Golf Club Liability

[Craig_Syd]

Hi Folks,

After some advice. Our club has recently advised of a Levy ($500) as they are in financial strife and are upping the fees as of Sept. As I don't see this fixing the issues and the likley hood of another Levy next year I have decided to move to another local club.

I emailed the manager last night indicating that I would not be paying the Levy and would resign my membership to the club thanking him for my time at the club which I thoroughly enjoyed.

The reply was basically "thanks, if you don't pay the debt will be sent to a collection agency".

Does this sound right? How can a golf club do that? What if they decided the levy was 20k? Would we just have to pay?

I have no intention of paying but don't really want a bad debt hanging around.....

I am sure there are people on here that have gone through this before and can offer some advice?

Cheers......

[Captain Nemo]

What club (Mona Vale)?
Maybe BPE can chime in?

[markTHEblake]

Craig, Sounds like your members voted to impose the levy as at a certain date. Thats is tough luck, it is too late to get out of it and the GM is right, you have a legal obligation to pay.
This will sound harsh but it is the truth, if you did not take an interest in you club and go to that SGM where this vote was held, and round up support to vote against the levy, that is your fault.

[Craig_Syd]

That's the thing the members never voted as far as I am aware. It was just implemented by the board. We were invited to an "information night" and this was informed.....

[markTHEblake]

it must then be within the constitution to do so, which is very unusual. The club would have explained that though.

Still means you got to pay it.

[davepuppies]

That sucks.......

[davepuppies]

What club (Mona Vale)?
Maybe BPE can chime in?

Is mona vale in strife Titleist?

[davepuppies]

Scrap my above comment, just saw his location was Mona Vale.

Could be Bayview, or Balgowlah.

I know Balgowlah was in plenty of financial strife and they imposed a levy. My mate chose not to pay, and left and joined Warringah.

[Captain Nemo]

Is mona vale in strife Titleist?

No idea, i was just taking a stab...
Pretty shit thing though, id be looking at a new club.

[timah!]

Steal all their sand buckets, then leave.

[Lobsta]

You're thinking too small Timah.

Steal all their sand and then leave.

[Craig_Syd]

It's Bayview..... I won't be paying and by the sound of it many many members will not. They will be in receivership in less than 12months is my guess.

[Craig_Syd]

Anyway, I am leaving the office now to go join Mona Vale.... have a great weekend. Good golfing!

[Daves]

Steal all their sand buckets, then leave.

Ha, we were having a chuckle about something similar at Gailes today. Perci noted the cage next to the 10th Tee for locking up sand buckets at night and said "not hard to see we are are in Ipswich shire here!"

[Captain Nemo]

Prob why Virge left?

[Captain Nemo]

Anyway, I am leaving the office now to go join Mona Vale.... have a great weekend. Good golfing!

Pretty sure thats what Virge did???

[Dotty]

Didn't they get millions from selling land on the corner for a retirement village?

[boingk]

I'm with the fellows above. Membership should not be a ticket allowing the board to rort money out of your pocket. The financial health of the club, is of importance to everyone and should be notified well in advance, preferably at a general meeting. I would also tell them to stick it, particularly if you can get membership elsewhere for between 500 and 1000 bucks.

Liability issues are an ongoing problem and generally crop up due to shortfalls of some kind, whether that be adequate legal advice, bordering, or even signage. My local uses fencing, tree borders and a legally binding no fault agreement for for parked vehicles on their perhiphery. Basically they've done their best and if you still want to leave your property within reach of balls then you alone are responsible for its condition.

May I enquire the nature of the liability?

- boingk

[davepuppies]

I left Bayview 12 months ago........

I could see the shit was coming.

Mona vale is a way better track anyway.

[davepuppies]

Wasn't it a 9 plus 9 levy for upgrading the layout?

[Craig_Syd]

Wasn't it a 9 plus 9 levy for upgrading the layout?No, it was just to cover the debt as the bank has told them no more line of credit....

[Captain Nemo]

Sounds like get out before they go bust?

[davepuppies]

Yep.....

I just got a email from bayview outlining there current strategy.

They want to try and push as much public and social golfers through the course to help recover their lost cash.

Kind of defeats the purpose of belonging to a private club huh?


Craig Mona Vale have a special where the joining fee is significantly reduced if you join before new financial year on pro rata.

Worked out to about a $400 joining fee.

[Craig_Syd]

Thanks Dave, all done... signed all the paperwork on the way home tonight. 4 of us left Bayview and signed up..... No joining fee, it's on their website. 2578 through till July 31 2014.

[davepuppies]

How is Monash going Croydo?

I heard they were in financial stress due to the course redesign?

[davepuppies]

I see both Mona Vale and Monash are offering no joining fee membership deals right now......

Everyone is fighting hard for the limited golfing dollars available I guess.

[davepuppies]

Seems like a good opportunity.

What are yearly subs at Monash for a 7 day?

[davepuppies]

That's a good idea to attract younger members, but still a shit load of money!

[xe1]

Couldn't possibly be any financial stress at Monash with a course redesign over the proposed timeframe (one hole in 365 days second hole to open end of this month, total time frame 2 years) over 150 members left last year and more to follow this year, the board and general manager know this AND IT IS NOW ZERO JOINING FEE to boost numbers before new financial year as the subs are July-June. Anyone joining will be up for $4700 subs a year with Redesign levy and house account fee - NO FREE RANGE BALLS NOW- add another $1000 for comp fees your over $5000 for the year before you hit a range ball. That's expensive golf for a once a week golfer in this current golfing climate. They should of done what cromer G.C. did one sub @$2900 and they would have retained the members that left and the "product" would not of been under valued -damage has been done. Work will stop soon.

[xe1]

Construction start Vs vote date problem with finances ect..... 365. All data with reference to dates has disappeared from master plan web site wonder why? First project managers post On master plan website states 2 years to completion.
$2 for25 range balls is good but if they were "free" unfortunately a figure was added into the subs to cover the cost of running the range but spending $80k on a couple of sheds is a problem then the introduction of paying for range balls without a members vote is!
If they finish it by October 2014 I will eat my hat.
One fee class would work at Monash as the 3,4,5 day plus veterans membership there are too many categories would be more balanced and these categories subsidized others 3 day is @ $1800 per year would you spend another $1000 for full access and the 6,7 day members get a@$1000 haircut to spend on the range a year

[xe1]

Wakehurst golf club has had an increase in green fees and visitor fees this half financial year up 8% So not all clubs are doing it tough just have to be competitive.

[dhills2]

$500... Not worth chasing. Just ignore it.

[mrbluu]

I actually don't pay full fees, they changed the fee structure under the age of 40 you get a discount. This year ill pay $3150 in subs, there is a course levy of $250, and hospitality of $385.

Full fees subs are $3950 plus the other charges.

and I keep thinking that $950 a year was a lot of money to go golfing......

[boingk]

$220 here in Tullky Park, Goulburn...

EDIT: And freak the other charges, include It in the membership or sod off. Why quote an incomplete membership price?

[xe1]

Over $500 they are able to add cost and interest to debt.......

[Dotty]

Why quote an incomplete membership price?
Bar Levy (or F&B or Hospitality) is quite common now. Basically, it is a debit account for the member to use over the next 12 months. It isn't lost money, unless you don't patronise the clubhouse for the next 12 months.

It entices players to stay for a drink, become part of the club and meet other members, rather than just a course user.
It also allows for easier payment of drinks/meals, and ultimately topping up the card for more spending. (I spent an extra $2000 over the bar in the 2012 fin. year, via card top-ups.)
Less cash on site (esp. over the weekend), making it safer for bar staff.

Works levies are usually a once-in-ten-year expense, for major alterations to the course, clubhouse, or repairs after a natural disaster. Unfortunately, it looks like some committees are using these annually to cover trading shortfall.

[xe1]

I actually don't pay full fees, they changed the fee structure under the age of 40 you get a discount. This year ill pay $3150 in subs, there is a course levy of $250, and hospitality of $385.

Full fees subs are $3950 plus the other charges.

That's the under 35 price Croydo. 36-40 $3550.00 Before house and levy fee of $585 so it is $4185.00 First year they have implemented a discount for age group 30-40 (in two CAT) due to people leaving once they turn 30 and the discount disappears. Full subs are $4585.00 including house and levy before you hit a range ball that was already incorporated into that price I added a lazy $115 for range balls per year to get $4700.00 ;-( play 1 x a week add another lazy $500 for green fees.If you are a once a week golfer thats over $100 per game and you haven't taken into account weather factor. Have a look at how much other clubs pay for subs like Royal Sydney or Avondale you might get a suprise. With the zero entrance we will get 3 bayview juniors joining with no entrance fee and it will equal one full paying member who leaves because of the entrance fee was abolished (limited time frame) and they will still go backwards with income coming into the club, but at least the time sheets will appear full. Monash is open to the public anyone can play at certain times, my guess is that it will host a open comp day weekly in the near future. Pretty insulting for people who paid full entrance fee of 10K.

[davepuppies]

That's the under 35 price Croydo. 36-40 $3550.00 Before house and levy fee of $585 so it is $4185.00 First year they have implemented a discount for age group 30-40 (in two CAT) due to people leaving once they turn 30 and the discount disappears. Full subs are $4585.00 including house and levy before you hit a range ball that was already incorporated into that price I added a lazy $115 for range balls per year to get $4700.00 ;-( play 1 x a week add another lazy $500 for green fees.If you are a once a week golfer thats over $100 per game and you haven't taken into account weather factor. Have a look at how much other clubs pay for subs like Royal Sydney or Avondale you might get a suprise. With the zero entrance we will get 3 bayview juniors joining with no entrance fee and it will equal one full paying member who leaves because of the entrance fee was abolished (limited time frame) and they will still go backwards with income coming into the club, but at least the time sheets will appear full. Monash is open to the public anyone can play at certain times, my guess is that it will host a open comp day weekly in the near future. Pretty insulting for people who paid full entrance fee of 10K.

I would be annoyed if I paid $10k joining fee too, but it looks like this is the future of golf in Australia.

Membership dollars will continue to get leaner, clubs will continue to struggle, and more golfers will move to a social or casual basis.

Golf will move to a survival of the fittest, and those clubs that can provide the most value will attract the members and survive.

[matty]

I spent an extra $2000 over the bar in the 2012 fin. year, via card top-ups.

Pisshead.:lol:

[simmsy]

Yep I'd just up and leave. They will not bring in collection ppl for that money. It is not worth it for them.

[PeteyD]

Umm I think the way collection works these days is something like they sell the debt to the agency and then the agency chases it. Say they have 200 @ $500, they might sell that to the agency for half price, then the agency chases the money for themselves. So it becomes worthwhile.

[Dotty]

Pisshead.:lol: I see myself more as a superhero ... Saving the club's P&L balance with the swipe of a membership card :)

[Hawkers2008]

$500... Not worth chasing. Just ignore it.

don't bet on it.

Debt collector works on commission

from club point of view 80 to 85 per cent of debt, is better than 100% of nothing.

Also I reckon not paying is poor form. When you join up you contract to pay any levies imposed.

[Johnny Canuck]

don't bet on it.

Debt collector works on commission

from club point of view 80 to 85 per cent of debt, is better than 100% of nothing.

Also I reckon not paying is poor form. When you join up you contract to pay any levies imposed.

So if your club turned around tomorrow and imposed a $10,000 levy, would you pay it?

[Hawkers2008]

So if your club turned around tomorrow and imposed a $10,000 levy, would you pay it?


I am not sure thats a realistic example. In that event I would not be wanting to pay it, I would requisition a special general meeting and marshall the numbers to have the decision overturned.

For a $500 levy I would probably pay it, but I might requisition a meeting.

I think its important to remember that members are co-owners of the club not merely somone paying some cash for playing rights, if you don't want this kind of exposure then I guess you should be a green fee player or some kind of non equity member.

[dhills2]

How exactly do debt collectors make the debt payable and then enforce it for less than $500? Not being smart, genuine question.

[Hawkers2008]

How exactly do debt collectors make the debt payable and then enforce it for less than $500? Not being smart, genuine question.

Pretty easy. These guys do lots of volume, if they do it all day everyday and clearly the margins I suggested are enough for them to make a quid.

The process will start with template letters but will quickly escalate to actual legal proceedings the $500 will then become $500 plus court fees and legal costs. The debt collection firms typically have people who know how to do all the court paper work (its lodged under a solicitors name) they are happy to cop the scale level of fees for legal costs which the debtor will eventually have to pay.

[meh]

don't bet on it.

Debt collector works on commission

from club point of view 80 to 85 per cent of debt, is better than 100% of nothing.

Also I reckon not paying is poor form. When you join up you contract to pay any levies imposed.

Easy for you to say, you aren't the one having to pay the money.

[markTHEblake]

I'm with the fellows above. Membership should not be a ticket allowing the board to rort money out of your pocket.

A levy is not a way the club rorts money out of the members. *All* members have a responsibilty for the financial position of the club, all assets and liabiities belong to the members. If the club needs to raise funds for anything then the members have to pay for it one way or another. [end reply]

*****
Too many golfers are car park members now and all they think of when they pay their membership is "what is in it for me", and when things like levy's come up many fail to see that the money is required for their own benefit. Sure its reasonable to object to the levy or its purpose but if flat out rejecting it on basis of the personal expense alone is pretty narrow minded.

If golfers dont want to pay levys then go join a privately owned golf club where a portion of your membership is profit to the owner, and no benefit to you.

[GuyIncognito]

agree with MTB, whilst i certainly wouldnt be happy with being hit with a levy over and above membership dues, it's something that one must consider when joining a club and is certainly not an unrealistic prospect to have occur over the lifetime of a membership.

If you like the club/course, cop it and move on; if you don't, consider it severance and move on.

(easy for me to say yes but I think that's prob the only way forward).

[Hawkers2008]

Easy for you to say, you aren't the one having to pay the money.

Well I have been in that situation and yes I was fed up, but I gritted my teeth paid the money, resigned my membership and joined another club.

Its no different to being a member of an owners corporation (body corporate / strata plan) and getting an unpleasant surprise when they discover/work out the sinking fund doesn't have enough money. You have to put up with the risks as well as enjoying the benefits of ownership. If you have the stomach for the risk you should not be an owner.

[meh]

Well I have been in that situation and yes I was fed up, but I gritted my teeth paid the money, resigned my membership and joined another club.

Its no different to being a member of an owners corporation (body corporate / strata plan) and getting an unpleasant surprise when they discover/work out the sinking fund doesn't have enough money. You have to put up with the risks as well as enjoying the benefits of ownership. If you have the stomach for the risk you should not be an owner.

I wouldn't be paying, not given what the OP has said.

[virge666]

What Blakey said. You own the club, but since everyone is doing it hard, the joining fee is what USE to stop you moving... Bayview are in the shit, your club is in the shit... That is just the way it is.

I did not leave because of the financial position of the club, I left because I was fed up with playing on a tricked up golf course.
Also keep in mind that the members strongly voted against letting more public on the course to their financial detriment... Which was bloody stupid.

The second bit was the continuing with the 9+9 course redesign when they over spent on the clubhouse.

Lastly, in 15kms, there are about 8 golf courses all are a better standard than Bayview. And THAT is a massive issue.

[Craig_Syd]

What Blakey said. You own the club, but since everyone is doing it hard, the joining fee is what USE to stop you moving... Bayview are in the shit, your club is in the shit... That is just the way it is.

I did not leave because of the financial position of the club, I left because I was fed up with playing on a tricked up golf course.
Also keep in mind that the members strongly voted against letting more public on the course to their financial detriment... Which was bloody stupid.

The second bit was the continuing with the 9+9 course redesign when they over spent on the clubhouse.

Lastly, in 15kms, there are about 8 golf courses all are a better standard than Bayview. And THAT is a massive issue.If the course was in great nick I would be more than happy to pay but it is not and there are other options around. From what I am hearing around the place something will give here, every second person that belongs to Bayview is indicating they are leaving....

[virge666]

If the course was in great nick I would be more than happy to pay but it is not and there are other options around. From what I am hearing around the place something will give here, every second person that belongs to Bayview is indicating they are leaving....

With most courses not having a joining fee, there is nothing to protect the golf club.

I am not sure what they can do . . . if it was me, I would be selling the land across the road. And use that cash to make a decent 9 hole golf course, driving range and golf center. Then they can bring down the yearly subs to something more in line with the condition of the course.

It hurts to say it - but leaving Bayview was one of the best things i did, the guys there are great, but it is just a pity that the product isn't.

I am at Mona Vale now... and love it, and it is the same price.

[rubin]

If the course was in great nick I would be more than happy to pay but it is not and there are other options around. From what I am hearing around the place something will give here, every second person that belongs to Bayview is indicating they are leaving....

From reading the OP and a small handful of posts, the only issues I can see are:
1) if the levy is retro-active or not. If it is a date in the future (say July 1), resign effective 30/6 - no worries, and don't stress on the payment.
2) If it is retro-active, then (like other have said) check the club constitution to see if the board can impose levies etc at a date of their choosing.

[Par]

There are at least 5 of us in my playing community leaving Bayview and going to another club as a result of this further $500 cost impost placed on the loyal members. We have been fleeced an extra $3 per competition recently as well, plus a previous levy for the supposed 9+9 course upgrade, which has now been abandoned. Fees are also increased for the September '13 annual renewal. The club can huff and puff all it wants about debt collectors but I will not be paying the levy. The vitriol generated by these actions will only serve to scare prospective members away. Aside from assurances and overly optimistic forecasts, there is no guarantee that the levies will not continue to be imposed. In the recent past all 5 day and 6 days members were forced into 7 day membership and we were assured at that stage this move would ensure future financial stability for the club. Well it did not happen.

[rubin]

i reckon you'll pay up once the collectors start knocking with a court order
or;
you don't get a loan due to being on the black list.

[PerryGroves]

Mmmm, doesn't sound good up there at Bayview. The refugees won't be coming my way, I expect to get levied for the rest of my days on top of Sydney's most expensive subs.

[boingk]

A levy is not a way the club rorts money out of the members. *All* members have a responsibilty for the financial position of the club, all assets and liabiities belong to the members. If the club needs to raise funds for anything then the members have to pay for it one way or another. [end reply]

*****
Too many golfers are car park members now and all they think of when they pay their membership is "what is in it for me", and when things like levy's come up many fail to see that the money is required for their own benefit. Sure its reasonable to object to the levy or its purpose but if flat out rejecting it on basis of the personal expense alone is pretty narrow minded.

If golfers dont want to pay levys then go join a privately owned golf club where a portion of your membership is profit to the owner, and no benefit to you.

I play at a volunteer run club - anything big that needs doing people lend their time. We keep the course in good nick ourselves. Carpark golfers don't exist in our vocabulary, or our club at least. Whats in it for us? A reasonably priced small town course with friendly members and decent facilities.

If I was a member of the above described club, ie failing management and facilities, I would not give them any more money and, furthermore, request a dossier outlining what they spent the collective revenue on so far to warrant an extra infusion.

- boingk

[virge666]

There are at least 5 of us in my playing community leaving Bayview and going to another club as a result of this further $500 cost impost placed on the loyal members. We have been fleeced an extra $3 per competition recently as well, plus a previous levy for the supposed 9+9 course upgrade, which has now been abandoned. Fees are also increased for the September '13 annual renewal. The club can huff and puff all it wants about debt collectors but I will not be paying the levy. The vitriol generated by these actions will only serve to scare prospective members away. Aside from assurances and overly optimistic forecasts, there is no guarantee that the levies will not continue to be imposed. In the recent past all 5 day and 6 days members were forced into 7 day membership and we were assured at that stage this move would ensure future financial stability for the club. Well it did not happen.

Mona, Cromer or Monash ?

[Par]

Mona Vale

[PerryGroves]

I am at Mona Vale now... and love it, and it is the same price.


Mona, Cromer or Monash ?


Mona Vale

Good luck with those Saturday time sheets Virge.

[grandmasterb]

My club is about to impose a "fee" as well due to debt and this after subs have increased, competition costs have risen but the prize money/pay outs haven't. I know there are still a lot of members that disagree with the mandatory bar fee that was imposed a few years back and I personally don't really agree with it either but at the end of the day it is "your money" that you are spending in the bar.

[Craig_Syd]

Good luck with those Saturday time sheets Virge.Myself and 4 others paid up at Mona Vale as of Saturday, another 3 went to Cromer and 2 to Monash. My dad's mechanic has been there for 21 years and he and his playing partners are just going to play social golf. So when I joined Bayview I don't remember ever being offered to read or given a copy of the constitution. I guess that I signed something saying I agree to all the terms and conditions. Played my first 9 holes at Mona this afternoon and the course is 100 times better. The greens are way better and my ball wasn't sitting in mud when I missed a green. I also heard that the Bayview Super may have had 200k cut from his budget and has/d to fire a few greens staff immediately so you can imagine it is only going to get worse.

[virge666]

Good luck with those Saturday time sheets Virge.

I have heard that from so many people... and it is a total crock of shite.

I usually get my name down on the Thursday for the Saturday game and there is always 5-8 spots available, or I can use the waiting list feature. I am yet to miss out on a game !!

[virge666]

Played my first 9 holes at Mona this afternoon and the course is 100 times better. The greens are way better and my ball wasn't sitting in mud when I missed a green.

The greens just blow me away at Mona Vale, I was at Terry Hills yesterday and our greens are just as good, albeit a lot smaller, than the greens there. And you should have seen them during the championships... Holy shit, they were SO fast, but totally playable. Not like the 4th, 11th and 17th green where you get a 10' putt with 15' of break.

The other bit you will notice is that the ball doesn't bounce on the greens either... it is glorious and then have about 3 times as many people on the course than Bayview does !!!!!

[TS]

I see myself more as a superhero ... Saving the club's P&L balance with the swipe of a membership card :)

I am following your lead as I spent couple hundreds on food & drink last month.

[Dotty]

I am following your lead as I spent couple hundreds on food & drink last month.Pisshead. :)

[Collis]

My club is about to impose a "fee" as well due to debt and this after subs have increased, competition costs have risen but the prize money/pay outs haven't. I know there are still a lot of members that disagree with the mandatory bar fee that was imposed a few years back and I personally don't really agree with it either but at the end of the day it is "your money" that you are spending in the bar. Is that Kingston or nwb? There should have been a meeting though to vote it in or out surely. If the club went bankrupt would the members have to pay the debts owing?

[Hawkers2008]

Is that Kingston or nwb? There should have been a meeting though to vote it in or out surely. If the club went bankrupt would the members have to pay the debts owing?

Most clubs have a company limited by guarantee structure so liability would be minimal.

If my club went tits up all voting members could be asked to contribute up to $10 each by the liquidator.

[grandmasterb]

Is that Kingston or nwb? There should have been a meeting though to vote it in or out surely. If the club went bankrupt would the members have to pay the debts owing?

KBGC mate and I believe there was a meeting held but it was just prior to when I rejoined a couple of months ago. I know $100-200 isn't going to break the bank but as it sits its costing me roughly $44 every week to play golf once every 4-5 weeks if I'm lucky so when I put it into perspective I reckon I won't renew my membership and just pay the "social round" fees for the occasional hit.

[Collis]

KBGC mate and I believe there was a meeting held but it was just prior to when I rejoined a couple of months ago. I know $100-200 isn't going to break the bank but as it sits its costing me roughly $44 every week to play golf once every 4-5 weeks if I'm lucky so when I put it into perspective I reckon I won't renew my membership and just pay the "social round" fees for the occasional hit. Yeah it hurts still though. I joined Claremont a while back 2 days after I joined I got $100 bill for water levy upgrade. No mention when joining. I'm looking at joining a metro ATM, not dire which one though.

[dhills2]

Hawkers, I used to work as a solicitor and had to handle some debt recovery work in my time. Getting the default judgment from the court is a piece of cake but enforcing the judgment can be a real hassle if the debtor knows anything about the process. Filing fees are close to $200 alone... not sure anyone would take the punt on outplaying that much to recover a small percentage of $500.

[davepuppies]

Hawkers, I used to work as a solicitor and had to handle some debt recovery work in my time. Getting the default judgment from the court is a piece of cake but enforcing the judgment can be a real hassle if the debtor knows anything about the process. Filing fees are close to $200 alone... not sure anyone would take the punt on outplaying that much to recover a small percentage of $500.

What are you doing these days Dhills?

[WBennett]

I am following your lead as I spent couple hundreds on food & drink last month.

I am almost scared at how much I have spent at the club so far this year. Average $60 a round on drink, food and gambling. oops....

[Hawkers2008]

Hawkers, I used to work as a solicitor and had to handle some debt recovery work in my time. Getting the default judgment from the court is a piece of cake but enforcing the judgment can be a real hassle if the debtor knows anything about the process. Filing fees are close to $200 alone... not sure anyone would take the punt on outplaying that much to recover a small percentage of $500.

Try these guys they seem to be pretty good no collect no fee commission rate from 10% to 35% plus GST but the club would get that back.

http://www.prushka.com.au
(http://www.prushka.com.au/)

Its not just about the cost either the club can't afford to let people off the hook because hardship cases aside if you let one off you have to let them all off. If people know the club is serious about collect they will be less inclined to try and get off paying it. If people know the club is soft they will take advantage ane will also tell their firends that the club is soft.

Its not like most of these people can't pay, they just don't want to. Hardships cases are going to be relatively rare.

[dhills2]

I can't be bothered looking but I doubt 'no fee' includes disbursements. Anyway, not trying to argue... just reckon that nobody would bother chasing down that kind of money. Though it shouldn't be about whether members are 'able' to pay... that's irrelevant.

Davepups - I'm working on contracts for a govt agency. Similar gig, better conditions :-)

[Craig_Syd]

Bayview updated us all today they won't be chasing the money from anyone that leaves as a result of the levy.... Common sense as imho if word got out they were chasing it they would be reducing their amount of prospective new members due to bad PR. The levy is due June 30, anyone who uses the member facilities after that date they will expect and chase payment. As a side note Mona seems heaps nicer after just a week, numerous members introducing themselves and much more atmosphere in the club. I can't tell you the difference in my putting after a few days on the practice green and one round......

[PerryGroves]

Craig, I get where you are going but you aint my guy

[Craig_Syd]

Craig, I get where you are going but you aint my guyEach to their own..... Not sure if you have played the course much but it is not worth it. I have no attachment to the club, they did a membership drive and were willing to take anybody in. I am not saying this lightly but after 1 week if Mona wanted 500 out of me to save the club I would be the first to pay. Anyway, next golfing chapter begins....

[NGIB]

Firstly gents I will not hide behind any online names here - I am Nigel Gibson, General Manager at Bayview Golf Club.

My concern with this blog is that there are numerous untruths written with in it. I would have hoped for something a little more professional but I guess that is why most don't back it up by saying exactly who they are.

I find it interesting that further detail wasn't mentioned in the blog as to the background relating to this levy. Nor were the various Member information nights run by the club with IPart and other various benchmarking details which has been provided to the Members over the last 3.5yrs. In addition to the above there has been no mention of the pushback from Members when steps were taken by the Board and Management to adjust the business model to ensure enough revenue was obtained from golfing activities. It is fairly likely some of those Members that complained about these changes are within this thread and beating their chest in this forum about leaving BGC.

Bayview has taken steps within this levy to not only cover the shortfall in this years funding but to also reduce the overall debt of the club. The financial modeling has provided for 12% non renewal of memberships at the end of the year which does not include the 10 new 7 day Members whom have joined in the last 2 weeks. This same conservative modeling and various initiatives will see the club debt free within three years and possibly in a stronger position than other local clubs whom are looking to finance new or refurbished clubhouses in the next few years. It is not BGC but another club mentioned in this thread (which some of you have joined) that have reduced staff and cut their course maintenance budget. It also must be said their Course Superintendent requested assistance from the BGC Superintendent on how to run his budget because he felt he wouldn't be able to maintain his course succesfully.

I can confirm no groundstaff have or are likely to be put off at BGC - we have 2 staff retiring in the next 6-8 months both of whom will be replaced. The club is not "going bust".

As a Member of a club you have a legal and a moral obligation to fund any shortfall it may have. Another comment made by Craig_Syd was to ask what would happen if the club put on a $20k levy? Craig if such a figure is put forward by a Board the Members do and most definitely would take the steps necessary to vote the Board out. The Articles are provided to each Member upon entry to the club and are on the clubs website. So to make comment you either haven't received them or aren't aware of them is wrong and further proof of your ignorance.

Nobody makes any money out of a club and therefore it should not be up to a voluntary Director to fund a shortfall. Why has this not been mentioned in the blogs?

Bayview has decied to allow those Members that do not wish to pay and do not "Play Golf at BGC" after the date the levy is due, to walk away. BGC will not attempt to recover these funds. However if a Member of BGC does not pay the debt and continues to utilise the facility (that his fellow Members have funded) then BGC will look to recover the debt from these people.

As I mentioned BGC will look to change its business model to utilise the timesheets more effectively and allow more social play (at certain times). Interestingly this will be far less than a Long Reef or a Mona Vale where some of you are joining. So why is it some are complaining that BGC might look to have 50% of the social play these clubs have?

In closing I would like to say there is no problems with healthy competition between local clubs and or robust discussion re aspects of a club however when you stoop to writing untruths, commenting on issues you have clearly no understanding of or conducted no research into, then I find this really poor form. If any of the BGC Members would like to discuss these or any other details please feel free to contact me. I would much prefer that than to read this type of information on a third party site.

[markTHEblake]

Nicely said Nigel
So to make comment you either haven't received them or aren't aware of them is wrong and further proof of your ignorance.The people who don't read the newsletters, noticeboards, or go to the meetings do complain the loudest that they are not told what is going on.

[meh]

ngib.Are you suggesting the member did not email you? Did you say that it would be referred to a debt collector?

[PeteyD]

Thank you for taking the time to clarify the situation Nigel.

[Craig_Syd]

Guys, the whole thing is obviously very sensitive. I was told via email that the debt would be sent to a collection agency, a week later the weekly bulletin said the debt would not be collected from anyone who decided to leave as of June 30. Something changed in the message that was being communicated. We the members who do not wish to be part of the Levy now forfeit 2 months membership. NGIB can say whatever he wants about the board, the management of the club and the financial plan but how Bayview is in this position so quickly after the redevelopment is just not right. I am not a developer or finance big wig but if you were going to go through such a major exercise how could it fail? Basic common sense says that deal should have secured Bayview's financial security for the mid to long term. I was not a member or maybe just in the door when the uproar about the plan to get more social players through the doors and was not part of any debate that took place re that topic. Anyway, I wish bayview the best, it has been part of the northern beaches for a very long time and I hope it survives. I accept there are many passionate people who have been part of it's history and do not even blink an eye at the levy, unfortunately the course did not grow on me enough to make me one of these people. NGIB, in regards to the green staff please accept my apologies. I was speaking to a superintendent from another northern beaches club and this was said to me.

[goughy]

Thanks for coming in and explaining Nigel.

Just one thing I would like to point out, is that this isn't a blog and it's not written as though it's from a news site or something. It's just a discussion forum. Hence any member can make comments about a topic, whether they are wrong or right. When wrong they often get corrected.

[davepuppies]

I have met Nigel, and he seems to be a nice guy, with a professional approach to things.

In saying that, as a ex Bayview member I have never seen it compare to the others condition wise......

Both mona vale and Bayview suffers when it rains, but Bayview so much more.

I hope Bayview survives its current financial position, and comes out debt free.