me being way laid off at the top.

He shortened my irons back to 0.25" over, and had me work on getting to club parallel to ground with the head outside the hands. Still haven't grooved it, but it certainly leads to much better ball striking when I get it right.

Caveat: I am a hacker, and not best qualified to offer swing advise :D

Cheers,
Ben

Steve
11th January 2015, 08:18 PM
Nice one, enjoying them obviously?

What shafts did you get.

C-tapers, great irons, just a point of note I think they are weaker lofts than TM & Titty if I remember correctly.

SirTop
11th January 2015, 08:23 PM
C-tapers, great irons, just a point of note I think they are weaker lofts than TM & Titty if I remember correctly.

Ok thanks, absolutely hanging to get them now.

I game Mizzie Jpx 825's now anyway, I think they'll be a manageable transition and think lofts might be on par

SirTop
11th January 2015, 08:32 PM
ST,

The first thing Jack at Cool Clubs said about my 1" long irons, was "you setup with them too far away which promotes you moving the club heads by rolling the wrists". I too was getting it way inside, which in turn led me being way laid off at the top.

He shortened my irons back to 0.25" over, and had me work on getting to club parallel to ground with the head outside the hands. Still haven't grooved it, but it certainly leads to much better ball striking when I get it right.

Caveat: I am a hacker, and not best qualified to offer swing advise :D

Cheers,
Ben

Thanks Ben

I'll try the standard length C tapers coming in the Wilson's, hoping it will make a difference.

I've been told to stand closer to the ball too but I shank it if I do or hit it fat.

Feels like there's not enough space to get the club head down and square to the target at the moment.

**** me, stupid game, it shouldn't be this difficult or technical (after years of playing decent level cricket)

razaar
11th January 2015, 08:33 PM
Toppy
Just to confuse the issue, you are doing just about everything wrong. The only reason you perform well on occasions is due to good hand/eye co-ordinaton and athleticism. Most amateur golfers play this way, some manage very well. I was one of them.
If you wish to break out of that mould then you need a different concept of the golf swing to what you have now.
An example is the takeaway and back swing. The correct backswing is a takeaway where the weight shifts to the right side and the club moves back along the plane line(ball/target line). The hands move parallel to the plane line as the weight is shifted across. The clubface is kept looking at the back of the ball until the weight shifts across. There is no pivot until the right leg braces and the weight has moved to the right leg. To do this correctly the forearms need to rotate counter- clockwise with the right elbow held down and in. The sequence of the backswing is the right knee braces first, followed by the right hip bracing, followed by the shoulders bracing, followed by the arms bracing, then the wrists compressing.
Bracing = joint fully loaded. The counter-clockwise rotation of the right forearm continues during the swing until well into the follow through.

SirTop
11th January 2015, 09:07 PM
Toppy
Just to confuse the issue, you are doing just about everything wrong. The only reason you perform well on occasions is due to good hand/eye co-ordinaton and athleticism. Most amateur golfers play this way, some manage very well. I was one of them.
If you wish to break out of that mould then you need a different concept of the golf swing to what you have now.
An example is the takeaway and back swing. The correct backswing is a takeaway where the weight shifts to the right side and the club moves back along the plane line(ball/target line). The hands move parallel to the plane line as the weight is shifted across. The clubface is kept looking at the back of the ball until the weight shifts across. There is no pivot until the right leg braces and the weight has moved to the right leg. To do this correctly the forearms need to rotate counter- clockwise with the right elbow held down and in. The sequence of the backswing is the right knee braces first, followed by the right hip bracing, followed by the shoulders bracing, followed by the arms bracing, then the wrists compressing.
Bracing = joint fully loaded. The counter-clockwise rotation of the right forearm continues during the swing until well into the follow through.

Thanks Razaar

I know I'm doing it all wrong and I want to get it sorted.

That's a lot to change, this could take a while...

razaar
11th January 2015, 10:16 PM
Just so that u understand my previous post - the reference point in the golf swing is the plane line. On plane refers to the shaft being parallel to the plane line when the shaft is parallel to the ground. Otherwise the shaft (butt or clubhead) will point to the extended plane line (towards the target or away from the target). The right forearm rotation (counter- clockwise at the bottom which becomes clockwise towards the top) with both elbows down is how the club is started on plane and arrives at the top on plane.
Staying centered is a given throughout the swing. The hands move parallel to the plane line during the backswing.
It will take u lots of practice to get the hang of it, but if u want a golf swing like the tour pros, then u need to master these elements of the backswing.

mrbluu
12th January 2015, 06:57 AM
Toppy u are a flusher, you just need to play at Camden Lakeside more ;-)

SirTop
12th January 2015, 06:59 AM
Toppy u are a flusher, you just need to play at Camden Lakeside more ;-)

Haha, yeah I felt like a flusher that day, at least you saw it :)

Look at my video though mate, that last one in particular, it'd badly off plane and I look like I'm swinging a cricket bat not a golf club

You've mentioned it with my wedges before, which funnily enough I've managed to improve on of late

mrbluu
12th January 2015, 07:09 AM
Haha, yeah I felt like a flusher that day, at least you saw it :)

Look at my video though mate, that last one in particular, it'd badly off plane and I look like I'm swinging a cricket bat not a golf club

You've mentioned it with my wedges before, which funnily enough I've managed to improve on of late
U are a cricketer so its hard for you to unlearn 30years of motor actions. I haven't seen the video, but I bet in looks like all your swings I see every time I play with u.

Seriously u have awesome hand eye coordination and smash the ball (u just can't hit it past short fat Asian kids [emoji13] ).

I could be wrong but I think u need to do one of 2 things.

1. embrace your cricket background and understand u will have some faults in your swing (so does everyone else) and work out how to time it better. U will have more good days than bad.

2. Complete change your setup and swing pattern to something more orthodox.