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View Full Version : The Shorter Hitters Thread



Buzz
4th October 2014, 06:48 AM
Several threads have got me thinking of late ... The Game Golf thread, the 3W thread and some others. I'm never going to be a big hitter of the ball and my best rounds are usually when I'm at peace with this. 90% of the time though I'm thrashing at the ball in the vain unconscious hope that I'll gain distance.

Hearing from players like Daves and Dotty though with caps way lower than mine ... I figured its time to really try and break this mindset. So I thought I'd try and start this thread as a permanent repository for those of us that don't hit the ball far but still manage to play a decent round. I'm not sure where this will go...perhaps some links to good articles on course management, perhaps some thought from lower cappers who have come to terms with a lack of distance in their game. Not even sure if this belongs here or in the new academy forum.

Let me start by asking the question.... For those of you shorter hitters with caps well lower than 18, how do you approach holes where distance is a major factor? If a GIR is just physically out of the question, that must put enormous pressure to get close enough to one putt?

benno_r
4th October 2014, 07:22 AM
Dotty might be the king of Straighty-180, but Daves gives it a fair belt.

Hidepenny
4th October 2014, 07:23 AM
When Jason day had good scores in the last 12 months, he said he just aimed for the centre of the green as a strategy...not that he was a short hitter but I think it'd benefit someone wanting a good score.

Dotty
4th October 2014, 07:30 AM
Great thread!

To answer your second question, the term GIR is your problem. That works fine on television's armchair analysts, discussing the level playing field of the PGA. But club players have a handful (or two handfuls) of shots with their handicap, so using GIR is like playing tennis against Nick Kyrgios or league against the Burgess brothers - it ain't going end well.

If you want to keep stats, then use Greens In Handicap (GIH) instead.
So, if you get a shot on a par3, then your pass mark will be to get on in 2, not 1.
Ditto, a 'double bunger' on the hardest par 4, then your pass mark is to get on in 4, not 2.

See how that goes over the next few games.

I'd love to type more, but I want to get 30mins of chipping practice in, as I have a game this arvo. That is also the answer to your first question.

Buzz
4th October 2014, 07:40 AM
Thanks Dotty and I agree. I have that mentality now .... Or at least I aspire to it :)

Where I am intrigued is how that works when you play off say 10. Ok, I appreciate that often the longer holes may be covered by the extra shot but this isn't always the case, especially on par threes. You still have eight holes where you really do need to make that GIR.

Playing off 20 I obviously don't have to worry about that yet, but I'm still interested in how that works :)

Hux
4th October 2014, 08:23 AM
I played a lot with my Dad and his mates. Dad is now 80 and still out there 3 times a week playing of @ 19 generally. His lowest in the old days was 9 so he has a short game.

He can still have a played to hcp in a monthly medal on a 6300mm course and a good hit for him is 180m - actually make that a real good hit.
His mentality is that most par fours are actually par 5's and that is his handicap. He maximised his opportunities on par 3's except the long ones where he plays a very conservative strategy and relies on getting it into the right range and location for his chip shots.
In all honesty he plays golf for pure enjoyment of being out there, slagging his mates, having a bet on the game (and he is a #$&#( shark who will pull out the former A grade short game to win the tight games). There is a lot to learn from that - I hope I can get there rather than being so wound up about it at times.

Daves
4th October 2014, 08:43 AM
Thanks Dotty and I agree. I have that mentality now .... Or at least I aspire to it :)

Where I am intrigued is how that works when you play off say 10. Ok, I appreciate that often the longer holes may be covered by the extra shot but this isn't always the case, especially on par threes. You still have eight holes where you really do need to make that GIR.

Playing off 20 I obviously don't have to worry about that yet, but I'm still interested in how that works :)

I have kept stats for ever ( well over 500 rounds) and I have averaged about 5 GIR over the long term. If I have really good ball striking round I can get that up to 10/12. My long term average for up and downs is 3 per round, and I average just under 1 birdie per round.

My suggestions/observations would be;

You need a short game, and it is the thing I practice the most these days. It is amazing for example how if you are confident with bunker shots, you seem to rarely end up in them. I even practice putting from the fringe, as I find my GIR misses are often only a case of a metre of 2. Bunting a Hybrid putt close, when I am a little further away, is also a specialty of mine.

Know your swing, typical ball flight, and then work out the best place(s) to miss. Aiming for the centre of the green for tight pin positions, is usually a smart strategy.

Know the holes where length off the tee isn't as critical as have the ball in play i.e. you will still be playing a short club in, or it is a lay up tee shot if you are being sensible. Use the club that you have the most confidence in keeping the shot in play. There is probably only 20 to 25m spread between my driver, my 3 wood and my #2 Hybrid.

Make sure you are aiming at specific target, not just a general area. Aiming for the centre of the green is just that, aiming to just hit the green is never a good swing thought.

This one is probably one of the most important, always take enough club. If in doubt take one club more every time. I often take 2 clubs more and swing as smoothly as can, just focusing on making good contact with a good aim.

Buzz
4th October 2014, 08:53 AM
Awesome stuff guys I love it, this is what I was hoping for :)

I think also its a belief thing. I loved Rotella's books and fundamentally this is the sort of thing he advocates. When it comes right down to it though I think I'm a bit "mentally" capped at 20 if that makes sense ...I'm not sure I really believe that I can play lower than that ... and as a consequence, I don't!

Totally agree with your point on bunkers. I play them poorly so my course management strategy is basically to take them out of play completely.

Example: second hole at Belconnen, my home club. From the blue comp tees its a 165m par 3. Bunker front left, but right half of the green is open. Being long is a problem because there is a sharp slope off the back. I get a shot so I have been playing this as a par four and basically laying up with 6hy to take the bunker out of play completely. Its the safe option and a simple chip then gets you on for two and the "HIR" as Dotty suggested. But it's a pretty negative play, based entirely around avoiding the bunker.

I'd love to improve my bunker play but realistically I have no time in my life right now to practice. I'm lucky to get a round a week. So for my circumstances, playing it like a par four is probably my best strategy.

mrbluu
4th October 2014, 08:55 AM
Dotty is indeed the king when it comes to splitting fairways and playing to strengths and within yourself. Also GIR is overrated. Regardless of what handicap u are on or how far u hit it, if u have a decent short game then it makes the game so much easier.

I'm not talking about hitting high spinning flip shots, but just normal straight forward chips when u are about 20-30m away from the flag. Also practice your putting, especially inside 10feet.

Last 2 rounds I've hit 5 and 8 girs and shot 74 & 78 (par 70).

This is a cracking thread were Bob To tell a talks about hitting 6 GIRS a.d shooting 6 under.

http://www.ozgolf.net/showthread.php/102-Can-you-shoot-6-with-only-6-greens-in-regulation

Buzz
4th October 2014, 09:09 AM
Good bimp MrBluu I remember that thread now :)

Daylight saving starts tonight I must try and get down the oval and practice wedges at the towel as a target!

Dotty
4th October 2014, 09:09 AM
Where I am intrigued is how that works when you play off say 10. Ok, I appreciate that often the longer holes may be covered by the extra shot but this isn't always the case, especially on par threes. You still have eight holes where you really do need to make that GIR.

There's an old saying ... What you lose on the swings, you gain on the roundabouts. I immediately dismiss a bogey on a non-shot hole, and think about a safe scoring strategy for each remaining hole. This involves looking for the safe places to miss, for all shots, as those 1 in 10 hero shots realistically only come off 1 time in 10 attempts.

And par 3s are just driving range shots - you have a good lie, a distance and a target, so just play your own game.
When my fellow competitors are hitting their 8 iron to a pin at 148m, I have no problem pulling out my 4 hybrid (provided I have a safe spot to land it and run up to the hole) and hitting the same distance.

I also enjoy basking in the limelight, as the tortoise closes in on the hare.

mrbluu
4th October 2014, 09:19 AM
And par 3s are just driving range shots - you have a good lie, a distance and a target, so just play your own game.
When my fellow competitors are hitting their 8 iron to a pin at 148m, I have no problem pulling out my 4 hybrid (provided I have a safe spot to land it and run up to the hole) and hitting the same distance.

I also enjoy basking in the limelight, as the tortoise closes in on the hare.


Don't sell yourself short (no pun intended) Betty, it was my 7 iron to your 5 hybrid. U also hit it to 3ft to my 3m. Hole halved in 2's ;-)

Buzz
4th October 2014, 09:25 AM
Ahhh I am glad I started this thread! It seems so blindingly obvious really ... but it is so easy to fall into the trap of trying to play to someone elses idea of good golf (ie using the lowest club possible) rather than just playing to my strengths. My putting has always been generally decent ... but I still have a lot of room for improvement with the wedges.

So Dotty, that "30 mins chipping" you mentioned this morning ... can you break down typically what you work on in a short session? I don't have ready access to practice facilities other than a 10 min walk to the local oval.

Shortylook
4th October 2014, 09:43 AM
Love this thread, I probably havnt got any advice but I'll be soaking up all the advice that is given here

Dotty
4th October 2014, 09:50 AM
So Dotty, that "30 mins chipping" you mentioned this morning ... can you break down typically what you work on in a short session? I don't have ready access to practice facilities other than a 10 min walk to the local oval.
I keep 8 old balls in the car, and generally start with 8 shots with a 56* to a pin 10-15m away, concentrating on how the club moves through the grass and how the ball rolls out (or not). The aim is to take away the second guessing out on the course, wondering if the ground and the greens are harder/softer/etc. than my last game.

Hit them back the other way with a 52*, concentrating on the same. Repeat with the 60*, and back with the PW (but that rolled too much, so I won't chip with it today, unless I have a lot of green between me and the hole). Today, I repeated the 56* and 52*, so I had a total of nearly 50 hits. Other times I may change to 3-5m pitches, in case I am short-sided, or go for the Hollywood lob wedges over a bunker.

Finished with 8 putts of 10m and 8 of 5m, just to get some confidence that my stroke is online, and judgement of distance is fine.

Buzz
4th October 2014, 10:10 AM
Awesome :)

Glad people are finding this a good thread ... any further tips, links, discussion welcome!

3Puttpete
4th October 2014, 11:12 AM
Hit straight. Ignore Rotella

jimandr
4th October 2014, 11:21 AM
I refuse to take any part in this thread. I didn't come here to be insulted (Hey Hey Its Saturday fans can insert the next line).

Distance is a bit like age. In the same way that people older than you are old, people who hit it shorter than you are short hitters.

The secret to good scoring, no matter how far you hit it, is to minimise mistakes, and then to minimise the damage after you have made a mistake.' For me, this means trying to execute the basics and hit a good shot, while being realistic about the target you set yourself. If I can't hit an approach over a bunker and hold the green, then I'm trying to avoid the bunker and trickle onto the part of the green not protected by the bunker. Risk and Reward. If the risk is too great, find the reward somewhere else. Generally in such situations I'm not trying for birdie, so par is my aim, and bogey is acceptable.

Sometimes that is boring golf, but achieving what you set out to achieve can be as fun as pulling off the hero shot. On my good driving days when I hit every fairway playing partners sometimes jokingly claim that is boring golf. My answer is that playing from the fairway is never boring.

It helps a lot to know your game and your limitations. As a general rule I can't hit high, soft-landing fades, so I don't try. I can, however, hit low running draws and hooks, so I'll take that shot on if it is needed. My chipping isn't always dependable, so I'll putt from off the green whenever I can.

It might be a bit hard to organise, but if we are ever all the same place at the same time, we must have a challenge, and a separate champion for the Shorter Hitters Society. Maybe we can get Corey Pavin to present the trophy.

Regarding the dreaded long par 4, treat it as a par 5. Try to hit your second into a position where 5 is the worst score you should get.

Buzz
4th October 2014, 12:44 PM
I refuse to take any part in this thread. I didn't come here to be insulted (Hey Hey Its Saturday fans can insert the next line).



No insults allowed in this thread, long hitters can bugger off into the rest of the forum :)

On the long par 4's, I agree they get treated as par 5's. Thinking about it more (the whole point of this thread!), it probably isnt the long par 4s that are the issue as it is easy to treat them as par5s as you say.

Par3's are the bigger issue. I find it mentally difficult to treat them as par 4's unless the test they pose is just length. It's more the mid par 3's with lots of danger, say 145-170m. They are holes that we can all reach, even if the club we use might be a hybrid or wood rather than a shorter iron. But I don't usually have enough control over them to go for it even though I can reach.

AndyP
4th October 2014, 01:14 PM
Regarding the dreaded long par 4, treat it as a par 5. Try to hit your second into a position where 5 is the worst score you should get.
I like to think of them as par 4.5 holes. I want to try to get that approach shot somewhere safely in the general area of the green, giving me the best chance of getting up and down. If I get a 4, it's a bonus, but I won't be upset if I take a 5.

As others have said, it is all about knowing your own limitations and managing your game around that. I used to do up my own course guides for foreign courses that tell me where the potential safe misses on greens are, as well as suggested clubs off the tee to avoid trouble.

Buzz
4th October 2014, 01:24 PM
Andy I love that last point on the course guides. I actually wrote one up for my home course as well, using the Rotella strategy of "working backwards" from the green.

The problem is finding the time to refer to it. With GameGolf and Golfshot I already feel a bit overwhelmed with things to do, and at times last round I really felt rushed. I hate that feeling on the golf course. Now I have GameGolf I'm going to drop recording the scores in GolfShot as that really is a bit redundant.

I know you love your game stats so I am curious how you manage your time on the course without feeling rushed.

Buzz
4th October 2014, 01:31 PM
Also mods: please move to the Academy if that is more appropriate!

Steve
4th October 2014, 01:32 PM
I don't believe that any short people should be hit :)

Buzz
4th October 2014, 01:34 PM
I don't believe that any short people should be hit :)

Geez Steve just take all the fun out of it whydontya! :P

Steve
4th October 2014, 01:36 PM
:)

AndyP
4th October 2014, 01:53 PM
I know you love your game stats so I am curious how you manage your time on the course without feeling rushed.Try and do as much as you can before you get to your ball or while someone else is playing their shot. I carry my bag, so I always have two hands free for writing scores or recording stats.

Here's an example of the course guide that I used to do, to get myself to play smarter and manage my game.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hbz5624s0l0ovpl/Sandgate%20Guide.pdf?dl=0

Buzz
4th October 2014, 02:08 PM
Love it Andy .... How do you carry that on the day? Where do you get the info beforehand? I have managed to find some info on Robina Woods for my upcoming round but not much on Royal Pines.

Also its amazingly reassuring, your club selections aren't radically different from mine.

AndyP
4th October 2014, 02:27 PM
Love it Andy .... How do you carry that on the day? Where do you get the info beforehand? I have managed to find some info on Robina Woods for my upcoming round but not much on Royal Pines.

Also its amazingly reassuring, your club selections aren't radically different from mine.
It's just a folded up piece of paper, which I would keep inside the scorecard. The information to develop it would come from a combination of course websites/guides and Google Earth. I did put a bit a fair bit of time into them back then.

You asked before how you could use this sort of thing without being rushed, but couldn't it save time? With a plan, you don't always have to make a decision about what shot/club to play, because you have already planned what you are going to do.

As for my distances, I would hit a 7I about 135m.

wizard_of_oz
4th October 2014, 03:44 PM
My playing partner was a 5 hcp. He didn't drive very different distances from me, some holes he'd out drive me, others I would out drive him. What he did have was good control of his irons and hybrids and was not often had a horrible miss. His chipping and putting was also fantastic, with the second shot an easy tap in or at most a 3 footer which he would sink. Putting is paramount if you want to shoot a good score.

jimandr
4th October 2014, 04:53 PM
Par3's are the bigger issue. I find it mentally difficult to treat them as par 4's unless the test they pose is just length. It's more the mid par 3's with lots of danger, say 145-170m. They are holes that we can all reach, even if the club we use might be a hybrid or wood rather than a shorter iron. But I don't usually have enough control over them to go for it even though I can reach.

Let's get one thing out the way early. We are on the golf course to have fun. The most fun you can have is getting a hole in one. So we never lay up on par 3's, even if it means hitting driver.

The exception is the par 3 we can't reach, even if we hit driver. The few Qlders who still frequent this forum may know or recall the 12th at Arundel Hills. 210m uphill. I hit driver and was still 30 short. What a stupid hole.

Holes like that you just have to play for a 4, treat a 3 as a bonus, and move on.

Maybe we can use this thread as a lobby group to ban the 200+ plus par 3.

AndyP
4th October 2014, 05:09 PM
Jim, I used driver on that hole too. I hit a great shot and got it on the green, but it left a shit of a putt and it took me three more to get it in.
I've used driver on par 3s several times, despite ridicule from others sometimes. I won an NTP at an OZgolf Champs with a driver one year. There's something about having that target of the pin, that sometimes brings the best out of my driver.

Buzz
4th October 2014, 05:23 PM
Let's get one thing out the way early. We are on the golf course to have fun. The most fun you can have is getting a hole in one. So we never lay up on par 3's, even if it means hitting driver.




Hmmm not sure I agree ... I played at Federal last week, 160mish par three surrounded by bunkers. I went for it ... and of course ended up in a bunker, and then wiped. I had a shot on the hole, course management would have been to treat it as a par four, lay up with a nine iron, then chip on for a HIR green.

All depends what the objective is I guess.

Lagerlover
4th October 2014, 06:13 PM
I played a lot with my Daves and his mates. Daves is now 80 and still out there 3 times a week playing.

I've always been too scared to ask...

Hux
4th October 2014, 07:14 PM
Let's get one thing out the way early. We are on the golf course to have fun. The most fun you can have is getting a hole in one. So we never lay up on par 3's, even if it means hitting driver.

The exception is the par 3 we can't reach, even if we hit driver. The few Qlders who still frequent this forum may know or recall the 12th at Arundel Hills. 210m uphill. I hit driver and was still 30 short. What a stupid hole.

Holes like that you just have to play for a 4, treat a 3 as a bonus, and move on.

Maybe we can use this thread as a lobby group to ban the 200+ plus par 3.

Stupid hole - absolutely impossible green to putt on after a tough tee shot. A 4 is a good score.

mrbluu
4th October 2014, 07:48 PM
Putting is paramount if you want to shoot a good score.

True, but if you are not hitting it inside 10ft, I don't care how well you putt, over the course of a season you aren't going to make a lot of putts.

3oneday
4th October 2014, 07:56 PM
Dotty is indeed the king when it comes to splitting fairways and playing to strengths and within yourself. Also GIR is overrated. Regardless of what handicap u are on or how far u hit it, if u have a decent short game then it makes the game so much easier.

I'm not talking about hitting high spinning flip shots, but just normal straight forward chips when u are about 20-30m away from the flag. Also practice your putting, especially inside 10feet.

Last 2 rounds I've hit 5 and 8 girs and shot 74 & 78 (par 70).

This is a cracking thread were Bob To tell a talks about hitting 6 GIRS a.d shooting 6 under.

http://www.ozgolf.net/showthread.php/102-Can-you-shoot-6-with-only-6-greens-in-regulationi would say i'm mid distance, lucky enough to have played two rounds last 3 days.

Missed one fairway in the combined rounds, hit 6 greens first day for 7 over and 4 greens today for 8 over.

I'd say i'm ordinary currently inside 100, probably miss more greens than i hit. If i were you, these are the shots i'd practice cause if you are a short hitter, getting these on will lower your scores.

wizard_of_oz
4th October 2014, 08:12 PM
True, but if you are not hitting it inside 10ft, I don't care how well you putt, over the course of a season you aren't going to make a lot of putts.Not a lot of good birdie opportunities if you don't hit it to within 10 feet, that's true. But if you're a gun with your chipping and putting from 20-30 feet after your approach shot, then you can save par a lot of times.

aussieashley
4th October 2014, 08:44 PM
Like the others have said, short game and minimise damage. No penalties.
An extra tip, use the tee box. All of it. You can change the angle of a hole so much by teeing up next to the marker. If there's trouble on the right, tee it up right next to the marker so you can angle your shot so your hitting away from the trouble.

mrbluu
7th October 2014, 11:19 PM
Buzz the other thing I forgot to mention is fins a ball unlike a stick with it. You will find the more unuse it the more consistent u will be as u will known how it will react and perform, this in turn will give unmore confidence.

Buzz
7th October 2014, 11:24 PM
Buzz the other thing I forgot to mention is fins a ball unlike a stick with it. You will find the more unuse it the more consistent u will be as u will known how it will react and perform, this in turn will give unmore confidence. Ok now I am really confused !!! Please explain???

Buzz
7th October 2014, 11:26 PM
If you meant play a consistent ball, yep I use Callaway consistently :)

talbo
7th October 2014, 11:33 PM
Buzz the other thing I forgot to mention is find a ball you like and stick with it. You will find the more you use it the more consistent you will be as you will know how it will react and perform, this in turn will give you more confidence.

^English version

jimandr
7th October 2014, 11:40 PM
Buzz the other thing I forgot to mention is fins a ball unlike a stick with it. You will find the more unuse it the more consistent u will be as u will known how it will react and perform, this in turn will give unmore confidence.

I'm hoping for a translation by morning.

EDIT: Talbo has provided it already.

In a way I don't agree. The golf ball is slightly less important for us shorter hitters. Usually we don't spin it as much, so we don't allow for the effect of spin on the ball.

But don't fall into the trap of using a rock because they are alleged to travel further. They don't, or at least they don't for me.

mrbluu
8th October 2014, 05:58 AM
Buzz the other thing I forgot to mention is find a ball u like and stick with it. You will find u will be the more consistent as u will know how it will react and perform, this in turn will give u more confidence.Hopefully this is a little better.

Buzz
8th October 2014, 06:01 AM
:)

Buzz
8th October 2014, 06:02 AM
It's a good topic Bluu. Shorter hitters ... What ball do you recommend?

PeteyD
8th October 2014, 06:09 AM
B330 - RX or RX-s.

mrbluu
8th October 2014, 06:12 AM
It's a good topic Bluu. Shorter hitters ... What ball do you recommend? Regardless of how u hit it doesn't matter as long as u like the feel. If like the spin the ball more on chips then get a softer ball, if u like the chips to run out more get a harder ball. For me a base my choice on feel with the putter first, then how it performs when chipping then how it feels with full shots. If u are consistently shooting over 90 then I would say most of your shots would be from inside 120m, then I would get something that works with.your short game.

AndyP
8th October 2014, 06:36 AM
I refused to change balls for many years because I didn't want to change the feel of chips and putts. That was/is the Precept U-Tri Tour. I am currently using Srixon Z-Stars.

LeftyHoges
8th October 2014, 09:40 AM
What qualifies a person as a short hitter?

Can't hit a driver 200?

Never won a Long Drive trophy?

Curious...

Hatchman
8th October 2014, 09:51 AM
Like the others have said, short game and minimise damage. No penalties.
An extra tip, use the tee box. All of it. You can change the angle of a hole so much by teeing up next to the marker. If there's trouble on the right, tee it up right next to the marker so you can angle your shot so your hitting away from the trouble.

That is only true if you can commit to the swing on the intended aim line.
Have seen so many people tee up like that for better angles only to swing on a path down the middle where they want to finish. This exaggerates their natural/bad miss shape and usually puts them into the very trouble they are trying to avoid.

Hatchman
8th October 2014, 09:52 AM
What qualifies a person as a short hitter?

Can't hit a driver 200?

Never won a Long Drive trophy?

Curious...

I'd say under 200m is a good bench mark.

jimandr
8th October 2014, 09:55 AM
It's a good topic Bluu. Shorter hitters ... What ball do you recommend?

I use Srixon Z Stars and Q Stars, and I honestly cannot tell the difference between the two. I previously used Bridgestone B330's and Precept U Tri's. All these balls are the step below the high-spin premium ball that many people automatically choose because they think they must play the best.

Slower swing speeds don't get the best out of ProV's and particularly ProV1X's, so there is no point spending the extra money they cost.

I'm not expecting the ball to spin a lot, and sometimes I have found ProV's check up on chip shots more than I was expecting. I'll still use a ProV if I find a relatively new one, but I won't buy them.

Balls tailored toward clubhead speed seems to be the latest marketing gimmick. I notice that Callaway are pushing this aspect at the moment. Has anyone tried the variations and verified the claims about which ball is best for a particular clubhead speed?

Dotty
8th October 2014, 01:13 PM
What Jim said.

I need spinny balls to keep it in the air. Currently stocked up on Bridgestone B330 RXS. (Previously used TM Penta TP5 and Lethal). All around my favoured price - $32/dozen.

I recently had a good round with a found Titleist NXT-Tour and looking forward to trying a found Callaway Supersoft. I've got a couple of Prov1 as prizes, which I'll try again soon. ProV1 work for me, but not worth paying the premium price for them.

It all depends what the price is in November, when I buy my next dozen.

Buzz
8th October 2014, 01:46 PM
On phone so will respond to the ball topic later ... But on distance I think it's more about irons than woods. I can hit my driver over 200 but am currently averaging about 195, but my irons are way short. I only hit 8i 100m. That said I need more rounds on game golf to get true averages.

jimandr
8th October 2014, 04:56 PM
What qualifies a person as a short hitter?

Can't hit a driver 200?

Never won a Long Drive trophy?

Curious...

Long drive prizes are easy to win if you are the only person to hit the fairway.

I'd widen the definition slightly, to under about 220, or a driver swing speed under about 95.

Essentially, a shorter hitter is a person who can never reach par 5's in less than 3 shots, even the downhill 450m ones.

We are the people who shouldn't play resort courses from the plates, but from one of the forward tees.

coalesce
8th October 2014, 05:03 PM
By this definition, I'm a short hitter, but everyone I play with tends to hit it around the same. I'm not sure who these mythical long hitters actually are :)

PeteyD
8th October 2014, 05:09 PM
Play some more ozgolf games and you will see some. They are around.

3Puttpete
8th October 2014, 05:17 PM
By this definition, I'm a short hitter, but everyone I play with tends to hit it around the same. I'm not sure who these mythical long hitters actually are :)

I'll see you at champs

Buzz
11th October 2014, 06:51 AM
Although not specifically on topic, a lot of great advice for the shorter hitter here from Corey Pavin:

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/2009-08/10rules_coreypavin

Coldtopper
11th October 2014, 07:12 AM
Long drive prizes are easy to win if you are the only person to hit the fairway.

I'd widen the definition slightly, to under about 220, or a driver swing speed under about 95.

Essentially, a shorter hitter is a person who can never reach par 5's in less than 3 shots, even the downhill 450m ones.

We are the people who shouldn't play resort courses from the plates, but from one of the forward tees. Do all short hitters carry their tees in containers, carry a 9 wood and use a chipper? If I only hit my driver 200 I'd buy a decent driver not some crappy OEM off the rack thingy! Big gains to be had gentlemen!

Buzz
11th October 2014, 07:16 AM
Why the obsession with the Driver CT? It's interesting anytime someone longer comes in, its all about the driver.

I think I've stated before, I'm not unhappy with my driving distance, its probably shorter than average but not radically so. For me its more about the mid-shorter irons.

The more we talk about this topic the more convinced I become to forget distance entirely, accept what I have, and sharpen up short game.

oldracer
11th October 2014, 07:39 AM
Play some more ozgolf games and you will see some. They are around.mmmm what he said

oldracer
11th October 2014, 07:56 AM
Although not specifically on topic, a lot of great advice for the shorter hitter here from Corey Pavin:

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/2009-08/10rules_coreypavin great article Buzz, course management is something us choppers need to learn betterer and specifically spend time on course notes rather than just smash and dash I guess

Coldtopper
11th October 2014, 09:05 AM
Why the obsession with the Driver CT? It's interesting anytime someone longer comes in, its all about the driver.

I think I've stated before, I'm not unhappy with my driving distance, its probably shorter than average but not radically so. For me its more about the mid-shorter irons.

The more we talk about this topic the more convinced I become to forget distance entirely, accept what I have, and sharpen up short game. Maybe I've spent more time than most hitting balls and giving lessons OS and here so I base my opinions on the 1000's of lessons I gave, watching, talking to gofers and listening to the needs of these players. Anyone if fitted with good clubs can gain valuable yardages needed to make the game more enjoyable and for players to improve or maintain consistency. It is just the average Joe doesn't understand or know where to source good clubs and the benefits that using them bring to their game. As the Oz market is so small it is not worthwhile for OEMs to distribute the good gear here.
Unlike most ozgolfers thoughts lessons are good and I still get a few a year btw!
I

Buzz
11th October 2014, 09:08 AM
Maybe I've spent more time than most hitting balls and giving lessons OS and here so I base my opinions on the 1000's of lessons I gave, watching, talking to gofers and listening to the needs of these players. Anyone if fitted with good clubs can gain valuable yardages needed to make the game more enjoyable and for players to improve or maintain consistency. It is just the average Joe doesn't understand or know where to source good clubs and the benefits that using them bring to their game. As the Oz market is so small it is not worthwhile for OEMs to distribute the good gear here.
Unlike most ozgolfers thoughts lessons are good and I still get a few a year btw!
I

Don't get me wrong I wasn't taking a shot, I just meant that generally the long vs short debate always seems to centre on driving, when to me there's a whole lot more to it.

I absolutely agree on fitting good clubs ... as I've said before, in my case my Mizuno JPX EZ's are fitted properly and I totally agree I gained a good club's distance by doing so.

Coldtopper
11th October 2014, 09:47 AM
Don't get me wrong I wasn't taking a shot, I just meant that generally the long vs short debate always seems to centre on driving, when to me there's a whole lot more to it.

I absolutely agree on fitting good clubs ... as I've said before, in my case my Mizuno JPX EZ's are fitted properly and I totally agree I gained a good club's distance by doing so. Mizuno's off the shelf are not good. Anyway give hit a smack on your next round!

simmsy
11th October 2014, 10:44 AM
CT should change his name to
The Generalizer

jimandr
11th October 2014, 11:33 AM
CT should change his name to
The Generalizer

That doesn't mean his advice isn't of value, particularly in regard to the value of lessons.

Next time I generate enough pro-shop credit I'm going to spend it on a lesson.

Coldtopper
11th October 2014, 11:51 AM
CT should change his name to
The Generalizer Heya Simmsy how did the remake of the 'little boy lost go'? Nice to see your post anyway.
There is a reason why golf needs all levels of abilities.

Buzz
11th October 2014, 12:00 PM
That doesn't mean his advice isn't of value, particularly in regard to the value of lessons.

Next time I generate enough pro-shop credit I'm going to spend it on a lesson.

I agree on the lessons, but the point is (at least for me), the lessons I have had really have been aimed (at least in my mind) in improving my technique so I gain distance.

However I think the better approach is to accept the distance and get better at accuracy and short game. Fundamentally its not about whether you hit 6i or 9i but where you put them. Not much point working my butt off aiming to hit 9i 130m if I can hit 6i and be just as accurate.

Lagerlover
11th October 2014, 12:02 PM
I'll see you at champs Haha, trash talking with the driver...interesting.

Shortylook
11th October 2014, 12:09 PM
Heya Simmsy how did the remake of the 'little boy lost go'? Nice to see your post anyway.
There is a reason why golf needs all levels of abilities.
so angry Coldy ha ha. lessons are good, i try and get one every 6-7 weeks. made a big diff to my game. i find i struggle with my second shot if its a wood type for some reason. i have been topping them lately. its a bit of a pain and has cost me 5-6 shots a round the last 3-4 rounds. kind of makes me think i should shelve them for a couple rounds to get the confidence back up. any advice to add mate

talbo
11th October 2014, 12:17 PM
Do all short hitters carry their tees in containers, carry a 9 wood and use a chipper? If I only hit my driver 200 I'd buy a decent driver not some crappy OEM off the rack thingy! Big gains to be had gentlemen!

Are you talking about JDM drivers? Heads and shafts or just heads?

3Puttpete
11th October 2014, 12:18 PM
Haha, trash talking with the driver...interesting.

[emoji3]

They haven't seen me yet and I've been practicing.

I had an off day.
Back's a bit stiff from the flight.
I didn't know the course.

I've just about got those three sorted but will work on some more.

Coldtopper
11th October 2014, 12:53 PM
so angry Coldy ha ha. lessons are good, i try and get one every 6-7 weeks. made a big diff to my game. i find i struggle with my second shot if its a wood type for some reason. i have been topping them lately. its a bit of a pain and has cost me 5-6 shots a round the last 3-4 rounds. kind of makes me think i should shelve them for a couple rounds to get the confidence back up. any advice to add mate
Just offering some advice that I seldom do these days SL. Couldn't care less if anyone listens to it or not. I didn’t write the post as being angry only honest. Lessons and good gear are vital for all who seek improvement or to maintain consistency imo.

AndyP
11th October 2014, 12:59 PM
CT, I can't see a change of equipment gaining me 20m with each club.

Coldtopper
11th October 2014, 01:15 PM
Are you talking about JDM drivers? Heads and shafts or just heads?What ever the best clubs that are suited your game and in your price range. But if you do venture into JDM drivers you will understand what I am banaging on about

Coldtopper
11th October 2014, 01:21 PM
CT, I can't see a change of equipment gaining me 20m with each club. Nice one AP! If you wanted to add boron shafts @ 2 over and pull the loft down then maybe you can add more than 20?
If someone wants to add 20+ on the driver who is using average gear then spend some coin on a decent club, get a lesson and use the correct ball.

Lagerlover
11th October 2014, 01:23 PM
...and fluro gear in or out these days?

oldracer
11th October 2014, 01:24 PM
Nice one AP! If you wanted to add boron shafts @ 2 over and pull the loft down then maybe you can add more than 20?
If someone wants to add 20+ on the driver who is using average gear then spend some coin on a decent club, get a lesson and use the correct ball. just spent a bit on a BB6 for my driver and "found" 15-20m plus better control....some of the time :)

AndyP
11th October 2014, 01:25 PM
You need to define "average gear" because I don't know whether you would classify what I use as "average". I also believed that it was the shaft that made a significant difference to distance, not the head.

Coldtopper
11th October 2014, 01:30 PM
...and fluro gear in or out these days? Thank you LL no fluro it is dead and buried. Only good for the tee's in containers afternoon back hole starters. Please refrain from brining this up again and thank you in advance for your cooperation with this matter.
What are you doing in a short hitters thread? Next Rubin will appear!

jimandr
11th October 2014, 01:34 PM
CT, I can't see a change of equipment gaining me 20m with each club.

Wash your keyboard out AP!!!

The whole reason why the equipment subforum exists (and perhaps the forum itself) is that golfers believe there is a magic wand out there somewhere that will give them the extra distance they think they need.

Even if there isn't one, the search for one is clearly a source of enjoyment for many forum members.

I suspect some of us can get 10 or 15 maybe, and many of us can get 10 or 15 through improved technique.

The sad thing from the point of view of this thread is that higher swing speeds can probably gain more than we do.

Coldtopper
11th October 2014, 01:37 PM
You need to define "average gear" because I don't know whether you would classify what I use as "average". I also believed that it was the shaft that made a significant difference to distance, not the head.
Most mass produced gear is of average quality. I once tendered to believe your statement I but I now seen massive distance changes using the same shaft in different heads. All the users of JDM and pro issued Tour gear cant be wrong.

Coldtopper
11th October 2014, 01:41 PM
Wash your keyboard out AP!!!

The sad thing from the point of view of this thread is that higher swing speeds can probably gain more than we do. So true an observation. There is a magic wond its just most dont have the coin to pay for it. I recently hit a non conforming JDM PRGR head and found I was getting 20+ carry on the driver. Felt so gooooood

PeteyD
11th October 2014, 01:46 PM
Non conforming don't count though.

Coldtopper
11th October 2014, 01:52 PM
Non conforming don't count though. Oh nice to hit anyway! Was thinking about getting one as only you will know PD! While you are here PD what is the reason you use JDM drivers? And yoiu are not a short hitter I hear.

Dotty
11th October 2014, 01:55 PM
JDM drivers are designed for range rats, that want to brag that they cleared the back fence.
OEM drivers are designed for overweight, slow-swinging golfers to keep them out of the trees.
The driving distance difference between a clubhead speed of 120mph and 80mph is not due to country that made the clubhead.

Same as Lamborghini, Bugatti and Ferrari are not the best cars to transport a family of five.

Coldtopper
11th October 2014, 02:01 PM
JDM drivers are designed for range rats, that want to brag that they cleared the back fence.
OEM drivers are designed for overweight, slow-swinging golfers to keep them out of the trees.
The driving distance difference between a clubhead speed of 120mph and 80mph is not due to country that made the clubhead.

Same as Lamborghini, Bugatti and Ferrari are not the best cars to transport a family of five. Most of the guys I have seen using JDM look like this guy. 32639

Shortylook
11th October 2014, 02:09 PM
Just offering some advice that I seldom do these days SL. Couldn't care less if anyone listens to it or not. I didn’t write the post as being angry only honest. Lessons and good gear are vital for all who seek improvement or to maintain consistency imo.
ok mate, wasnt trying to stir you up

PeteyD
11th October 2014, 07:56 PM
Oh nice to hit anyway! Was thinking about getting one as only you will know PD! While you are here PD what is the reason you use JDM drivers? And yoiu are not a short hitter I hear.

I am definitely a short hitter. Not using much JDM at the moment, but I like to keep changing and trying different clubs. If I could afford a D1 I would be very keen on it!

Buzz
11th October 2014, 08:02 PM
I posted in the what did you score thread but I wanted to provide some more detail here.

So I had a non-comp round in preparation for the Pacific Golfer 4BBB. Armed with a new mindset based on some of the discussion here, I really focused on slowing my swing down, taking an extra club, playing to a plan and most of all, definitely not trying to hit the ball for distance.

Result was 89 off the stick, first time I have broken 90 in a very long time. Ball striking was not perfect but waaaay better, and if anything I noticed no distance loss and probably some improvement - although I think partially that is due to the extra roll on the fairways. I felt like I putted ok but definitely room for improvement.

Suddenly 85 doesn't seem light years away. I know it's one round, but amazing what a changed mindset can do.

Wardy101
11th October 2014, 08:33 PM
Great work Buzz. Have been following this thread with interest as whilst I hit a reasonable drive it is the irons that I see less distance on compared to others

The taking an extra club and having a plan are two things going to try and put into practice next round. Working on my putting seemed to have helped a lot last time round with minimal three putts

mrbluu
11th October 2014, 09:16 PM
I posted in the what did you score thread but I wanted to provide some more detail here.

So I had a non-comp round in preparation for the Pacific Golfer 4BBB. Armed with a new mindset based on some of the discussion here, I really focused on slowing my swing down, taking an extra club, playing to a plan and most of all, definitely not trying to hit the ball for distance.

Result was 89 off the stick, first time I have broken 90 in a very long time. Ball striking was not perfect but waaaay better, and if anything I noticed no distance loss and probably some improvement - although I think partially that is due to the extra roll on the fairways. I felt like I putted ok but definitely room for improvement.

Suddenly 85 doesn't seem light years away. I know it's one round, but amazing what a changed mindset can do.

I think u can drop the extra 4 shots with just course management. Good luck brother!!!

Buzz
11th October 2014, 09:30 PM
Thanks gentlemen. I think my course management was reasonable today but really its all about nailing those shots inside 100m, and especially inside 50m. It's interesting but not surprising that since I hit the ball better my GIR was up but so were my putts becuase I wasn't close enough. Handicap GIR though was 13/18.

jimandr
11th October 2014, 11:14 PM
I am definitely a short hitter. Not using much JDM at the moment, but I like to keep changing and trying different clubs. If I could afford a D1 I would be very keen on it!

Really?

At the moment it is just you and me at Colonial on Champs Friday. Do they have a range? If so, can I have a hit of your JDM stuff just to see if there is a difference that can be noticed. Should be fun anyway. Are we allowed to have a first ever Ozgolf Shorter Hitters Challenge?

Shortylook
11th October 2014, 11:45 PM
M
I posted in the what did you score thread but I wanted to provide some more detail here.

So I had a non-comp round in preparation for the Pacific Golfer 4BBB. Armed with a new mindset based on some of the discussion here, I really focused on slowing my swing down, taking an extra club, playing to a plan and most of all, definitely not trying to hit the ball for distance.

Result was 89 off the stick, first time I have broken 90 in a very long time. Ball striking was not perfect but waaaay better, and if anything I noticed no distance loss and probably some improvement - although I think partially that is due to the extra roll on the fairways. I felt like I putted ok but definitely room for improvement.

Suddenly 85 doesn't seem light years away. I know it's one round, but amazing what a changed mindset can do.
Mate are you sure you havnt been reading my mind for the last couple of rounds. While I was 2 shots away from breaking 90, I have felt I'm very close to it. I hope I can get back to that sort of golf like I had been about a month before. I guess that's why I love this game, you play well for 2 weeks then you fail for a couple. You will,never completly defeat the game. Viva la flog

PeteyD
12th October 2014, 06:47 AM
Really?

At the moment it is just you and me at Colonial on Champs Friday. Do they have a range? If so, can I have a hit of your JDM stuff just to see if there is a difference that can be noticed. Should be fun anyway. Are we allowed to have a first ever Ozgolf Shorter Hitters Challenge?

Dunno Jim, never played Colonial. If they do I will chuck in the Callaway Aero you can have a hit of.

Daves
12th October 2014, 07:52 AM
Colonial does have a driving range.

http://palmergolf.com.au/colonial/scorecard-with-hints/

IanO
15th October 2014, 01:05 AM
What ever the best clubs that are suited your game and in your price range. But if you do venture into JDM drivers you will understand what I am banaging on about

CT - you have me convinced. I have had my irons fitted and just bought the matching woods. I will have to get a proper driver fitting done when I get back to Australia I am currently on assignment in the Czech Republic and the professionals here don't speak much English and clubs are poison in price.

I am looking to improve my accuracy not distance (but would not be unhappy to pick up a few metres)

TheNuclearOne
12th November 2014, 10:44 AM
But if you do venture into JDM drivers you will understand what I am banaging on about

Are they really as good as you say CT? You've convinced me on a Yammy to try for fun and i've also got a cheap PRGR Tour hollering.

PeteyD
12th November 2014, 03:41 PM
Pretty much. I keep going back after trying the latest and greatest

Coldtopper
12th November 2014, 07:52 PM
Are they really as good as you say CT? You've convinced me on a Yammy to try for fun and i've also got a cheap PRGR Tour hollering. Ask Chappy and Spanner they had one look then purchased! I haven't seen another modern driver that works the ball both ways with as much ease and long. You just dont want to miss that many.

talbo
14th November 2014, 07:47 AM
Any particular model(s) Yamaha or other JDM drivers to look for?

Buzz
29th November 2014, 05:57 PM
Also mods: please move to the Academy if that is more appropriate!

At the risk of quoting myself ... can I please request a mod move this to the Academy, it will get buried in this forum.

coalesce
29th November 2014, 06:16 PM
Done

Buzz
29th November 2014, 06:39 PM
Thank you sir

Goldy
1st December 2014, 08:27 AM
My God...this thread was made with me in mind. Thanks Buzz.

I'm a 180ish off the tee kinda guy...can get out to 200m with a 3 club assisting wind...

I'm off 15.9, have a best score of 86. two sub 90s in the last week and a half.

The secret to scoring when you can't hit it a long way...at least keep it in play. And you'd better have a short game..around the green, not just off the tee.

aym
2nd December 2014, 11:51 AM
The secret to scoring when you can't hit it a long way...at least keep it in play. And you'd better have a short game..around the green, not just off the tee.

The difference for me between hitting fairway off the Tee and missing it is about 15 shots .. but not sure if short game is as helpful as having a accurate long game for short hitters like us..

mrbluu
2nd December 2014, 12:05 PM
The difference for me between hitting fairway off the Tee and missing it is about 15 shots .. but not sure if short game is as helpful as having a accurate long game for short hitters like us..

As Virge said something long these lines, a good long game will help you go low and a good short game will save your rounds!!!

Regardless, if you don't have a good short game you will struggle to score!!!

AusOdy
2nd December 2014, 01:32 PM
what happens to me being a short hitter with bad short game? should i quit?

Dotty
2nd December 2014, 01:38 PM
what happens to me being a short hitter with bad short game? should i quit?
Get some many witty one liners.

mrbluu
2nd December 2014, 01:50 PM
what happens to me being a short hitter with bad short game? should i quit?
You just need to learn to play the game!!!

jimandr
2nd December 2014, 04:32 PM
what happens to me being a short hitter with bad short game? should i quit?

You either wait until your handicap blows out to compensate for your faults or you do what most high handicappers do. Every now and again you'll have a round where you didn't need your dodgy short game, you shoot 45 points, and the low handicappers on this forum go berserk.

The slightly more serious answer is that most short game faults can either be fixed, or at worst minimised. Course management helps too. If you know you can't get out of bunkers, do what you can to avoid them, even if it means laying up, or ignoring where the flag is. Coldtopper would hate this advice, but the putter from off the green is your friend if you struggle from 10 metres out.

Peppas
2nd December 2014, 04:35 PM
Hello

Goldy
4th December 2014, 09:08 PM
Hey Pepps.

Lost many balls this week...and what the hell are you doing in here?

damoocow
11th December 2014, 10:41 AM
Not long after the champs I reassessed my game. I went back to my old 16 degree Sumo driver, bought some lady balls, and elected to play safe/smart on every hole on my home course that I usually play badly [ and that includes par 3's] I felt a bit wussy at first but the results were significant for me. It's not all lay ups but I identified the places where I normally drop shots and play smarter. I think the lady balls suit my swing and for some reason they are straighter and a bit longer than balls I used to play. For the record my h/cap is 16 they are the Fantom Lady Tour balls.

benno_r
11th December 2014, 10:45 AM
The FTL's get a great rap from a number of people I know.

AusOdy
11th December 2014, 03:29 PM
ok sounds strange i know but let's chase from some lady balls and see....

matty
11th December 2014, 04:59 PM
Mrbluu, the short hitter thread referred to distance, not height. You don't belong in here ;)

Buzz
11th December 2014, 05:36 PM
I tried the Bridgestone RX-330's last week ... really liked em.

Pity I put three in the drink, but hard to blame the ball for that :)

Buzz
31st December 2014, 07:57 AM
What Jim said.

I need spinny balls to keep it in the air. Currently stocked up on Bridgestone B330 RXS. (Previously used TM Penta TP5 and Lethal). All around my favoured price - $32/dozen.

I recently had a good round with a found Titleist NXT-Tour and looking forward to trying a found Callaway Supersoft. I've got a couple of Prov1 as prizes, which I'll try again soon. ProV1 work for me, but not worth paying the premium price for them.

It all depends what the price is in November, when I buy my next dozen.

I'm looking to buy some B330s, but golfbox has them at $49 a dozen. Also is there much difference between the RX and RXS?

mrbluu
31st December 2014, 08:04 AM
I'm looking to buy some B330s, but golfbox has them at $49 a dozen. Also is there much difference between the RX and RXS?
Not sure but try gco. They have the older models more much cheaper than that.

Buzz
31st December 2014, 08:05 AM
I have a voucher for golfbox

Daves
31st December 2014, 08:14 AM
Have you tried the Z Stars? Way better value at the moment, 3 doz for less than $80. I have used both and there isn't any great difference imo. Z stars spin a bit more, if that is a problem get the VX model.

yoyo
31st December 2014, 08:18 AM
The RXS are slightly softer in the outer casing.

Hatchman
31st December 2014, 08:24 AM
Hey Pepps.

Lost many balls this week...and what the hell are you doing in here?

He's in here looking for his ball :razz:, it could be in a tree thou?

G.K
31st December 2014, 08:30 AM
Have you tried the Z Stars? Way better value at the moment, 3 doz for less than $80. I have used both and there isn't any great difference imo. Z stars spin a bit more, if that is a problem get the VX model.

+1

I was using the B330RX for quite a while and wanted to try something else comparable but a bit easier on the hip pocket. Been using the Z Stars for about 6-9 months now since Golfbox started having the 3 doz for $79 special on them and haven't looked back. Great ball for the money.

Peppas
31st December 2014, 08:56 AM
He's in here looking for his ball :razz:, it could be in a tree thou?

Its happened a few times... this is why i avoid courses with trees!

Buzz
31st December 2014, 09:21 AM
+1

I was using the B330RX for quite a while and wanted to try something else comparable but a bit easier on the hip pocket. Been using the Z Stars for about 6-9 months now since Golfbox started having the 3 doz for $79 special on them and haven't looked back. Great ball for the money.

I can try some tomorrow, Z not Q for slower swing speeds?

razaar
31st December 2014, 09:38 AM
This thread should be in the equip me section.:wink:

G.K
31st December 2014, 10:41 AM
I can try some tomorrow, Z not Q for slower swing speeds?

I'm playing the Z and I wouldn't consider my swing speed to be fast although I don't have any actual figures to back that up. The Z seems to play with similar characteristics and feel to what the B330RX did for me. Q is what Srixon market as their slower swing speed ball but personally, I find them like rocks. Totally different feel to the Z star. Maybe try both and see which you prefer.

Ned
8th February 2015, 08:35 AM
Bumping this for Lefty's yesterday effort in being out driven by Oldracer and me today for making up the numbers in the Gorilla Group.

oldracer
9th February 2015, 02:45 PM
Bumping this for Lefty's yesterday effort in being out driven by Oldracer and me today for making up the numbers in the Gorilla Group.marvelous things happen when you hit a sprinkler head