Iron Shaft Suggestion

[Ducky]

I originally posted this on GolfWRX, as I didn't want to bother the kind folks at OzGolf with my first world problems. However, I am looking for a second opinion, and I know there are quite a few OzGolf members who know their stuff.

I'm currently using True Temper Dynamic Gold X100 (.370) shafts in a set of component cavity back irons, but I'm unhappy with the performance. The ball flight tends to balloon (resulting in poor performance during windy conditions) and the backspin generated on full shots into greens is excessive on 6-iron and below (even when hitting a draw). Admittedly, it could be the ball (which is typically a Titleist Pro V1 or Srixon Z-Star), but I'd rather not change the ball as I prefer it for pitching, chipping, and putting. It could also be the cavity back irons, which I am going to be switching out for Ping S58 irons or Wishon 555M irons (I haven't yet decided). However, I've convinced myself that it's probably the shaft (i.e. True Temper Dynamic Gold X100).

At this point, I should probably share some swing videos (which can be seen in this thread (http://www.ozgolf.net/showthread.php/24413-Slow-motion-train-wreck...)), which may give you a better idea of my tempo, transition, etc.

I've been on Trackman briefly during a Titleist fitting (approximately 2½ years ago), but didn't pay attention to the spin numbers, as I was unsure what was optimal. The only statistics I can vaguely remember are the swing speeds (approximately 120MPH with driver and 95MPH with 5-iron). Ironically, the Titleist fitter suggested the True Temper Dynamic Gold X100 shaft with 1" additional length in the Titleist CB/MB irons. I ended up sitting on the suggestion, as I wasn't convinced it was correct (due to windless conditions and the use of worn range balls during the fitting). At this time, I don't believe the KBS shafts were an option (at least, they weren't mentioned by the Titleist fitter).

Anyway, moving on. On impulse, I purchased a set of FST Pro 125 X shafts, hoping they would be a decent (and obviously cheaper) alternative to the KBS shafts. However, after I trimmed and prepped the tips, I started doing further research and discovered that many people believed the FST Pro 125 X shaft played soft/weak. Due to this, I didn't install them and — yet again — considered my options.

Currently, I'm torn between trying the FST Pro 125 X shafts (as they seem to be hard to resell here in Australia anyway) or splurging on the KBS C-Taper shafts (and then trying to determine if S+ or X is the correct flex). The members from GolfWRX suggested to persist with the True Temper Dynamic Gold X100 (or X200), but with the taper tip .355 version (as opposed to the parallel tip .370 version), as it plays firmer/stronger. There was also some uncertainty (on my behalf) as to whether the KBS C-Taper spins more (or less) than the True Temper Dynamic Gold. According to the Titleist shaft chart, the KBS C-Taper spins more, but according to player reports (based on launch monitor statistics), the KBS C-Taper spins less.

What do you guys think?

Apologies for the long-winded post!

[hocko]

It's your swing, and I don't mean to sound rude. I have very similar numbers and use the same shafts. I have tried just about every shaft out there and have found the best to be tour issue DG X100 or TT tour concept X1's. anything flighted will accentuate the problem. What I did was use Tour issue X100's, strengthen my lofts by 1* and used Titleist NXT balls.

[markTHEblake]

that many people believed the FST Pro 125 X shaft played soft/weak.

I was using FST Pro 115 S for about 4 years or so, got them when they first came out. I cant remember exactly but my clubfitter said that they stacked up very well, I beleive he meant both consistency and how the measured up to expected flex and MOI.

(as they seem to be hard to resell here in Australia anyway

Certainly they are quiet achievers, but surely you only paid about $10 a shaft for them, but I understand your point, anyone who is playing X flex is going to struggle with peer pressure if they dont have a big label on them. I never put the labels on mine and just told people that they were niche Japanese shafts and they would swoon over them. Cost me only $6 a shaft.

[Aussielongdriver]

i have similar problems and did a fitting with Callaway the other day and was told C-Tapers are the best option to lower flight and spin

[virge666]

Are you still playing 1" over ?

[Ducky]

It's your swing, and I don't mean to sound rude. I have very similar numbers and use the same shafts. I have tried just about every shaft out there and have found the best to be tour issue DG X100 or TT tour concept X1's.
I appreciate the suggestions, thanks! Although, I don't think I'd be willing to change to a harder ball like the Titleist NXT (the Titleist Pro V1x might be the limit).



Certainly they are quiet achievers, but surely you only paid about $10 a shaft for them, but I understand your point, anyone who is playing X flex is going to struggle with peer pressure if they dont have a big label on them.
You're right, I ended up paying $11 per shaft from memory. So it's not a massive investment, but still, that's $121 (as I purchased 11 of them) that could have gone towards purchasing the KBS C-Tapers. I believe the FST Pro 125 X was claimed to play similarly to a True Temper Dynamic Gold S300. So it's certainly not the softest shaft ever, but it's probably not appropriate for my situation. I'm much the same, I prefer the appearance of no shaft bands, so it's a bit disappointing that newer steel shafts (such as the Project X PXI) have them printed on.


i have similar problems and did a fitting with Callaway the other day and was told C-Tapers are the best option to lower flight and spin
Thanks for letting me know. What were your numbers and which flex was recommended?


Are you still playing 1" over ?
Preferably, yes. My current irons are +0.5" and 3º upright, but +1.0" and 2º upright feels more comfortable (as I think I might have short t-rex arms).

[rubin]

For what it's worth, I have numbers a little higher than yours, and in general load the shaft up a fair bit, and had no issues with the KBS in x (which is essentially the fst). I have the pxi now in 6.5 which play a little stiffer to flex IMO, with the shaft band down.

IMO, the KBS (and fst for that matter) feel softer because they are a very smooth shaft, not boardy like a px/pxi. From my experience, don't take that as playing softer.

[davepuppies]

For what it's worth, I have numbers a little higher than yours, and in general load the shaft up a fair bit, and had no issues with the KBS in x (which is essentially the fst). I have the pxi now in 6.5 which play a little stiffer to flex IMO, with the shaft band down.

IMO, the KBS (and fst for that matter) feel softer because they are a very smooth shaft, not boardy like a px/pxi. From my experience, don't take that as playing softer.

Hi Rubin,

Your driver swing speed is higher than 120mph?

What is it?

Are you a big guy, or just very efficient with your club/ body?

[hocko]

For what it's worth, I have numbers a little higher than yours, and in general load the shaft up a fair bit, and had no issues with the KBS in x (which is essentially the fst). I have the pxi now in 6.5 which play a little stiffer to flex IMO, with the shaft band down.

IMO, the KBS (and fst for that matter) feel softer because they are a very smooth shaft, not boardy like a px/pxi. From my experience, don't take that as playing softer.


Hi Rubin,

Your driver swing speed is higher than 120mph?

What is it?

Are you a big guy, or just very efficient with your club/ body?

Oh no....please don't.

[rubin]

Oh no....please don't.

im not doing this again.

[Yossarian]

Hi Rubin,

Your driver swing speed is higher than 120mph?

What is it?

Are you a big guy, or just very efficient with your club/ body?

It is all here baby!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EkmsSr_aVM8

[Johnny Canuck]

This thread has potential!

[Tomson]

This thread has potential!

It sure does ;)

[davepuppies]

im not doing this again.

Sorry, have I hit on a raw nerve that was previously discussed?

It was a honest question, not intended to stir anyone. Let it go through to the wicket keeper if it will cause problems.

[hocko]

Sorry, have I hit on a raw nerve that was previously discussed?

It was a honest question, not intended to stir anyone. Let it go through to the wicket keeper if it will cause problems.
No raw nerves mate, just taking the P out of rubes.

[wizard_of_oz]

Ducky...why not try installing one of the FST Pro shafts in the 7 iron and see how it goes compared to your current flight? If it works, then it works, problem solved :)

[rubin]

Sorry, have I hit on a raw nerve that was previously discussed?

It was a honest question, not intended to stir anyone. Let it go through to the wicket keeper if it will cause problems.

i am normally happy to answer, i just cant be bothered with the BS that normally follows.


No raw nerves mate, just taking the P out of rubes.

Ease up there Gumby.... hows the 41 putts going?

[idgolfguy]

Are you a big guy, or just very efficient with your club/ body?
With his rotation, Rubin has the potential to be very good. His transfer of energy into the ball from driver is very good.

He loads the club very efficiently. Not paid attention to his irons so can't comment there.

Flight will be impacted by hand position. Have you looked at what impact position they are at to result in the flight you currently have.

The type of irons also impact on p. your ball flight.

[Johnny Canuck]

Sorry, have I hit on a raw nerve that was previously discussed?It was a honest question, not intended to stir anyone. Let it go through to the wicket keeper if it will cause problems.Rubes swings faster than everyone, but doesn't outdrive them.

[davepuppies]

Rubes swings faster than everyone, but doesn't outdrive them.

Why?

Again, not sure if this is a piss take, as I didn't see the original posts, but if his smash factor is reasonable then if his swing speed is faster then with right launch and spin it should work out.

Anyway, I am happy to leave it here. Don't want to create a double up....

[KristianJ]

For Ducky's benefit, can we please ease our way back on topic. :) rubin has a swing thread where, if desired, this side discussion can continue.

[Ducky]

I have the pxi now in 6.5 which play a little stiffer to flex IMO, with the shaft band down.
I've used the PX 6.5 before (years ago) and didn't mind it, but haven't used the PXI. Apparently, the KBS C-Taper in X flex is equivalent to the PX 7.0, which is what had me concerned. I thought that the S+ flex might be a better option. However, I'm noticing — for some reason — that OEMs (such as Titleist) only offer R, S, or X flexes even if the irons are .355 taper tip.


... why not try installing one of the FST Pro shafts in the 7 iron and see how it goes compared to your current flight?
That's a good idea actually. It would reduce the resale value if I end up selling the Wishon 555M irons, but that's OK. I'll try to find somewhere in Australia that sells single KBS C-Taper shafts and compare the three different iron configurations (component cavity back w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold X100, Ping S58 w/ KBS C-Taper S+, and Wishon 555M w/ FST Pro 125 X).


Have you looked at what impact position they are at to result in the flight you currently have.
Here is the impact position from the first video in my swing thread:

http://i.imgur.com/sxfMzjC.jpg

Admittedly, there could be more forward shaft lean, but I don't think I'm flipping.


For Ducky's benefit, can we please ease our way back on topic. :)
It's all good!

[Johnny Canuck]

I've used the PX 6.5 before (years ago) and didn't mind it, but haven't used the PXI. Apparently, the KBS C-Taper in X flex is equivalent to the PX 7.0, which is what had me concerned. I thought that the S+ flex might be a better option. However, I'm noticing — for some reason — that OEMs (such as Titleist) only offer R, S, or X flexes even if the irons are .355 taper tip.


That's a good idea actually. It would reduce the resale value if I end up selling the Wishon 555M irons, but that's OK. I'll try to find somewhere in Australia that sells single KBS C-Taper shafts and compare the three different iron configurations (component cavity back w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold X100, Ping S58 w/ KBS C-Taper S+, and Wishon 555M w/ FST Pro 125 X).


Here is the impact position from the first video in my swing thread:

http://i.imgur.com/sxfMzjC.jpg

Admittedly, there could be more forward shaft lean, but I don't think I'm flipping.


It's all good!

I use CTaper X soft stepped. They are stiff, but not ridiculously so. I haven't found they reduced the ball flight height much at all.

[Puji]

C tapers! Droooolll!!!

[Ducky]

A bit of an update on this. I had a fitting session this afternoon with the local pro and was able to compare the True Temper Dynamic Gold X100 (.355) and the KBS C-Taper X (.355) through the Mizuno fitting cart. My swing speed was 94MPH with a 6-iron, so basically the same as mentioned in the original post. I can't comment on spin rates (as we didn't use Trackman), but I preferred the ball flight produced with the True Temper Dynamic Gold X100 (.355), which was noticeably lower and — appeared to be — more penetrating than the KBS C-Taper X (.355). Hopefully, matching the True Temper Dynamic Gold X100 (.355) with the Ping S58 will be a winner.

:)

[freddy a]

Dynamic Gold SL would have been worth a try.

[Ducky]

Dynamic Gold SL would have been worth a try.
Why?

[freddy a]

Tip stiff low launch shaft from my experience.

[virge666]

If you go for the Superlites.

Go X flex and softstep them. Or use a bit of lead on the heads.

[Ducky]

I ended up ordering some True Temper Dynamic Gold X200 (.355) shafts for reasonably cheap. From all reports the extra 2g of weight shouldn't make much of a difference (hopefully). The only concern is the swing weight at +1" length, might need to go for +0.5" instead?