Aircraft techs

[golfbound]

Hi guys I'm trying to find some info on the HEPA filtration systems used on Boeing aircraft can anyone here help out of point me in the right direction

[Grunt]

Ahh what do you need to know?

[golfbound]

Long story but need to know how they work as my son got really sick and ended up in hospital for 9 days. The people in the seats in front of us on our flight were really sick to a point where the 3 year old didn't move the entire flight just caught his guts up and vomiting he stayed layer across 2 seats even during take off and landing. He had a distinct cough then a day and a half later my son got the same cough and ended up in hospital. The airline advised that you can not catch anything from anyone on a Boeing plane because they have HEPA filtration systems. So I'm just trying to find as much info as I can to see how these systems work

[Grunt]

Can only talk for 747 & 767 confidently but yes all the air in the aircon system is recirculated in HEPA filters

[golfbound]

Yes but what way does it filter font to back or from down to up in the cabin

[markTHEblake]

Interesting topic, met a lady in Sydney last week visiting from USA for a golf trip, Scratched her eye removing contact lense on the flight, got an infection from something in the air, and straight to hospital upon landing.

Welcome to australia, spent 4 weeks in hospital, cost over 100 grand and the prognosis is that they saved the eye but it's blind, and she needs a transplant.

Dunno about not catching anything on a airplane

[Grunt]

It filters the air as it is returned from the cabin and then distributes to the cabin through the air conditioning system. The movement of the air is basically up to down and then routed back up to the filters. The air you have at the start of the flight is the same air you have at the end. There is no fresh air so to speak on any pressurised aircraft.

[3Puttpete]

That's a lot of oxygen out and co2 in

[golfbound]

im trying to work out how the airline come up with the info that its highly unlike to catch something from a sick person not even 1 m away on and aircraft because of the HEPA filter.

[Ron Burgundy]

HEPA filtration should stop you catching something from someone at the other end of the plane but it won't stop you catching it from someone right next to you. HEPA filters mean that the air coming into the area is clean but if they spread the germs to you before it gets the the AC return air vents to be recycled and filtered, then HEPA won't help anything.

[golfbound]

Hard to find much info on this on the web A boeing diagram of airflow would be great lol

[3Puttpete]

Are you gonna sue them?

[golfbound]

no just not happy with there answer. I dont have money to sue anyone lol. just not happy paid 7k for a holiday and my son was in hospital the whole time because the airline staff allowed someone to fly who they shouldnt have.(Which they said this to me on the flight home). And then to top it off to they say its highly unlikely my son got sick on the plane because of the filter in the airconditioner. Wish i knew someone i probably would sue them. Havent had much luck lately with them. On another flight my wife got slammed up against a pole in the DPL (Disable Person Lift) and buised her back and had to see a chiro, on the same flight i got blown over on the tarmac when a plane fired its engine up when we were walking past. Just a night mare

[Scifisicko]

I heard somewhere that they top up the air in the cabin with bleed air from the engines. Maybe it was current affair......the gist was there are sometimes toxic fumes in the air in the cabin and crew and passengers were complaining of chronic illness.

[Hatchman]

no just not happy with there answer. I dont have money to sue anyone lol. just not happy paid 7k for a holiday and my son was in hospital the whole time because the airline staff allowed someone to fly who they shouldnt have.(Which they said this to me on the flight home). And then to top it off to they say its highly unlikely my son got sick on the plane because of the filter in the airconditioner. Wish i knew someone i probably would sue them. Havent had much luck lately with them. On another flight my wife got slammed up against a pole in the DPL (Disable Person Lift) and buised her back and had to see a chiro, on the same flight i got blown over on the tarmac when a plane fired its engine up when we were walking past. Just a night mare

You need to start a Golfbound Family Aventures Thread, the Hatchery may have some competition :razz:

[BUSHY]

no just not happy with there answer. I dont have money to sue anyone lol. just not happy paid 7k for a holiday and my son was in hospital the whole time because the airline staff allowed someone to fly who they shouldnt have.(Which they said this to me on the flight home). And then to top it off to they say its highly unlikely my son got sick on the plane because of the filter in the airconditioner. Wish i knew someone i probably would sue them. Havent had much luck lately with them. On another flight my wife got slammed up against a pole in the DPL (Disable Person Lift) and buised her back and had to see a chiro, on the same flight i got blown over on the tarmac when a plane fired its engine up when we were walking past. Just a night mare

I'd be catching a train next time.

[BUSHY]

Maybe you can decipher this.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/15/5962e740a170ec99cb9fa1caa9660cb7.jpg

[golfbound]

Thanks BUSHY its a start. Just need to find where the HEPA filter isand where the inlet and outlets are on a Boeing 737-800 pretty sure this is what does the Bali flights.

[benno_r]

This looks like a bleed air schematic, but doesn't cover the recirc pump, or filters.

It shows the air going down each sidewall, and returning from the recirc fan.

Maybe like this one:
33516

[Captain Nemo]

I know nothing about plane filters but I do about germs and viruses etc...
Whatever the kid in front had, only needs a few airborne droplets to land on the seat etc, then your son touches it, picks his nose, sucks his thumb, rubs his eye or the like, then bingo.

[golfbound]

Yep the kid infront when he did move poked hishead between the 2 seats looking what my kids were doing, letting a few big coughing fits out along the way, but the airlines works are its highly unlikely my son got sick from the kid infront because of the HEPA filter.

[3Puttpete]

That still doesn't sound like it makes sense. What was the exact question and the exact answer?

[golfbound]

I wanted to know how the HEPA filter is worked because my son got sick on the plane and spent nine days in hospital but the aniline advised it is highly unlikely to get sick on a plane of the filters

[3Puttpete]

I get that but I wondered about the exact wording of the question and answer

[Dotty]

Yep the kid infront when he did move poked hishead between the 2 seats looking what my kids were doing, letting a few big coughing fits out along the way, but the airlines works are its highly unlikely my son got sick from the kid infront because of the HEPA filter.
Did you mention this direct contact in the conversation with the airline?

I'm thinking the airline assumed that you were talking about a sick passenger spreading germs through the air, and not coughing directly on your son and the surfaces near your son.

You'd be clutching at straws to think that an air-conditioning system would undo the direct contact mentioned here.

[3Puttpete]

Did you mention this direct contact in the conversation with the airline? I'm thinking the airline assumed that you were talking about a sick passenger spreading germs through the air, and not coughing directly on your son and the surfaces near your son.You'd be clutching at straws to think that an air-conditioning system would undo the direct contact mentioned here.Thankyou...

[golfbound]

Did you mention this direct contact in the conversation with the airline?

I'm thinking the airline assumed that you were talking about a sick passenger spreading germs through the air, and not coughing directly on your son and the surfaces near your son.

You'd be clutching at straws to think that an air-conditioning system would undo the direct contact mentioned here.

Yes this was mentioned to the head air hostess and we asked to move but she said she was unable to move us at all. She spoke to the people infront and the young kid didnt turn around again but i think the damage was already done.

[3Puttpete]

Yes this was mentioned to the head air hostess and we asked to move but she said she was unable to move us at all. She spoke to the people infront and the young kid didnt turn around again but i think the damage was already done. Still only half a story. Who did you talk to at the airline? What exactly did you ask and what exactly did they reply?

[Cosmopolite]

Did you mention this direct contact in the conversation with the airline?

I'm thinking the airline assumed that you were talking about a sick passenger spreading germs through the air, and not coughing directly on your son and the surfaces near your son.

You'd be clutching at straws to think that an air-conditioning system would undo the direct contact mentioned here.

Exactly Dotty. No airconditioning system is going to stop those germs spreading.

[golfbound]

We wanted to know if they could issue us some sort of credit to be used with the airline for a future trip back there again as we spent 7k and spent all but 2 days in the hospital. I spoke to Matthew Dixon | Guest Experience Manager (Office of the CEO)

[golfbound]

I had to send them all the hospital reports, blood tests and everything. This is there reply

Dear ,

Thank you for taking the time to discuss your family’s unsatisfactory experience with our airline. I apologise on behalf of the ******** of airlines for the stress and inconvenience caused to you and your family. I do trust your family is on the mend and please accept the time taken to investigate this matter.

Due to the serious nature of the issues you and your family encountered a full investigation has been conducted. I have also sought the advice of our Doctor. Based on the information at hand we do not believe the illness was caused by the other guests on the flight. It is a lot less likely to become ill on board an aircraft rather than on the ground. The reason for is because the aircraft has a system called a HEPA Filtration systems. These are hospital strength filtration systems and will trap most of the organisms in the cabin.

Once again I apologise unreservedly for the poor experience that you and your family had on this occasion. I do hope that we will have the opportunity to demonstrate our commitment to service excellence on a *********** airline flight in the near future.

Yours sincerely

Matt

[3Puttpete]

So you asked if you could have free flights because it's their fault your boy got sick and they said nah, probably not.

How many others on the flight ended up in hospital?

[Webster]

Money grubbing at its worst.

[golfbound]

We only asked because the hostess said it was there fault and the person should not have flew she said they go through a number of check points and they should have been picked up. She was the one that said she would email in and organise a credit for the flights. That is how this all came about. If she didnt admit to this and mention the flights then nothing would have been done or said.

We fly alot and have had alot of problems previously and have said nothing

[golfbound]

not sure how many others got it.

[Dotty]

Have you spoken to your travel insurance broker?

[golfbound]

yes they only covered the hospital bills, because we actually travelled and were there the duration of the trip plus 2 extra days (because my son was unfit to fly) they couldnt do anything for flights or accomodation, all they covered was the hospital bills and ambulance transfers.

[Waddzy]

Have you spoken to your travel insurance broker?
This will be the only compensation you will get , hence the reason they have travel insurance. A kid coughing on a plane isnt exactly uncommon. Hell when I went down for Vic champs the bloke next to me seemed like he was about to cark it on the plane and that wouldn't of really been Virgins fault if I got sick.

Its a shame you holiday was ruined but hopefully being compensated via travel insurance will solve what you think learning about the air con system would do..

[golfbound]

Yep dont think i will go anywhere it was just the flight hostess said what she said.

[RobNewy]

The only way a HEPA filter would stop a disease transmission is if the kid was wrapped in it.

[RobNewy]

I will try to take some photos of a Global Express manual today and post them up.

[golfbound]

Thanks RobNewy

[RobNewy]

33591

[RobNewy]

[attach=config]33592[/attach

[RobNewy]

33593

[golfbound]

Thanks Rob Is there any diagrams of where the air comes into the cabin and exits the cabin? Im looking for a circulation pattern

[RobNewy]

33594

[RobNewy]

I will see if i can find any other easier pictures, but it will be a very simple air conditioning system

[RobNewy]

33595

[RobNewy]

So basically cold conditioned air comes into the cabin from the eyeball vents in the panel above your head.
Warm conditioned air enters the cabin at foot level, usually from the bottom of the sidewalls

Everyone coughs and farts, the air is drawn towards the rear of the aircraft, were a recirculation fan drags it out and its used for a a veriaty of things.
Some aircraft it gets put back into the aircon system, others, it uses it for pressurisation control, others it cools avionics.

No idea on a 737 and no idea on the HEPA filters

Some aircraft the recirculated air iis used to cool avionics, some it enters the system again

[golfbound]

Thanks Rob

[Grunt]

Pretty close to the mark Rob. No Amount of filtering will stop an air borne bug from passengers. If you want to not be exposed to this you would have to wear a mask or not travel. The AC system is no different to any shopping centre in this regard.
Sorry if that is not what you wanted to hear. Your son could have even picked up the bug in the terminal before boarding. I have not ties with airlines just saying it how it is.

[oldracer]

Griswald bus travelling Australia sounds like a great next trip

[Captain Nemo]

Pretty close to the mark Rob. No Amount of filtering will stop an air borne bug from passengers. If you want to not be exposed to this you would have to wear a mask or not travel. The AC system is no different to any shopping centre in this regard.
Sorry if that is not what you wanted to hear. Your son could have even picked up the bug in the terminal before boarding. I have not ties with airlines just saying it how it is.

Pretty much what I stated, as grunt said, he could have picked up a bug anywhere....
Hand hygiene is extremely important.
Whenever we travel, domestic or inter, we carry hand cleanse gel or the like and clean the kids hands constantly
Nothing worse getting sick on your hols.
Good luck with sorting out the situation....