Formula 1 - 2014

[Mububban]

6 weeks till the first race of the season. Here's a helpful video listing the changes to the cars for the 2014 season. Must have kept the engineers pretty busy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYJXR1TgpSg


Hamilton crashed his Merc due to a front wing failure in testing. No injury done.

And apparently Vettel is still a **** so business as usual so far.

[KristianJ]

Oh, the noses! :(

The late 90s/early 00s (the best looking modern F1 cars IMO) seem an eternity ago.

[rubin]

But the redbull looks awesome still - don't know how they managed that.

The Ferrari looks different, not good, not bad, just different. I do like the force India front end though. It looks the most normal.

[G.K]

Here's a good video that shows off the sound of the new engines. From about 1:50 onwards there is comparisons of the old versus the new sound. I think I still prefer the higher revs of the old engines. Maybe the new sound will grow on me but I'm glad I got to Melbourne last year before they made the change.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9OYmVw2QjA

[Bluey]

Looking forward to the Melbourne race. Will get to see and hear these new cars and see if Renault have manged to overcome the engine probs they had in Jerez.

[Mububban]

Here's a good video that shows off the sound of the new engines. From about 1:50 onwards there is comparisons of the old versus the new sound. I think I still prefer the higher revs of the old engines. Maybe the new sound will grow on me but I'm glad I got to Melbourne last year before they made the change.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9OYmVw2QjA

V8s definitely sound better don't they? Still, I hope the changes will shake up the grid and give everyone a chance on the podium.

[KristianJ]

And the V10s sounded even better again.

I grew up a little too recently for the V12s but looking at YouTube vids they sound like they were screamers as well.

The Red Bull reliability dramas are providing some nice tension though...could give Adrian Newey a few sleepless nights, that's for sure.

[WBennett]

The V10s and 12s were the business. I remember the first time I saw F1 live this LeytonHouse screamed by at a bazillion rpm. It was magic.

[Grunt]

yeah I still remember the noise from the Final race at Adelaide. Music :)

[rubin]

I'm very very excite for this.

Slate is wiped clean and everyone starts from scratch again, and the sound of the cars is great as well, each one sounds different (like they used to) and has character.

Williams FTW in Melbourne.

[Slothman]

Its the first time in years I actually want to watch the race. Will be interesting to see how it goes...and Rubin..good to see another Williams fan :) Not much to cheer about in previous seasons :(

[Mububban]

Possibly lots of DNF for technical reasons with the new cars, will definitely be interesting to see how they've all coped.

[rubin]

not a williams fan - im just picking them to win the first race.

I'm a redbull fan, but not cause of the wins or vettel. I like the work of Adrian Newey (I find it incredibly interesting and even studied Aero at uni originally), and also because of the Aussie connection. Have met ricca on a number of occasions (before he was an F1 driver) and he's got to be one of the nicest blokes you will ever meet in your life. Seems to genuinely give a shit about what your saying, when most famous/semi-famous people couldnt care less.

[talbo]

Will be interesting certainly in the first few races. I think they've (FIA) made a huge mistake having KERS put out so much power. If KERS fails on a car for e.g. McLaren they'd get passed by a Caterham like they were standing still.

I can't wait for quali on Saturday to see if anyone's been sand bagging in winter testing!

[Mububban]

Will be interesting certainly in the first few races. I think they've (FIA) made a huge mistake having KERS put out so much power. If KERS fails on a car for e.g. McLaren they'd get passed by a Caterham like they were standing still.

Interesting video at the top of this link (http://www.news.com.au/sport/motorsport/with-a-raft-of-new-rules-and-new-engines-we-run-through-the-key-changes-to-f1-for-2014/story-fnec578q-1226851190006), apparently 2013 KERS was good for 4/10 of a second per lap. This year, it will be worth 3-4 whole seconds per lap!!! Wowsers. Lucky Marc Weber's not racing F1 any more of his ERS would never work and he'd be getting done by Force India :D

[BenM]

Yep, they will be on the ERS pretty much every time they're on full throttle. But I thought it wasn't a push button this year - all computer controlled as to when the extra power is delivered.

And it's more than just KERS - there's a heat recovery system as well (hence why I called it ERS) - there are two systems.

Sorry if it's all covered in the video - I'm on my phone and haven't watched it. Was reading some good articles in the Melb GP program yesterday though! Wish I was going this year, but other things took priority.

[rubin]

The ers is definitely computer controlled. It essentially takes out the turbo lag and is designed to generate the same torque patterns

[Grunt]

Anyone else keen to play fantasy F1

http://f1dreamteam.virtualsports.com.au

League is F1 Grunt

Not sure how to invite thru here as the site does invites thru email.

[BenM]

How good was that quali session? Stoked for Ricciardo. Sad for Vettel. Not.

This year is going to be VERY interesting....

[Steve]

That was some great driving by the lads, not sure if I like the V6 turbo idea

[rubin]

That was one of the best I've seen. Just insane driving by the lads. And Ricca is a genuine talent.

[G.K]

............Sad for Vettel. Not...............

I have to admit that I did genuinely laugh out loud when I heard the crowd cheer as Vettel was knocked out of quali.

[Mububban]

I have to admit that I did genuinely laugh out loud when I heard the crowd cheer as Vettel was knocked out of quali.

You can be a world champion, but acting like a c*** won't win you many fans :D

Coverage goes all day, what time does the actual race kick off?

[rubin]

1pm WA time

[Iain]

Channel ten coverage is still shit.

[Grunt]

Is not too bad on 1, is there a difference between 1 & 10?

[Iain]

Is not too bad on 1, is there a difference between 1 & 10?

No, talking about 1 as well.

[sms316]

Haven't watched a F1 in years. Whatever happened to them having Martin Brundle and the other pom? Their pooh would be better to listen to than these knobs.

[Grunt]

The poms are commentating.

[G.K]

Still got Brundle and Croft as the other pom. But you still have to put up with dribble from Greg Rust either side of the ad breaks unfortunately.

[Steve]

Poms cause sky has the rights for the race

[sms316]

Ok. Flicked it on and that Aussie nuff nuff was leading into a break.

[Iain]

Yep, wish we could just get the sky coverage.

[rubin]

Yep, wish we could just get the sky coverage.
agreed.

i know the footage is still what ever is given by FOM, so all get the same, but the sky blokes are millions better than the ten/one muppets.

[Iain]

I like Brundle and Croft, it's just the Aussie morons. I know it was the celebrity race, but they had Angela Bishop commentating ffs.

[G.K]

Yep, wish we could just get the sky coverage.

+1

The after race coverage is really good too with the sky coverage. I've streamed it online a few times and they have a full hour of post race stuff that is normally pretty interesting.

Having to put up with the channel 10 cross promotion all day today doesn't make it any easier. I mean really, I didn't switch on the F1 coverage to see the likes of Amanda Keller, Chris Brown, some chefs from a cooking show and biggest loser muppets sitting in a studio talking.

I don't mind them crossing to the studio for Mel McLaughlin however.

[rubin]

+1

The after race coverage is really good to with the sky coverage. I've streamed it online a few times and they have a full hour of post race stuff that is normally pretty interesting.

Having to put up with the channel 10 cross promotion all day today doesn't make it any easier. I mean really, I didn't switch on the F1 coverage to see the likes of Amanda Keller, Chris Brown, some chefs from a cooking show and biggest loser muppets sitting in a studio talking.

I don't mind them crossing to the studio for Mel McLaughlin however.

Really? Shes ****ing painfull to listen too.

if they did a 'Bikini' special, i might watch her on that though - on mute.

[G.K]

Really? Shes ****ing painfull to listen too.

Yes, agreed, she is still a bit "green" when it comes to doing an anchor role. But I don't tend to take too much notice of what she's saying, I just look at the pictures.

[sms316]

Really? Shes ****ing painfull to listen too.if they did a 'Bikini' special, i might watch her on that though - on mute. It's the female bit that stuffs it up for you.

[rubin]

It's the female bit that stuffs it up for you.

you dont read so good do u.

[chappy1970]

Massive congrats to Daniel R on that incredible drive, hopefully big things for him in the future

[WBennett]

According to twitter

Ricciardo's car has been found to have "exceeded consistently the maximum allowed fuel-flow limit". Big problem

[Iain]

Oh dear.

[KristianJ]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/03/16/ricciardo-faces-investigation-fuel-limit-breach/comment-page-2/#comments

Not good...

[BenM]

He will probably get dq'd for that. Massive fail by the team. What a tragedy.

[BUSHY]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/03/16/ricciardo-faces-investigation-fuel-limit-breach/comment-page-2/#comments

Not good...

Oh no.
Fingers crossed.

[Bruce Dickinson]

Vettel probably dobbed him in

[BenM]

Funnily enough supposedly the Mercs were using too much in practice too... Stewards got them to turn it down and everything was happy.

Really really hope he keeps his podium but not optimistic... Red Bull would need to come up with a pretty fantastic excuse...

[rubin]

Funnily enough supposedly the Mercs were using too much in practice too... Stewards got them to turn it down and everything was happy. Really really hope he keeps his podium but not optimistic... Red Bull would need to come up with a pretty fantastic excuse...

That's the good/bad part of fp1/2/3. U can use illegal parts or run over the limits (teams often run with extra aero parts) and as long as they are legal for qualy and race that's all that matters.

A shame for the young bloke too. I don't see how he won't lose the second place.

[backintheswing]

Is Hocko's bet for the punters club safe?

[G.K]

Vettel probably dobbed him in

Haha.

Regardless of what happens, it was good seeing some new faces on the podium. I was really over seeing finger boy on the top step nearly every race for the past few years. I LOL'd at Ricciardo's "I'm trippin' balls" comment.

[Jackson]

It would be a shame for him to lose it, but looking at the positives I don't think it will be long before he is on another podium.

[BenM]

Haha.

Regardless of what happens, it was good seeing some new faces on the podium. I was really over seeing finger boy on the top step nearly every race for the past few years. I LOL'd at Ricciardo's "I'm trippin' balls" comment.

Yeah that was a great call. Right up there with McLaughlin's 'plucked it in first and gave it some jandal, *** yeah' a couple of weeks ago!

[BUSHY]

Previously my interest was waning, but this year I'm excited again for what could potentially be the 'rebirth' of F1. Today was exciting to watch, which is the first time in a festive thought that. Dan being a Perth boy probably helps.

[Shadesy]

Ricciardo disqualified.

[BUSHY]

That sucks.

[rubin]

Ricciardo disqualified.


That sucks.

being appealed.

the regulations state that the maximum average fuel flow rate is 100kg/h. I reckon the team will appeal on the basis that it was an average of 100kg/h.....

[3Puttpete]

How does that work? Don't they only get 100kg for a 2 hour race?

[rubin]

Yep.

It's both, they get 100kg of fuel for the race, and can have a max flow rate of 100kg/h during the race.

[Mububban]

Well, that sucks for Ricciardo. Red Bull reckon they have "a strong case" for appeal, but apparently the race directors said they'd have a zero tolerance policy before the race began, so they might want to make an example of Red Bull from the get go to deter any other team from trying to bend the rules.

[Slothman]

Yep I actually watched the race, thought it was great.

Not sold on the new "sound"....but hey.

Good thing my online betting account paid out the bet for Ricciardo getting a podium...as long as they don't remove it :)

[Iain]

the regulations state that the maximum average fuel flow rate is 100kg/h. I reckon the team will appeal on the basis that it was an average of 100kg/h.....

You sure it says Average? All I can find is this - 5.1.4 - Fuel mass flow must not exceed 100kg/hr

[Ron Burgundy]

RB are alleging the FIA supplied sensor was faulty and that their own sensor indicated the flow was fine. Apparently the FIA sensor was faulty during free practice. They got given a replacement for qualifying which also failed. For the race they were told to reuse the original sensor and an offset would be applied to try to calculate the true flow. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Slothman]

RB are alleging the FIA supplied sensor was faulty and that their own sensor indicated the flow was fine. Apparently the FIA sensor was faulty during free practice. They got given a replacement for qualifying which also failed. For the race they were told to reuse the original sensor and an offset would be applied to try to calculate the true flow. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Yeh I just read that. If Red Bull prove that their flow did not exceed the requirement, could be interesting.

New Rule next round : Teams cannot use shit that FIA provide, regardless if that shit works or not :)

[Iain]

Probably depends on the difference in the 2 readings.

[rubin]

Well, that sucks for Ricciardo. Red Bull reckon they have "a strong case" for appeal, but apparently the race directors said they'd have a zero tolerance policy before the race began, so they might want to make an example of Red Bull from the get go to deter any other team from trying to bend the rules.


You sure it says Average? All I can find is this - 5.1.4 - Fuel mass flow must not exceed 100kg/hr

Sorry - your correct. I was going from memory without re-reading the regs.


RB are alleging the FIA supplied sensor was faulty and that their own sensor indicated the flow was fine. Apparently the FIA sensor was faulty during free practice. They got given a replacement for qualifying which also failed. For the race they were told to reuse the original sensor and an offset would be applied to try to calculate the true flow. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.


Probably depends on the difference in the 2 readings.

The case red bull are going for as i see it are exactly the above, BUT they didn't use an actual sensor, they based it on a fall back position of calculations and ratings.

The issue though, is they did it regardless of the FIA. If they had sought FIA approval then there is no issue, but they didn't. The other part is that the FIA had advised on 'numerous occasions' that Red Bull were running over the limit, and offered advice on what to do to fix it, but they ignored the orders.

Will be interesting to see the outcome. F1 has become all about the black and white 'law/rules' etc, rather then the 'intent' as is normally the case.

[3Puttpete]

Somebody used a sensor

[rubin]

should have clarified - they had the sensor in place, but disregarded the readings it gave as they (and the FIA) believed it to be faulty.

[talbo]

It's a farce! How can they come up with a regulation that stipulates fuel flow when there's already a limit on how much fuel a car can carry!! I would understand if re-fueling was allowed and no limit on engine usage because then you could use it to your advantage but if there was an issue with flow then it's in RBR's best interests to make sure they have enough juice to get the car home and score points. Why penalise yourself by carrying more fuel than necessary!!

I was a young lad 1985 when I first saw F1 here in Adelaide and was hooked by the sound of those 3.5 V12's and 1.5 V6 Turbo cars pushing 1000+ hp but these new turbo engines sound piss weak. I really do hope the FIA come to their senses and do something about it!

[rubin]

It's a farce! How can they come up with a regulation that stipulates fuel flow when there's already a limit on how much fuel a car can carry!! I would understand if re-fueling was allowed and no limit on engine usage because then you could use it to your advantage but if there was an issue with flow then it's in RBR's best interests to make sure they have enough juice to get the car home and score points. Why penalise yourself by carrying more fuel than necessary!!

I was a young lad 1985 when I first saw F1 here in Adelaide and was hooked by the sound of those 3.5 V12's and 1.5 V6 Turbo cars pushing 1000+ hp but these new turbo engines sound piss weak. I really do hope the FIA come to their senses and do something about it!

Its not a case of carrying more than necessary - they are only allowed 100kg for a race, and by all reports, every single team on the grid are filling their cars to the absolute brim to make the distance, plus have the 1kg for analysis afterwards.

On another note, at the start of the race when it was alonso, bottas and hulkenberg coming into the first corner - that sound was AWESOME!!!!!!! it sounded like a supersonic jet racing past with the turbo release and the engine braking.

[Slothman]

In my mind the limit of fuel flow even with a limit on fuel max fuel to carry would be to stop teams like Ferrari (yes my support BIAS applied there) from screwing with team tactics etc.

If you could boost your fuel usage to a point where you knew you had no hope in hell of finishing the race, just to get that extra boost in speed, just to get involved in a battle with other team cars to slow them down so your other car can disappear into the distance.....sacrifical lamb as it where....

At least that is where my mind went to immediately after hearing about the fuel flow restriction :)

[Ron Burgundy]

The FIA are a law unto themselves so who knows what will happen.

I'm not a huge Red Bull fan but it totally understand them telling race officials to jam it when told during the race they had the fuel rate wrong. One of their cars had retired, their only other chance to score constructors points was Ricciardo who was driving brilliantly to hold onto second place, the official sensor was demonstrably faulty and their measurements said the fuel was fine.

If the sensors don't work no one should be using them. Since when has F1 been about doing an economy run anyway?

[talbo]

[QUOTE=rubin;1086022]Its not a case of carrying more than necessary - they are only allowed 100kg for a race, and by all reports, every single team on the grid are filling their cars to the absolute brim to make the distance, plus have the 1kg for analysis afterwards.

QUOTE]

Exactly my point. Why would RBR (or ay other team) jeopardise not finishing and earning very valuable constructors points by using more juice than necessary...... Obviously they've got to keep a close eye on engines also as I believe they're only allowed 5 units for the whole year.

[Slothman]

Exactly my point. Why would RBR (or ay other team) jeopardise not finishing and earning very valuable constructors points by using more juice than necessary...... Obviously they've got to keep a close eye on engines also as I believe they're only allowed 5 units for the whole year.

Hypothetically??

Car 2 is sitting outside of points. Car 1 in battle for bare points.

Car 2 burns way more fuel with allowed, giving far more power, catches group and gets involved in battle to let Car 1 clear out knowing full well they are burning way too much fuel to finish the race.

[rubin]

[QUOTE=rubin;1086022]Its not a case of carrying more than necessary - they are only allowed 100kg for a race, and by all reports, every single team on the grid are filling their cars to the absolute brim to make the distance, plus have the 1kg for analysis afterwards.

QUOTE]

Exactly my point. Why would RBR (or ay other team) jeopardise not finishing and earning very valuable constructors points by using more juice than necessary...... Obviously they've got to keep a close eye on engines also as I believe they're only allowed 5 units for the whole year.

I think your forgetting a few things.

The cars don't and cant run at a 100kg/h flow rate for the entire length of the race. You come off throttle to brake, pit stops etc. In addition, none of the teams work out their fuel use, based on having a safety car. For the single safety car period at the Melbourne GP, each car would have saved approximately 3 times the amount of fuel as laps (ie the safety car was out for 3 or 4 laps, they saved in terms of fuel use, approx 10 - 12 laps worth) The energy recovery and deployment systems are so powerful in the new car, they could, theoretically, lap under the safety car using only the 'ERS'.

Take all this into account, and the teams could, quite easily, bounce over the flow rate.

The reasoning for the flow rate as well is that it stops the teams from running super slow to begin with, and then going flat out and lapping the field at the end.

[talbo]

Those scenarios are on the assumption that there is no penalty to tyre and engine degradation for high fuel burn which should equate to faster lap times.

Why pay another 20+ seconds on an extra tyre stop (assuming you have spare set(s)) or risk destroying engines because high fuel burn = high boost. If this scenario played out in October or November in order to secure a WDC for your team mate then I can understand the concern. Teams care more for the WCC and the only way to score WCC points is to have both cars finish in the points.

[990B Luva]

Talk amongst a few other forums is RBR did things the way they did to prove that the fuel flow meter is inaccurate. 100kg/hr is only 73.7L/hr,which is quite incredible to keep fuel flow that low for such high power figures. Case in point, the car I'm building for my brother makes 640hp, yet we have 420kg/hr of fuel flow based on the specific gravity weight of 85% Ethanol fuel.

[Iain]

RBR also tend to be a law unto themselves, so I'm not surprised the FIA would take the hard stance.

[Coffs_Hacker]

I have a feeling a Deja vu from last night, Ricciardo better get accustomed to this sort of shit happening

[hocko]

Red Bull number 2 car mechanics need rooting. I cannot believe they **** things up so often!
How hard is it to change a tyre?

[Pencil]

Red Bull number 2 car mechanics need rooting. I cannot believe they **** things up so often!How hard is it to change a tyre? Bit of cash on the side from Vettel?

[Mububban]

So who does Pasta Marinara have incriminating photos of to keep getting an F1 seat? The guy is a maniac.

[Veefore]

So who does Pasta Marinara have incriminating photos of to keep getting an F1 seat? The guy is a maniac. Probably has lots of $$$$$$$$$$ behind him.

[BenM]

Probably has lots of $$$$$$$$$$ behind him.

He does. His personal sponsorship from a (state owned) Venezuelan oil company is worth millions, Lotus needed the money - they didn't pay Kimi all year in 2013 so they were obviously strapped.

Must admit the first thing I said when I saw that crash was that he is overdue for a ban. 5 grid spots is ridiculously lenient given his track record. The safety car sure livened the race up though, it was great to watch!

So very, very happy to see that result for Ricciardo. Now just gotta hope he gets his podium from Australia back and he'll be running 3rd in the championship behind the Mercs!

[chappy1970]

When I was at the Melbourne GP, I read the blurb on lotus in the magazine and he is driving as a personal favour to the now deceased President of Venezuela.

By chance I was in the Lotus suite on the Saturday and he came into the suite after qualifying for an interview

[coalesce]

How long before heads roll at Ferrari? Can't imagine they are happy being also-rans - and what does that mean for Alonso?

I have to confess not being too sympathetic to them due to team orders in the Schumacher era - which is why Mercedes letting their drivers race (or more likely not being able to stop their drivers racing!) is so refreshing. If you have a team with a clear advantage over the rest, with team orders, you don't even get the spectacle of their drivers competing...

[mrbluu]

What I dont understand about the fuel flow thing, is if the Max amount a car can carry is 100kg, why bother have a fuel flow meter??

[rubin]

How long before heads roll at Ferrari? Can't imagine they are happy being also-rans - and what does that mean for Alonso?

I have to confess not being too sympathetic to them due to team orders in the Schumacher era - which is why Mercedes letting their drivers race (or more likely not being able to stop their drivers racing!) is so refreshing. If you have a team with a clear advantage over the rest, with team orders, you don't even get the spectacle of their drivers competing...

Heads have rolled.

domenicalli has 'resigned' (read been fired).


What I dont understand about the fuel flow thing, is if the Max amount a car can carry is 100kg, why bother have a fuel flow meter??

because its to do with current road regs in britain and the taxes applied.

Basically, you get 100kg of fuel for a race. with that, you need to last the race distance, but can't use more then 100kg/h of fuel. SAfety car periods etc can mean that teams can literally burn fuel off to get max performance to make use of having that bit extra.

[mrbluu]

Heads have rolled.domenicalli has 'resigned' (read been fired). because its to do with current road regs in britain and the taxes applied.Basically, you get 100kg of fuel for a race. with that, you need to last the race distance, but can't use more then 100kg/h of fuel. SAfety car periods etc can mean that teams can literally burn fuel off to get max performance to make use of having that bit extra. Still makes no sense.

[Dotty]

Still makes no sense.
I gave up on F1, when it left Adelaide, but ...

I remember a gripe that Alan Jones had in 1981, when the turbo 1.5l were making inroads into the 3l 'normally aspirated' cars.

Back then, the turbos weren't as fast through the curves and corners, but had a higher top speed. A turbo car would essentially hold up the better handling car, nullifying its advantage and if it was passed, just re-pass it on the straight again.

When interviewed (at length), Jones' idea was a fuel-flow limit. The then-current total capacity limit didn't stop this hare-and-baulked-tortoise racing, as the turbos were only at the 'super-rate' for the few seconds needed to show a clean pair of heels. The 1.5l engine would use less fuel, when off-boost and baulking in the corners. So the average fuel usage was the same.

Back then, lowering the total fuel limit would also affect the 3l teams, as they then couldn't run their engines to the full potential, the gap would actually widen.

Man, I miss the days with the real Rosberg, Piquet and Fittipaldi.

[mrbluu]

I gave up on F1, when it left Adelaide, but ...

I remember a gripe that Alan Jones had in 1981, when the turbo 1.5l were making inroads into the 3l 'normally aspirated' cars.

Back then, the turbos weren't as fast through the curves and corners, but had a higher top speed. A turbo car would essentially hold up the better handling car, nullifying its advantage and if it was passed, just re-pass it on the straight again.

When interviewed (at length), Jones' idea was a fuel-flow limit. The then-current total capacity limit didn't stop this hare-and-baulked-tortoise racing, as the turbos were only at the 'super-rate' for the few seconds needed to show a clean pair of heels. The 1.5l engine would use less fuel, when off-boost and baulking in the corners. So the average fuel usage was the same.

Back then, lowering the total fuel limit would also affect the 3l teams, as they then couldn't run their engines to the full potential, the gap would actually widen.

Man, I miss the days with the real Rosberg, Piquet and Fittipaldi.


So they are implementing a 30+ year old idea??

The old days were awesome!!!

[Dotty]

So they are implementing a 30+ year old idea??

The old days were awesome!!!
The whole turbo cars idea is 30+ year old, but they wouldn't implement those rules then, as they didn't want to upset the big manufacturers - Ferrari and Renault, who didn't like being beaten by a 15yo Ford engine.

It's become a participation certificate formula now, where they just have to colour between the lines.

It used to be 'Find a breakthrough and make the most of that advantage for the next month to a year. Then get blown out of the water, when the others copy it and do it better. Then look for another advantage, whether in performance, handling or aerodynamics'.

[Veefore]

It used to be 'Find a breakthrough and make the most of that advantage for the next month to a year. Then get blown out of the water, when the others copy it and do it better. Then look for another advantage, whether in performance, handling or aerodynamics'.

It still is and always has been.

Constant rule changes to stop the cars from getting too fast for a human to drive have only made that more common.
I've been a Formula One fan since about 1980 and the racing in those days was like a soccer match. You'd wait the whole race in anticipation of a passing move that might never come. There is more passing in a single race than in an entire season of the "old days" (80's-00's).

And the question earlier about the fuel capacity. The tanks can hold more than 100kg. 100kg of fuel measured in litres varies depending on ambient temperature. That's why the limit is in kg instead of litres. It's also why they could never implement a fuel flow limit in the past. There are too many variables from race to race for a simple restrictor to be effective.

In the past when there were litre limits, the team with the best techniques to cool the fuel and keep it cool until enough was used in the race had a power advantage.

[BenM]

But then mechanical reliability used to be a lottery through the 80s until about the mid 90s so passing wasn't always required to shake the order up a bit. I stopped watching for years when Schumacher was winning every bloody thing and really only started watching religiously again 4 or 5 years ago.

[Double D]

This one looks pretty accurate


29943

[BenM]

Pasta Marinara.... haha

Can't wait for the race. Ricciardo out qualifies Seb yet again. Has Seb and Rosberg in the dominant Merc behind him... I'm tipping fireworks at the start. Hope no crashes, just good racing.

[Double D]

It is good to see Vettel getting touched up that's for sure..especially by the Aussie. I can't believe how much Ferrari are struggling...hard to watch my man Kimi going at grandma pace!

[mrbluu]

Good to see Ricco pass Vettel a few laps after vettel told the team bad luck when they asked him to let Riccio through.

[Ron Burgundy]

Good to see Ricco pass Vettel a few laps after vettel told the team bad luck when they asked him to let Riccio through. That few laps might have cost him a podium. He was reeling Alonso in at the end. Now that vettel doesn't have the blown diffuser he's showing that he's not so fast after all. He might have 4 titles, but the longer this goes on the more momentum will gather behind him just being a good driver in an exceptional car, rather than the other way around.

[rubin]

That few laps might have cost him a podium. He was reeling Alonso in at the end. Now that vettel doesn't have the blown diffuser he's showing that he's not so fast after all. He might have 4 titles, but the longer this goes on the more momentum will gather behind him just being a good driver in an exceptional car, rather than the other way around.

Rica got past cause vetted let him. He moved aside in turn 1 (which was a deliberate move).

I have problems with the second part of your pst as well. That would mean, by definition that webber was utter shit, and the other blokes on the grid are crap as well. Listen to anyone in the know, and they all say that vettel is an exceptional driver in a great car. A good driver wouldn't have won 9 straight, and 4 straight championships. Those same guys have mentioned during and after, they webber was one of the blokes on everyone's wish lists but he kept signing with Redbull as well.

The common consensus is that from a driving standpoint, ricca has more experience recently in driving a car that he has to fight, vettel is used to driving a car that is on rails in comparison. Therefore ricca is getting more from the car. Look back to last year, vettel wasn't doing great for the first half of the year, and literally ran away with it once he got the car sorted.

I hate vettel, and am yelling at the TV when ricca is smashing him, but vettel is one of the great drivers of the generation. To day anything less is very very misinformed.

[Iain]

I have problems with the second part of your pst as well. That would mean, by definition that webber was utter shit, and the other blokes on the grid are crap as well. Listen to anyone in the know, and they all say that vettel is an exceptional driver in a great car. A good driver wouldn't have won 9 straight, and 4 straight championships. Those same guys have mentioned during and after, they webber was one of the blokes on everyone's wish lists but he kept signing with Redbull as well.

The common consensus is that from a driving standpoint, ricca has more experience recently in driving a car that he has to fight, vettel is used to driving a car that is on rails in comparison. Therefore ricca is getting more from the car. Look back to last year, vettel wasn't doing great for the first half of the year, and literally ran away with it once he got the car sorted.

You pretty much argue against your own point with the 2nd paragraph. If Vettel was truly an exceptional driver, then he wouldn't need a car to be on rails. He should be able to get everything out of the car, but he isn't because he isn't used to it. Pretty sure an average car never stopped Michael Schumacher from beating his teammate.

[virge666]

You pretty much argue against your own point with the 2nd paragraph. If Vettel was truly an exceptional driver, then he wouldn't need a car to be on rails. He should be able to get everything out of the car, but he isn't because he isn't used to it. Pretty sure an average car never stopped Michael Schumacher from beating his teammate.

Depends what you are use to. We are not talking he cannot drive it... he is a 3/10ths to half second off the pace that Danny can do consistently. The Formula 3 cars dont have all the whizbang blown diffusers, clever Aero and other stuff that Seb has had for the last 6 years, so what you are use to is what you can drive.

I am use to driving a 3 litre, short wheel base, rear wheel drive car with a shitload of understeer. If you stick me in a 2.5 litre turbo rear wheel drive - it is going to take a while for me to figure it out to the same level as the last 4 years of driving the other car. The entry and car setup on the corners is totally different and so is the power delivery. Especially when there is no testing...

Seb is class. He will be back, especially when gets a decent bloody power plant.

[Iain]

Seb is class. He will be back, especially when gets a decent bloody power plant.

No doubt.

[Veefore]

Agree with Rubin and Virge. The massive change in car does take a while to get a handle on, no matter who you are or how good you are.
I remember that whenever we invited a "star driver" to come and do a guest race with us in Formula Vee they would start the race with the intention of thrashing us and finish the race hoping not to be lapped.

Vettel is definitely no hack.

[rubin]

You pretty much argue against your own point with the 2nd paragraph. If Vettel was truly an exceptional driver, then he wouldn't need a car to be on rails. He should be able to get everything out of the car, but he isn't because he isn't used to it. Pretty sure an average car never stopped Michael Schumacher from beating his teammate.

he got beaten consistently when he returned for mercedes. and that, at the time, was a rubbish car.

[Iain]

he got beaten consistently when he returned for mercedes. and that, at the time, was a rubbish car.

He had also been out for a few years. Not really a fair comparison.

[talbo]

How long before heads roll at Ferrari? Can't imagine they are happy being also-rans - and what does that mean for Alonso?

I have to confess not being too sympathetic to them due to team orders in the Schumacher era - which is why Mercedes letting their drivers race (or more likely not being able to stop their drivers racing!) is so refreshing. If you have a team with a clear advantage over the rest, with team orders, you don't even get the spectacle of their drivers competing...

Team orders! LOL!

Do television audiences actually believe most of the shit that comes out of commentators mouths! Funny really how they remember when Rubens was asked to move over for Michael but they forget (as well as Rubens) real fast about the US GP that Michael gifted Rubens in return. Mika Salo was asked to move over for Eddie Irvine and Michael also moved over for Eddie but on the single occasion when Rubens moved over for Michael in Austria constitutes team orders and somehow Michael needed help to win GPs. Most probably don't even know that Michael made amends that same year in the USA.

If a British driver had won 7 world titles and 91 GPs the perception of the man and the prancing horse would be vastly different.

[rubin]

Team orders! LOL!

Do television audiences actually believe most of the shit that comes out of commentators mouths! Funny really how they remember when Rubens was asked to move over for Michael but they forget (as well as Rubens) real fast about the US GP that Michael gifted Rubens in return. Mika Salo was asked to move over for Eddie Irvine and Michael also moved over for Eddie but on the single occasion when Rubens moved over for Michael in Austria constitutes team orders and somehow Michael needed help to win GPs. Most probably don't even know that Michael made amends that same year in the USA.

If a British driver had won 7 world titles and 91 GPs the perception of the man and the prancing horse would be vastly different.

I take it your not a fan of Ferrari at all.......... :roll:

[talbo]

I make it no secret that I'm a one eyed Ferrari supporter, but I also don't buy into propaganda initiated by British broadcasters and media that in my experience write columns in papers about a GP they clearly didn't watch. Every one is entitled to their opinion, just amuses me when opinions are based on general conjecture rather than facts.

[coalesce]

I make it no secret that I'm a one eyed Ferrari supporter, but I also don't buy into propaganda initiated by British broadcasters and media that in my experience write columns in papers about a GP they clearly didn't watch. Every one is entitled to their opinion, just amuses me when opinions are based on general conjecture rather than facts.

I was commenting about how it was good to see drivers on the same team allowed to race - I wasn't inferring anything about team orders other than they are not great to the viewer. I understand why teams do it

[Mububban]

Wow, Mercedes annihilated everyone, what a smashing. Great work for Dan Ricciardo to get his first official podium. And Vettel up from 15th to 5th.

And Pasta Marinara involved in another contact incident inside the first lap, anyone see this?

[coalesce]

I think Maldonado thinks he is racing go karts

[rubin]

Wow, Mercedes annihilated everyone, what a smashing. Great work for Dan Ricciardo to get his first official podium. And Vettel up from 15th to 5th.

And Pasta Marinara involved in another contact incident inside the first lap, anyone see this?


I think Maldonado thinks he is racing go karts

It was a similar move vettel made a few laps earlier when passing the catarham - just vettel has the skill to do it. Tried going round the outside of one corner, and when that didn't work, just pushed down the inside from a mile back. The fact that Kobayashi pulled out of it and let him have it says something - Kobayashi is the king of diving overtakes.....

[Mububban]

New "trumpet" exhaust being tested to maybe make the F1 cars louder

http://www.news.com.au/sport/motorsport/mercedes-set-to-test-megaphone-exhaust-to-hopefully-fix-formula-1s-noise-complaint/story-fnec578q-1226915574520

[virge666]

It was a similar move vettel made a few laps earlier when passing the catarham - just vettel has the skill to do it. Tried going round the outside of one corner, and when that didn't work, just pushed down the inside from a mile back. The fact that Kobayashi pulled out of it and let him have it says something - Kobayashi is the king of diving overtakes.....

also a slight difference in tyres.

Maldonado is a ****ing moron and should have his license pulled.

[ZENNON]

Just quietly, I know it's only been 5 races and all, but my tips (on superbru) are going awesome. One of the guys on a car forum I'm on started it. 25 of us on there are doing it. Its only a for the hell of it thing. No money or anything.

Me after Spain:

1/24 in the car forum pool
7/820 in the Australia pool
7/4,530 in the RedBull fans pool
106/22,593 globally

[rubin]

also a slight difference in tyres.

Maldonado is a ****ing moron and should have his license pulled.

I believe there is a market somewhere with bloody low odds on him being suspended for a race this season.

[ZENNON]

Facebook post from Nico Rosberg:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/s720x720/10277616_10152471388649874_4597211584760089657_n.p ng

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152471388649874&set=a.10150122633674874.318801.11459059873&type=1&theater

[ZENNON]

http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1400055269.jpg

[coalesce]

Didn't they already say that it didn't work/make much of a difference?

[ZENNON]

No idea sorry

[coalesce]

It didn't make it much louder so we will just have to look for another solution.

We tried the new exhaust [because] as a team we want to do good for the sport, but it wasn't a great solution. It just didn't work.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/27418196 (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/27418196)

[ZENNON]

Cool. I'm gonna miss quali this weekend but looking forward to the race

[Feelzy]

Monaco is by far my favourite GP. If Ricciardo qualifies well again then we should have a real chance to see him challenge for the win at last.

[Mububban]

Is Monaco one of those tracks where overtaking is almost impossible?

[BenM]

Monaco is by far my favourite GP. If Ricciardo qualifies well again then we should have a real chance to see him challenge for the win at last.

Yes. It is difficult, there are a few places in the back half of the track like the swimming pool but not too many. It's narrow and bumpy and there are walls everywhere so the penalty for a screw up is high!

[ZENNON]

Yes

[ZENNON]

lol

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/t1.0-9/10365772_771114046234639_269330043396763322_n.jpg

[Mububban]

:D

[coalesce]

lol

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/t1.0-9/10365772_771114046234639_269330043396763322_n.jpg

Apparently he was told about this and laughed

[Feelzy]

lol

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/t1.0-9/10365772_771114046234639_269330043396763322_n.jpg

Haha that's excellent

[Mububban]

Another podium for Dan Ricciardo, great stuff. What a crazy unforgiving course Monaco is. And man those Mercedes cars are just kicking arse.

[BenM]

If Dan keeps this going he could easily finish best of the rest. Really happy with how he is going - just wish the Merc wasn't so dominant.

Lewis is a crybaby.

[Feelzy]

If Dan keeps this going he could easily finish best of the rest. Really happy with how he is going - just wish the Merc wasn't so dominant.

Lewis is a crybaby.

Great race by Ricciardo - would like the starts to be better but he keeps his head and fortunately a retirement and puncture helped him back to the podium. Those Mercedes though.. Damn that power - Thought Dan was a chance to steal 2nd with a half blind Hamilton but that acceleration out of the corners just put too much distance between them every. single. time. The Ferrari's have been flying off the start

[coalesce]

Monaco is a microcosm of F1. The location is great, flashy, hi-tech, but the racing itself is mind-numbing. After the first couple of corners, you know exactly what is going to happen for the rest of the race, barring someone putting their car in a barrier, but even then, the safety car doesn't do anything other than make the cars follow each other a bit closer again.

[ZENNON]

I laughed at this
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/q71/s480x480/1959416_722805014447099_7267405220983175693_n.jpg

ps old pic from Monaco https://i.imgur.com/NU759yT.jpg (nsfw)
(from here https://imgur.com/a/OAGDZ)

[Mububban]

What was Hamilton sooking about?

[coalesce]

A few things. From qualifying he was upset that after setting provisional pole Rosberg "made a mistake" that caused yellow flags which interrupted Hamilton's last flying lap. A bit like Schumacher did a few years back but less blatant.

Then during the race there was an incident which was fairly clearly going to mean a safety car, and Hamilton wanted to do his pit stop, but the team didn't let him and he had a whinge on the radio after saying something like "I knew it was right thing to do but I knew you guys wouldn't call me in"

Then later in the race the poor bub got something in his eye meaning he couldn't see out of it, which caused him to stop chasing Rosberg and have to defend from Ricciardo

[BenM]

What was Hamilton sooking about?

He had something in his eye.

[ZENNON]

He had tears in his eye.
fixed

[virge666]

I use to like Hamilton... But after last weekend. He is a ****ing spoilt child.

Go Britney...

[BenM]

I've come full circle.

Used to think he was a spoilt child.

For the last year or so, thought he might have grown up a bit.

Now, think he is still a spoilt child. Threatening to do a Senna on Rosberg was completely uncalled for. But I understand why he did it - he feels that he is the number one driver and is feeling slighted that his teammate has been performing so well. Personally I'm glad Rosberg has been giving him a run for his money - he seems a grounded guy. Much like Ricciardo does - no BS, just race hard and don't get your knickers in a twist.

[virge666]

Personally I'm glad Rosberg has been giving him a run for his money - he seems a grounded guy. Much like Ricciardo does - no BS, just race hard and don't get your knickers in a twist.

Couldn't agree more.

[ZENNON]

I don't actually mind Lewis - the bitching lately is annoying but I think he has grown from where he use to be - really dislike his "haircut" though

[virge666]

I don't actually mind Lewis - the bitching lately is annoying but I think he has grown from where he use to be - really dislike his "haircut" though

Bitching ????

It is hard to distinguish whether it is the Turbo whine or just the dribble coming out of his face.

Never have I ever wanted to punch anyone as much as that muppet.

[rubin]

Bitching ????

It is hard to distinguish whether it is the Turbo whine or just the dribble coming out of his face.

Never have I ever wanted to punch anyone as much as that muppet.

He has an excessive level of self entitlement that pisses me off greatly.

Funny thing, Lauda has said (on a number of occasions) that if they out the 2 guys in an identical car, lewis is quicker by about 2 tenths on average. BUT - Rosberg is better at setup and able to adapt quicker than lewis to minor changes.

[Ron Burgundy]

I love that the tension between them is livening up the season. It's got Senna/Prost written all over it and I wouldn't be surprised of one of them takes the other out at some point. Maybe some more 'accidental' qualifying lock-ups too. They're lucky they've got Lauda at the helm, given the experience of his own feud with Prost as a team mate.

I'm a big fan of Lewis but his bagging of Rosberg is starting to get old, especially his claim that Rosberg isn't hungry enough to win the title because he grew up in Monaco whereas Lewis lived in a council flat.

[rubin]

I really like rosberg. He seems to be a decent sort of guy that was brought up with manners - and like ricciardo - seems to be very appreciative of actually having a place in the team to drive, rather than the sense of entitlement some of the drivers have.....

I agree though, the Hamilton BS about being hungry, is exactly that. Rosberg had a WDC for a father - no pressure or hunger there at all.......
:roll:

[Shadesy]

What a ****ing race.

Go Daniel!!

[BenM]

Bloody oath. SOOO glad I woke up at stupid o'clock to watch.

I know the Mercs had issues but it was just a brilliant drive.... Unbelievable. Think I probably woke my poor wife up when he got round Checo... Then when he passed Rosberg the whole neighbourhood heard.

[Mububban]

What a champ, and so humble.


Only 11 of the 22 cars finished the race.


Sounds like a demolition derby. Finished under safety car, was Vettel a chance to have made 2nd if not for that?

[Dotty]

If it was Webber, he would have collected that spinning car, and all the fanbois would be saying 'Another stroke of bad luck.'

Well done, Daniel.

[Bruce Dickinson]

made this 7 year old very happy this morning
31036

[chappy1970]

I hope that German turd was taking note, that's how to drive and win with dignity.

[Lagerlover]

Would still struggle to buy Maccas after midnight.

[Dotty]

Would still struggle to buy Maccas after midnight.
He needs at F1 car at Maccas, to get away from the randoms pestering him for burgers (only to be chased to the traffic lights upon exit, where random performs a fist shake).

[Hatchman]

I hope that German turd was taking note, that's how to drive and win with dignity.

Something so not right with these words in the same sentence.

[Lagerlover]

He needs at F1 car at Maccas, to get away from the randoms pestering him for burgers (only to be chased to the traffic lights upon exit, where random performs a fist shake).

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=kp&v=roKCZfE9JJ4

[oncewasagolfer]

Wow what a win my recording ran out with 15 laps to go and just found out Riciardo won. Have been trying to download the skysports coverage all day but Onehd are replaying the race at 10:30 tonight so will watch that:)

[Mububban]

Lewis Hamilton beat teammate Nico Rosberg to the fastest time in the second practice.


Hamilton completed his best lap on the 4.3km track in 1 minute, 9.542 seconds, topping Rosberg by 0.377. Ferrari’s Fernando Alonso was almost a second off the pace in third.


Vettel came sixth, more than 1.4 seconds behind Hamilton, while Ricciardo posted the eighth fastest time.

It's amazing just how dominant the Mercedes cars are

[KristianJ]

Well, 2 Merc powered cars on the front row, but they're both Williams!!

As Murray Walker might say, faaaaantastic!!!

[BenM]

Scintillating stuff; so happy to see someone other than Hamilton and Rosberg on the front row.

Lots of cars out of position tomorrow suggests it will be a corker of a race. Hard to believe Vettel and Hamilton are so far back.

[Mububban]

Should be a interesting race then.

Also read this. Just imagine how much more carnage Maldonado could cause if he gets more than one chance to do a demolition derby on takeoff:


…reports are suggesting that moves are afoot to scrap rolling restarts after Safety Car periods and replace them with standing restarts. Instead of the field continuing to roll in single file back to the start-finish line, next year’s restarts will see cars grind to a stop on the grid in their race order, before a full five-red-lights standing start.


It’s believed the standing restarts concept has already been approved during an F1 Commission meeting during the week, according to Autosport.


The move has come about through discussions between teams on how to improve the show of the sport. The idea of adopting standing starts after safety car periods came about as a way of increasing both the spectacle and the amount of overtaking.


The change is not yet official as it has to be passed by the FIA World Motor Sport Council, who will meet in Germany next week.

[BenM]

Oh please no. Nothing wrong with how it is now.

[coalesce]

What is the point in the safety car if they stop the cars after it? Should just red flag the race and be done with it

But I agree, leave it as it is

[BenM]

The biggest problem with the safety cars at the moment is how long they go for, not the restart.

Better off training the cleanup crews to work faster, giving better access to track where possible, and for the love of god remove that stupid rule where the back markers have to unlap themselves before the restart!

As it is now there is usually chances for overtaking at the restart; moving to a standing restart will just cause more accidents and therefore more safety cars IMHO.

[coalesce]

Maldonado can only crash and take people out once per race...

[Mububban]

Maldonado can only crash and take people out once per race...

My point was that if by some miracle he survives the first corner, this could give him more than one chance per race to try again :D

[coalesce]

My point was that if by some miracle he survives the first corner, this could give him more than one chance per race to try again :D

Fair point.

Yesterday's race was a bit of an anti-climax for me. On a "new" track and with people out of position, I thought it had the signs of being a good one, but with Vettel losing power on lap 1, and Hamilton making up most of the places he lost in qualifying in the first few turns, after that it was a procession again.

[rubin]

The biggest problem with the safety cars at the moment is how long they go for, not the restart.

Better off training the cleanup crews to work faster, giving better access to track where possible, and for the love of god remove that stupid rule where the back markers have to unlap themselves before the restart!

As it is now there is usually chances for overtaking at the restart; moving to a standing restart will just cause more accidents and therefore more safety cars IMHO.

The problem with the marshalls, clean-up crews etc, is that they are all local volunteers and the like. Not a part of F1 management or the business, or any of its owners. They probably don't want to spend too much in the way of training etc, when they only do it once a year (and many are one timers as well).

They could improve the way its done, but if you look at canada, with the amount debris, oil etc after the marussia incident, i don't know if they could have moved any quicker.

The unlapping part is better than leaving them in the midfield or at the front and ruining the re-start or someones race entirely. The guys on Sky/BBC have suggested they should just let them drop to the back, but Charlie Whiting has said they can't do that, as it screws up the timing and data.


Fair point.

Yesterday's race was a bit of an anti-climax for me. On a "new" track and with people out of position, I thought it had the signs of being a good one, but with Vettel losing power on lap 1, and Hamilton making up most of the places he lost in qualifying in the first few turns, after that it was a procession again.

Have to agree though - that was the worst race of the year. I got so bored with it, that by the second round of pitstops hit, I'd changed the channel.

[ZENNON]

I fell asleep :roll:

[KristianJ]

Bizarre Q1 at Silverstone with a bit of rain coming mid session...both Williams and both Ferraris haven't gone through.

[coalesce]

Bizarre Q1 at Silverstone with a bit of rain coming mid session...both Williams and both Ferraris haven't gone through.

Cheers for reminding me it was on :)

[KristianJ]

And rain popping up in Q3, but not enough for another Merc 1-2, it'd seem!

[coalesce]

That was an eventful first lap. Big shunt for Kimi!

[BenM]

Sure was - he was limping markedly when he got out so hope it's nothing serious.

Shame for the people that got good starts and the people like Massa who got taken out.

[coalesce]

I think they'll restart in the order they were. Weirdly they go from a standing start begging the safety car for 1 lap

[virge666]

Forty minutes to fix a three piece wall...

FFS...

[KristianJ]

Just delaying the inevitable...

[mrbluu]

Great to see Riccardo finish ahead of Vettel again, he is now 28points ahead of him in the stands.

It was shit the see Hamilton as the commentators were literally creaming themselves!!!

[mrbluu]

And the commentators even try to claim Riccardo as an honourary Brit cos he has been living there....

[BenM]

I noticed that - thought it was a bit harsh, pretty sure Ricciardo is more Aussie than Webber was due to Webber pursuing a career in Europe a bit earlier than Dan. Or maybe not. I don't know.

I did love the battle between Alonso and Vettel and the fact that Ricciardo extends his lead over both of them. Would love to see him stay third and finish 'best of the rest' in his first season in a competitive car - outperforming some very illustrious drivers including a 4 time world champ in the same equipment.

[ZENNON]

Yeah awesome quali! (and interesting race)

Go Dan!

Ferrari measured Kimi's impact at something like 47g's :O

[virge666]

i did love the battle between alonso and vettel and the fact that ricciardo extends his lead over both of them. Would love to see him stay third and finish 'best of the rest' in his first season in a competitive car - outperforming some very illustrious drivers including a 4 time world champ in the same equipment.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this !!!!!

[talbo]

I did love the battle between Alonso and Vettel and the fact that Ricciardo extends his lead over both of them. Would love to see him stay third and finish 'best of the rest' in his first season in a competitive car - outperforming some very illustrious drivers including a 4 time world champ in the same equipment.

I had always maintained that there were probably 15 guys that would or could've won WDC's in the RBR in the last 4 years. No doubting either that if RBR had Merc power this year they'd be in the same position they've been in for the last few seasons also.

[coalesce]

There's a school of thought that says that under the previous engine regulations with exhaust blown diffusers, the Red Bull was the car to have as it exploited the exhaust blowing better than any other car (despite being slower in a straight line). In hindsight, it appears that driving style was optimum for Vettel too, given that now that things have changed, Vettel is struggling to adapt. Also, Ricciardo has been used to driving a (comparative) dog of a car that didn't get the same benefit of such an effective exhaust blown diffuser, so its also less of an issue for him to adapt now they don't have it. You also have to remember that Vettel blew his previous teammate away in the same car, so I don't think you can say that it was all the car and that anyone would have won in it. More specifically, Webber didn't blow everyone in other teams away either.

One other driver I can think of where a change in driving style can transform them from also ran to world beater is Jenson Button. Look at him in the Brawn days - that car was perfect for him in terms of a smooth driving style and being able to use the competitive advantage in the best way - in a way that Barrichello couldn't in the same car. Now witness Button in the heap of shit that is McLaren...

I think the thing with judging the "best" drivers is being able to see that they extract the absolute most from whatever equipment they are in. When Schumacher first went to Ferrari, it was "undriveable" (according to Eddie Irvine). Look at Alonso in the Ferrari the last few seasons. Even Hamilton seems to be able to extract that little bit extract from a car (albeit that this season, he does have the best equipment). People don't judge Vettel in the same way because now is the first time they've really seen him in an uncompetitive car - but look at the battle with Alonso in the race just gone and tell me he is not a great driver.

[talbo]

I understand what you're saying but then I didn't think Mark was even close to the quickest guy out there unless the stars aligned themselves...

Vettel is a great driver without doubt but there are a heap of drivers that have been on he grid in the last few years that would've loved a chance at driving a Newey design. I also think that between 1992-2004 there could have been many drivers that were capable of winning the WDC had they had a seat at Williams or McLaren but we'll never know how good some of those cars really were because M Schumacher won titles in an era otherwise dominated by Newey designs. No real surprise when RBR started having success, only surprise to me is that it took as long as it did.

[coalesce]

The early 2000s wasn't a golden era of drivers in the same way that the current season has 3 standouts in Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel then a good second tier in Raikkonnen, Rosberg, and potentially Ricciardo.

The Ferrari became a good car around the 2000 season - prior to that, Hakkinen was winning everything for McLaren, and the Ferrari was crap. That coincided with some perhaps solid but less than stellar drivers having a regular race seat, e.g. Ralf Schumacher, Juan Pablo Montoya, David Coulthard, Heinz-Harald Frentzen, Jarno Trulli.

I think there's a bit of a cult around Newey, and whilst I'm certainly not saying he is crap, he does have a record of not being the fastest to respond to major regulation change. It happened in 1994 at Williams, and it has happened now at Red Bull. The McLaren designs he inherited were pretty good to start with and his later time there coincided with McLaren falling behind Ferrari/Schumacher.

My point is here that it is and always has been a combination of car, engine and driver that gets the job done in F1. You'd think a good driver could learn to squeeze the most out of a car, but equally a good design team (with the scope to do so and not hampered by being stuck with poor design choices made originally) would be trying to design their car to suit their driver. Having said that, you can still tell who the best drivers are, even if they aren't winning.

It will be interesting to see Honda come back in next season and what they can produce without the kind of restrictions the other engine suppliers have (I think only 48% of the engine spec can change - no idea how they measure that). Not sure the Mercedes engine dominance is a good thing (other than it has led to a mini-resurgence at Williams), but then the Renault has never been the most powerful engine and that hasn't stopped it before...

[talbo]

The way I see it, if it weren't for Schuey then Newey would've had another 5-6 titles. Schuey could've taken the title in 98 and if he didn't break his leg in 99 he would've had another. Then one could argue about 05/06 regardless Schuey was the only guy in that era to beat Neweys cars. I think the only time McLaren fell behind was in 2004 because I think they still had an advantage before this.

Even this year there are a pile of drivers who could win pole and races in the Mercedes car

[coalesce]

I take your point about this years Merc - as shown by both drivers being close in it this year.

For the Newey point, you are conveniently overlooking 2002 and 2004 where McLaren were at least the 3rd best team. In the other years in that era, generally only one of the McLaren cars was successful (usually Raikkonen) which might indicate that the driver was contributing more than it just being a good car. McLaren did not do team orders (well, not to the extent Ferrari did everything to prioritise Schuey) so that's not it. You could say the same thing about the Red Bull when Vettel won - Webber wasn't coming 2nd all the time. As I say, I'm not saying Newey is bad designer at all - I'm just saying there's a cult around him that implies he's some kind of superhuman.

[talbo]

Not conveniently forgetting, it was a long time ago...lol! I remember thinking Kimi was giving the Ferrari's a hard time in his McLaren. Ferrari and Schuey cop quite a lot of criticism in regards to team orders but it worked its way fair in the long run, even if Rubens chooses to only remember the famous Austrian GP. I don't think Newey is superhuman but he's clever and I think the difference between Vettel & Webber was more evident in race trim because of the obvious distance or number of laps the difference is calculated on. So many guys are extremely quick over a single lap but cannot always produce that consistency in race trim. This is what in my opinion separates to good and the great.

[KristianJ]

31649

I miss the old Hockenheim...:(

[talbo]

Same. I miss a lot of the classic european circuits!

[PeteyD]

The old one was great for TV, crap for being there as the passing was in the chicanes int the forest. Sad though. Like the complete Nurburgring :(

[gameboy]

hamilton must have angered the f1 gods - broken brakes last week, brakes/fire this week in qualy

[mrbluu]

Damn you exciting race, I was supposed to go to bed early......come on Riccardo!!!

[KristianJ]

Hungarian GPs are not supposed to be this way.

[mrbluu]

Hungarian GPs are not supposed to be this way. That's what I was thinking!!!!

[BenM]

Dan has the pace, if he can get past he can win this! Alonso may have to pit again too.

[mrbluu]

It will be great if Rosberg takes both Hamilton and Alonso!!! (No homo)

[PeteyD]

What a great race, and Ricciardo wins! Glad I stayed up to watch it.

[Wardy101]

Kid is one hell of a race car driver

[BenM]

I'd just about given up on him getting past Hamilton, then, wow. Just wow.

Great drive from Alonso on those tyres but it's easier to defend. Ricciardo proved, again, that he has world champ potential in a more competitive car.

[KristianJ]

Great stuff!! Some brilliant drives all around.

Although my digital reception went for a few mins and by the time I got to Tenplay, I just missed Ricciardo's move. :(

[mrbluu]

Great drive from Riccardo, the best GP I've seen in a long time!!!!

[virge666]

Best race i have watched for years.

It had everything, drama, strategy, skill, amazing driving, stupid mistakes, crashes, THE LOT

****ing spectacular !!!

[gameboy]

great result for dan though a little lucky with the timing of the safety car. great overtakes on alonso+hamilton. exciting race but would have been pretty dull without the rain and safety cars. very hard to overtake - rosberg couldn't get past the toro-rosso

[mrbluu]

Best race i have watched for years.

It had everything, drama, strategy, skill, amazing driving, stupid mistakes, crashes, THE LOT

****ing spectacular !!!


Only thing missing was Hamilton having a cry!!!

[coalesce]

great result for dan though a little lucky with the timing of the safety car. great overtakes on alonso+hamilton. exciting race but would have been pretty dull without the rain and safety cars. very hard to overtake - rosberg couldn't get past the toro-rosso

This. We got away with not having a boring race on a track that doesn't suit modern F1 cars due to rain and people crashing. Phew! :)

[oncewasagolfer]

Awesome race totally stoked with another Riccardo win that save from vettel on the pit wall was pretty impressive as well.

[gameboy]

this is a bit of could've/should've/would've but if dan got the points from mel and from the race his wheel fell off (malaysia?) he would be biting on hamilton's heels

[chappy1970]

Wonder what that pr!ck Vetel is thinking about Ricciardo now as the teams other (better) driver.
Horner must be hating (constructor points aside) seeing his pet project struggling so much.

[oncewasagolfer]

There was talk of vettel leaving red bull but can't see it with the success he has had with them.

[coalesce]

Never say never - if Red Bull don't produce the goods in terms of a car (which could happen with newey being less involved), he'll want to jump ship

[talbo]

Awesome race and result. Haven't seen that much action for some time. Now they got to fix that lack of noise and bring back some excitement!

[Wardy101]

Wonder how longuntl/if Ricciardo will win a world championship. The job he s doing in a sub-par car has been extraordinary nd he is making Vettell look very ordinary

[gameboy]

you can be an awesome driver twiddling thumbs for ages in the second best car. ask hamilton and alonso how much fun the past four years have been

[gameboy]

Max Verstappen is the new driver for Toro Rosso- shame for Jean Eric Vergne

[coalesce]

It is early days for the driver merry go round for next season. JEV may yet turn up somewhere else

[KristianJ]

From what I've read, I think STR only keep their drivers on for 3 years max. Vergne's been the only one to last that long though if my memory serves me correctly.

[gameboy]

yep, pretty much. get better and go up to redbull or gtfo. i'd be surprised if jev turned up elsewhere. not enough cash to be a pay driver and not quite fast enough to be a salary driver

[nadg63]

Just seen that Kobayashi is about to be given the elbow by Caterham, replaced by a german driver, Andre Lotterer.

[gameboy]

never heard of him (google says german le mans driver) 32 is pretty old to start again

[Ron Burgundy]

Max Verstappen is the new driver for Toro Rosso- shame for Jean Eric Vergne

The kid is 16. That's insane. I was trying to get my learners at 16 and next year he's going to be getting around in an F1 car.

[KristianJ]

Lotterer was in Formula 3000 years and years ago from memory. Seems like a rather random move.

Although in more pleasant news, I read that the Caterham will have a new nose. Anything would be an improvement, really!

[talbo]

Makes you wonder how some of these teams can afford to get around still!

[gameboy]

i don't think any of them make money per se. teams rely on sponsors pouring money in to give them access to a cool sport

[virge666]

A lot of the drivers bring cash with them in the form of sponsors.

Pay for a drive kind of thing.

$300 million a year will allow you to run an F1 team, middle of the pack team at that.

[talbo]

But even then, without ever winning any Constructors points how long can it go on for! Which I guess is why we've seen many small team come and go over the years.

[virge666]

But even then, without ever winning any Constructors points how long can it go on for! Which I guess is why we've seen many small team come and go over the years.

The billionaires that own the teams use it as a tax deduction and also a marketing tool.

Force India is a successful example and a few others aren't.

[talbo]

Even so, Force India have won some WCC points over the years which makes it a whole lot cheaper than for those that don't.

[BenM]

A lot of the drivers bring cash with them in the form of sponsors.

Pay for a drive kind of thing.

$300 million a year will allow you to run an F1 team, middle of the pack team at that.

Maldonado being a classic example of the negative aspects of such an arrangement!

[KristianJ]

Maldonado being a classic example of the negative aspects of such an arrangement!
And he's won as many GPs as Jean Alesi and Olivier Panis. Staggering...

[virge666]

Maldonado being a classic example of the negative aspects of such an arrangement!

Maldonado has so much money behind him, he can do whatever he likes...


And he's won as many GPs as Jean Alesi and Olivier Panis. Staggering...

Those two sort of kill him on points though.

[KristianJ]

Those two sort of kill him on points though.

Oh, of course. But in terms of being a fellow GP winner, it seems rather unfair (especially with Panis and his injury in Canada in 97) that those 2 only won once.

[gameboy]

you can be a good driver in a bad car and grind it out for points. or you can be a bad driver in an average car and bolster the carbon fibre recycling indutsry

[virge666]

you can be a good driver in a bad car and grind it out for points. or you can be a bad driver in an average car and bolster the carbon fibre recycling indutsry

clapping !

[gameboy]

Spa this weekend - always a great race to watch with lotsa overtaking. merc+williams for the podiums. maybe a force india

[virge666]

Spa this weekend - always a great race to watch with lotsa overtaking. merc+williams for the podiums. maybe a force india

Best. Track. Ever.

[PeteyD]

True. So true. Favorite race every year.

[BenM]

This was the track Webber pulled off that awesome pass on Alonso a couple of years ago wasn't it?

Should be a corker of a race.

[Ron Burgundy]

This was the track Webber pulled off that awesome pass on Alonso a couple of years ago wasn't it?

Should be a corker of a race.

It was. That move took massive balls and a lot of respect for Alonso's skill to know he wouldn't put him into the wall at 180mph. Got to love this track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sYtKMVwoMU

[BenM]

It was. That move took massive balls and a lot of respect for Alonso's skill to know he wouldn't put him into the wall at 180mph. Got to love this track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sYtKMVwoMU

Thought so. I have such a poor memory, I am amazed that some people can remember so much trivia and info about races gone by. I struggle to remember what happened last week.

[Ron Burgundy]

Thought so. I have such a poor memory, I am amazed that some people can remember so much trivia and info about races gone by. I struggle to remember what happened last week.I'm with you. My F1 trivia knowledge isn't great. I just remember watching this live and having the commentators lose their minds over how ballsy it was. They were talking about it on the bbc website for a few days afterwards too. Great move on a corner that's scary enough without trying to overtake someone.

[gameboy]

amazing they both didn't end up part of the scenery. redbull are nowhere this weekend. mercedes ftw and alonso looks strong too in practice

[talbo]

I'm a little surprised Alonso was that close to the merc powered cars!

[KristianJ]

you can be a good driver in a bad car and grind it out for points. or you can be a bad driver in an average car and bolster the carbon fibre recycling indutsry
When I think of the carbon fibre recycling industry I immediately remember the delightfully sodden Spa 98. The pile up heading out of La Source on the first lap, Coulthard shunted by Schumacher...

[nadg63]

When I think of the carbon fibre recycling industry I immediately remember the delightfully sodden Spa 98. The pile up heading out of La Source on the first lap, Coulthard shunted by Schumacher...

Yes, that was huge, bit's of car/carbon flying everywhere!

[talbo]

When I think of the carbon fibre recycling industry I immediately remember the delightfully sodden Spa 98. The pile up heading out of La Source on the first lap, Coulthard shunted by Schumacher...

Whilst about to be lapped by Schue, One of the great wet drives from Schue of all time up until that incident.

[nadg63]

Whilst about to be lapped by Schue, One of the great wet drives from Schue of all time up until that incident.

Wrong race Talbo, this happened on the very first lap, total carnage!