The difference between us and the Pro's ...

[Jarro]

thought some of you might like this ;)

http://www.golfdigest.com/features/index.ssf?/features/gd200403torreypines.html

[AndyP]

Obviously everything, but what came to mind for me was their ability to scramble for decent scores when they are struggling, that is, getting up and down, I guess.

[Jarro]

so their massive advantage off the tee didn't do anything for you ??

[3oneday]

Obviously everything, but what came to mind for me was their ability to scramble for decent scores when they are struggling, that is, getting up and down, I guess.with Jarro posting the subject, it didn't immediately jump out at me that it would be golf related....

:)

[goughy]

David Toms or Furyc are'nt long off the tee, but check their bank balances. They're in the 250 to 260mtr average, and considering the pga's fairways run like a green then they're probably even shorter than that in comparison.

[Jarro]

Goughy, David Toms was averaging over 315 yards last tournament he played in

[AndyP]

so their massive advantage off the tee didn't do anything for you ??
No. Size doesn't impress me. If they missed the fairway and were shorter they would still get their pars most of the time anyway.

[Eag's]

Very interesting article there Mark.
The biggest difference between them & us would be the mental side of the game. They can stay focussed for much longer periods of time and can turn it on & off at will.
The distance variances although extreme, are not really as important as learning to manage your way around a course. How many times have you smashed a drive right down the middle and still made double because of poor management or execution.

I for one would sacrifice 30m any day if I could gain 30%-50% more accuracy of the tee. I get tired of chipping out sideways all day and it puts you behind the eight ball from the get go.

The top players have very solid all round games, no weak links. At our level we have to work out what our weak links are and work very hard to improve them. This is something not many of us do, I know I don't but I am determined to rectify that this year :)

[Iain]

The group of amatuer's might have a low av handicap, but they must be getting on a bit. 230yd's (210m) is very short, I would think any male golfer under 40 should drive it longer than that, of course it's not going to be 300yd's, but saying it's only 220yd's is ridiculous.

Jarro, David Tom's only averaged 285 in 05, Hawaii, tends to make driving stat's look better due to the high winds and the way the course's play, hitting off high tee's etc.

[Grunt]

I looked at this and something that was brought to my attention before about US Handicapping came to mind. A friend once told me that the US system is more an honour system and that it normally gives a player a way lower handicap than they really require. Also they do not play much competition golf, more informal comps between mates in the group. So in effect if they are all under handicaped by a similar amount the better guy still wins. I guess it made me think that the figure might be a bit blown out by the fact that the Handicap range of above and below 10 might be closer to above and below 20 here in Oz

Would the figures be better if they did it with Aussie golfers with A,B & C grade handicap figures?

[Courty]

The group of amatuer's might have a low av handicap, but they must be getting on a bit. 230yd's (210m) is very short, I would think any male golfer under 40 should drive it longer than that, of course it's not going to be 300yd's, but saying it's only 220yd's is ridiculous.

I agree with what you are saying, but they are talking average driving distance. So if 2 holes are used for driving distance, it could go like this:

Hole 1: crushed one - 300 yards - centre fairway
Hole 2: cold top - 50 yards - rough

Average driving distance would be 175 yards with 50% accuracy.

With the handicap cross section they used, there is more than enough potential for topped drives and various other wild shots (blocks/ snap hooks/ rebounds off trees etc) so as an average driving distance, I would think they are right on the money.

:smt002

[Bruce]

US hcps are based on some sort of theoretical potential. They are expected to play to their hcp half the time. And then they have that weird slope thing.

[BrisVegas]

US hcps are based on some sort of theoretical potential. They are expected to play to their hcp half the time. And then they have that weird slope thing.

Their handicaps are "generally" accepted to be 1-2 shots lower than an equivalent in Australia. They take the best 10 scores out of the last 20 rounds to work it out.

Slope is just another measure of course difficulty, similar to our ACR. I'm not exactly sure on the relationship between slope and a course rating, but a standard course is meant to slope at 118. A tough course would be something like 130-140 and Bethpage Black would be like a 160+. It's simply a multiplier to work out how many shots over par you shoud expect to shoot, ie. 140/118 = 1.186. So if you are a 10 hcap, the real par for you on a 140 slope course would be 11.86 over par.

[andylo]

The differences I see from pro and us are: they can afford to practise all day, we can't. They have access to good couches regularly, we don't. They play for pay, we pay for play and they get tour equipment spec up for them, and we need to pay for the off the rack crap.

[Courty]

we need to pay for the off the rack crap.

Haha. This is coming from the biggest TOUR HO of them all... :mrgreen:

[AndyP]

The differences I see from pro and us are: they can afford to practise all day, we can't. They have access to good couches regularly, we don't. They play for pay, we pay for play and they get tour equipment spec up for them, and we need to pay for the off the rack crap.
Disagree.
They only have those things because they were good in the first place.

[andylo]

Ok... I add one more... they have given the chance to start in early stage and we don't

[andylo]

Haha. This is coming from the biggest TOUR HO of them all... :mrgreen:

I know :) :D

:lol:

[AndyP]

Ok... I add one more... they have given the chance to start in early stage and we don't
Didn't Greg Norman start golf when he was a teenager?

[andylo]

Yeah.. he is... did you and did you have to chance to commit to it if you started young? ;)

[AndyP]

Of course I could have had the chance, doesn't mean I took it.
However, coming from Hong Kong, you probably did not have that opportunity.

[BrisVegas]

Didn't Greg Norman start golf when he was a teenager?

Yeah i think Greg started off as a 17hcap (something I have in common with the legend!!), but he worked hard and got down to scratch within 2 years. I think Greg did this late in high School.

[AndyP]

Yeah i think Greg started off as a 17hcap (something I have in common with the legend!!), but he worked hard and got down to scratch within 2 years. I think Greg did this late in high School.
Thought it was something like that. That blows another of A-Lo's theories out of the water.

BTW my first handicap was 17 too.

[BrisVegas]

when I said "legend" Andy... I was referring to you of course.

[Courty]

BTW my first handicap was 17 too.

Me too, and 2 of my mates (at around 15 y.o.) One of them is now a club pro... Oh what could have been. :roll::-|

[BrisVegas]

Me too, and 2 of my mates (at around 15 y.o.) One of them is now a club pro... Oh what could have been. :roll::-|

hehe. I got my first hcap at about 15-16 too i think, as a Junior at City GC Toowoomba. There were already so many good golfers around Toowoomba by then, that I thought I'd never be good enough cause i started so late. The pro at City (Smithy) had offered me a traineeship at the end of school, which I thought about briefly. 15 years ago though, I thought that going to uni was a far smarter option.... :confused: these days, I dunno... i think I'd have been better off doing a trade in building or construction. That way I'd be retired by now and could afford to play all the golf I could want! :evil:

[andylo]

I believe if I am 15 or so years younger and given the opportunty I can get close to scatch too in 2 years.... maybe negative handicap. ;)

[BrisVegas]

I believe if I am 15 or so years younger and given the opportunty I can get close to scatch too in 2 years.... maybe negative handicap. ;)

"opportunity" eh?

do you mean things like, coaching, good equipment, regular practice, regular competition... lsn't that the opportunity you have right now??

I guess you're too old now eh. yeah, that must be it... :smt002

[andylo]

No, I don't. NONE OF ABOVE!

I need to pay a lot compare to the kids to get coaching. Good equipemnt? God know how much I already paid for. I don't get enough even practise and NEVER enough competition.

To me its very very hard to get those things. I don't care now. But in the future if any of my kid want to be a good golfer I will give everything I got to support him/her.

[Moe Norman]

my first handicap was 22 and I was in single figures within 8 months ;)

now I'm on my way back to 22 .1 at a time!

[Eag's]

Norman started playing at 16 and was banned from Virgina's practise range when he was about 18. He Would tare up huge amounts of turf in pratise sessions and fellow members would put in complaints.

[AndyP]

Were they complaining about Norman or the turf? :twisted:

[goughy]

my first handicap was 22 and I was in single figures within 8 months ;)

now I'm on my way back to 22 .1 at a time!

My first was 24, never got to single figures. And am now on my way back to 22 too. I'll race you.

I know it seems like I have a head start, but with the amount of golf you play compared to me you should catch me soon.

[Speirsy11]

The differences I see from pro and us are: they can afford to practise all day, we can't. They have access to good couches regularly, we don't. They play for pay, we pay for play and they get tour equipment spec up for them, and we need to pay for the off the rack crap.

Oh you can't be serious.

So what you are saying is, that the only thing that is different between the best players in the world and YOU is the opportunities that they had? If you could practice all day you could be on TOUR instead of a 25 Hcp? The only thing you had right in that whole post is that they pay for play, the rest is plain ignorant.

Have you ever even seen a pro hit it in person? Or chip and putt? The things they can do with a ball is amazing, and not something you can do just with a lot of practice. Either you have it or you don't, and no amount of work can get "it". If all it took was opportunity, then every rich kid in the states would be a PGA or ATF pro........It takes more then a strong mental game, they simply are wired better for golf then the rest of us. You can have someone as mentally tough and trained as Stuart Appleby, just as tall and just as strong with a very similar swing and Apples will hit it 100% better......They just have that intangible that makes them the elite of the elite. It exists in ever sport, golf included.

Go out and actually watch them on a course you can play like Coolum, then get out there the next day (Monday) and play the course (which will be set up 4-5 shots easier then it was for them) and have a go. Notice where they hit it to compared to where you do, then count your putts and up and down percentages..........You'll be embarrased by this post very quickly and will run back to your PC to edit it.

Speirsy

[BrisVegas]

ok, that gets my vote as post of the year. Nicely summed up Rob.

[andylo]

mate you don't even met me in person and how do you know I never been to watch them hit it in person?

I did watch these guys play in tour before and I did it few times. Unquestionable they are great players and very talented. But commenting someone is wrong without even knowing/seeing the person is a no no ;)

[markTHEblake]

Either you have it or you don't, and no amount of work can get "it".

Didnt some intelligent bloke also say this a couple of weeks ago?

I get what Andylo is saying, his arguement is a little flawed but he is on the right track

Imho, it doesnt take much skill or 'it' to get down to mid single figures. anyone with heaps of opportunity as he says would easily get to 5 or better - not pro level(if not there is something wrong with you - give up now). But there is a huge gap between 5 and say 1, and a massive gap between scratch and top 500 in the world. it takes the 'it' to get down to the low single figures and beyond.

[andylo]

I think we had this debate before and we started it again. We can't rewind the time so we will never have chance to prove who is right or wrong. I agree certain ppl will have some gift because our beloved brother up there loves to joke with us. But what I believe is these touches can be create by practising, and you can lost those gift by not practising.

So if I have given a chances and resoruces I know I can turn pro in golf. No matter what you say.

[Speirsy11]

I think we had this debate before and we started it again. We can't rewind the time so we will never have chance to prove who is right or wrong. I agree certain ppl will have some gift because our beloved brother up there loves to joke with us. But what I believe is these touches can be create by practising, and you can lost those gift by not practising.

So if I have given a chances and resoruces I know I can turn pro in golf. No matter what you say.

Absolute fantasy.

Blakey, I agree with you. With hard work, almost anyone could get down to a resonable Hcp, be that 5 or 7, whatever. That being said, the difference between a scratch player and a pro is MUCH larger then the difference between a 5 and scratch. I have a friend who plays off +1 and has won numerous big amateur events. He plays in Atlanta with several PGA Tour players and they give him 3 shots A SIDE........and usually smash him.

It takes so much more then just talent and timing to get it done at that level. You need to have both those things, as well as mental toughness, tenacity, and a desire that cannot be imagined without seeing it first-hand. Think how many GREAT players there are at every amateur event. In the states alone there must be at least 2000 kids good enough to be on scholarship to play golf, not to mention all the former all-americans, state players, etc.....Yet only 125 guys keep their cards every year........Guys who have been the best at every level they have ever competed on.......

Andy, you're NOT one of those guys, no matter how good you think you are, or how much potential was wasted by your circumstances.

[CobraSS]

I think we had this debate before and we started it again. We can't rewind the time so we will never have chance to prove who is right or wrong. I agree certain ppl will have some gift because our beloved brother up there loves to joke with us. But what I believe is these touches can be create by practising, and you can lost those gift by not practising.

So if I have given a chances and resoruces I know I can turn pro in golf. No matter what you say.

My first and last post in this thread, I have to disagree with the bold highlighted section of the post above, (not wanting to be offensive or anything, just my honest opinion)

why,

because I have seen you play..........

[Iain]

Nice Post Rob. Spot on.

Andy, I think you'd find that most Pro's, not long after they started playing were down to or near scratch. It's not just the practice and time spent that they get there, it's because, as Rob put's it, "they simply are wired better for golf then the rest of us." While it is possible you will get down to under 10 or even under 5, it's not likely that you would be able to turn Pro, even if you were given the oppotunity when you were younger, otherwise I think you're hcp would be a lot lower now than what it is.

I mean, look at Tiger, I know he started when he could barely walk, but do you think that ANY kid could become as good as Tiger with just a lot of practice??

Iain

[terryand]

Rob I have to disagree with you on some things. take John Senden,did nothing of note as an amateur,never made a state team and has keep his card on the PGA for 4 years now and with a great start this year, will probably make it 5.

Terry.

[Eag's]

Rob I have to disagree with you on some things. take John Senden,did nothing of note as an amateur,never made a state team and has keep his card on the PGA for 4 years now and with a great start this year, will probably make it 5.

Terry.

Nick Ohern would be another Tez, he didn't even make state sides as an amateur and is now in the world top 30

[andylo]

My first and last post in this thread, I have to disagree with the bold highlighted section of the post above, (not wanting to be offensive or anything, just my honest opinion)

why,

because I have seen you play..........

Hope its not your last read on this thread ;)

Well what you see is an end product of a very late started golfer who didn't start on the right track, built up enough bad habits, trying to correct them mid-way but getting of middle of nowhere (and still is). How can you see any light from this piece of wrecked sh1t?

All I can say is: when I started take up golf (AND IT'S WAY BEFORE I MEET ANY OF YOU GUYS!) I hanged out with the wrong people... which gave me endless amount of bad tips and left me loads of frustration. Since I meet you guys I am more on tracked, but its too late.... about 20 years too late anyway.

Do I still have the ego I had when I begin? NO
Do I still love the game? Hell yeah
Will I still buy tour equipment as mad as I used to? No.
Do I still dreaming turn pro at some stage? Hell NO!!

But as I say if time can rewind, and chances been given, can I turn Pro? I dunno because nothing we can do to prove it. Its a question with no answer. But I believe I CAN.

[Speirsy11]

Nick Ohern would be another Tez, he didn't even make state sides as an amateur and is now in the world top 30

Guys, I think we actually agree, what I'm saying is that starting young doesn;t mean much when you look at it.......Golf may actually be one game that you can start at late and still become very good at......Both those guys are excellent examples.....

Speirsy

[amanda]

But I believe I CAN.
That in itself is a great source of power. Besides having the natural ability to do something - you have to believe it is possible. :)

[andylo]

If you can't beat them, lead them.... ;)


Guys, I think we actually agree, what I'm saying is that starting young doesn;t mean much when you look at it.......Golf may actually be one game that you can start at late and still become very good at......Both those guys are excellent examples.....

Speirsy

[Speirsy11]

If you can't beat them, lead them.... ;)

Not sure I get it........

[AndyP]

I hope this doesn't turn into another "AndyLo can't play" thread, coz I'm a bit over it.

[andylo]

So do I...

and I have declared before and I do it again! I CAN'T PLAY!

[terryand]

Guys, I think we actually agree, what I'm saying is that starting young doesn;t mean much when you look at it.......Golf may actually be one game that you can start at late and still become very good at......Both those guys are excellent examples.....

Speirsy

The best example would have to be Scott Simpson.

Rob maybe your right and we do agree,maybe I just misinterpreted your orginal post through the spray:)

You also have the other side of the coin with all the guy that are in state teams from 15 and then can't make a razoo.

Terry.

[Speirsy11]

The best example would have to be Scott Simpson.

Rob maybe your right and we do agree,maybe I just misinterpreted your orginal post through the spray:)

You also have the other side of the coin with all the guy that are in state teams from 15 and then can't make a razoo.

Terry.

Didn't Larry Nelson also win 2 majors and only start playing at 21yrs old after getting back from war?

I've seen TONS of guys who were great at 15, 20 yrs old and can't make a dime.........It's such a different game at that level that success at the Jr and Am ranks means very little, unless you're talking about multiple National titles and the like ala TW......

[Jono]

That in itself is a great source of power. Besides having the natural ability to do something - you have to believe it is possible. :)

I think there is a difference between "I can", and "I think I could have given the right circumstances" ... :)

[markTHEblake]

The best example would have to be Scott Simpson.

hadnt heard his story, but i know Calvin Peete once a top 10'r in US circa 1980, only started playing golf in his 30's, and had a funny broken bent left arm as well. He was also famous for having diamonds in his teeth, and an extremely high GIR %. Oh yeah he was a black man too, but never noticed that.

Nick O'hern is a even better example of someone who struggled to find "it", only 7-8 years ago he was shooting 88's in pro events on a regular basis. A guy who used to play the tour then told me that Nick would play every tournament, and miss the cut and spend the entire weekend practising - grinding away and everyone laughed at him becuase it was obvious to them at the time that he was wasting his time.

[Toolish]

Andylo, how someone who plays off 20 can say, "I could have been a pro with the right circumstances" I don't know.

That said, what do you see as the limitations you have now? As far as I see for anyone who really wants it time is the main problem. Sure there is the cost of coaching, but really if you are dedicated enough you have a lesson or two, then spend your time grinding those changes in using a video camera or similar to get it right. Or put your swing on the net and you will get some good advice I am sure.

Back sort of on topic...

The thing is having the dedication to be out there on the range, or green, practising and getting it right. To me that is where pro's have it. I know it is their job, but through their development they all would have had to work at it!

[markTHEblake]

I've seen TONS of guys who were great at 15, 20 yrs old and can't make a dime.........


Good point.

I think Andy said he beleives he could become a pro. Mind you he didnt say he could become a good one!

[Speirsy11]

Good point.

I think Andy said he beleives he could become a pro. Mind you he didnt say he could become a good one!

Just saying that he could is an insult to the hundreds of real players who have tried since they were young kids to do it and haven't made it. I know dozens of guys who have given their all to try and make it throgh ONE stage of Q-School, on any TOUR, who would whip Andy 101 times out of 100. Saying that you'd make it if you only had _______________ (insert bullsh!t-excuse here) is disrespectful to each and every one of them.

Let me let some of you in on a secret.....You suck at golf, and no matter how much time you spend on it, or how much you would have spent on it if you had the time/money/motivation, you would NEVER have been a TOUR pro.

You can count me firmly in that group too Andy, I'm simply not good enough. Not now, not when I played off +1, and I was never going to be good enough. The difference between you and I is that I've played in a handful of events and have seen first hand what it takes to succeed at the lowest levels of TOUR life. My delusions were quickly replaced with a desire to study harder. Yours are fueled by a lack of insight into what it takes and how hard it truely is to do what they do.

Speirsy

[Grunt]

Well here is what I think about Pro's and how I think that if someone wants to do it they can put the effort in and achieve anything they want.

My best mate is a Pro and was a tour Pro on the Aussie tour, he has now cut back to being a club pro. When we were both at school playing golf for sport I would occasionally beat him, but due to the fact that I was playing golf more for fun that anything else as I was competitive in other sports mainly sailing I did not put in the effort to improve like he did. He practiced hard and became pro straight out of High school, he did his traineeship at the Lake GC here in Sydney. He is still fairly competitve on the small tour that club pro's play around on here in Sydney and a few years ago he won the Club Pro Championship here in NSW.

All I am saying that maybe if I put the effort into golf that I put into sailing at the time I may have been a very low mark golfer. I got to the top level in the class I was competing in and came 3rd in the Australian titles. I also skippered a yacht in the Police Games and won the Gold Medal, so competing at a top level was in my blood. I only stopped when work and other comittments caused me not to be able to put in the effort required to be competitive at the level I wanted so I retired.

Also in the recent past I have seen my golf game improve because I have now been putting a little effort into improving my game to the level that I feel comfortable with. I could probably improve more if I could justify spending the time on practice and more practice.

So in the end, if anyone wants to turn Pro and put the effort in that is required to come up with the results that will justify it, you have my full support and best of luck.

I had a few mottos when I was sailing, I know they are not original and are quite common but they really helped me stay on top.
Go Hard or Go Home
2nd is the 1st Loser
Why settle for 2nd when a few extra bucks will buy you 1st

[andylo]

As I said the reasons I suck at golf are due to multiple circumstances. If you want to catagorise youself not good enough, fine and I don't care. I am not sure if any of you tried hard enough to become one so I can't comment on that and I don't care neither.

I am suck at golf now and thats a fact. Feel free to fire on me (and the fact) but I am sure I know my own ability and weakness better than any of others so I am dare to say if I can do it all over again I can make it.

I don't think I am insulting the real players, I didn't do anything to insult them and all I am saying is I believe I can belong to that group if time can go back.

There's something I just don't quite understand. Why is the "fort of real players" has to be protected by bunch of people in the forum who aren't the pro neither? Am I stepped on your tail or something?

[Jono]

ALo, we're not trying to have a go at you. Rob probably has seen golf at the elite level more than most here.

IMO, there's no point saying "I could have done this if I started early enough". We'll never know.

Important thing is, "I can do this if I try hard enough". Or should it be "I know I can achieve this, and I WILL do what it takes to do it". Remember when I talked to you about getting down to 18? You shrugged it off and said that you are concentrating on Clo's game at the moment so you don't have the time to get down to 18. You didn't sound that interested in getting your handicap down.

You CAN get down to 18, Alo. Now DO IT. :mrgreen:

[amanda]

Great post Jono! Clo will figure out her own game - she's getting lessons (as part of your deal with Jono) and she seems like she has passion.

You deserve to focus your time and energy on getting to 18. You are worth it - believe in yourself (coz I do :))

[andylo]

Nah... forget about my handicap. I am over it. Nowadays I am more concentrating on getting people into the game rather than my own game. I just do what I want to do and what is good for the game itself. Trying to get more people in is a good thing to do. I think it would help to discover more talented ppl into the game and in long run it will increase the general skill level of the game itself.

Beside getting 18 or even lower means nothing more meaningful than "I can make bogey all 18 hole in general"... it doesn't do any good to anybody.

[peter_rs]

alo,

I mean this in a nice way bring back the old alo.

What’s the point of introducing others to the game if you don't play it with passion.

Its a good goal to introduce others but they have to see the joy (and challenge) it has brought you.

Alo and an 18 hcp means you have improved something and you are better for it.

The real difference better pro's and us (forget length)
-Putting who on ozgolf averages sub 30 putts ever round. With my current avg of 36 I’m giving someone who can avg 28, 8 shots on avg during a round.
-Mental sides-including course management.
-A repeatable swing that they know inside out and the time on the range to make it work.
-Oh and the "it" factor some call talent. Not every pro has the same it factor some have great short games (steve) others plot around a course (goose), some have raw power (bubba). Where they don’t have “it” they have to work dam hard to be as good as others. Some guys are lucky and have it all (tiger), well for at least a period.

Take Rowan Beste (a pro on the minor tours) he doesn’t have it in any area he admits it but he works hard at times 12 hours a day and has the passion to try and be the best. And has come of his best year yet. For him his it is his passion

[AndyP]

We could all learn from you A-Lo, take it that extra step and quit this stupid game....

[andylo]

Up yours P :p

I am not considering to quit the game in any time soon so don't get me wrong. But I would say at this very stage I don't really want to concentrate on my own game's skill level.

[Jono]

Up yours P :p

I am not considering to quit the game in any time soon so don't get me wrong. But I would say at this very stage I don't really want to concentrate on my own game's skill level.

You mean you are happy to plateau on your current handicap? :twisted:

Bogey golf is a good goal for you to have. It means that you no longer can afford to blow out on a hole, and if you do, you have the self control to erase it out of your mind and make a few pars. 18 handicap is nothing to laugh at, especially if you haven't achieved it yet.

I know you are doing it "your style", but hurry up and get down to 18. When you take this long to get down to 18, how can anybody take you seriously when you say stuff like "I could have been a pro if I started early enough?" :smt102

[andylo]

I know you are doing it "your style", but hurry up and get down to 18. When you take this long to get down to 18, how can anybody take you seriously when you say stuff like "I could have been a pro if I started early enough?" :smt102

Point taken Jono :) Will work on it for sure but really... a bit later. Clo and couple of other new to golf friends needs my time (that I used to invest on my own game) more than my handicap at the moment.

[AndyP]

Up yours P :p

I am not considering to quit the game in any time soon so don't get me wrong. But I would say at this very stage I don't really want to concentrate on my own game's skill level.
I didn't say you were. I said we all should.

Why do all these people need your time? Are you coaching them?

[andylo]

nah... they hire their own coach... I was just listening. Then when they are practising I just keep remind them what they have been taught and let them in-grained what they have learn a lot quicker.

[Trung]

something about "Golf Coaches"

If personal coaches are good enough to teach...... why are they not playing on the Tour for bigger bucks???

No matter how much you know and swing.. if you don't have it, you don't have it.... Give it up.. :mrgreen:

[Toolish]

Alo,

You say you could have been pro...but the circumstances were wrong..

Now you cant get to 18, because others need your attention...

Maybe a lack of long term drive and commitment are the issue, or it is not a priority...which I find hard to believe, anyone who calls themself a golfer wants a lower handicap (some are just scared to admit it incase they fail).

We can all push ourselves a bit for a while...but to be good...really good...you need to push yourself a lot for a long time and really want it!

[amanda]

nah... they hire their own coach... I was just listening. Then when they are practising I just keep remind them what they have been taught and let them in-grained what they have learn a lot quicker.

andy - let them find their own path - you learn best from your own mistakes - not people telling you mistakes they have made.

chase your dream! :smt023

[brad]

andy - let them find their own path - you learn best from your own mistakes - not people telling you mistakes they have made.

chase your dream! :smt023

Couldn't agree more. :-D ALO I've been on your side of the coin, eventually you will get the drive back and want it. It'll happen - believe.

[CobraSS]

Just saying that he could is an insult to the hundreds of real players who have tried since they were young kids to do it and haven't made it. I know dozens of guys who have given their all to try and make it throgh ONE stage of Q-School, on any TOUR, who would whip Andy 101 times out of 100. Saying that you'd make it if you only had _______________ (insert bullsh!t-excuse here) is disrespectful to each and every one of them.

Let me let some of you in on a secret.....You suck at golf, and no matter how much time you spend on it, or how much you would have spent on it if you had the time/money/motivation, you would NEVER have been a TOUR pro.

You can count me firmly in that group too Andy, I'm simply not good enough. Not now, not when I played off +1, and I was never going to be good enough. The difference between you and I is that I've played in a handful of events and have seen first hand what it takes to succeed at the lowest levels of TOUR life. My delusions were quickly replaced with a desire to study harder. Yours are fueled by a lack of insight into what it takes and how hard it truely is to do what they do.

Speirsy


what he said

[benstone]

In terms of what makes a Pro rather than a good golfer, I would say that a huge part of it is the mental game.

A friend of mine is an excellent golfer, he played on the mini tours in the US and some competitions in Asia. He told me that the reason he gave up was that he couldn't handle the pressure. I have played with him when he beat his friend by a couple of strokes; his friend is a European Tour player who has played in the Ryder Cup. He has also beaten Thomas Levet at the same course. There is no doubt he can play, but wasn't able to gain that elusive mental toughness that you need to play for a living.

There is no doubt that the gulf between handicap golfers and the pro's is huge when looking at stats such as driving distance/accuracy/GIR, but in order to really make it, you need to be able to put it all together over 4 rounds in tournament conditions. If you can't play well in the weekly comp at your club, imagine what it must be like scrapping to make the cut in order to cover your expenses, let alone actually make some money. I don't doubt I would be a better golfer now if I had taken up the game earlier, practiced hard and tested myself in tournaments, but I don't think for one minute that I have what it takes to become a touring Pro.

[brad]

One excellent post there. Practically from the horses mouth. :)