Gaming some classics

[adamsgolfer]

I have a set of 76-77 Wilson Staff blades.

These things are 1.5 almost 2 clubs shorter in length (actual club length not distance) than my standard Razr X Forged irons. The lofts had been 'modernised' by the person who owned these clubs before me but we are still talking about a 48deg PW. I hit 5 iron 150m with them as opposed to 165m with the Razr X. The are at D4 swing weight compared to the Razr X at D2 and the dead weight of each club is 25 grams more than the Razr X.

I love these things, they don't go far but they go straight. Mishits are punished by loss of distance but I'm usually still on the fairway. I know over the course of a comp round I will lose many strokes with them but I have fun playing them and want to bag them full time.

The only thing is being 37 years old they look worse for wear and I wanted to give them a freshen up. Ideally I would like to get the chrome stripped, the bag chatter and dings buffed out and then either leave the head raw or get it re-done in black oxide. I wish I was handy enough to do this stuff myself. Does anyone in Australia do refinishing work?

What else.... are the grooves on these things likely to be non conforming? (I don't care either way I'm just curious) and if I'm going to go to the trouble of refinishing them should I stick some new shafts in there rather than keep the 30+ year old shafts that are in there now?

If I change out shafts I might go with KBS Tour at maybe a half inch longer to what is in them now. I do not want to mess with swing weight and I definitely don't want to mess with overall weight too much - I think the weight of these clubs is what helps me control them so well.

I would rather spend $300-$400 freshening these up than $1000 on a set of new forged irons.

Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Daves]

I believe Golf Traders at Petersham do this sort of refurb. work.

[spanner039]

The Staffs are nice, but really there are a lot better modern irons that you could use (longer, straighter and more enjoyable) and pick up for the cost of refurbishing.

Try your namesake for a start.

Having said that would love to see how they went with a modern shaft.

[virge666]

Your Wilson blades are designed for a different ball. The reason you like them is that the ball doesn't spin nearly as much as - so you are getting less side spin. You are really going to struggle with mishits, as the distance control will go to shit.

You will find all this out by yourself... but thought I would throw it in there. Been there and done that, and I am a pretty good ball striker.

The lofts are cranked down for a reason - yes a bit of it is marketing - but it mainly due to launch. The weight distribution of a modern club launches higher to compensate for the ball not spinning like it did 15 years ago. The ball will just fall out of the sky when hit with these things..

so - enjoy the experiment... my money says you will be back in a modern set pretty quickly - the clubs are simply no where near as good as a modern set of like clubs.

My call is a set of mizuno from 3balls for $300-350. MP53 or MP63 if you want blade.

[Ferrins]

Good call virge.

Discloser: The above post my contain grammatical errors and for that I am truly sorry.

[adamsgolfer]

Your Wilson blades are designed for a different ball. The reason you like them is that the ball doesn't spin nearly as much as - so you are getting less side spin. You are really going to struggle with mishits, as the distance control will go to shit.

You will find all this out by yourself... but thought I would throw it in there. Been there and done that, and I am a pretty good ball striker.

The lofts are cranked down for a reason - yes a bit of it is marketing - but it mainly due to launch. The weight distribution of a modern club launches higher to compensate for the ball not spinning like it did 15 years ago. The ball will just fall out of the sky when hit with these things..

so - enjoy the experiment... my money says you will be back in a modern set pretty quickly - the clubs are simply no where near as good as a modern set of like clubs.

My call is a set of mizuno from 3balls for $300-350. MP53 or MP63 if you want blade.

Hey virge, I'd like to learn more about why these clubs don't work with a modern day ball. Are you saying the older balls spun more or less than modern day balls?

Why will the ball just fall out of the sky?

[virge666]

Hey virge, I'd like to learn more about why these clubs don't work with a modern day ball. Are you saying the older balls spun more or less than modern day balls?

Why will the ball just fall out of the sky?

Ummm - - Shit yeah.

Mate - in 1980 half the problem in golf was trying to keep the spin down. That is why we had 110gr steel shafts in drivers and all the good players had stupidly heavy shafts in their clubs. The ball spun its tits off. Videos of players spinning a 7 iron off the green were common.

All the iron were designed with high muscle backs to get the COG high to again - lower the spin with a fast speed.

The biggest move in golf was to reduce the spin rate of the ball. You can then launch it higher without it spinning too much. I can therefore put a lighter shaft in the head and swing faster... hence more distance.

Spin is what keeps the ball in the sky - it provides lift... all those dimples have a job to do. The trick of a clubfitter with Trackman is to match the launch angle to the ball speed to the spin rate to give optimum carry and decent angles.

New clubs know this - old clubs still think they are hitting balata high spin golf balls. Hence the reason old clubs don't work. They don't impart the right launch and spin on a modern golf ball... hence they fall out of the sky.

Another reason why using a stopwatch as a poor man launch monitor is a good call.

Get a mate to time the ball is in the air with your irons... The longer it is in the air . . . the better the club is for you.

[IanO]

Great brief description Virge

[Webster]

Adamsgolfer, can you post a picture of the Wilsons that you are talking about? Whilst Virge is correct in what he says (mostly), my recollection of the Staff irons from that era is that they were not a high COG blade. Are they these ones?

http://media.wilson.com/media/wilson/staff/images/history/vint_1976_v3_m56577569830565083.gif

[adamsgolfer]

Adamsgolfer, can you post a picture of the Wilsons that you are talking about? Whilst Virge is correct in what he says (mostly), my recollection of the Staff irons from that era is that they were not a high COG blade. Are they these ones?

http://media.wilson.com/media/wilson/staff/images/history/vint_1976_v3_m56577569830565083.gif

Yep they are the ones.

[adamsgolfer]

Ummm - - Shit yeah.

Mate - in 1980 half the problem in golf was trying to keep the spin down. That is why we had 110gr steel shafts in drivers and all the good players had stupidly heavy shafts in their clubs. The ball spun its tits off. Videos of players spinning a 7 iron off the green were common.

All the iron were designed with high muscle backs to get the COG high to again - lower the spin with a fast speed.

The biggest move in golf was to reduce the spin rate of the ball. You can then launch it higher without it spinning too much. I can therefore put a lighter shaft in the head and swing faster... hence more distance.

Spin is what keeps the ball in the sky - it provides lift... all those dimples have a job to do. The trick of a clubfitter with Trackman is to match the launch angle to the ball speed to the spin rate to give optimum carry and decent angles.

New clubs know this - old clubs still think they are hitting balata high spin golf balls. Hence the reason old clubs don't work. They don't impart the right launch and spin on a modern golf ball... hence they fall out of the sky.

Another reason why using a stopwatch as a poor man launch monitor is a good call.

Get a mate to time the ball is in the air with your irons... The longer it is in the air . . . the better the club is for you.

So my callway razr x forged aren't great for me either then coz I don't think the ball is in the air noticeably longer than the Staffs....

[Vice MC]

very preeety

[virge666]

Adamsgolfer, can you post a picture of the Wilsons that you are talking about? Whilst Virge is correct in what he says (mostly), my recollection of the Staff irons from that era is that they were not a high COG blade. Are they these ones?

http://media.wilson.com/media/wilson/staff/images/history/vint_1976_v3_m56577569830565083.gif

Think about that for a tick...

look at the height of the blade... the weight distribution... the notch in the hosel.

Nothing about that clubhead says hit the ball high... it say digger.

Hit down and trap the ball for a low launch.

[Webster]

Virge, they are a typical blade. Same as say a Titleist 695mb.

If you were talking about a Tommy Armour 985 or Cobra Norman blade with the weight concentrated around the topline then I agree with you.

With modern lofts, shafts and shaft lengths there's no reason why a decent player can't hit them the same as current blades.

[virge666]

So my callway razr x forged aren't great for me either then coz I don't think the ball is in the air noticeably longer than the Staffs....

You said yourself the 5 iron was 15 meters shorter... Hence the RAZR X are in the air for 15m longer...

Dude, not here to change your mind - you can do whatever you want. Just thought I would give you a run down why and for you to have a second thought about investing in cleaning them up.

I play off 2, I have been a clubfitter for over a decade. I grew up in a golf mad family with 3 tour players in my family. Seve use to stay with us when he was out here playing. I have seen a lot of golf equipment over the years and have tried what you are doing. I played MP33 for the best part of 3 years, and these is a much better blade than the Wilson ... and I still moved to a newer blade because the spin rate on the MP33 was just too low. You get 8 irons that go 150 out of the rough and if you get it fat - you are lucky to hit it 110m. I cannot play to my handicap with that kind of range difference.

So - please go and try it out... but save your cash on the refurb.

Enjoy

[virge666]

Virge, they are a typical blade. Same as say a Titleist 695mb.

If you were talking about a Tommy Armour 985 or Cobra Norman blade with the weight concentrated around the topline then I agree with you.

With modern lofts, shafts and shaft lengths there's no reason why a decent player can't hit them the same as current blades.

For 1976 - yeah.

But - they are a longer (length) and shorter (height) blade with a very narrow hosel... The sole is very thin and there is little weighting in it to launch the ball.

The muscle is much thinner, high and all behind the ball and in the toe. There is no offset at all, and it is probably 25-30 lighter than a modern blade.

There is a MASSIVE difference.


23350

Look at the weight distribution on the 695, with the curve in the MB, The weight is under the ball, not behind it. The sole is a bitt thinner, but it is still shorter in length and a much taller blade to hit.

23351

[Webster]

You are splitting hairs and clutching at straws now Virge.

[olddogmike]

I have got a Wilson Staff one iron blade you can have for free if it's any good for you to go with that set.

[virge666]

You are splitting hairs and clutching at straws now Virge.

You're right mate. They are practically the same club. My bad.

[Webster]

Having trouble understanding what we are talking about here old dog mike?

[Webster]

You're right mate. They are practically the same club. My bad.

Cheers Virge.

[virge666]

Cheers Virge.

No worries mate, been placating numpties for years.

[Webster]

Me too, it's a real struggle sometimes.

[olddogmike]

Having trouble understanding what we are talking about here old dog mike?
Adamsgolfer has stated that he has a set of Wilson staff blades that he wants to restore, I was simply offering him a one iron for the set if he wants it.2335223353

[razaar]

I have a set of earlier Wilson blades (1965) which are more of a muscle back. They do have the same hosel as the '76 model, which is 1/2" longer than the hosel in the Cally irons. I may be wrong, but it has been my understanding that a longer hosel influences the COG. I have always used the string and plumb bob method to determine the clubface COG and whether it is high or low. If the string intersects the centre of the top line than the COG is high; if it intersects the centre of the leading edge the COG is low. The same applies to woods with a hosel and those without a hosel. A club with a low COG should create more spin because the ball slides up the face more so than a club with a higher COG. Which is what Virge is saying. The ball being longer off the face is influenced more by the quality of the strike - how hard it is hit and the length of contact.

[Ashes]

Adamsgolfer has stated that he has a set of Wilson staff blades that he wants to restore, I was simply offering him a one iron for the set if he wants it.2335223353

Heart of gold.

[adamsgolfer]

You said yourself the 5 iron was 15 meters shorter... Hence the RAZR X are in the air for 15m longer...

Dude, not here to change your mind - you can do whatever you want. Just thought I would give you a run down why and for you to have a second thought about investing in cleaning them up.

I play off 2, I have been a clubfitter for over a decade. I grew up in a golf mad family with 3 tour players in my family. Seve use to stay with us when he was out here playing. I have seen a lot of golf equipment over the years and have tried what you are doing. I played MP33 for the best part of 3 years, and these is a much better blade than the Wilson ... and I still moved to a newer blade because the spin rate on the MP33 was just too low. You get 8 irons that go 150 out of the rough and if you get it fat - you are lucky to hit it 110m. I cannot play to my handicap with that kind of range difference.

So - please go and try it out... but save your cash on the refurb.

Enjoy

I appreciate your advice.. don't get me wrong.. I just wanted to learn more about the ball, club fitting etc. This stuff interests me.

[virge666]

I appreciate your advice.. don't get me wrong.. I just wanted to learn more about the ball, club fitting etc. This stuff interests me.

All good mate. Hope it all works out for you and the handicap comes down.

[Dotty]

Virge, I suppose the same advice goes for restoring a 1976 Alfa Romeo GTV. ;)

[Captain Nemo]

You said yourself the 5 iron was 15 meters shorter... Hence the RAZR X are in the air for 15m longer...

Dude, not here to change your mind - you can do whatever you want. Just thought I would give you a run down why and for you to have a second thought about investing in cleaning them up.

I play off 2, I have been a clubfitter for over a decade. I grew up in a golf mad family with 3 tour players in my family. Seve use to stay with us when he was out here playing. I have seen a lot of golf equipment over the years and have tried what you are doing. I played MP33 for the best part of 3 years, and these is a much better blade than the Wilson ... and I still moved to a newer blade because the spin rate on the MP33 was just too low. You get 8 irons that go 150 out of the rough and if you get it fat - you are lucky to hit it 110m. I cannot play to my handicap with that kind of range difference.

So - please go and try it out... but save your cash on the refurb.

Enjoy

He may just want to bring them back to all their previous glory....go for it I say!

[virge666]

Virge, I suppose the same advice goes for restoring a 1976 Alfa Romeo GTV. ;)

You and I both know it is impossible to restore an Alfa due to the amount of rust.

But I may contemplate the 2000GT

[virge666]

He may just want to bring them back to all their previous glory....go for it I say!

Give them 1/2 an hour in CLR Clear solution, the polish them up with a sanding block.

Done.

[Captain Nemo]

Give them 1/2 an hour in CLR Clear solution, the polish them up with a sanding block.

Done.

On that topic, best way to clean my Ping ISI Nickels up?
Was thinking of giving them to the boys @ Ping....?

[Webster]

Coke bath Titleist. Give them a good scrub with a soft scourer first and get all the dirt out of the grooves.

[Captain Nemo]

Coke bath Titleist. Give them a good scrub with a soft scourer first and get all the dirt out of the grooves.

Sweet, i was thinking the CLR Method, but that sounds way safer, plus id imagine the CLR would have stripped out the paint???
Thats about the nicest thing you've siad to me in a long time, you feeling ok today?:wink:

[Ferrins]

What about these irons of mine virge are these drop put of the sky jobbies. The Status MKIII becomes the world's first ever heel-toe peripheral weighted iron design

[Webster]

Thats about the nicest thing you've siad to me in a long time, you feeling ok today?:wink:

Thats because you haven't done anything stupid today (yet)

[Captain Nemo]

Thats because you haven't done anything stupid today (yet)
Noted.
Give me till 1/2 time in the footy tonight after 4 stubbies.....:D

[Ferrins]

[QUOTE=titleist;936459]Sweet, Pic

[Captain Nemo]

[QUOTE=titleist;936459]Sweet, Pic
Christ!
:smt107
Post a pic at address Ferret...

[Ferrins]

Can't post a pic without a quote. Are we sweet!

[Ferrins]

I'll only ride you this once, promise.

[markTHEblake]

What about these irons of mine virge are these drop put of the sky jobbies. The Status MKIII becomes the world's first ever heel-toe peripheral weighted iron designThey are early or mid 70's irons, I would have thought that Ping beat PGF to that innovation?

[razaar]

[QUOTE=titleist;936459]Sweet, Pic
Thin top line, heel / toe weighted: What's not to like. The plastic inserts in the toe kept falling out of my set. It made the set look pretty shabby with the toe inserts missing.

[Captain Nemo]

Coke bath Titleist. Give them a good scrub with a soft scourer first and get all the dirt out of the grooves.

Ok, serious question Jack.
Any old Coke?
Hate to waste normal Coke, can I use the pissy Diet or Coke Zero that my missus drinks?
Will they give the same effect?

[golf2013]

Ok, serious question Jack.
Any old Coke?
Hate to waste normal Coke, can I use the pissy Diet or Coke Zero that my missus drinks?
Will they give the same effect?
I am pretty sure it has the be the real coke. On the be cu ping it brings them up a treat.

[Lagerlover]

I've got some cans of Tab if you want them L,

The clubs looked fantastic, but it bent a couple of them.

[Webster]

Ok, serious question Jack.
Any old Coke?
Hate to waste normal Coke, can I use the pissy Diet or Coke Zero that my missus drinks?
Will they give the same effect?

Any cola will do. But as you won $700 on the punt on Sat you can afford to not be a complete tightarse and buy a 3 litre bottle of the real stuff for $4.

[Captain Nemo]

Any cola will do. But as you won $700 on the punt on Sat you can afford to not be a complete tightarse and buy a 3 litre bottle of the real stuff for $4.

Your right, I'll go the "real deal" nothing but the best for the Pings, ta.
L.L, bring the tinnies of Tab to the champs, well top them up with Makers Mark or the like....

[Captain Nemo]

Jack, gave them a quick bath in CLR and a light scrub.
Came up pretty good.
Would Coke bring them up any better?

[virge666]

Coke is good for all kinds of tarnish and rust.