Navara vs BT-50 vs HiLux vs Triton vs D-Max vs Colorado vs Ranger

[live4golf]

We are looking at getting one of these. Any opinions, bad or good, for any of these?

Went looking today and was fairly impressed with them.

Looking for comments on drive comfort, cost of running, reliability.

Also, any ideas on a canopy? Worth just getting one from the dealer or a 3rd party?

Thanks in advance.

[rubin]

I currently own the BT50, and IMO - its the best of the bunch.

Having said that, it will depend on whether you want to go current crop or previous models, as mine was bought from the showroom floor.

I tested all of those (and the Ranger), and FWIW have the following to say:
Hilux - Great for what it is, but there is better to be had. I've been told by a number of people the new model due mid/late next year will be a brand new machine rather than a minor difference, and may likely have the V8 cruiser engine as an option. will also have the 3.5t tow pack.

Triton - as a workhorse goes, it would be great. if it will be a daily, spend the little bit more and get one of the others. Harsh ride, and limited towing capacity as well.

D-Max/Colorado - They (like the BT and Ranger) are the same thing with a different shell. Both pull like crazy, and the Colorado looks very noice on the road, has all ht efruit to go with it. For me, i just couldn't get past seeing one leave its rear end in the lake a few years ago trying to pull a boat out.

Ranger/BT-50 - I've got the BT50 GT, and the only issue i have, is i wish it a reversing camera. Pulls like a trojan, great on fuel, and very comfortable to drive. I had it down to the between the Ranger and the GT, and couldn't justify the extra 10k for the Ranger when it was the same thing as the GT. I was looking for a big 4x4 with a bit more cargo room, so this fit the bill.

Taking price out of it, Colorado, BT50 or Ranger are my picks, but it depends on what you want it for as well.

For the Canopy, everywhere i have read says the new trek model, or ARB. the factory ones are good, but those are better.

and too add something else to it, consider the 3" exhaust as well if you go the diesel. Everyone I've spoken to says the same thing, and that that you gain massively on fuel consumption. Mine went from avg of 10.5 per 100, to 8.2 per 100

[grandmasterb]

I went through the same process 6 months ago but ended up buying a Ranger as it was the best all around vehicle out of all of them. I had a BT50 and loved it but the local Mazda dealer (and probably the rest of Oz) shoot themselves in the foot with no fixed priced servicing (shorter service intervals) and a small fortune for genuine accessories when they shared a platform with Ford.

Navara avoid like the plague as they can have mechanical issues once they get up in K's thanks to timing chain failures.

Hilux are overpriced and waaaaaaaaaaaay overrated IMO and for a 3.0L turbo diesel they are gutless!!!

D-Max are a great vehicle but not in the base models and the price tag starts to get up there very quickly much like the Amarok. Amarok are a great vehicle but I'd feel guilty with the amount of towing I do with that little 2.0L so wasn't for me. Add the servicing costs and the fact its a VW and parts/accessories are just crazy expensive I didn't even consider one.

Triton are a great "budget" vehicle with a few nifty little things like the power rear cab window but again didn't pack enough punch in the towing department and doesn't have that overall finish like the Ford/Mazda or VW.

When the sales team at Holden tell you to not buy a Colorado as its not a patch on what else is out there I didn't even bother taking it for a test drive haha

It really comes down to what your budget is, what the vehicle is going to be used for and if you are happy with the driving position/comfort. What ever you do I suggest trying to get one over a weekend and use it as you would your normal car to see how it suits your lifestyle and driving habits.

As for a canopy or accessories you can always get a good deal on them when purchasing a new vehicle but your better off holding off until you have the money for them rather than adding it to the total price if your financing the vehicle as there is no point paying extra interest (remember these accessories start to add up) over the term of the loan (3-5 years)

I can't fault my Ranger other than the silly way the bluetooth recognises surnames first in your phone book when using the phone to make a call:?

[WBennett]

Look ex-fleet and Ex -Govt - see here for an example of one in Canberra fixed price.

I have bought three ex-Gov vehicles. One was cursed (until the wife rolled it 5 times and it finally died), but the other two were great.

http://www.pickles.com.au/cars/item/-/details/CP-04-11--Built-03-11--Ford--Ranger--PK-XL-Crew-Cab--Utility-Dual-Cab--5-Seats--4-Doors/402214369

[WBennett]

Tritons are now 8 or so years old, so the NVH is higher than more modern Rangers and Mazdas. Stay away from the Volksy Amarok - two mates have bad ownership experiences with them. Two mates have the Isuzu's, but both are tradies so they are work utes primarily, and neither bloke has kids. Both have good things to say about them.

The question is - Do you want a work ute, a comfy ute, a 'cheap to run' ute?

Do you need 4 doors/seats or could you get away with less?

[grandmasterb]

Stay away from a 3" exhaust and spend the money on fitting a Steinbauer unit instead you won't regret it ;)

[rubin]

Careful with the steibauer. I know of two instances where they have caused a pump to go fairly quickly.

[live4golf]

Thanks for the replies guys, I added Ranger to the title...thanks Rubes :)

It is primarily going to be used as the wife's primary car. Dog shows, some camping...so comfort is important. 4 doors is not critical, but we do need 4 seats. Any of the 'king cab' a good option?

Ranger is not on the RADAR due to some negative feedback from a friend of my wife's who works at a council who have had nothing but trouble with their fleet. Amarok is just too expensive, Hilux is the same.

The BT-50, Navara, D-Max and Colorado all seemed OK, I liked the look of the BT-50 and Navara

[rqrox]

I don't like any of them and own one!
If I had my way I'd get some massive Chev or Ford from the US! but...if you have to, I bought the Hilux because ( for me) it was the most comfortable and lets be honest none of the offerings are going to win a drag race with a Prius!!
Get a canopy straight off the bat as I wish I had and they're much more practical than the hard cover I ended up getting.

[grandmasterb]

Careful with the steibauer. I know of two instances where they have caused a pump to go fairly quickly.

Then they weren't installed correctly or weren't a genuine item as they don't change rail pressure or fuel pressure, only injection duration.

Besides they come with a 3 year warranty if supplied/installed by an authorised dealer. I've run one on my previous 2 vehicles as well as my current Ranger (for more than 6 months) and NEVER had a problem.

[Dazza]

Had an SR Extra Cab 4x4 Hilux for 2 years now for work. It's travelled on some of the roughest dirt roads across NQ, and so far I've had no major issues. Usual throw out bearing noise fixed under warranty, other than taut nothing else! Certainly not the newest technology getting around (even 2 years ago when new) , but still a big improvement over the Slo-deo I used to drive.

[grandmasterb]

Thanks for the replies guys, I added Ranger to the title...thanks Rubes :)

It is primarily going to be used as the wife's primary car. Dog shows, some camping...so comfort is important. 4 doors is not critical, but we do need 4 seats. Any of the 'king cab' a good option?

Ranger is not on the RADAR due to some negative feedback from a friend of my wife's who works at a council who have had nothing but trouble with their fleet. Amarok is just too expensive, Hilux is the same.

The BT-50, Navara, D-Max and Colorado all seemed OK, I liked the look of the BT-50 and Navara

Id nearly bet my life that the "fleet" is the 2.2L variety XL's which were rushed out of the factory to meet demands after the Tsunami.

Oh and a little FYI if anyone disregards the Ford but is still keen on the BT50 (3.2L variety) just remember that Mazda are using Ford drive line this time ;)

[backintheswing]

I have the latest model d max 3lt turbo diesel. I have had it 14 months and it just clicked over 48k on outback roads with a lot on dirt. I can't fault it. I previously had a triton ute on hire for 4 months and before that a hilux for 2 years. They were both rough as guts compared to the d max.

[mike]

Be careful with the Steinbauer. Fitting any chip like this voids your drivetrain warranty.

[spanner039]

Running the d-max at the moment 140,000 hard towing Kms in 18 months - will be grabbing another at the end of the year she's a work truck. But the new version looks ok a lot quieter and I think cheaper than most

Pretty impressed with everyone's responses all spot on - avoid the Navara trust me not good

I like the rangers though - they look the biz

[WBennett]

Who chips a ute?

[grandmasterb]

Be careful with the Steinbauer. Fitting any chip like this voids your drivetrain warranty.

NO it doesn't, as I said in a previous post I've had them fitted to my last 3 vehicles and all havestill been covered under warranty (to the point the service manager now runs one on his Wildtrak) so who ever told you that is full of it. Its a plug & play module with no modifications to wiring harness required nor does it override the stock ECU.


Who chips a ute?

People that want better fuel economy, better torque/HP whilst towing and being able to have the option at a flick of a switch is a great luxury I can tell you.

[spanner039]

Who chips a ute?

I'd much prefer to sink my cash into nudie mudflaps, Bundy bear, RM Williams and conargo pub stickers.

[mike]

NO it doesn't, ... so who ever told you that is full of it.I work for Mazda and I know installing a chip voids all drivetrain warranty, but hell, what would I know.

[grandmasterb]

I work for Mazda and I know installing a chip voids all drivetrain warranty, but hell, what would I know.

About as much as I do when I worked for FORD, these units are not "chips" as you say and are invisible to the stock ECU. Both my Mazda's were previously fitted and my local dealer was aware of this (no troubles with warranty) my truck is fitted and no issues with warranty and my 2013 Ranger is fitted and no issue with warranty from my local dealer and as previously mentioned the service manager was so impressed that he went out and fitted one to his Wildtrak as well!!!


Nothing can "void" factory warranty just by fitting it, you need a problem to happen first and it needs to have happened because of the aftermarket product so if your dealership is happy to fit things like dual battery systems, bull/nudge bars, larger exhausts but won't allow something like a Steinbauer or DPChip unit (which are installed after the ECU and maintain all factory wiring) without putting it in writing you have one hell of a legal issue on your hands and you will find like 99.99% of ALL dealerships that have been presented with this info after initial inquires (if the customer is smart enough to ask) that they are not illegal and wont void warranty!!!

In the event a manufacture will not meet their new vehicle warranty obligations because of the fitting of a module like Steinbaurer/DPChip etc the customer must obtain from the vehicle manufacturer a written report stating the details of the vehicle problem and that the "module" was the case of the problem and how it has caused the problem which is NEVER going to happen nor can it be proven because the way (some) are engineered to work and installed.

I could fit one to a car and then take it to a dealer for servicing and they would have absolutely no idea that it is even fitted or if its on or off and it will never appear on a scan tool diagnostic check.

Not trying to be a smart arse just simply state the facts that I have researched prior/after working for a dealership myself and having fitted these types of units to 4 different vehicles all with dealership awareness and not 1 of them would issue me a letter stating it would void any warranty after being presented with the info (obviously in great detail) that I have just written!!!

[rubin]

NO it doesn't, as I said in a previous post I've had them fitted to my last 3 vehicles and all havestill been covered under warranty (to the point the service manager now runs one on his Wildtrak) so who ever told you that is full of it. Its a plug & play module with no modifications to wiring harness required nor does it override the stock ECU.



People that want better fuel economy, better torque/HP whilst towing and being able to have the option at a flick of a switch is a great luxury I can tell you.

Sorry mate. Your wrong on that. It voids your warranty AND your insurance. Like just about every 'chip' on the market.

[grandmasterb]

Sorry mate. Your wrong on that. It voids your warranty AND your insurance. Like just about every 'chip' on the market.

I'm wrong when you can get a dealer to prove it in writing cobber, as I said its the only way its going to void your warranty and even then they HAVE to prove it was that "item" that caused the damage in the first place!!!

[grandmasterb]

Id have to double check as its been 9 months since I last spoke with them but the guys at DPChip offer a full engine/drive train warranty on all new vehicles that have been fitted with one of their modules "if" it can be proved by the dealer that the problem was caused because of their unit. They also deal with a couple of insurance companies (I can't remember off the top of my head which ones they were) that have also stated that insurance is not "void" if fitting one of their units.

Again I'll double check this on Monday and follow up as I did all the research years ago when I purchased my first BT50 and let you know ;)

[TheNuclearOne]

Chips will void warranty on the engine, transmission, driveline, DPFs and ecu i believe.

DPChip take on the manufacturer for you under certain circumstances. Trouble is how long might you be without a car while all this goes in, how much time and paperwork might be involved etc.

GUARANTEES AND WARRANTIES | DPChip

New Vehicle Engine and Driveline ‘Express Warranty’:
DPChip offers to warrant damage caused to a vehicle during its New Vehicle Warranty period. DPChip will only support its New Vehicle Engine and Driveline Warranty on legitimate claims where the DPChip is the ‘proven’ cause of the problem. If a manufacturer chooses not meet their express or Government implied warranty obligations due to fitment of the DPChip System, then DPChip must be contacted. If the claim is legitimate and proven, then DPChip will authorise repairs. The Engine and Driveline is ‘defined’ as ‘Engine and Transmission Components’ excluding any attached ancillaries which may or may not be mounted on same. This warranty is limited by the same factors and conditions which apply to the Original Vehicle Manufacturers warranty statement.
To initiate the ‘New Vehicle Engine and Driveline ‘Express Warranty” process, we require these steps to be taken

[rubin]

Id have to double check as its been 9 months since I last spoke with them but the guys at DPChip offer a full engine/drive train warranty on all new vehicles that have been fitted with one of their modules "if" it can be proved by the dealer that the problem was caused because of their unit. They also deal with a couple of insurance companies (I can't remember off the top of my head which ones they were) that have also stated that insurance is not "void" if fitting one of their units.

Again I'll double check this on Monday and follow up as I did all the research years ago when I purchased my first BT50 and let you know ;)

U do that.

I can also tell you with absolute certainty, if you have an incident and it's found that your vehicle has been 'chipped' (to use it broadly) your policy WILL NOT respond.

There are a number of reasons, but thems the rules. If you want to trust a competitive backyard company against an international giant with centuries of experience - go right ahead.

How do I know this?
I'm an insurance broker in the first, secondly it's condition 1 in 99% of policy wordings, and condition 2 in the rest.

[live4golf]

Rubin, when you say a 3 inch exhaust for a diesel, is that a factory or after-market option? I am definitely not going to chip it...good discussion though :)

I liked the look of the Navara very much...especially the new Titanium one. The talk of issues is a concern.

[benno_r]

Everyone seems to bag the Navara's but there are 3 within my family that are going strong.

The longest owned is my mum's (the one 3pp destroyed on the drive back from Coffs Harbour). It has around 200k on the clock, and the biggest issue has been some adjustment required to the clutch @ 180k.

Mine has 40k on it and it has been rock solid. The other one has about 80k, and same - no issues.

Mine is the extra cab. Useless for carrying more than 2 people, and only enough room for 2 golf bags in the cab. If I had my time again, I would have got a dual cab with a Canopy.

[dannycallaz]

Got 80k on the clock of my Navara ST dual cab 2011. Been great for work and the odd long trip. Big set of tool boxes on the back and lugs around a trailer full of everything for the business's day in and day out, no dramas. Would definitely buy another. Great options as well and way cheaper than hilux.

[3Puttpete]

Everyone seems to bag the Navara's but there are 3 within my family that are going strong.

The longest owned is my mum's (the one 3pp destroyed on the drive back from Coffs Harbour). It has around 200k on the clock, and the biggest issue has been some adjustment required to the clutch @ 180k.

Mine has 40k on it and it has been rock solid. The other one has about 80k, and same - no issues.

Mine is the extra cab. Useless for carrying more than 2 people, and only enough room for 2 golf bags in the cab. If I had my time again, I would have got a dual cab with a Canopy.

Can't comment on the rest of it but the interior seems rugged enough

[TheNuclearOne]

Everyone seems to bag the Navara's but there are 3 within my family that are going strong.

The longest owned is my mum's (the one 3pp destroyed on the drive back from Coffs Harbour). It has around 200k on the clock, and the biggest issue has been some adjustment required to the clutch @ 180k.

Mine has 40k on it and it has been rock solid. The other one has about 80k, and same - no issues.

Mine is the extra cab. Useless for carrying more than 2 people, and only enough room for 2 golf bags in the cab. If I had my time again, I would have got a dual cab with a Canopy.

I bought a D22 STR Outlaw pack dual cab a few months ago. I did a bit of research per all these perceived drama's and came to the conclusion the legend has grown bigger than the actual problem. Time will tell but i've got a sizable warranty.

My pack included bullbar, toebar, spotties, tub liner, tonneau cover, mats and goodness knows what else. 6 year warranty, capped services etc. An equivalently packed out Hilux/Ranger/BT50 would have cost be about $25000 more from memory, basically double the price. Extra's inside my cab are very thin, but i didn't need them anyway. The D22 STR with bullbar, toebar, mats and tonneau was going for $28000 drive away a couple of months ago.

No real k's to comment on but the mate has the same model with 80 000k on it and has only had one small problem. They do blow a fair bit of black smoke and are somewhat weak off the mark low down but mine has plenty of sting up higher. Economy is quite good as long as you aren't heavy on the foot.

[benno_r]

You're right, probably the only overall downside is the black smoke on take-off, and less power down low than I would have liked.

I went the D40 simply for the extra size. If that didn't matter, the D22 is the best value buying by far.

As far as ecomony goes, I was getting about 9.2l/100km which was driving between Maryborough and Gladstone, and around town in both. I am a little bit of a leadfoot in it though.

[Daves]

The Navara "legend" probably owes much to the previous model(s). A mate had a Navara (3.0l TD) for a few years and he and I thought it was pretty ordinary. Yours seemed much more civilized to ride in Benno. Well at least until The Spleen started doing his stuff in the back!

[rubin]

Rubin, when you say a 3 inch exhaust for a diesel, is that a factory or after-market option? I am definitely not going to chip it...good discussion though :)

I liked the look of the Navara very much...especially the new Titanium one. The talk of issues is a concern.

It's an aftermarket option and well worth IMO. The gains u get are noticeable instantly and it makes a massive difference on turbo lag by almost completely removing it.

King brown stainless, torqit and the like to a great job, but you do need to make sure you get the right one, so it's worth doe ins the extra and making sure. Some of the new model utes have DPF's or other filters etc, and if you bolt on one that's not similar, you'll have a world of trouble.

[Daves]

But wouldn't an after market exhaust system void warranty and insurance as well?

[rubin]

But wouldn't an after market exhaust system void warranty and insurance as well?

To put it simply, As long as by doing it, you don't change the emissions level, it's fine.

[spanner039]

I found the navaras are fine unless you want to tow

Went through two in 6 months the older one was bad really bad 2 x engines and one transmission at 80'0000. Went to the 550 did trans again @ 20'000 and chronic over heating. Its now the shop car in that role is ok.

Would be fine to putt around or lug a normal trailer any more and bang

[Daves]

To put it simply, As long as by doing it, you don't change the emissions level, it's fine.

But almost surely you will, and for the worse. And there is also the noise issue. And surely you would have to disclose it (the non standard exhaust) to your insurer, or face the possibility of it being voided? Would also be interested in what Manufacturers' position is on them?

In Qld, the DMR is cracking down on non standard exhausts, and roadside testing is being carried out. Currently aimed at the "Hoon" element, but the testing regime is being ramped up.

There are insurers that will insure modified cars, including chipped ones, as long as it is disclosed. As to the Manufacturers, it would be interesting to see how they went in court, because a (growing) number actually sell models where the only real difference is the more powerful one(s) have been chipped. Fords new 351 FPV is purely a chipped exercise, nothing else in the motor has been altered at all.

[Lagerlover]

Can't comment on the rest of it but the interior seems rugged enough

I found the sound system pretty ordinary... No idea what half that shit was getting played on the way home.

Maybe it was because I was in a state of semi consciousness. Now I know how Payne Stewart must have felt.

[rubin]

But almost surely you will, and for the worse. And there is also the noise issue. And surely you would have to disclose it (the non standard exhaust) to your insurer, or face the possibility of it being voided? Would also be interested in what Manufacturers' position is on them?

In Qld, the DMR is cracking down on non standard exhausts, and roadside testing is being carried out. Currently aimed at the "Hoon" element, but the testing regime is being ramped up.

There are insurers that will insure modified cars, including chipped ones, as long as it is disclosed. As to the Manufacturers, it would be interesting to see how they went in court, because a (growing) number actually sell models where the only real difference is the more powerful one(s) have been chipped. Fords new 351 FPV is purely a chipped exercise, nothing else in the motor has been altered at all.

The emissions level wont change, if you change it like for like. I.e, the Amarok has a 2 stage DPF (from memory), if the exhaust you bolt on has a 2 stage DPF that is the same, then your emissions level won't change, and by freeing up the engine and allowing to breath a bit better, you are actually reducing your emissions level due to using less fuel to attain the same output.

Secondly, it has been tested (at least with Mazda i know it has) and the CCC came back to them and said that unless you can prove 'categorically' that the exhaust modification caused the issue, Mazda are liable in terms of warranty. this also applies to other manufacturers.

Thirdly, provided that you are not altering the structural inetgrity of the vehicle, you do not have a duty to disclose the upgraded exhaust. you would only do so if you wish to insure it in addition to the cost of the vehicle.

Finally, the testing in QLD is based on noise tests, or decibal measurements primarily to deter 'hoons' in the 'hotted up commodore's'. Whilst adding a 3" to a diesel will increase the noise level slightly, it is still below the regulatory levels, and the aus guidelines, and so there would be no issue.

at the end of the day, if you dont want to do it, or you believe there is a risk - don't do it.

[Daves]

The emissions level wont change, if you change it like for like. I.e, the Amarok has a 2 stage DPF (from memory), if the exhaust you bolt on has a 2 stage DPF that is the same, then your emissions level won't change, and by freeing up the engine and allowing to breath a bit better, you are actually reducing your emissions level due to using less fuel to attain the same output.

Secondly, it has been tested (at least with Mazda i know it has) and the CCC came back to them and said that unless you can prove 'categorically' that the exhaust modification caused the issue, Mazda are liable in terms of warranty. this also applies to other manufacturers.

Thirdly, provided that you are not altering the structural inetgrity of the vehicle, you do not have a duty to disclose the upgraded exhaust. you would only do so if you wish to insure it in addition to the cost of the vehicle.

Finally, the testing in QLD is based on noise tests, or decibal measurements primarily to deter 'hoons' in the 'hotted up commodore's'. Whilst adding a 3" to a diesel will increase the noise level slightly, it is still below the regulatory levels, and the aus guidelines, and so there would be no issue.

at the end of the day, if you dont want to do it, or you believe there is a risk - don't do it.

I am almost certain the Qld testing also includes Emission Testing (they did on the TV coverage I saw recently). And I am yet to be convinced that changing to a "freer" breathing system doesn't not increase emissions, at least as per the mandatory standards they measure against.

[rubin]

I am almost certain the Qld testing also includes Emission Testing (they did on the TV coverage I saw recently). And I am yet to be convinced that changing to a "freer" breathing system doesn't not increase emissions, at least as per the mandatory standards they measure against.

If you do it the 18yr old hoon way, it will no doubt render the vehicle unroadworthy, however if you spend the money to do it properly, it shouldn't change the emissions level.

FWIW - a little research proves all of this.

[Haystacks]

I found the sound system pretty ordinary... No idea what half that shit was getting played on the way home.

Maybe it was because I was in a state of semi consciousness. Now I know how Payne Stewart must have felt.

I lol'd

[jasonb]

I have a new Colorado , cant fault it yet , other than no CD player ! Need a smart phone, so far 8.6ltrs/100 around town is best economy, would be better if I stopped my staff from driving it. It is a lot more comfortable than my previous hilux

[990B Luva]

I am almost certain the Qld testing also includes Emission Testing (they did on the TV coverage I saw recently). And I am yet to be convinced that changing to a "freer" breathing system doesn't not increase emissions, at least as per the mandatory standards they measure against.Queensland's roadside testing is exhaust volume only. Currently there is nowhere in Queensland to conduct an IM240 emissions test. Depending on how the exhaust is setup, it may even decrease measurable emissions.