Too much spin

[ozbrother]

G'day ozgolfers

Apologies if this subject has been done to death, but like many, I love to tinker with my set up and at the moment the driver is the issue.

Current driver is 910 D2 9.5 (set to A1) with an Aldila Trinity 65 S shaft (from Jado). I believe these are Callaway stock with Razr fit / Extreme. Looking at shaft charts they seem to be Mid launch and spin. A recent go on a launch monitor showed this set-up was spinning too much for me at around 3500-3700rpm, launching at about 15*. Driver ss around 94-97mph, so not huge.

I recognise that the 910 D2 is considered to be a high launching head, so I guess what I'm asking is...do I continue mucking around with shaft options?? Maybe lower spin...but I'm not crazy about 70+ gram shafts. Or do I consider the D3 head?? Or do I try to match a suitable Callaway head with the Trinity shaft. A pro also suggested that the ball choice was crucial, so a lower spinning ball will be a definite.

Considering a full driver fit-out but am baulking at paying the big bucks for the latest kit. Looking for suggestions at this stage...

Cheers

[hocko]

Buy a JDM driver head....they don't spin at all.

[mrbluu]

Hocko do happen to know if anyone is selling JDM stuff???

[hocko]

I might ;)

[Courty]

Tee the ball higher & hit it on the upswing.

[mrbluu]

Tee the ball higher & hit it on the upswing. That's boring and not as fun as buying stuff..

[Courty]

That's boring and not as fun as buying stuff..

Oh sorry. I'll get back in my box. ;)

[8081travis]

I was having similar problems moved to 8.5 D3 life changing!

[davidw88]

Get a Tour Spec Speeder and put in it, will kill the spin

[TheNuclearOne]

Something more tip stiff would probably help over the Trinity, most certainly if you have a later release. With any luck you have a mate with a tipped up Ahina or something. A 910D3 even with the stock 7C3 should also improve things. Those figures are quite reasonable considering what you are hitting, you should have very little problem getting them down. There are loads of lower spinning heads and shafts if it comes to the crunch, and it's not like you're spinning it in the 5000's. If you were you'd have to look at the swing, not overly so here.

[ozbrother]

The deeper face D3 really makes a difference??

[timah!]

Yeah, it knocked a few hundred RPM off me...

[virge666]

G'day ozgolfers

Considering a full driver fit-out but am baulking at paying the big bucks for the latest kit. Looking for suggestions at this stage...

Cheers

What ball speed and launch angle did you have ?

Also what AOA did you have ?

[ozbrother]

What ball speed and launch angle did you have ?

Also what AOA did you have ?

Ball speed 140mph / launching at 15*.

Angle of attack not measured this time, but between 1 and 2* last year.

[razaar]

If it is suggestions you are looking for...check that your elbows are not separating throughout the swing. When they separate the clubface opens at impact and beyond, when it should be closed at impact and open beyond. Controlling the clubface is the art of golf. Best to invest your time and money in your swing.

[ozbrother]

Cheers Razaar - appreciate the thought. Will have a look at elbows during swing.

I haven't been ignoring the swing (or the truth) and have had a few lessons of late. Working on a few things...Just trying to bring driver spin rate down.

[ozbrother]

After a range session tonight, thinking about the D3 head.

I'll let you know if it helps, cheers.

[virge666]

Ball speed 140mph / launching at 15*.

Angle of attack not measured this time, but between 1 and 2* last year.

OK - so you have a 90-95 clubhead speed and your launching at 15 degrees.

Question 1 : What kind of spin rate do you want...
Question 2 : What spin rate is optimum for your ball speed...
Question 3 : What ball are you using...

Answer these questions and you might get somewhere.

[virge666]

After a range session tonight, thinking about the D3 head.

I'll let you know if it helps, cheers.

I really wouldnt do that, the last thing you need to do is lower your spin rate.

[ozbrother]

Is that the last thing I need when I'm hitting high spinning drives (around 3600rpm). I use a Pro V1x. Clubhead speed 95 +. I know the formula doesn't make for bombs, just trying to work out how to attack the problem.

Are you saying that spin rate is OK with my ball speed? There just doesn't seem to be enough go-forward. Don't know what my optimum spin rate is, but I was advised that bringing it down would help (local pro). If you think I'm having myself on, please tell me. I can handle it.

[virge666]

Are you saying that spin rate is OK with my ball speed? There just doesn't seem to be enough go-forward. Don't know what my optimum spin rate is, but I was advised that bringing it down would help (local pro). If you think I'm having myself on, please tell me. I can handle it.

Look at it logically.

You have a 140 ball speed, which is regular flex territory.

You are launching at 15 degrees with is pretty high for a 9.5 degree head set at A1. So you are adding at least 4 degrees at impact and the shaft and head will add another 2 or there abouts. But the killer is the 3500rpm spin rate... the only way you would get this is if you are breaking down a lot through impact or flipping as people call it. This adds loft and spin.

But anyways - you need around 3500rpm at your ball speed to keep the ball in the air. If you had a 160mph ball speed, then you would need to lower your spin rate, but at 140mph, anything between 3300 and 3600 is ideal. if you lower your spin rate, you will lose distance.

So with your present swing mechanics - you are setup perfectly. I would switch balls to get more ball speed to something like a NXT tour or a Srixon QStar. That would help more than the futile task you have set yourself above.

Next up is a few lessons on how to rotate your left wrist through impact.

Enjoy.

[TheNuclearOne]

At his ball speed assuming say a level AoA he wants very close to the 2500mark. Launch angle can also afford to drop. At 3500 he's undoubtably giving up distance. If he really is at +1-2* AoA he can drop a little more spin again. In the words of the infamous BSG, he's leaving yards on the table LOL

Shaft flex at 95mph will hugely depend on load and transition. A Trinity 65 just isn't that stiff.

[ozbrother]

Ok thanks - looks like I was having myself on.

Recent lessons have things moving in the right direction, guess I'll continue down that road. That and a golf ball revisit.

For info, previous shaft was a reg RIP and it felt sh!thouse.

Wow, thought I could handle it...:?

[ozbrother]

Appreciate the feedback!!

[virge666]

At his ball speed assuming say a level AoA he wants very close to the 2500mark. Launch angle can also afford to drop. At 3500 he's undoubtably giving up distance. If he really is at +1-2* AoA he can drop a little more spin again. In the words of the infamous BSG, he's leaving yards on the table LOL

Shaft flex at 95mph will hugely depend on load and transition. A Trinity 65 just isn't that stiff.

I am with you mate - it is more how he is getting a 9.5 degree head launching at 15 degrees with such a low swing speed that really has to be sorted.

1.4 smash factor also doesn't help.

There has to be a few things there.

For the record... My trackman says 140 ball speed, optimum is 14-15 degrees at 3300-3600rpm. That is at 70 degrees F on a still day...

[Steve57]

Ok thanks - looks like I was having myself on. <br>
<br>
Recent lessons have things moving in the right direction, guess I'll continue down that road. That and a golf ball revisit.<br>
<br>
For info, previous shaft was a reg RIP and it felt sh!thouse.<br>
<br>
Wow, thought I could handle it...<img src="images/smilies/icon_confused.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Confused" smilieid="20" class="inlineimg"> I have a 10,.5* D3 if you change your mind or if your in Brisbane you can try it if you like.

[TheNuclearOne]

.

[TheNuclearOne]

I am with you mate - it is more how he is getting a 9.5 degree head launching at 15 degrees with such a low swing speed that really has to be sorted.

1.4 smash factor also doesn't help.

There has to be a few things there.

For the record... My trackman says 140 ball speed, optimum is 14-15 degrees at 3300-3600rpm. That is at 70 degrees F on a still day...

Flat figures for 140 published this year are looking for 10.5* at 2565rpm at 0* AoA. His averaged out smash factor is closer to 1.46 - 1.47 which is fine. Woods hovered around 1.48 last year.

[virge666]

Flat figures for 140 published this year are looking for 10.5* at 2565rpm at 0* AoA. His averaged out smash factor is closer to 1.46 - 1.47 which is fine. Woods hovered around 1.48 last year.

Sorry... Did I read it wrong...

I thought he had a launch of 15 degrees...

[ozbrother]

So how do I get those yards off the table?? Is it AoA that needs to be addressed??

If the 'trackman' is saying that, then I guess I'm maxed out with the way I swing it now.

[TheNuclearOne]

Sorry... Did I read it wrong...

I thought he had a launch of 15 degrees...

I'm talking ideal figures for him, what are you talking?

You stated


Virge - My trackman says 140 ball speed, optimum is 14-15 degrees at 3300-3600rpm.

You consider that optimum? It's not even close.

[ozbrother]

I have a 10,.5* D3 if you change your mind or if your in Brisbane you can try it if you like.

Cheers - will get back to you.

[ozbrother]

Smash factor a year ago was 1.46.

[virge666]

I'm talking ideal figures for him, what are you talking?

You stated



You consider that optimum? It's not even close.

Where are you getting your optimum figures from..

I have never heard a 95mph swing should be launched at 10.5 and 2500 rpm... I my charts that is 110 mph territory.

Where is Jono when you need him...

[virge666]

OK, I must be missing something.

15 degree @ 3500 is the top one. 10.5 for 2550 is the bottom one. I get 12 yards more @ 15 & 3500

26461

26462

[ozbrother]

What if the AoA for the first one is 1.9*?? Is that too flat for maximum carry??

[virge666]

What if the AoA for the first one is 1.9*?? Is that too flat for maximum carry??

9.5 head launching @ 15 degree with a 140 ball speed means you don't have a AoA of 1.9, unless you are flipping like mad through impact.

You need to work out why you are adding so much loft at impact... that is the question that needs to be solved.

Right now - your specs are as good as they are going to get.

What do you play off ?

[ozbrother]

7....must be flipping like mad.

[hocko]

Ball speed 140mph / launching at 15*.

Angle of attack not measured this time, but between 1 and 2* last year.
Forgive me Virge but let's say the launch is 15* and attack angle is 2* with a 9.5* head, this could simply be shaft lean issue at address and a non transfer of weight to the front foot?
I am not sure what everyone else's stats are but my AoA is -3.2* average but my address shaft lean is + 3.5*

[virge666]

Forgive me Virge but let's say the launch is 15* and attack angle is 2* with a 9.5* head, this could simply be shaft lean issue at address and a non transfer of weight to the front foot?
I am not sure what everyone else's stats are but my AoA is -3.2* average but my address shaft lean is + 3.5*

yep could be - but i am just running of the numbers... hence the phrase you just have to find out why.

The only way he can make a 9.5 D2 head with a stiff shaft, as TNO says, not that stiff, but, to get that combo 6 degrees up, is a technique thing.

If he had good technique, you could stick him in a REG V2 with an 11.5 head, or an AXIV or some such other counter-balanced shaft for a few extra MPH. Probably also be a lot straighter as a by product.

I really think that Spin rate is the least of his issues.

[ozbrother]

He's listening

[razaar]

Cheers Razaar - appreciate the thought. Will have a look at elbows during swing.

I haven't been ignoring the swing (or the truth) and have had a few lessons of late. Working on a few things...Just trying to bring driver spin rate down.
It is not an easy thing to look at unless you know what to look for. Check your right elbow half way into the backswing. It should be held into the right side and pointing down with pressure building in the right bicep and right shoulder. The rest of backswing is completed by the turning of the upper back/ shoulder unit. It can be an uncomfortable feeling until it becomes the norm. The ideal is for both elbows to be tied together during the downswing. For this to happen the feeling is that the right elbow is trying to touch the left elbow. It needs to be a conscious effort until it becomes habit.

A flip can be the result of an unconscious effort to stop the left wrist at the ball to allow the right elbow that has been left behind to catch up. When this occurs the swing arc at the bottom is shortened instead of being lengthened and flatter past the ball. Virge referred in an earlier learning to rotate the left wrist past impact. This is how we achieve a flatter and longer swing arc past the ball with the added benefit of keeping the loft down. A shoter and steeper post arc has the loft increasing past the ball. If the face is opened at impact then expect more loft at the point of separation.

I hope that explains it.

[TheNuclearOne]

Where are you getting your optimum figures from..

I have never heard a 95mph swing should be launched at 10.5 and 2500 rpm... I my charts that is 110 mph territory.

Where is Jono when you need him...

This is the latest and greatest as put forward by one of the top club fitters in the world this year

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/5003/vy8a.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/vy8a.png/)

[TheNuclearOne]

OK, I must be missing something.

15 degree @ 3500 is the top one. 10.5 for 2550 is the bottom one. I get 12 yards more @ 15 & 3500

26461

26462

Are you seriously optimizing for carry distance?!? Little wonder you got the figures you did. That's not close to optimised. A good rule of thumb is to find the ideal launch angle for carry then back off 2 degree's.

Look at your angle of descent, not good.

[virge666]

Wow... that is so different to my charts.

Like not even close.

[TheNuclearOne]

Wow... that is so different to my charts.

Like not even close.

A big part of that is you are optimizing totally for carry. These figures are for firm fairways condusive to roll, but not concrete either. Your figures for optimal carry are quite reasonable, tho launch can still be dropped a couple.

[hocko]

OK, I must be missing something.

15 degree @ 3500 is the top one. 10.5 for 2550 is the bottom one. I get 12 yards more @ 15 & 3500

26461

26462

Higher launch,more spin = longer hang time?

[virge666]

Higher launch,more spin = longer hang time?

When you have a low swing speed you need the spin to be high enough to provide lift to keep it up in the air.

[TheNuclearOne]

Higher launch,more spin = longer hang time?

Yep, with less rollout and a yard chewing angle of descent. The shot is also belted around easier by any wind.

[Pirelli]

It's a bit of a compromise I guess. I'd prefer to lean towards carry as it lets you fly over fairway bunkers and avoid having the ball bounce and run into the rough which it would be prone to do with the 50 yards of roll that chart is suggesting!

[Hatchman]

Lower flight and more roll doesn't work well for carrying doglegs.

There's a hole on my course where I can cut the corner by taking on the trees but a mate of mine who hits it about 10m past me off the tee has to play to the corner due to his lower flight and roll. Cut the corner and its a wedge or less in. Play to the corner and you can be hitting any thing from 8-6 iron depending on which side of the fair way your on. Give me the carry any day.

[hocko]

Yep, with less rollout and a yard chewing angle of descent. The shot is also belted around easier by any wind.

Geez, you can't have everything! ;)

[TheNuclearOne]

There's happy mediums tho ;)

A good enough player can up the launch angle heaps when needed.

[ozbrother]

Holding off on the equipment search and putting some cash into lessons to solve the problem...let you know how it goes.